Dave Wells Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Oil refiners struggle to make premium gasoline Here’s some bad news for drivers of luxury and performance cars who are pumping the top grade of gasoline: the premium they pay over regular fuel is getting pricier. https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/oil-refiners-struggle-to-make-premium-gasoline/ar-AA18OJDI?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Smolinski Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 First, I am pretty sure octane is the measure of how much compression a fuel can withstand before igniting. That said, I also believe octane is NOT a hydrocarbon as the article states. And that said, then making such an ignorant statement puts the whole article in question as bunk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryankazmer Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 "Octane" is a hydrocarbon, C8H18. "Octane rating" or "octane number" is a property of a gasoline blend, related to how octane itself performs. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 All of this chemical talk is way over my head. I always ran 'hi-test' in my cars and motorcycle but when reg is .30 a gal cheaper I switched. Never have a tank of gas last more than a day or two and havent noticed any difference in performance. My f150 recommend low octane anyway. I did get a bad batch of diesel one time though. I helped an old timer that broke down with his harley, he was a mechanical genius, said the problem was that the 'new gas didnt have enough btu's'. I had no idea what he was talking about. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldcarfudd Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 My Model T can probably run just fine on equal parts whale oil and bubble gum. My Stanley wants clean kerosene or (basically the same thing) Jet A. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zdillinger Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 None of mine require anything other than regular, and I don't see that changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, George Smolinski said: George, you’re showing your age by using the word “bunk” ! Today’s language would be much more graphic! dave s Edited March 20, 2023 by SC38dls (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Third sentence of the article's lead-in paragraph, and the third paragraph, tell you everything you need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Oil companies when asked about prices going up: "Well the sun came up and made it difficult to make gasoline." Sun goes down. Oil companies when asked about prices still going up: "Well the sun went down and made it difficult to make gasoline." 3 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dship Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Two of my cars take regular, but the third car with a turbo suggests premium. I put in mid-grade since I very rarely punch in the turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Str8-8-Dave Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 (edited) If I could find it for my 1931 Buick with it's outrageously high 4.5-1 compression ratio I would use sub-regular grade ETHANOL FREE fuel. Someone several posts back stated correctly that Octane is a hydrocarbon and Octane rating is the amount of compression, actually compression heat, the fuel will handle without pre-igniting or igniting before it is touched off by the spark plug. There is one other consideration. The higher the octane the slower the combustion cycle. This can result in combustion continuing after the exhaust valve opens. That's really hard on the exhaust valve because as soon as it lifts off the valve seat it loses the conduction cooling provided by the cylinder head or cylinder block until it can close again. It's also a waste of power, fuel continuing to burn after the exhaust valve opens just vents out the exhaust system making it run hot and contributing nothing to the power stroke. All that said I won't run ethanol fuel in my car unless I have to. In our vented fuel tank systems it absorbs water by the gallon and rusts or corrodes everything that water comes in contact with. The last straw with ethanol fuel came a few years ago when I put 10% ethanol regular gas in my car and as soon as it started it was spewing water all over the left side of the engine compartment where it was leaking exhaust gas from the diverter valve to heat riser exhaust pipe, which at the time was not properly sealed. I got rid of that fuel and switched to non-ethanol and never saw water leaking from the diverter valve to heat riser pipe again, even though it remained un-sealed and leaking exhaust gas at the castings. Unfortunately I have never found 85-86 octane non-ethanol fuel, it's all 90 octane or higher. My nearest source of non-ethanol fuel is a Sunoco station that sells non-ethanol recreational fuel and it is 90 octane. Many years ago I learned from hot rodding the correct, most efficient fuel, is the lowest octane fuel you can burn that does not pre-ignite. It makes the best power and is easiest on exhaust valves. Edited March 20, 2023 by Str8-8-Dave (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28 Chrysler Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Again I see the implication of high quality = high octane. Most cars run fine on pump gas, many newer cars if not most will adjust themself s to whatever they are filled with. 87 octane blended with kerosene to get in the mid 60s octane works for me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Both my 66 Dodge and 60 Buick have factory high compression engines designed to run premium gas. I run them both on 87 regular with ethanol without any pinging or other issues. Most likely because they have plenty of miles on them making the "high" compression not so high... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Your octane should look like your compression ratio. All engines were designed to run on the gas available at the time. A twenties car with 4.5:1 or 5:1 compression will run fine on 45 or 50 octane, straight run gas, next thing to lamp oil. Early Rolls Royces fall in this category believe it or not. Compression ratios slowly crept up until around 1950 when 7.5:1 or so was the rule, requiring 75 octane fuel. High compression was 8.5:1. This was when you could buy Union 76 or 86 gas, 76 or 86 octane. Then they went to real high compression in the fifties and sixties with some cars 10:1 or 11:1 requiring 100 octane or higher, like Blue Sunoco 103 octane. Even cheap six cylinder cars had 8.5:1. B/A sold 88 and 98 octane, and others had similar ratings. Then came unleaded gas, catalytic converters, and lower compression engines for anti pollution reasons. Octane eventually settled to 87 and 92 octane where it is today. So, unless you have a high compression high performance job from the fifties or sixties today's regular should be fine as far as octane goes. Your rings and valves may benefit from a little upper cylinder lube added to the gas because today's gas is thin and dry compared to the oily gas of yesteryear but that is another question. Incidentally Hemi head engines require LOWER octane than wedge head engines. This is something Chrysler bragged about with their hemis in the fifties, they had what they called "mechanical octane" meaning the combustion chamber shape was so efficient it did not require expensive high octane fuel. This is one reason they dropped the hemi, as high octane fuel became available the hemi had no advantage over a conventional engine or at least not enough to justify the extra complexity and expense. And why some makers of expensive cars went back to the hemi design when super high octane fuel was no longer available. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 51 minutes ago, TexRiv_63 said: Both my 66 Dodge and 60 Buick have factory high compression engines designed to run premium gas. I run them both on 87 regular with ethanol without any pinging or other issues. Most likely because they have plenty of miles on them making the "high" compression not so high... Can they inform me "Ultra High Compression" Osemobeels about that?!😛 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 1 hour ago, rocketraider said: Can they inform me "Ultra High Compression" Osemobeels about that?!😛 No, but I can Glenn. I have two cars that I built for grand touring. I built the engines for sustained high speed use usually in the 2,000-5,200-rpm usage. The cars also are used on cruise nights or sometimes a little tour. When I lived at sea level and later at about 1,200 feet. I could get away with 92 octane on the street, but at the track either engine would not tolerate 92 at all and I would have to buy leaded VP 110 racing fuel from the track. Now that I've moved away to Northern Arizona, and there are no racetracks close by I started to do my usual street fuel routine. That routine changed because I didn't factor in the fact that I'm now at 5,200 feet, and for most of the time especially in winter I can use 87. The engines are Pontiac 462" (455) with 10.5 compression and a 430 (428) Pontiac with 10.75 compression. Or course if I were racing them the fuel requirement would be different, but now it's just easy street driving. Altitude makes a huge difference. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Smolinski Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 10 hours ago, SC38dls said: George, you’re showing your age by using the word “bunk” ! Today’s language would be much more graphic! dave s I could edit to accommodate current language 😄 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlier Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 21 hours ago, Vinny... said: Oil refiners struggle to make premium gasoline Here’s some bad news for drivers of luxury and performance cars who are pumping the top grade of gasoline: the premium they pay over regular fuel is getting pricier. I am guessing that Sheetz did not get the memo from the oil companies about premium being more expensive. From March 17th to the 24th Regular, Plus and Premium grades of fuel are all being sold for the Regular grade cost at all stations in all the states Sheetz has stations including here in Pennsylvania. This is not the first time that Sheetz has done this in the last few months. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Same thing at Sheetz here along VA/NC border. Now, if Sheetz can do it, why not the rest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 9 hours ago, charlier said: I am guessing that Sheetz did not get the memo from the oil companies about premium being more expensive. From March 17th to the 24th Regular, Plus and Premium grades of fuel are all being sold for the Regular grade cost at all stations in all the states Sheetz has stations including here in Pennsylvania. This is not the first time that Sheetz has done this in the last few months. BUT, gas is about .20 a gallon higher across the board than MD. Always fill my tank before heading north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 At one time PA had the highest gas tax in US. We used to see the same thing here along the border as NC tax was 20c higher than VA. Then Guvnah McAuliffe jacked up VA gas tax claiming it was needed for road maintenance. The roads are still beat all to pieces, and price is the same both sides of the border. So I ask myself do I support VA roads or NC roads. To be fair, my back yard is less than 1/8 mile from the state line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, rocketraider said: The roads are still beat all to pieces. Just think how bad they would have been without the extra revenue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Everyone blames taxes for high gas prices, not the oil companies that made $220 BILLION in profits last year (which was TWICE as much as the previous year). Americans will gladly take a reaming, as long as it's the "free market" doing it to them. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryankazmer Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Gas taxes do not go up and down week-to-week, and are a relatively small percentage of the price. Did you choose your vehicle based on fuel economy, or because there was a great deal on 5000 lb pick-ups? Either choice is fine, but accept the trade-offs. Matt is on target - notice that gas movement is with the "replacement price" of crude when going up. The actual retail stock of gasoline doesn't "see" the newly priced crude for some time, the inventory being sold was made from "older" crude. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) Why is it all gas stations are the same prices in an area? If car dealers all had the exact same prices on like cars wouldn’t the govt step iin and say it’s a monopoly or collusion therefore illegal and guys like Matt would go to jail. But the gas company honchos get bonuses instead. 200 billion in profits is obscene when they say cost of crude is just higher so gas has to be higher. 200 billion is obscene for their excuse. 200 billion is obscene but we are not upset with the gas company and blame taxes. Get real guys it’s simply greed. dave s ps - just to be sure you know how I feel 209 billion in profits are obscene to use an excuse of cost have gone higher so prices have to go up. Edited March 21, 2023 by SC38dls (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesR Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 On 3/19/2023 at 11:31 PM, Vinny... said: Oil refiners struggle to make premium gasoline I have three V-8 engines in my old Ford fleet, and I presume that regular 87 octane is good enough for at least a couple of them. No pinging experienced. (No ethanol is run in any of these cars. ) The 390 in my Thunderbird I'm not quite sure about though. It's not the original engine...the original engine was a 300 horse 390 with 4v and a 10:1 compression ratio, for which premium fuel was recommended. The casting numbers on the 390 in my car suggest it's from a '67 Mercury and it appears to have the original carb - a 2v autolite unit. If things are as they appear, this engine would be a 270 horsepower unit and have a 9.5:1 compression ration. I mostly run premium in it to be safe, but the few times I've put 87 octane in it, I haven't experienced pinging or any bad things. Do you think it could run on regular 87 octane consistently without any negative effects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Str8-8-Dave Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 If it doesn't spark knock on 87 under heavy load and throttle 87 is good enough. Sometimes these engines will present with another problem, park diesel, ignition off and car in park, engine continues to run and knock. The 67 Mercury 410 cu in engine was notorious for that. Motorcraft carburetors were equipped with an idle solenoid to prevent park diesel, as were many GM cars with Rochester carburetors. Idle rpm should be set with the solenoid plunger screw. The butterfly stop screw IS NOT THE IDLE SCREW on these carburetors. The stop screw should be adjusted to just barely prevent throttle butterflies from closing completely resting on the throttle bore plate. The idle stop plunger on single stage solenoids holds the throttle butterflies open to idle setting when ignition is on and collapses when ignition is switched off allowing butterflies to close far enough to prevent park diesel. Some were 2 stage solenoids and second stage provides fast idle when engine is started cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 1 hour ago, JamesR said: I have three V-8 engines in my old Ford fleet, and I presume that regular 87 octane is good enough for at least a couple of them. No pinging experienced. (No ethanol is run in any of these cars. ) The 390 in my Thunderbird I'm not quite sure about though. It's not the original engine...the original engine was a 300 horse 390 with 4v and a 10:1 compression ratio, for which premium fuel was recommended. The casting numbers on the 390 in my car suggest it's from a '67 Mercury and it appears to have the original carb - a 2v autolite unit. If things are as they appear, this engine would be a 270 horsepower unit and have a 9.5:1 compression ration. I mostly run premium in it to be safe, but the few times I've put 87 octane in it, I haven't experienced pinging or any bad things. Do you think it could run on regular 87 octane consistently without any negative effects? As long as there is no detonation yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 On 3/20/2023 at 12:27 PM, rocketraider said: Can they inform me "Ultra High Compression" Osemobeels about that?!😛 No way Glenn. I definitely needed premium in my 63 Starfire 394! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 On 3/21/2023 at 10:53 AM, Matt Harwood said: Everyone blames taxes for high gas prices, not the oil companies that made $220 BILLION in profits last year (which was TWICE as much as the previous year). Americans will gladly take a reaming, as long as it's the "free market" doing it to them. Move to Canada. We have a government owned oil company (Petrocan) and a government energy policy. This means gas prices can go up but they don't go down. Right now local gas price is $1.45 a liter (quart) for the cheapest regular. And this is by no means the highest in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 My daily takes the highest grade premium available (with the exception of some rare new places that sell 100) generally paying between $1.40 to $1.50 USD a litre During Covid it was about $0.60 a litre! I can get 30mpg if I drive sensibly but the sky’s the limit if I push it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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