alsancle Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 hours ago, nat said: You could write what I know on your thumbnail with room left over but I do know that no/bad condenser = pitiful spark at best. Hovever wrong it is, I've used small engine condensers on auto engines and vise versa to get the #&*@! running or verify the source of trouble. I didn't know how too much or too little capacitance effected the contact surfaces. This thread has some good information in it. I was told that "condenser" indicated a DC circuit and "capacitor" indicated an AC circuit. My experience on our 1940 180 Packard was that if I disconnected the condenser the car would not start. Reconnected the condenser the car would start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 I believe the condenser also allows the primary field of the coil to sweep the secondary field at a faster rate which then allows the coil to put out 12-14K volts. If you slow down the rate of sweep , the coil has less of a output and does not make enough KV volts to spark the plug. It is my understanding the engine will not start if the condenser is removed. Am I wrong? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee H Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, DFeeney said: I believe the condenser also allows the primary field of the coil to sweep the secondary field at a faster rate which then allows the coil to put out 12-14K volts. If you slow down the rate of sweep , the coil has less of an output and does not make enough KV volts to spark the plug. It is my understanding the engine will not start if the condenser is removed. Am I wrong? Good question. The only reason I doubt a condensers necessity in creating a higher voltage secondary output is that I seem to get a great high voltage secondary with my Pertronix point-replacement module, and I don’t believe a capacitor is used on the primary side to shape the waveform. If it is, it would be very small, considering the capacity and voltage requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 It's inside the Pertronix, or something is. You just don't get to change it separately if it fails. A Pertronix grounds, or more accurately completes the circuit back to the spark plug threads, by being connected to the breaker plate in the same way the points and condenser were connected to the breaker plate. If there wasn't a something there like a capacitor to complete the circuit when the coil fires, thousands of volts would blow the poor little Pertronix to smithereens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nat Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 hours ago, alsancle said: My experience on our 1940 180 Packard was that if I disconnected the condenser the car would not start. Reconnected the condenser the car would start. My experience as well. The only exception being when I rewired an early 60's Ford truck without knowing that the primary side of the coil used resistor wire instead of a ballast resistor. With a tow, it managed to keep turning but didn't have enough power to move the truck. With a new condenser it would run for a few minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nat Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 20 minutes ago, nat said: With a new condenser it would run for a few minutes. And the points would burn to a crisp. Points will wear/burn with use but if and when it's severe or happens quickly, the condenser is the likely culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Interesting thread, and very technical……….I have only experienced two bad condensers in fifty years and countless miles. One car had 103 year old originals in it.(1914 Caddy). I have had at least twenty coil failures over time. Seems today lots of the old units that were fine for decades are giving up the ghost. Had a coil failure last week on the 851 SC speedster. Happened right after the float sank. It was a rough month driving the Auburn. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 17 minutes ago, edinmass said: Interesting thread, and very technical……….I have only experienced two bad condensers in fifty years and countless miles. One car had 103 year old originals in it.(1914 Caddy). I have had at least twenty coil failures over time. Seems today lots of the old units that were fine for decades are giving up the ghost. Had a coil failure last week on the 851 SC speedster. Happened right after the float sank. It was a rough month driving the Auburn. I suspect most of your condensers have been old ones. The old ones rarely seem to fail. The modern replacement ones seem more likely to be junk. It is common to think that replacing the condenser whenever you install new points is a good idea.... Maybe it once was, but now I tend to leave the old ones alone as long as they work. 9 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodge28 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 If my car breaks down first I will look for is gas. Next step is to check for fire at the contacts. If no fire I will go for the ignition coil. If the condenser is shot the ground wire from the plate to the distributor body will burn in a flash . I am subject to correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 13 minutes ago, dodge28 said: If the condenser is shot the ground wire from the plate to the distributor body will burn in a flash . Interesting. Not saying it's not true, but I've never heard that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFitz Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 17 hours ago, MCHinson said: I suspect most of your condensers have been old ones. The old ones rarely seem to fail. The modern replacement ones seem more likely to be junk. It is common to think that replacing the condenser whenever you install new points is a good idea.... Maybe it once was, but now I tend to leave the old ones alone as long as they work. Agreed !!!! For about 20 years now the quality of new - even national name brand - has been so iffy that I buy condensers two and three at a time to save running back to the store in the middle of a job to get one that works. It's sad but the new ones have a too-high rate of either early failure, or don't work right out of the box. I also tell my customers to keep a couple of spare condensers in the car and the tools to change them. Paul 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Look what a friend just gave me. I'm gonna clean it up and give it a try. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Interesting tester. It’s not really an Eisemann, it’s a Jack & Hxxxxxxx with an Eisemann label attached. I can say with certainty that Eisemann automotive ignition components can be difficult at best……..and terrible at worst. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 24 minutes ago, edinmass said: Interesting tester. It’s not really an Eisemann, it’s a Jack & Hxxxxxxx with an Eisemann label attached. I can say with certainty that Eisemann automotive ignition components can be difficult at best……..and terrible at worst. It was Ted Billings most likely bought in the 50s. Has been in the shop for over 60 years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) On 1/3/2024 at 1:19 PM, dodge28 said: If the condenser is shot the ground wire from the plate to the distributor body will burn in a flash Shorted condenser is same as points closed, so unless you keep the key on for a long time, no smoke, but the points will get hot after a while (key on and points closed) and that's not good either. Edited January 6 by Frank DuVal (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) That wire from the breaker plate to the case really shouldn't burn unless it was already broken and only had only a strand or two left. I've seen a lot of them barely hanging on. Failure of the wire is a super common problem. It is the "ground" so all the current to charge the coil goes through it. It's a special wire on most cars, because every time the breaker plate moves with the vacuum advance, that wire bends. Like, every time you step on the throttle it bends. The wire needs to take that bending eleventy ziillion times without breaking. An ordinary copper wire could only take a few cycles. Most of the ones I have looked at closely are mixed extra fine strands of copper and spring steel. That all pretty much applies to the points wire too, or at least the part of it that is inside the distributor. Edited January 6 by Bloo (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 "Test Prod" wire is very fine and nicely insulated with flexible insulation instead of the typical plastic style that is stiff. But, largest size is 18 AWG. I do have some 17 AWG from a foreign source, but green does not go well on most cars!🤣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 On 1/2/2024 at 3:09 PM, Frank DuVal said: Interesting, but no. We call those plates that rotate in a radio "tuning condenser". They tune AC aka RF signals. Also hear automotive people use condenser (and that is an AC circuit, as it is in the primary of a transformer [the coil]) and electronics people use capacitor, then there is that tuning condenser term again! OK, let's just call them the original term, Leyden Jar. 🤣 Leyden Jar... Sounds like a Star Wars Character. 😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 On 1/2/2024 at 3:46 PM, MCHinson said: I will let Bloo or someone else with more technical training explain why, but... No, You are wrong. The condenser is the cheapest, easiest to change and most likely cause for a failure in the ignition circuit. Personal experience tells me that if it quits firing, try changing the condenser and you have a good chance of having fixed the problem. I once did a tune up on a 1937 Buick and it would not run. I removed the "new out of the package" imported condenser and reinstalled the old condensor and the car would run again. Another aftermarket POS part. They're nickel and diming us to death with defective none returnable parts. I've seen this more than once. I recently replaced the distributor pick up coil in the 1990 Suburban. It lasted about 1 month and it started to run like crap coming home from a hard day and it quit right in my yard. I let it sit for a few weeks because I just did not want to deal with it. About a week ago I pulled out the distributor and once again replaced the pick up coil. Now it runs like it should once again. The first one worked for 30 some years. The second one was mostly crap right out of the box. We will see how the third one goes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) There is a common and early ignition system that does not use a condenser. It is the low tension type. The coil is a primary type winding only with a soft iron core. The points are inside the combustion chamber. This is called an ignitor and commonly used on early stationary engines. Even after well over 100 years many still work and run like they did when they were new. Downfall of the igniter is that they needed to be taken apart and have the carbon and deposits cleaned off of them often. When the points wear out they are a lot harder to replace than a spark plug and a set of automotive points and condenser. Edited January 6 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 (edited) Thanks for all this information. I'm going to amend my original question. Does anyone on this forum know a easy to test one??? I have several old condensers for my V8 Cars, but only one did I write BAD on with a flair. The others were flea market and ebay purchases, which I have no idea about except to think the reason they're no longer in someone elses V8 is, that they are bad. If I can find a analog ohm meter, I'll try Nat's suggestion on 12/31/23. Makes me think I'm saving a bunch of bad condensers. Edited January 6 by Paul Dobbin (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 5 hours ago, Paul Dobbin said: Thanks for all this information. I'm going to amend my original question. Does anyone on this forum know a easy to test one??? No. There is no easy way to test one. Well, not outside of a dedicated and very old test fixture few of us own. The reasons why are complicated. This post will probably be long. Sorry about that. A traditional "condenser" for a car is a Paper Capacitor. Like anything, there are exceptions, but the little silver cans we are mostly talking about in this thread were traditionally Paper Capacitors. Paper Capacitors were used in radios too, and have a known unavoidable failure mode. Around 1929-1930, so I'm told, there was a tariff placed on the Japanese paper used in Paper Capacitors. At the time, these were huge capacitors used for power supply filtering in the recently popular radios designed for house power instead of batteries. The Japanese paper became expensive at about the same time as the depression was underway, and electrolytic capacitors, an unrelated technology, were introduced for use as power supply filters replacing paper. This made possible small cheap radios at a time when you probably couldn't really sell big expensive radios anymore. Small capacitors for the rest of the radio (not the power supply) needed to be inexpensive, and paper was the technology to do that, but the price of appropriate Japanese paper was through the roof. A US made substitute paper was found. Acid was used in the process. The acid remains in the paper and rots it over time. Every paper capacitor made from about 1930 on, and not just in the US, is destined to fail. The paper I am talking about is so thin you can see through it. It looks like plastic. A Paper Capacitor is just 2 pieces of foil with a piece of this thin clear paper in-between. The whole mess is rolled up in such a way that the pieces of foil do not touch. One lead hooks to one plate, and the other hooks to the other lead, or, in the case of an automotive condenser, the can. By the late 50s electronics had mostly abandoned Paper Capacitors due to reliability issues, replacing them first with ceramic capacitors, which are not perfect, and later "film" (plastic) of various types. "Film" is the default technology to replace Paper Capacitors today. Reliability is much higher. The last common Paper Capacitors in consumer electronics were mains filters in the 80s, intended to keep electrical noise on the power line contained. These "Rifa" capacitors are infamous for exploding and or catching on fire in recent years. Why? Because they are connected right to the power cord. Once they leak enough current between the plates.. BANG! Now this "leakage" between the plates sounds just like resistance doesn't it? As if there were a resistor connected in parallel with the capacitor? Why do we call it "leakage"? If it's resistance, why don't we just call it that and check it with an ohmmeter or ohms function of a DMM? The answer is because it is not constant. It is voltage dependent. The higher the voltage goes, the worse the leakage gets. As the voltage goes up, the resistance goes down. Pure resistance does not do that. Since ohmmeters and DMMs check resistance using a low voltage, like maybe 9 volts. A Paper Capacitor can check perfectly fine at 9 volts and still be really, really bad. An ohmmeter or DMM ohms function in no way tells you what happens at a few hundred volts. If a capacitor fails an ohmmeter test it is a bad capacitor for sure, but with Paper Capacitors, you will get mostly false positives with an ohmmeter or DMM. In electronics repair, if you are going to work on anything remotely old, and want to be able to test any capacitors you might run into, you need 3 kinds of capacitor testers. They are: 1) ESR meter. You have probably heard of these. ESR is effective series resistance. It is a controversial property that may or may not exist depending on who you ask. The tool itself is extremely useful for troubleshooting circuit boards full of small electrolytic capacitors, as it indicates the most common failure on those. It is not useful for automotive "condensers" at all, so that is all I am going to say about it. 2) A Digital Capacitance Meter or the capacitance function of a DMM. This will read the capacitance value of the capacitor, typically in microfarads or some other small portions of Farads. If these see leakage they usually just read too high. They may not see leakage at all because they are a low voltage device. These are useful to read actual capacitance, but only on a capacitor that you know is not leaky, and they cannot test for that. That's why you need... 3) A Capacitance Bridge. You probably can't buy this new. In the heyday of Paper Capacitors from the 1930s to the 1960s, these were in many radio/tv shops. These check for leakage at high voltage. The also check for capacitance with a method that is not fooled into reading high by leakage. Examples of top tier ones are the Sprague Tel-Ohmike TO-5, the Heathkit IT-28 and the Eico 950B. Prices are through the roof for these and a few other similar popular models, supply and demand you know, but Capacitance Bridges were made in a zillion brands and models from the late 30s through 1970 or so. There could be some bargains out there. They probably need restoration. These are the right tool for Paper Capacitors, because they test for the most common failure, leakage. You first test for leakage, which is typically read on a meter, possibly as resistance, possibly as current. Once you have established that the leakage is sufficiently low, you check capacitance by moving the dial and watching for a magic eye tube to close. When it does, you read the capacitance from the dial. If the Capacitance Bridge is out of calibration, and it well might be because it is over 40 years old, then you can check with a digital capacitance meter to get the exact capacitance value, having already checked for leakage with the Capacitance Bridge. Exact values may matter. If the capacitance is too far off, metal will transfer on the points from one side to the other, ruining them. So as you can see, you really need the last two testers to do any meaningful testing on automotive "condensers" aka capacitors. Additionally, you need to know the correct capacitance value for the car, and that may not be easy to find. A lot of cars use around 0.22 microfarads, but there is no guarantee of that and you might burn up a few sets of points figuring it out. New production "condensers" are most likely Film Capacitors, as that is the superior technology that has replaced paper. I don't think anyone makes Paper Capacitors anymore, at least not in volume. The fact that new "condensers" are not holding up, and are doing worse than decades old NOS Paper Capacitors that will definitely fail due to the acid in the paper illustrates just how bad current production ignition parts are. There are plenty of threads about it here on the forum. It should be nearly impossible for these new "condensers" to fail, and yet they do fail, and early. Edited January 7 by Bloo (see edit history) 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 26 minutes ago, Bloo said: No. There is no easy way to test one. Well, not outside of a dedicated and very old test fixture few of us own. The reasons why are complicated. This post will probably be long. Sorry about that. A traditional "condenser" for a car is a Paper Capacitor. Like anything, there are exceptions, but the little silver cans we are mostly talking about in this thread were traditionally Paper Capacitors. Paper Capacitors were used in radios too, and have a known unavoidable failure mode. Around 1929-1930, so I'm told, there was a tariff placed on the Japanese paper used in Paper Capacitors. At the time, these were huge capacitors used for power supply filtering in the recently popular radios designed for house power instead of batteries. The Japanese paper became expensive at about the same time as the depression was underway, and electrolytic capacitors, an unrelateed technology, were introduced for use as main power supply filters replacing paper. This made possible small cheap radios at a time when you probably couldn't really sell big expensive radios anymore. Small capacitors for the rest of the radio (not the power supply) needed to be inexpensive, and paper was the technology to do that, but the price of appropriate Japanese paper was through the roof. A US made substitute was found. Acid was used in the process. The acid remains in the paper and rots it over time. Every paper capacitor made from about 1930 on, and not just in the US, is destined to fail. The paper I am talking about is so thin you can see through it. It looks like plastic. A Paper Capacitor is just 2 pieces of foil with a piece of this thin clear paper in-between. The whole mess is rolled up in such a way that the pieces of foil do not touch. One lead hooks to one plate, and the other hooks to the other lead, or, in the case of an automotive condenser, the can. By the late 50s electronics had mostly abandoned Paper Capacitors due to reliability issues, replacing them first with ceramic capacitors, which are not perfect, and later "film" (plastic) of various types. "Film" is the default technology to replace Paper Capacitors today. Reliability is much higher. <still typing, hang on.....> Thanks Bloo, As I said initially, I had a friend who tested them with a lawn mower engine. I didn't pay close enough attention to replicate his testing procedure. Even though I did 2 Great Races with him and his mechanical abilities. He was an old time mechanic un the tool rental business and I thought could fix anything. Turned out he couldn't fix cancer. Monday I'll try the old timers I know , looking for aa condenser testing machine. I'm trying to keep my 1934 Fords as stick as possible and hate to have to jury rig them just to drive them. I have 4 if them as spares, but have no idea if they're any good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Good write up Bloo, but... I disagree with: 4 hours ago, Bloo said: replacing them first with ceramic capacitors, which are not perfect, They are perfect for many many applications. And they hardly ever fail. When you see one in the typical tube radio, you do not change them until you know it is bad, maybe less than 0.1% of the time, unlike electrolytics and paper that are typically replaced without testing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 53 minutes ago, Frank DuVal said: Good write up Bloo, but... I disagree with: They are perfect for many many applications. And they hardly ever fail. When you see one in the typical tube radio, you do not change them until you know it is bad, maybe less than 0.1% of the time, unlike electrolytics and paper that are typically replaced without testing. I agree with all of that. They are high reliability parts, and there are applications where they perform better than film. By "not ideal" I was more thinking that they are further away from ideal capacitors than a lot of film capacitors, like for instance capacitance changes with applied voltage, and may drift quite a bit with temperature, etc. depending on what dielectric they are made with. That is splitting hairs for the mid 50s when they seem to have appeared. They were so much better the Paper Capacitors that came before it is hard to even draw a comparison. In their favor, as an ignition capacitor, high voltage ratings are readily available, as is C0G dielectric with almost no drift. C0G and high voltage makes for a huge disc though, but I am not sure if any of that matters. I suspect none of it does. Maybe the disc could be smaller. It's probably a little harder to package as a replacement than a film capacitor that is naturally the same cylindrical shape as a paper one and smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldford Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 "No. There is no easy way to test one. Well, not outside of a dedicated and very old test fixture few of us own. The reasons why are complicated. This post will probably be long. Sorry about that. " That handy meter from Amazon is about as easy as it gets. Let's not get complicated here. If you can use an ohm meter, you can use this one. $26 is as cheap as it gets... Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradsan Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Curious if anyone has tried replacing the inferior modern paper condensers that are causing the problems with a modern capacitor to just eliminate the problem completely ? 0.22 MFD 600V mylar or polycarbonate capacitor will apparently do the trick. I was trying to see if I could fit a modern one into and old condenser shell in case the judges ever pulled the distributor cap off . Not too much of a problem given the cars are a longer way from driving to the field! Here is a post from 2015. I had more questions for KCLDODGE but, unfortunately, I do not think he is with us any longer. In my comment at the end , I think i was trying to ask if a 250V rated capacitor would work as I think I could almost get one of those in the old shell. He seemed to be saying that the 600v was plenty . I'm presuming the condenser doesn't really care if it is a 6V or 12V system Brad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) 5 hours ago, bradsan said: Curious if anyone has tried replacing the inferior modern paper condensers that are causing the problems with a modern capacitor to just eliminate the problem completely ? 0.22 MFD 600V mylar or polycarbonate capacitor will apparently do the trick. I was trying to see if I could fit a modern one into and old condenser shell in case the judges ever pulled the distributor cap off . Yes, people have done it. I've done it temporarily to get home decades ago, but never tried to get the capacitance spot on. There have been discussions on other forums by people who have. I believe I read over on Fordbarn Model A section about someone making Model A replacements with modern capacitors inside. I'd rather have 600V or more. I don't think 250V is enough. "Film and Foil" construction is far preferable to "Metalized Film", but that makes the capacitor physically larger. "Metalized Film" self-heals when it arcs over internally, but loses plate area every time it happens. Capacitance would probably go down over time. It might be OK at first, and transfer metal on the points later. Pay attention to temperature. It's hot in a distributor. Some kinds of film cannot take much heat (polypropylene etc.) while others can take more (mylar, polyester etc.). Anything even remotely close to the right capacitance with a high enough working voltage should run. 5 hours ago, bradsan said: 0.22 MFD 600V mylar or polycarbonate I'm not sure what polycarbonate is in this context. I think I have heard of it but can't remember. If it's a film capacitor, ceramic, or anything else like that it should run. How close you need to be on capacitance to not burn points if you drive regularly I don't know. 0.22 is a standard value in electronics so is easy to buy. Tolerance for capacitance in Film Capacitors is typically rated +-5%, +-10% or +-20%. Whether 0.22 microfarads is close enough to not transfer metal on the points for your car, I have no idea. Try it and see. Don't use any polarized capacitor (with a dedicated positive or negative lead), so no electrolytic, or aluminum polymer, hybrid polymer, tantalum, or anything like that. Mind the decimal point (0.22). I've heard "22 microfarads" thrown about in other forums, and it most definitely isn't 22 microfarads. Edited January 7 by Bloo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee H Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 5 hours ago, bradsan said: 0.22 MFD 600V mylar or polycarbonate capacitor will apparently do the trick Yes, but max temperature ratings begin to become important. PP probably is not a good choice since it’s rated max is 105C (220F). Mylar is better at 125C (257F). Also, some capacitors have a better temperature coefficient than others. You need something stable over a wide temp range. And “working temperature” is typically around 70C, so no guarantees about where capacitance goes when the engine gets very warm. The point is that there probably are some choices out there that would outperform the condensers we can currently buy over the counter, but it will need some good research. It’s a pretty hostile environment that most modern capacitors aren’t designed for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 You guys are making my head HURT. I am sure glad I was/am able to forget all this with HEI! Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) Here is one discussion: https://www.mgexp.com/forum/mgb-and-gt-forum.1/condenser-retrofit-capacitor.3580196/page-2 And another one with pictures and description of what he used to make a new condenser. https://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?t=31632&start=75 Edited January 8 by Frank DuVal (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Years ago back in the late 80’s we would buy solid state capacitors for Harley’s. They worked well but were ten times the cost of a regular condenser. I was always surprised that no one made some solid state units to look correct for most pre war applications. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brasscarguy Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Back in the day when I was a kid in a automotive shop, the old timers had a fool proof way to test condensers. Again the good old days everyone wore coveralls. So the old guys would charge a condenser and drop in into the side pockets of the 'new kids' coveralls. The next morning when the kid put the coveralls on he naturally shoved his hands into the side pockets the get them straightened out. ZAP ZAP!!!!!!! he got the shock of his life!!!! no harm just a great laugh for the older guys to start their day. just sayin' brasscarguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 On 1/2/2024 at 7:02 AM, edinmass said: That would have been a capacitor…….usually for an electric motor. We did it all the time at our motorcycle shop. Put a 3hp capacitor out of a walk in beer cooler all charged up on the counter with a sign that said danger, do not touch. The screams were a riot. Fantastic entertainment for the boys in the shop. Then again, the acetylene bombs are much more fun! As an apprentice electrician, there was a pub across the road from the trade school I attended. We were banned from going there at lunch time as somebody had wired up the urinal with a charged condenser. The practical joker should have been made to use the thing! Steve 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 On 1/2/2024 at 3:47 PM, DFeeney said: I believe the condenser also allows the primary field of the coil to sweep the secondary field at a faster rate which then allows the coil to put out 12-14K volts. If you slow down the rate of sweep , the coil has less of a output and does not make enough KV volts to spark the plug. It is my understanding the engine will not start if the condenser is removed. Am I wrong? That's the reason the old condenser is out of the car. Why would you disconnect it if the car started with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 The point I was trying to make was that the condenser does more than keeping the spark from jumping across the points. To prove this, have a running engine and unhook the condenser and the engine will not start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nat Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 On 1/12/2024 at 7:58 AM, brasscarguy said: the old guys would charge a condenser and drop in into the side pockets of the 'new kids' coveralls. I used to take new ones out of the box, charge them up and put them back on the shelf. I never witnessed the reaction but figured that if the customer got zapped he/she/it could be reasonably well assured that they were installing a working condenser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timecapsule Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 On 1/2/2024 at 12:46 PM, MCHinson said: I will let Bloo or someone else with more technical training explain why, but... No, You are wrong. The condenser is the cheapest, easiest to change and most likely cause for a failure in the ignition circuit. Personal experience tells me that if it quits firing, try changing the condenser and you have a good chance of having fixed the problem. I once did a tune up on a 1937 Buick and it would not run. I removed the "new out of the package" imported condenser and reinstalled the old condensor and the car would run again. On that note, does anyone know of a reliable source for reliable condensers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 Condensers on the early Ford V8's fit thru the bakalite coil that forms the top of the distributor. The reason i want to test my spare one's, is because they need to have the ground strap un-soldered and re-attached before it can be installed in the Ford distributor. 2 of my 4 spare condensers are not Ford parts and I have to fabricate the grounding bracket before I can try them. Tell me how you charged them up before shocking your co-workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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