title - company that will purchase a car, obtain georgia ownership, then sell the car back so it can be titled. - an update

[automaschinewerks]

i have a curious question.  i have bought a parts car, that has long lost the ownership.  i just talked to a friend that remembers seeing an article somewhere, perhaps hemmings magazine, about an outfit in georgia that will communicate with the original owner, purchase the car, obtain georgia ownership, then sell the car back to the purchaser for a small percentage for the fee for obtaining a current ownership.  has anyone heard of this? btw, the car does not have to be transported to georgia.

thanks - terry

[joe_padavano]

Most of these title services operate in states that don't issue titles for vehicles over a certain age. The service takes ownership of the vehicle, titles it in their name, then "sells" it back to you.

[TTR]

13 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

Most of these title services operate in states that don't issue titles for vehicles over a certain age. The service takes ownership of the vehicle, titles it in their name, then "sells" it back to you.

... and some of them are being used for creating/laundering/washing titles for stolen cars.

 

30 minutes ago, automaschinewerks said:

i have a curious question.  i have bought a parts car, that has long lost the ownership.  i just talked to a friend that remembers seeing an article somewhere, perhaps hemmings magazine, about an outfit in georgia that will communicate with the original owner, purchase the car, obtain georgia ownership, then sell the car back to the purchaser for a small percentage for the fee for obtaining a current ownership.  has anyone heard of this? btw, the car does not have to be transported to georgia.

thanks - terry

If the car you bought is purely intended as "a parts car" and has long ago lost its title, why would you need one if you're just going to chop/part it out ?

Or was it perhaps previously used as "a parts car" (or maybe even stolen at one time or another), but you're intending to get a title in hopes of selling it as a whole car ?

And if it doesn't have a title, how do you know the seller even had a right to sell it to you ? 

 

[automaschinewerks]

23 minutes ago, TTR said:

... and some of them are being used for creating/laundering/washing titles for stolen cars.

 

If the car you bought is purely intended as "a parts car" and has long ago lost its title, why would you need one if you're just going to chop/part it out ?

Or was it perhaps previously used as "a parts car" (or maybe even stolen at one time or another), but you're intending to get a title in hopes of selling it as a whole car ?

And if it doesn't have a title, how do you know the seller even had a right to sell it to you ? 

 

so i'm using the parts car to get two of my cars closer to the finish line, and when i get the parts car home it will be well used getting things finished.

i dont plan on selling any of my cars until i'm in boot hill.

this is off the wall,  but how do i know if any of the parts i have bought on ebay, or from sellers on here, are not stolen from somewhere, and had any right to be sold to me?  

believe me i am full of appreciation and thanks to everyone in my travels and members on this forum who have sold me parts and with advice.

- terry

 

[automaschinewerks]

1 hour ago, joe_padavano said:

Most of these title services operate in states that don't issue titles for vehicles over a certain age. The service takes ownership of the vehicle, titles it in their name, then "sells" it back to you.

okay, so it is a thing that happens.

[alsancle]

Whatever happened to Broadway title in Alabama?

[joe_padavano]

Just now, alsancle said:

Whatever happened to Broadway title in Alabama?

Google is your friend.

 

https://www.broadwaytitle.com/

[1937hd45]

3 hours ago, automaschinewerks said:

i have a curious question.  i have bought a parts car, that has long lost the ownership.  i just talked to a friend that remembers seeing an article somewhere, perhaps hemmings magazine, about an outfit in georgia that will communicate with the original owner, purchase the car, obtain georgia ownership, then sell the car back to the purchaser for a small percentage for the fee for obtaining a current ownership.  has anyone heard of this? btw, the car does not have to be transported to georgia.

thanks - terry

 

This differs if you have a 1962 Dodge four door or a 1932 Duesenberg Four Door "Parts Car".

[arcticbuicks]

interesting reading the USA title system ,and i bought several classic in the past in USA,.......on a funny note not only does a lot of Canada still not have so called title..........i bought a 30s Pontiac with the 'registration ownership paper in Saskatchewan official government Province issued " still in the glove box .........it had the owners name address make model and year etc..........and NO serial number !......not even a spot for serial number to be filled in lol.........pretty trusting in the old days i guess......cop pulls guy over and says " can i see your licence and registration "..........looks it over ......"yup....all good have a nice day eh "

[Matt Harwood]

Most states now reject paperwork from those title companies in non-title states. They're onto the scam and it rarely works anymore. The companies will still take your money and create a registration for the car but you'll still have a heck of a time getting a title. Missing titles are a very big problem. When each state was doing things on paper or before all the DMV computers were talking to each other, it wasn't a problem but today the DMV knows exactly where that registration came from, how old it is, and where the car was before. They will not be cooperative.

 

I recently bought a parts car and there was the possibility that it didn't have a title. I didn't care. It was never going to be registered or used as anything but a car-shaped spare parts collection. They did find the title eventually, but I was completely prepared to live without it. On a parts car, it doesn't really matter.

 

If it's a parts car, I'd say forget the title, take the parts you need, and dispose of the rest.

[Bloo]

18 minutes ago, arcticbuicks said:

interesting reading the USA title system ,and i bought several classic in the past in USA,.......on a funny note not only does a lot of Canada still not have so called title..........i bought a 30s Pontiac with the 'registration ownership paper in Saskatchewan official government Province issued " still in the glove box .........it had the owners name address make model and year etc..........and NO serial number !......not even a spot for serial number to be filled in lol.........pretty trusting in the old days i guess......cop pulls guy over and says " can i see your licence and registration "..........looks it over ......"yup....all good have a nice day eh "

There is no USA title system, it is by state and different in all 50. Some states still don't title I think (Vermont?). These title threads are always beyond silly because members are in different states, and Canada, and Australia, and NZ, etc. Everyone has a solution, but rarely if ever lives in the same jurisdiction as the original poster. I read in this site somewhere that in NY they didn't have titles until 1975, while here in WA we have had them longer than anyone can remember.

 

3 hours ago, TTR said:

If the car you bought is purely intended as "a parts car" and has long ago lost its title, why would you need one if you're just going to chop/part it out ?

 

22 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

If it's a parts car, I'd say forget the title, take the parts you need, and dispose of the rest.

Great if that works in your state. I'll admit I haven't got rid of any hulks recently, but as far as I know you cannot dispose of a hulk in WA without a title. It used to make the difference between someone paying you for a "parts car", and paying to get rid of one. It probably still does. I have mentioned before that WA has the highest sawzalls per capita in the USA. I was only sort of kidding.

 

[erichill]

I would not bank on this especially the idea that the car doesn't need to be present.I live in Georgia and over the past ten years I have had three antique cars and one antique motorcycle that i purchased, and in obtaining a title fro each one a police officer had to come to my house and personally inspect the VIN including a Ford Model A purchased from New Jersey that I had the previous title for.  That's just been my experience.

[automaschinewerks]

thanks for all the conversations.  

i am trying to get the necessary paperwork so my dad can bring the car back into canada, without having to dismantle the engine out of the car and load separately on the trailer to cross the border as a parts car.   i would rather everything be in one piece so i can dismantle it, i dont want to lose any parts.

- terry

[automaschinewerks]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

Most states now reject paperwork from those title companies in non-title states. They're onto the scam and it rarely works anymore. The companies will still take your money and create a registration for the car but you'll still have a heck of a time getting a title. Missing titles are a very big problem. When each state was doing things on paper or before all the DMV computers were talking to each other, it wasn't a problem but today the DMV knows exactly where that registration came from, how old it is, and where the car was before. They will not be cooperative.

 

I recently bought a parts car and there was the possibility that it didn't have a title. I didn't care. It was never going to be registered or used as anything but a car-shaped spare parts collection. They did find the title eventually, but I was completely prepared to live without it. On a parts car, it doesn't really matter.

 

If it's a parts car, I'd say forget the title, take the parts you need, and dispose of the rest.

right on, i would not care about the title, i just want to make it easier for when my dad makes it there to bring the car back.  the parts car will be a pile of parts when im done,  it will never be close to being on the road.

- terry

Edited January 10, 2023 by automaschinewerks (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Be very careful about removng a car from the U.S. There is now a very formal process for doing this, driving car or parts car. It's all in the U.S. Customs, vehicle export regulations . Available on line. It will make your head swim.

 Up to several years ago there was no problem and I brought several cars , and even more parts cars home to British Columbia. But that has all ended. Now any and all motorized vehicles  { and not just cars and trucks , any , farm tractors , work site motorized things , all of it } need to be officially exported. It's all on line and it is a serious problem with serious penalties for non compliance.

 It's really messed things up for me. If only it was as simple as pulling out the engine . I had one U.S. Agent insist a bare frame needed to be documented and processed. Luckily it was a factory built for racing,   race car frame { 1977 Lola Formula car  } and I could show him that they were supplied as a spare part from the factory to repair crash damaged cars, and did not by itself constitute a  " motor vehicle ". But if it had been a frame from a regular production vehicle with a serial number it would have been a " motor vehicle " in the eyes of that particular Customs Agent and I would have needed to go through the entire process.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Dave39MD]

I agree with erichill Georgia requires a personal inspection by an officer. I don't know how they would get around it.

 

Dave

[arcticbuicks]

Automachinewerks …….I have brought many cars and classics and parts cars back from USA , removing the engine dosnt automatically exempt you from being able to cross the border with it having no title,  in fact even bringing a front clip of a car through border can require proof of serial number and ownership of the car etc . Too much to list on here and have you understand correctly .

Edited January 10, 2023 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

A good start to get correct information is to google RIV register of imported vehicles into Canada , shows what is allowed, then AES  electronic filing system to buy a car as a Canadian in US, it has come to a point crazy last years that most use a broker now 

[arcticbuicks]

And use a broker ………use a broker …..can’t stress that enough ……if you do not know the rules ……they are cheap and there will be no problem , best couple hundred $$ spent and you don’t get a fine or worse as the broker handled it for you, I was pretty good through the years knowing the ever changing rules ……and now I also use a broker, I used JJ Coleman and Rutherford customs brokers 

[1912Staver]

The RIV part is the Canadian side of the transaction. and on older vehicles rarely a problem for us Canadians. The U.S. Export requirements are what has stopped me in my tracks for any parts cars / project cars.  U.S. Customs generally states a Title is a must for Export, and parts cars / project cars rarely have a Title.

[arcticbuicks]

Yes , RIV is the Canadian side ……and can stop you in your tracks crossing the border with a non allowed vehicle ……that dosnt conform with RIV  allowed vehicles.For example if a truck has been lifted , kits cars/kits and parts vehicles,flood vehicles,hot rod ,modified , etc .........and I only mention RIV as its a good site with a lot of pointers and also contact numbers to ask and does show prohibited vehicles even if you are not required to do the RIV process,I used to bring California classics home long before the free trade agreement took affect i think was 1987 and no cars newer than 15 years old were allowed into Canada before that.Then others things got added like RIV and  stamping the titles exported......lol i still have a stack of old US titles that were just considered useless after crossing.

 

Also the border has amazing way of obtaining info of serial number etc of the parts car and with no title .....they will be checking , and you could think you didn’t break the law , but what if something shows up in the history of the border check and you claim to be the owner.There IS A REASON THE CAR HAS NO TITLE........in the past i got away with playing innocent and never fined ........that has all changed.

You can have good honest intent to bring a parts car back to Canada and trying to do it with no title , but to the border and others ……..sounds like the classic case of Canadian guys wanting to buy a no title US car , get er back whatever way works ……and then take advantage of our lax title style system to put the car on the road here , and the border isn’t clued out .Removing the engine to try and avoid the system dosnt give you a free pass.

 

Another thing i have done on a car i wanted to buy is called the border and had them run the serial number,and one did show up bad,they did not say why but said "the car will not be leaving the USA with you if you buy it"

 

Another thing some ppl still do not know is that with a vehicle you do not bypass  border of country you are leaving ...... to enter your country border with the vehicle,you have to stop at both sides, {technically ....car parts you do not have to........but a parts car with no title .......asking for trouble}.........export.....then over to the other border to import,several times i had situation where the border called over to the other to verify something.If something is not in order they will send back .

 

This may all sound complicated.......but its quite easy when you hire a broker,call your broker tell them your going to the USA to buy a car.......they tell you what to send them etc .They take care of all the proper details......and the border crossing is a breeze.

 

Now with the system in USA there is ITS/AES electronic filing system [for Candian buying bringing back to Canada } and why even i use a broker now ,and you must start the process when you buy the car in the USA,and not just a case where you simply show up at the border with the car you bought and every vehicle with a engine antique or not must have this,cars ,snowmobiles ,boats,etc,........besides the regular sending of the US title to the border crossing 72 hours ahead of your crossing [giving the border time to make sure the vehicle is not stolen etc ] I heard the first fine is $600. plus  plus and if not done proper ,the US seller can also  be hung with having to get a US federal tax number to clear things up too not knowing what they just got involved in selling a vehicle to a Canadian .........I do not know the exact details on this part to comment more.
 

Also there is nothing worse than showing up at the border and being refused or sent back to the US side , now your flagged on that car……and sitting on the side of the road refused entry , trying to find a place to store the car , so you can come home without it .lol

 

For Americans reading this ,you guys are lucky ,you can easily buy a antique car in Canada and import it into the USA and no one i know of used a broker,but need to know some basic rules,i have sold a few going south........the most recommended thing is do not take my word or anybodies word,if you do not use a broker.......call your port of entry crossing and ask ahead .

A situation i have known of more than once is an American buying a Canadian vehicle that is in the US say at a car show  .......The vehicle must be imported at a port of entry .......and it can be a sea port too i understand not just the land crossings,my friend was in California with a classic and an American wanted to buy it and they went to the LA ship yard customs office and did the process instead of coming back to Canada land crossing.

The big auction companies like Barret Jackson i understand are a different process but i do not know enough to comment.

Edited January 11, 2023 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[hidden_hunter]

9 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

Be very careful about removng a car from the U.S. There is now a very formal process for doing this, driving car or parts car. It's all in the U.S. Customs, vehicle export regulations

I need the title to export my Cadillac 5 years ago, and to an outsider it’s such a poor system.

 

We have a nation wide system to register financial interest against a vehicle (like a loan) and then ownership disputes are a civil matter

[automaschinewerks]

13 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

The RIV part is the Canadian side of the transaction. and on older vehicles rarely a problem for us Canadians. The U.S. Export requirements are what has stopped me in my tracks for any parts cars / project cars.  U.S. Customs generally states a Title is a must for Export, and parts cars / project cars rarely have a Title.

yes, i have called a brokerage company in port huron, and told me the problem isn't the canadian side, the problem will be getting past the u.s. side.  being the car is a 1928 studebaker, it's over the model year limit.

my dad trucks across the border and is familiar with all the processes,  but this is a new one.  he's brought parts back for me, which isn't a problem, but this is a little different. 

what would i do with all my spare time if i didnt get into old cars.

i guess it's too much fun!

- terry

[playswithbrass]

You need to find out where the Border Agency is if you are importing into Ontario. E.g to come through Buffalo area you go through Lewiston. I would totally recommend using a broker, there are so many forms now that need to be presented. That gets it out of the States. Then I would say  that Ontario is way stricter than they used to be. You will definitely need a legal ownership from the seller. We have just bought and so reregistered an antique vehicle here in Ontario and it was an uncomfortable few weeks hoping everything went smoothly. 

[intimeold]

We have used this type of service; and never got ripped off.

 

 

But, and a big but!  We have heard that the process all went well, until a "certain clerk, or somebody",at the DMV that you are looking to get the title, refuses to give you a title. I personally witnessed this. This particular state always issued titles, with no problems. But get a Rouge clerk at the DMV; and they cam make life miserable. And now with all computerized  files; all transactions on that title request are saved forever.  So appeals are really tricky. One person in the chain can mess the whole deal up. I have other horror stories from the DMV but will refrain from comment at this time. Some of it just makes you sick. 

 

Sometimes DMV's are under directive to take in as much Sales Tax money as they can. And the clerks let anything go by.  Yes, I got that from a DMV employee. You pay the tax we give you a title. 

 

To the poster's question! Yes this service has worked for many.  

 

[arcticbuicks]

i heard that the USA brought in the new electronic filing system as cars were leaving the USA......and they didnt know what and how they left,maybe more like through the southern borders.The fairly new system has all details right from purchase .

[arcticbuicks]

One other thing besides title i heard of twice now with friends.......is a say field car ,that has possible rodents,was a problem,Maybe good idea to clean out any rodent nests etc before heading to the border

[JACK M]

Many years ago, I bought a pretty nice car from a guy in California.

He was a snowbird from BC.

He gave me some insurance papers and told me that this is what I needed on a Canadian car.

That car ended up being a parts car as Oregon wanted nothing to do with it.

Seems the seller probably knew this as he went mia when I tried to call him.

[arcticbuicks]

In a lot of Canada the insurance papers are also the ownership papers,as there is no separate title,in my province the combined insurance registration paper i carry in glove box ,is what i sign the back of with milage and date,and new owner fills in his part........and thats it   .......BC i am not certain about ........and you likely would have been ok with your purchase if you bought it in Canada and then did the border part or possibly if you took it to the border and imported.........you did take someones word and it wasnt correct.........the seller may have been partly correct in saying the insurance papers were all you needed

[1912Staver]

I think the problem would have been that the car was not officially imported to the U.S. It sounds like the Canadian just had the car in the U.S. as a visitor. If that was the case the car would have had to be returned to Canada, and then it could have been sold to someone from the U.S. and legally imported to the U.S. A somewhat common situation on either side of the border. That is, for whatever reason a Canadian visitor to the U.S., or a U.S. visitor to Canada brings a car with them. Then something happens and the car gets left behind. It becomes a real mess as the legal owner has to bring the car back to the correct country in order for it to be sold and transfered legaly to a new owner. Many such cars just end up as parts cars as often the owner can't be tracked down or can't be bothered to tidy up the mess.

 I hope you didn't pay too much Jack.  The only way you could have sorted things out would to have taken the car back to Canada and go through the regular process like any other Canadian car purchase by a U.S. buyer.

[arcticbuicks]

In the case of a car being sold for example a Canadian car in the US.......the car dosnt have to come back to Canada .if a International Shipping sea port is closer with customs,the seller and buyer can go the shipping port if it is closer 

[JACK M]

Thanks for the comments.

This was several years ago, and I am over it.

Got stung, car no longer exists.

There was another twist, The car was indeed from Canada and the owner/seller was in Palm springs as a visitor.

The guy told me that it was his father's car. The seller was not a young man.

After thinking more about it I suspect that the guy was here taking care of his father's business so to speak as the house was for sale as well.

I drove the car home to Oregon and learned my lesson with the Oregon DMV.

Edited January 12, 2023 by JACK M (see edit history)

[automaschinewerks]

thanks for all the replies, everyone. it is interesting.  im not sure how im doing it but ill have to get something figured out.

i read on the u.s. border customs website about import/export vehicles having a junk or scrap certificate.

anybody heard of this?  and that is their actual wording, not my interpretation.  it says "junk or scrap certificate"

- terry

[arcticbuicks]

ask your broker ........but yes i have bought a car WITH junk or scrap certificate,it comes with the vehicle from say an insurance auction,where they deem the vehicle scrap or junk and will not give title,example ,flood car,a lot of these are also only sold for export.

why not just bring the parts you need back from the parts car ?

[automaschinewerks]

On 1/14/2023 at 7:38 AM, arcticbuicks said:

ask your broker ........but yes i have bought a car WITH junk or scrap certificate,it comes with the vehicle from say an insurance auction,where they deem the vehicle scrap or junk and will not give title,example ,flood car,a lot of these are also only sold for export.

why not just bring the parts you need back from the parts car ?

thanks - yes - that is going to be the last resort plan.  the owner of the car will start pulling it apart, ill have to pay him some labor, which if fine.  when dad gets over there, he would have to take a day and finish dismantling things and get loaded.

it just would be worth in the end if i had to pay to get a title so i can get brokerage company to get paperwork ready. that way i can dismantle when the car gets home so nothing gets lost or broken.

- terry

[Frank DuVal]

4 minutes ago, automaschinewerks said:

it just would be worth in the end if i had to pay to get a title so i can get brokerage company to get paperwork ready. that way i can dismantle when the car gets home so nothing gets lost or broken.

And...you get all the small bits you forgot and left on the parts car until you get back home and discover now you need to order....

And... if it is accessories, you get to see exactly where the accessory was installed originally on the parts car.

 

Shall I continue on why it is great if one can get the parts car home? Cannot always happen, though. Border, HOA, whatever. Ask around with other owners of the same car of the small parts one needs to take along with the big obvious parts.

[automaschinewerks]

some progress so far:  i called U.S. border, and what i need is a bill of sale, notarized, and email to address provided on border customs phone number.

thanks for everybody's suggestions and tips, it's always a good read, i like to make sure i've covered my bases.

- terry

[Paul Dobbin]

This is another on of those "50 States, 50 sets of rules" answer is the only correct answer.   Go to the Title Office and check before you buy anything without one.   Even Salvage Yards in Florida were asking for titles a few years ago, to junk a car.

Alabama was a non-title state and Broadway Title would register the car and send back registration an a Alabama tag.  40 years ago it worked fine, but no longer.  No Title, No Deal!

Edited February 23, 2023 by Paul Dobbin (see edit history)

[MotiveLensPhoto]

6 hours ago, Paul Dobbin said:

This is another on of those "50 States, 50 sets of rules" answer is the only correct answer.   Go to the Title Office and check before you buy anything without one.   Even Salvage Yards in Florida were asking for titles a few years ago, to junk a car.

Alabama was a non-title state and Broadway Title would register the car and send back registration an a Alabama tag.  40 years ago it worked fine, but no longer.  No Title, No Deal!

Hopefully, the dmv office you go to is like my local, decent and well informed.

[JACK M]

19 hours ago, Golden73 said:

Hopefully, the dmv office you go to is like my local, decent and well informed.

Can't say that I have ever seen this.