Using Excel spreadsheets for in depth research work

[30DodgePanel]

I'm curious how many on here use Excel while researching automotive parts or while comparing models produced for historical data. Have you found tricks that make it useful or have you found it to be too much work to input the many parts numbers and descriptions?

 

I realize parts stores and some areas of the modern industry use Excel for searching and categorizing parts numbers (and other uses), but they have paid workers to design and build those spreadsheets within their systems. I'm strictly asking about the research aspect while comparing models produced and how each year may have shared a common interchangeable part as a  novice Excel user. 

 

Here is the reason I'm wanting to take on this project and why I feel it's so important.

Graham and Dodge Brothers truck literature is the only way to uncover some of the long lost answers. However, that literature is spread throughout the world thanks to resell and the internet. As a researcher, it makes it nearly impossible to compare literature because it is simply unavailable to any one person. For this reason, I hope by comparing parts numbers per model it may uncover some of those answers.

 

Surely this has been tried before and other researchers have run into the same issues. What have you found that works or doesn't work? Looking to hear any pros and cons before I attempt to tackle a lengthy project.

 

Below is a small incomplete example of the BE model of Graham/Dodge Brothers trucks I've categorized chronologically by frame and engine numbers. Some are existing trucks and some are from registration copies I've found while searching the internet (I've blotted out both frame and engine numbers for obvious reasons).

 

Out of 33 base models produced in the E series trucks from 1928-1932 the BE is just one of those models that began production after July 1928. Since I can now show the chronological order of frames that were Detroit built trucks, Evansville built, Stockton built we now have the potential to recognize more quickly when changes took place according to frame or engine numbers used in the Master Parts Books and other literature, "IF" I can find a standarized and simple method of adding 50 pages of parts #'s. This (in theory) would not only help with recognizing changes but also may shed light on lost details in regards to why these trucks were produced in random weight ratings back to back on the assembly line. For example the E series 1 1/4 ton were made randomly as they were ordered alongside 3/4 ton and 3 ton trucks even as the new F series rolled out. Yes, a confusing mess for any researcher as none of these points have ever been easily defined without countless hours of research not to mention the cost of the literature.

 

The next model built after the BE in the 130" wheelbase was the DA130. However, to date no DA130 owners have come forth and I've found nothing on file (yet) in the club rosters but my work is in progress. Since there are no DA130 truck details I will show a 124" wheelbase truck the DA124 model showing the higher frame numbers which shows the exact time of the change over from the previous models as frame # D2213xx

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

Glad you are doing this. I have a Trans Am Registry (tenth anniversary model) and I use the same format. I know nothing about computers and found that to be the simplest way for me to make a list. Other than that I cannot offer any advice. 

 

 

[61polara]

It can be done, but first you have to enter the 50 page parts manual into an Excel spreadsheet.  You can manually enter the data or scan it and convert the scanned pages to an Excel spreadsheet.  Comon data that you will use to cross-reference from your model list to the parts list must be in the same exact format for a search function to work.

[Barney Eaton]

For newer cars....... use Rock Auto

Look up the part for your vehicle,   click on the blue part number and it will show all the other cars it fits.

Very helpful if you are looking for a part in the pick n pull

The down side is not all the parts you might need are often not listed. 

[joe_padavano]

3 minutes ago, Barney Eaton said:

For newer cars....... use Rock Auto

Look up the part for your vehicle,   click on the blue part number and it will show all the other cars it fits.

Very helpful if you are looking for a part in the pick n pull

The down side is not all the parts you might need are often not listed. 

 

Sorry, but if you think RockAuto (or any aftermarket parts supplier catalog) is an accurate representation of part fitment, you are sadly mistaken. I can show you a whole litany of incorrect part fitment info just for mid-60s Oldsmobiles.

[tcslr]

Use your preferred OCR ( optical character reader) that should provide/produce a .csv ( comma separated value) file. That can be converted to excel file. 
you will have to examine the formatting. It’ll likely be a good bit of work. There are apps that can create and convert .pdf files to excel - that is another option. 
good luck. It can be done. The amount of time and effort is the unknown. 
 

[ojh.]

I use 'MyDataBase' for any particular project, you can store photos, notes etc and sort by Date or part description, group etc however you want to set it up.  I have to manually load and its time consuming but it's worth it in the end.  

For instance, on the cylinder head I can search for Group (engine), then 'Cylinder Head' and then Date 'Ascending' and the program will return all the photos & data I've entered for the head in the order it was done ie, photo of the head as I received it, the condition it went to the machine shop (along with the shop name & date), the condition how it came out of the shop, the valves, springs, retainer kit, part# and supplier, the photo of the assembled head and date, the head being installed on the engine etc.  In short, a complete cradle to grave history of any and all parts in the project.

Its a very inexpensive program, they give you the tools to create the database and you do the actual formatting of the fields, it took me about 6-8 attempts to get it to where I like it.  On the current shop project I have about 800 entries into the database and I'm just getting started.

[Jim Skelly]

As with any software, eventually the files will become unreadable.  That happened to some Excel files I had from about a decade ago.  They worked on my old computer purchased in 2018, but now some don't work on the computer I purchased last year.

[Peter Gariepy]

The real work isn't the tool you choose.  It's collecting all the data, and structuring the data so you can do the research.

 

Excel is a tool. Also consider using similar tools like Google Spreadsheet or a database. Spreadsheets are simply columns of data. Databases are more robust, but also harder to use. A shared (cloud) spreadsheet or database also allows you to recruit people to help with data entry, and to share the data with others so they an do research as well.

 

An alternative solution:  Get PDF files of all the data.  Then simply use a search tool to drill into the data. (no data entry)

 

 

[Peter Gariepy]

39 minutes ago, Jim Skelly said:

As with any software, eventually the files will become unreadable.  That happened to some Excel files I had from about a decade ago.  They worked on my old computer purchased in 2018, but now some don't work on the computer I purchased last year.

If you need the data and still have the spreadsheets, I can get to them to work in the latest excel or google spreadsheet.

[30DodgePanel]

1 hour ago, joe_padavano said:

 

Sorry, but if you think RockAuto (or any aftermarket parts supplier catalog) is an accurate representation of part fitment, you are sadly mistaken. I can show you a whole litany of incorrect part fitment info just for mid-60s Oldsmobiles.

True, and I understand what you mean Joe, but the gist of what Barney touched on has a ton of potential in many ways. I love the idea of clicking an icon or abbreviation that will open another avenue of further details no matter what the part or item is. Especially if I can add photo capability too so I can put a visual of the body styles and changes next to key points such as frame # changes for new model introduction. Just to name a few things I'm hoping to accomplish with this project.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Jim Skelly said:

As with any software, eventually the files will become unreadable.  That happened to some Excel files I had from about a decade ago.  They worked on my old computer purchased in 2018, but now some don't work on the computer I purchased last year.

I get it Jim, updates and newer versions of software will always be necessary to continue the work as computer and software technologies advance. I believe we can continue reading as long as we make any necessary conversions before they become un-readable as the newer technology rolls out. At least that's my understanding, I could be wrong and would appreciate any correction. 

 

 

45 minutes ago, tcslr said:

Use your preferred OCR ( optical character reader) that should provide/produce a .csv ( comma separated value) file. That can be converted to excel file. 
you will have to examine the formatting. It’ll likely be a good bit of work. There are apps that can create and convert .pdf files to excel - that is another option. 
good luck. It can be done. The amount of time and effort is the unknown. 
 

I'll be honest tcslr, I have no idea what this means but has definite potential and I'll be looking into how to accomplish this. Both of the possibilites you mention have given me much hope. 

 

 

 

40 minutes ago, ojh. said:

I use 'MyDataBase' for any particular project, you can store photos, notes etc and sort by Date or part description, group etc however you want to set it up.  I have to manually load and its time consuming but it's worth it in the end.  

For instance, on the cylinder head I can search for Group (engine), then 'Cylinder Head' and then Date 'Ascending' and the program will return all the photos & data I've entered for the head in the order it was done ie, photo of the head as I received it, the condition it went to the machine shop (along with the shop name & date), the condition how it came out of the shop, the valves, springs, retainer kit, part# and supplier, the photo of the assembled head and date, the head being installed on the engine etc.  In short, a complete cradle to grave history of any and all parts in the project.

Its a very inexpensive program, they give you the tools to create the database and you do the actual formatting of the fields, it took me about 6-8 attempts to get it to where I like it.  On the current shop project I have about 800 entries into the database and I'm just getting started.

Also very encouraged by your response ojh. I particularly like this idea as I zero in on one specific model and year. Converting to the thousands of parts #'s and models, weight ratings, what's interchangeable or not interchangeable may pose some challenges but I love the idea and will definitely be looking into this software. 

 

Thank you all for your input to this point.

I'm surprised at some of the responses everyone has given to this point simply because I didn't expect much of a response as I'd kind of thought it was impossible to be frank. In my opinion, after reading some of your responses here, this topic has a very high potential to change things for those of us researchers who like to share things on a novice level. I'm sure most of the professional researchers in the academic world have a solid understanding on this topic but I would bet that many novice who stumble on this thread may find parts of it useful. 

 

Very encouraging.

Thank you

[Walt G]

21 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

The real work isn't the tool you choose.  It's collecting all the data, and structuring the data so you can do the research.

 

These sage words apply to historical research as well , biggest thing is knowing were to look at original material that even had data, information, images, photographs . Does that exist and if found can it be combined with other information "of the era"  to give a true accurate presentation in a article or story of what happened. First person accounts of what was going on are not that common, and some information can only be found in "trade" publications that was not readily available to the general pubic even when new. Industry or dealer only publications. The joy of being a historian. Not everything can be scanned and copied to be on line for convenience. for all authors

I have had people get irate with me because they have a vehicle and demand that they also have the information I have  because they deserve it. I have ignored such behavior .

[joe_padavano]

27 minutes ago, 30DodgePanel said:

True, and I understand what you mean Joe, but the gist of what Barney touched on has a ton of potential in many ways. I love the idea of clicking an icon or abbreviation that will open another avenue of further details no matter what the part or item is. Especially if I can add photo capability too so I can put a visual of the body styles and changes next to key points such as frame # changes for new model introduction. Just to name a few things I'm hoping to accomplish with this project.

I've been doing a similar project to document both casting number and part number for various Oldsmobile parts myself. I've found that most of the available databases are fraught with incorrect info (on the interwebs, imagine that!). Unfortunately this incorrect info gets repeated when lazy researchers simply copy/paste the table into their own "original" work. Tagging each listing with photos of the items is the next step. As Peter noted, the tool, whether Excel, or Access, or any other spreadsheet or database tool, is irrelevant. The problem is finding the correct info to start with. Even factory documentation like parts books only provide a snapshot of information available as of the date of printing. Part numbers got superseded and the parts book only contains the current numbers. Tracing back through part number history documents, original assembly manual drawings, and similar data is time consuming and sometimes the documents don't even exist any more.

[30DodgePanel]

3 hours ago, 61polara said:

It can be done, but first you have to enter the 50 page parts manual into an Excel spreadsheet.  You can manually enter the data or scan it and convert the scanned pages to an Excel spreadsheet.  Comon data that you will use to cross-reference from your model list to the parts list must be in the same exact format for a search function to work.

 

Thanks that's encouraging Dave, but I'm hoping for a more efficient method of standardized entry so I don't have to enter those 50 pages manually. I can tell you understand what I'm hoping to accomplish as I will need to format in order to search correctly and quickly. What ever I end up doing, it is going to be time consuming but I'm just trying to lessen the workload somehow. Below is an example of what I experimented with doing the manual entry process that you touched on and it would be brutal and prolonged on a collosal scale. As an example one part may have been used with fourteen different models over a five year span, but four of those models used the part at many differing times depending on frame # which in turn creates a ton more work. I'm not sure I even want to open that pandoras box. This sample below took me an hour just for the clutch cover (give or take as I wasn't timing it). At that rate I'll be a daisy in the ground hoping someone else takes up the mantle.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

2 hours ago, tcslr said:

Use your preferred OCR ( optical character reader) that should provide/produce a .csv ( comma separated value) file. That can be converted to excel file. 
you will have to examine the formatting. It’ll likely be a good bit of work. There are apps that can create and convert .pdf files to excel - that is another option. 
good luck. It can be done. The amount of time and effort is the unknown. 
 

Can you translate into laymans terms? I love the idea of scanning or uploading a MPB (or better yet purchasing a disc already scanned) then converting it to Excel. If there is a tutorial video online that covers these two methods that would be useful. I'll do some digging into this and check back if I find anything that works for my needs. I'm probably trying to bite off too much as I'm hoping to put everything all on one page and be able to expand links to go more in depth to each area of interest. 

 

If you can post a snippet of what you're describing on here I'm sure it would be very useful to everyone. 

[Peter Gariepy]

3 hours ago, tcslr said:

Use your preferred OCR ( optical character reader) that should provide/produce a .csv ( comma separated value) file. That can be converted to excel file. 
you will have to examine the formatting. It’ll likely be a good bit of work. There are apps that can create and convert .pdf files to excel - that is another option. 
good luck. It can be done. The amount of time and effort is the unknown. 
 

In theory, yes.

In practice, there remains a TON of hand work required.  

[1937hd45]

Clueless as to what a spread sheet is or does, don't own a cellphone either. Hammers I understand, and I'm rather good in two careers that required them. 

[30DodgePanel]

8 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Clueless as to what a spread sheet is or does, don't own a cellphone either. Hammers I understand, and I'm rather good in two careers that required them. 

They use hammers in spreadsheets. 
After you work on one for an hour, you smack your hands with one to allieviate the pain the spreadsheet has caused you.

 

 

[joe_padavano]

54 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Clueless as to what a spread sheet is or does, don't own a cellphone either. Hammers I understand, and I'm rather good in two careers that required them. 

It's just a tool to contain information in list format. Think of it as the shop organizer with drawers that holds nuts and bolts. The difference is that the spreadsheet allows you to do things with the information automatically. If the information is numbers, you can do math functions (add columns of numbers, for example). You can sort alphabetically or numerically. You can search for specific values or types of values. Yeah, all of this can be done manually, but it's a lot faster in a spreadsheet. As with any task, the job is easier given the right tools.

[1937hd45]

2 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

It's just a tool to contain information in list format. Think of it as the shop organizer with drawers that holds nuts and bolts. The difference is that the spreadsheet allows you to do things with the information automatically. If the information is numbers, you can do math functions (add columns of numbers, for example). You can sort alphabetically or numerically. You can search for specific values or types of values. Yeah, all of this can be done manually, but it's a lot faster in a spreadsheet. As with any task, the job is easier given the right tools.

Sounds like something that gets lost or destroyed after hours of loading. Restoration work is best done in the garage. 

[joe_padavano]

31 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Sounds like something that gets lost or destroyed after hours of loading. Restoration work is best done in the garage. 

Save early, save often... 😁

 

[SC38dls]

Back it up to a thumb drive or the cloud every 15 minutes with a version number at the end of the name you use when you are doing updates. That way if your new entry’s are messed up you won’t loose your old good info. When you’re done do two backups one with the next version number and one without to use as your normal working version. Excel can be confusing to use at times and you may inadvertently destroy your data by using some of their processes. Good luck. 
dave s 

[61polara]

This is the best way to learn Excel.  Determine what you want to do and google it.  Save your working files to new files for testing.  You will have many failed results, but many learning experiences from it.

[Jim Skelly]

Excel, being a Microsoft product, is hit-or-miss as far as being able to read two files created at around the same time.  When I replaced my laptop, one file was readable on the new laptop and the other was not.  I worked in IT for forty years and saw many weird situations with no logical explanation.  The only guarantee is to create the document and print a hardcopy of it for future reference since you never know when something will prevent you from accessing the document again.

[hidden_hunter]

Share your work is the other great way of preserving it

 

Also things like google sheets are pretty good, online and can be exported into excel if you want a copy 

[Billy Kingsley]

I use Excel extensively for my hobby stuff. Primarily making lists. I keep copies of my work in three separate places and I won't leave my computer without backing it up.

 

I've entered almost 200,000 lines of information into one file alone, in a file I originally created in 2003. 

 

I don't have the information or knowledge of your project but I would recommend using Excel for it. 

[dship]

I use Excel to keep track of my Reatta and Eldorado spare parts inventories stored in my cellar.

[1937hd45]

9 minutes ago, dship said:

I use Excel to keep track of my Reatta and Eldorado spare parts inventories stored in my cellar.

I'm clueless as to what spread sheets are or where to buy one and use it, got to ask, how many Reatta parts can someone own that requires computer storage info keeping? 

[Bhigdog]

I guess all that ass time typing, alphabetizing, numbering and listing interests some folks but i,d rather spend my time making chips, saw dust, or even digging a post hole or two.....

Different strokes i guess....bob

 

[prewarnut]

I like the idea of optical scanners but not sure I trust it. Here's my two cents. You have 50 pages. There's 52 weeks in a year. Do one page a week and....

[30DodgePanel]

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

I guess all that ass time typing, alphabetizing, numbering and listing interests some folks but i,d rather spend my time making chips, saw dust, or even digging a post hole or two.....

Different strokes i guess....bob

 

Says the man with almost 9,000 posts. No seat time there...  

 

Life is all about balance. I watched the generations before me ignore this blaring issue in the Dodge Brothers Club for truck owners. Some of us have chosen not to make that selfish decision and have decided to do something about finding the answers for the next generations. Trust me, sometimes when I'm behind this box I'd much rather be out wrenching or sanding but everything in my life has it's time and place. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

I guess all that ass time typing, alphabetizing, numbering and listing interests some folks but I,d rather spend my time making chips, saw dust, or even digging a post hole or two.....

Different strokes i guess....bob

 

Finally a like minded individual! I'll add stonewall building to my  "Makes me happy list". 

[1937hd45]

8 minutes ago, 30DodgePanel said:

Says the man with almost 9,000 posts. No seat time there...  

 

Life is all about balance. I watched the generations before me ignore this blaring issue in the Dodge Brothers Club for truck owners. Some of us have chosen not to make that selfish decision and have decided to do something about finding the answers for the next generations. Trust me, sometimes when I'm behind this box I'd much rather be out wrenching or sanding but everything in my life has it's time and place. 

Care to share the "Blinding Issue" with the non DB members? 

[30DodgePanel]

1 minute ago, 1937hd45 said:

Care to share the "Blinding Issue" with the non DB members? 

Why's that, can you help me hammer it into correction?  

 

Seriously though Bob, it's pretty confusing to even Dodge Brothers truck owners who are members of the Club which is why most truck guys just accept word of mouth or stories for all their details on the truck they own, hence the reason guys like me are left to find all the answers. I realize some lazy asses don't care about the details... I get it, but those of us who do care choose to teach ourselves new techniques in research in order to some day make up the ground lost over the years. 

 

Here's a few "blinding issue" examples just for shits and giggles. Let me know if you can help  

1.) Why did the DA124 and DA133 appear out of nowhere in the E Series as they transitioned into the F Series trucks.  

2.) What are the exact serial # ranges

3.) At which point did they phase out the Victory Six engine for the DA6 truck engine

4.) Were the D series engines used in cars also

5.) How about the Standard, did the truck and cars both share the same engine

6.) Why did some E series trucks use a Carter Carb and some used a Zenith for the same engine

7.) Are DA6 Car engines and DA6 Truck engines the same ( Clue: no they are not! Found that out doing research like this) 

Etc.......

 

 Let me know if you want me to keep going or is this enough for you to help out with .... I have pages of questions and you'd be surprised how one part# can open up so many avenues of discovery. 

 

[30DodgePanel]

30 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Finally a like minded individual! I'll add stonewall building to my  "Makes me happy list". 

You guys act like none of us work or know how to dig a hole. Some of us have figured out that life isn't all about one thing in life. 
You both have more posts than any of us, yet judge us for sitting on our asses in our down time doing research work for historical reasons? What gives? 

[1937hd45]

7 minutes ago, 30DodgePanel said:

You guys act like none of us work or know how to dig a hole. Some of us have figured out that life isn't all about one thing in life. 
You both have more posts than any of us, yet judge us for sitting on our asses in our down time doing research work for historical reasons? What gives? 

I don't know what or where a spread sheet it. That has NOTHING to do with my doing research, if you need one fine. I don't plan to write a book, just collect information on cars I like and use that info to answer questions others may ask. 

[30DodgePanel]

26 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

I don't know what or where a spread sheet it. That has NOTHING to do with my doing research, if you need one fine. I don't plan to write a book, just collect information on cars I like and use that info to answer questions others may ask. 

Oh, I see you... you da man!  

 

I have short term memory issues so I better stick with Excel.

[1937hd45]

Time for me to close the book on this discussion, chances of ever seeing a spread sheet are slim to none. 

[Bhigdog]

2 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

Says the man with almost 9,000 posts. No seat time there..

Touche!......... Mea Culpa................Bob

[30DodgePanel]

On 3/17/2023 at 10:42 AM, joe_padavano said:

 I've found that most of the available databases are fraught with incorrect info (on the interwebs, imagine that!). Unfortunately this incorrect info gets repeated when lazy researchers simply copy/paste the table into their own "original" work. 

False regurgitation is THE single most annoying and frustrating thing about research work in my opinion. 

We've all been guilty of it (unfortunately), but the key is to recognize our mistakes and improve on them while we can and not continue in a indolent state that contribute to this regurgitation process.

 

By the way, I've been experimenting with tagging photos and other pertinent information within a cell and it's extremely encouraging to see where this may lead. Makes a person want to continue working on it all hours of the night, but then we circle back to that indolent state again... 

 

It's a vicious circle I tell ya!  

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)