ANTIQUE CAR APPRAISER

[GARRET MCFANN]

Hello,

 I inherited a Locomobile from my father, who passed away. I would like to get it appraised by credentialed appraiser with an expertise in antique automobiles. Can anybody recommend someone for his job, or have any advice or thoughts on this matter.

Thank you, and I  look forward to your answers

 

Garret

[3macboys]

5 minutes ago, GARRET MCFANN said:

Hello,

 I inherited a Locomobile from my father, who passed away. I would like to get it appraised by credentialed appraiser with an expertise in antique automobiles. Can anybody recommend someone for his job, or have any advice or thoughts on this matter.

Thank you, and I  look forward to your answers

 

Garret

Garret,

 

Just like real estate, location, location, location - if you can let us know where you are located.  Additionally pictures are always appreciated and what is the purpose for the appraisal?  Insurance, estate settlement etc.   All those things will influence the answers that you will receive.

 

Don

[JV Puleo]

If you do a search on this subject you'll find that virtually all of the members here have a very low opinion of so-called appraisers. This is going to be especially true with a car like a Locomobile which was always a high end car. It is very unlikely that the average appraiser has ever seen one. That said, is it a Brass period car... pre-1915? If so it is VERY valuable. Is it a later Model 48 or 38...also very desirable. If it's a mid-20s car, made as the company was in decline, it's much less valuable although still desirable. There are people qualified to give you a price range but It's very unlikely you will find them in the ranks of the old car appraisers.

Edited June 13, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[nick8086]

Get a high appraisal. Just FYI..  It is cheaper to pay inheritance tax.  If you sell it after maybe 5 years later the gov wants 42% of your capital gains..

 

Here is my  thing.. I got the 1954 kaiser Darrin  at 69K. If I sell it at 99k. I will pay 42% on the 30K..   So 12k will go to the gov.

 

 

[West Peterson]

As mentioned, it is very important to establish value of a car that's been inherited. Classic Car Appraisal service has been appraising Classic cars since 1974. One of three companies that were consigned to appraise the Harrah collection when it split up. 

612-804-9406

[alsancle]

If the appraisal is to establish a value for purposes of inheritance taxes, then you have no choice but to use a certified appraiser.

 

If the appraisal is so that you actually know the value of your car, then the appraiser is usually worthless.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Appraisers have been debated ad nauseum in this forum and I have stayed out of the fray.  However, to blanket all appraisers as being incompetent is unfair and from my experience untrue.  I have seen wildly crazy appraisals obviously done by someone with no ethics but we have had several appraisals that came along with cars donated to us that seemed spot on.  It depends on the individual.

 

There are several Locomobile experts out there that may be able to help you if you are just looking for a guide. There ARE some very knowledgeable appraisers who do their homework and give you the best possible information on what your car is worth.  PM me if you wish I can give you some names and depending on the year of the Locomobile put you in touch with a Locomobile owner and restorer.

 

In the end, we have a saying, "a car is what one old fool is willing to sell it for and what one old fool is willing to pay for it"!   Good luck.

[60FlatTop]

This is a good opportunity to remind old car owners with one foot in the grave that it would be a generous act of responsibility to have an appraisal or some formal valuation done before the heir is stuck in this position. It appears to happen a lot.

 

An old car that was a person's toy really shouldn't matter much when evaluating an estate. Maybe 5 or 6% of the estate on the high end. If you start getting into very high percentages of the estate it seems like the person would have had some highly misplaced priorities.

 

On hiring an appraiser just use your good judgement and study up a little on body language. Some guy who shows up to appraise your Locomoblie around 55 years old wearing jeans and  T-shirt with MOPAR emblazoned on the chest probably should be escorted back to his car. You know, stuff that just doesn't fit right.

[John_S_in_Penna]

6 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

PM me if you wish I can give you some names and depending on the year of the Locomobile put you in touch with a Locomobile owner and restorer.  

That's what I was going to suggest:  someone knowledgeable

about Locomobiles, such as Tim O.  Steve, you have Tim's number,

but the inheritor, being new on the forum, can't send you a Private

Message yet.  You could provide your office telephone number.

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[alsancle]

4 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Appraisers have been debated ad nauseum in this forum and I have stayed out of the fray.  However, to blanket all appraisers as being incompetent is unfair and from my experience untrue.  I have seen wildly crazy appraisals obviously done by someone with no ethics but we have had several appraisals that came along with cars donated to us that seemed spot on.  It depends on the individual.

 

There are several Locomobile experts out there that may be able to help you if you are just looking for a guide. There ARE some very knowledgeable appraisers who do their homework and give you the best possible information on what your car is worth.  PM me if you wish I can give you some names and depending on the year of the Locomobile put you in touch with a Locomobile owner and restorer.

 

In the end, we have a saying, "a car is what one old fool is willing to sell it for and what one old fool is willing to pay for it"!   Good luck.

I said "usually worthless" but I should have reworded to say "most appraisers are worthless" if you want to know the true market value of your car.  

 

And not fair to pick out the few guys that really know there stuff,  those are the exceptions that prove the rule.

[Steve Moskowitz]

1 hour ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

That's what I was going to suggest:  someone knowledgeable

about Locomobiles, such as Tim O.  Steve, you have his number,

but the inheritor, being new on the forum, can't send you a Private

Message yet.  You could provide your office telephone number

John thanks.  A hasty reply on my part.  My office number is 717-534-1910

[Avanti Bill]

Dave Kinney is an appraiser I know and I think if he was unsure of his ability to value your car he would be the first to tell you.  He would also know who to recommend.  This is not to say you will like or agree with his number.

[locoman]

Post some pictures, please.  Also, year,model,body style, and we can go from there. Locoman

[John_Mereness]

smiller@significantcars.com (Shawn Miller) -excellent appraisals 

[John_S_in_Penna]

12 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

smiller@significantcars.com (Shawn Miller) -excellent appraisals 

 

I don't know that particular dealer, but Steve Moskowitz

can put the original poster in touch with true Locomobile

experts.

 

Always remember:  Someone who appraises a car must

NEVER offer to buy it, or be connected with that dealership,

for the appraisal to be valid.  Someone wearing both hats

would have an obvious conflict of interest.

 

"Widow Smith, I think your Locomobile is worth $25,000.

I'll buy it!"

[Pilgrim65]

Why do so many new posters , post seeking advice and are accommodated by the knowledgeable and generous members on this forum , then don’t provide any more information or simply disappear , frustrating.

[JACK M]

2 hours ago, Pilgrim65 said:

Why do so many new posters , post seeking advice and are accommodated by the knowledgeable and generous members on this forum , then don’t provide any more information or simply disappear , frustrating.

Joined up last Sunday and stayed on for 5 minutes total time.

Has not been back since.

Must have sold it already.

 

[Mark Gregush]

Or could be reading the replies without logging in? While not 100%, but is there a registry for Locomobiles and is someone by that last name listed? How about HHCA or one of the others? Of course, the last name could be made up so as not to tip their hand. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

9 minutes ago, Mark Gregush said:

...is there a registry for Locomobiles and is someone by that last name listed? 

Such a registry would be helpful, even to the inheritor,

but I don't know of any current registry.  I heard that 

the latest is decades old.

[TTR]

9 hours ago, Pilgrim65 said:

Why do so many new posters , post seeking advice and are accommodated by the knowledgeable and generous members on this forum , then don’t provide any more information or simply disappear , frustrating.

See my first comment on 

“Protection from scam when buying at a distance”

 

thread. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by TTR (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

On 6/18/2022 at 6:22 AM, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

I don't know that particular dealer, but Steve Moskowitz

can put the original poster in touch with true Locomobile

experts.

 

Always remember:  Someone who appraises a car must

NEVER offer to buy it, or be connected with that dealership,

for the appraisal to be valid.  Someone wearing both hats

would have an obvious conflict of interest.

 

"Widow Smith, I think your Locomobile is worth $25,000.

I'll buy it!"

John - Nope/a misnomer/inacurate statements (though a fair warning in some regards as there have at times been some sketchy dealers out there, just as some sketchy appraisers out there too).

 

An appraiser is fine in all aspects, thought in actuality a very solid/significant number of appraisals are actually done by dealers - accepted by all insurance companies, courts, and etc. (they just need to do them in volume and have a resume to stand behind such) - and yes, Shawn has sold plenty of Locomobiles and very active in AACA, CCCA, ACD Club, Packard Club, Cadillac Club, and etc.  Also, significantcars.com is a consignment dealership (so, excellent in avoiding potential conflict).

[John_Mereness]

Sidenote:  We are probably talking about this automobile - which if nothing catastrophic with engine should be worth more that 25K (given a cabriolet and even older restored, smaller series, and etc.).

 

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

AN APPRAISER SHOULD NEVER OFFER TO BUY AN ITEM.

SUCH IS A CLEAR CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

 

I repeat this with strength and conviction.  Naturally, an appraisal

must be objective.  It's not merely my own observation.  I understand

it is part of a code of ethics of one of the appraisal societies.

It's also stated by others, including by Kiplinger's Personal

Finance Magazine--an investment magazine--in the article linked here:

 

"You can also seek out the opinion of vendors at local flea markets and antiques shows who sell similar items, or find an established antiques shop with a good reputation.  But never rely solely on an appraisal from someone who wants to buy your item -- he or she could lowball the price to get you to sell the item for a song."

https://www.kiplinger.com/article/spending/t050-c000-s002-how-to-appraise-insure-and-sell-your-collectibles.html

 

And from Chubb Insurance, who has a specialty in expensive items:

"People often think that the way to get an appraisal is to go to the place where that type of valuable is sold. For example, if you inherited an antique collection, you might think it wise to go to an antique shop for an appraisal. Actually, the opposite is true!  Make sure you seek out an expert who does not have an active interest in purchasing your item."

https://www.chubb.com/us-en/individuals-families/resources/why-you-need-an-appraisal-for-your-collectibles-how-to-get-one.html

 

[edinmass]

It’s an interesting discussion. Appraisers are needed for tax and estate purposes. Their judgment tends to be all over the place. An appraisal really doesn’t mean much. You can get somebody to give you a quote that it’s worth 100 grand, 50 grand, or 50 bucks. A better number would be from a dealer. Problem is to get that realistic number you have to imply you wish to sell the car. As a person who buys and sells quite a few big early prewar cars, I have an opinion as to value using the photos provided. What is an actual cash value on the vehicle how it sits in current condition, and where it is isn’t terribly difficult. The number would probably be disconcerting to the owner/seller. The Pie in the Sky shoot the works number and an actual transaction number that is realistic are two very different things. It’s a neat, rare, and unusual car. I like it. That being said, most Loco buyers are interested in the earlier T head cars. 

Edited June 20, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

That being said, most Loco buyers are interested in the earlier T head cars

I'm not picky Ed.  I'll take either.  Got to start somewhere. 

 

I'm ready to set the moths free $$$,  how much we talking here.  

[JCHansen1]

21 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

AN APPRAISER SHOULD NEVER OFFER TO BUY AN ITEM.

SUCH IS A CLEAR CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

 

I repeat this with strength and conviction.  Naturally, an appraisal

must be objective.  It's not merely my own observation.  I understand

it is part of a code of ethics of one of the appraisal societies.

It's also stated by others, including by Kiplinger's Personal

Finance Magazine--an investment magazine--in the article linked here:

 

"You can also seek out the opinion of vendors at local flea markets and antiques shows who sell similar items, or find an established antiques shop with a good reputation.  But never rely solely on an appraisal from someone who wants to buy your item -- he or she could lowball the price to get you to sell the item for a song."

https://www.kiplinger.com/article/spending/t050-c000-s002-how-to-appraise-insure-and-sell-your-collectibles.html

 

And from Chubb Insurance, who has a specialty in expensive items:

"People often think that the way to get an appraisal is to go to the place where that type of valuable is sold. For example, if you inherited an antique collection, you might think it wise to go to an antique shop for an appraisal. Actually, the opposite is true!  Make sure you seek out an expert who does not have an active interest in purchasing your item."

https://www.chubb.com/us-en/individuals-families/resources/why-you-need-an-appraisal-for-your-collectibles-how-to-get-one.html

 

I wasn't going to wade into this, but John is absolutely right, and here's a real world example that I just encountered... I was recently hired by a lawyer to appraise a pretty nice 57 T-Bird for an estate. There's a bit of a story, but the short version is that somewhere along the way there was also a 59 Squarebird owned by this estate at some point in the past. The title for the 57 was lost, but among the records a title was found for a 59. The attorney didn't know the difference between the two, and thought they had a title for the car in question. No knock on the attorney- while they were studying the law, I was busy reading about McNamara's Lifeguard Design campaign and learning how to differentiate between Littlebirds and Squarebirds. Anyway, they hired an appraiser to come in, and rather than tell the attorney they had a title mess on their hands, he appraised the car as a 59, using 1959 comps and pricing guide information to come to the laughably low value of $13,000 for what is easily a mid-thirties car. His written appraisal came with a cash offer to buy the car for appraised value of course- what a generous guy! Luckily, the attorney smelled a rat and called me for a second opinion. The car is now appraised properly and they are working to obtain a correct title for the car. Make no mistake, this appraiser knew exactly what he was doing, and was seeking to deliberately manipulate the uninformed. They should not be in business.  

 

I also had another client last year trying to buy a fairly rare and hard to find Porsche and he hired me to help him vet a potential purchase. He was cagey with me right out of the gate, and pretty difficult to work with, which is really odd for me. I sent him my service contract, and he made me add a lengthy provision that forbade me from contacting or speaking with the seller at any point, and also forbade me from making an offer to buy the car regardless of whether my client purchased it or not. I was happy to oblige his demand, but not without finding out why first. Finally, I found out he had been searching high and low for this particular model and another guy he'd hired to inspect and appraise a different potential buy had worked an end around and bought that car out from under him. Another flipper moonlighting as an appraiser.

 

I'm a big believer that appraisers should not be in the buying and selling business as well, even though it happens all the time. John is also correct that there are guidelines about this sort of thing in the standards set forth in the Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice. Competent appraisers work hard to operate within those standards, while lesser "appraisers" have never even heard of the USPAP.

[Terry Bond]

Like you, I wasn't going to get involved as I have friends who appraise vehicles. They are all hobbiests.. true, anyone can hang out a sign and call themselves an appraiser. Some even"certify" themselves or get one as valuable as one cut from the back of a cereal box. Truth is, certification can mean very little. A big difference is appraisers are often called to court to testify in loss or diminished value cases. Questions about that kind of experience need to be asked when selecting an appraiser.

Terry

[GARRET MCFANN]

Thank you to everyone who answered my inquiry about recommendations for an accredited antique car appraiser for my late father’s Locomobile. I now offer the following information as requested:

 

-    The appraisal is for estate purposes as well as a baseline figure for a future sale

-   The car in question is a 1919 Locomobile Limousine. A limited number of these were made and shipped overseas for General Pershing and his staff in World War One. Our car never made it abroad and has been in California for many years and currently resides in my father’s garage. Unfortunately, the body and chassis are no longer attached and major restoration is still needed.

-  See the attached photos to see what one of these cars looked like in its day, as well as a pic of the serial number plate that was attached to the dashboard of this particular car for the specifications.

-   The plan is to invite a select group of Locomobile “experts” to have a look at the car and give us their opinions on how to proceed. We are interested in selling to someone who is going to restore it, and not let it sit around, in disarray, for another sixty years. I will be contacting  Steve Moskowitz, in the near future, as he graciously offered, for a list of Locomobile owners and experts

-        Thank you again and I will keep you posted, as the saga unfolds.

Edited June 21, 2022 by GARRET MCFANN (see edit history)

[GARRET MCFANN]

1917- 1919 LOCOMOBILE UPDATE

 

 

As was suggested, I contacted Steve Moskowitz, president of the Auto Club, and he was very helpful and informative. He recommended two accredited companies, the AAG and I.VAN for the Locomobile appraisal. He also gave me contact information for the aforementioned Locomobile expert Tim O.

 

Tim’s informed knowledge was most appreciated. Tim thought getting an appraiser to look at it, in its present condition, would be difficult. He also sent my pictures to several folks he thought may be interested in the purchase.

 

Pictures are available for your perusal  by

follow this URL link to the photos of the 1917-1919 Locomobile:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/df31ofk9ekeuaki/AABb9QE5oBizj0aIU6MOxR4fa?dl=0

 

As always , your thoughts and recommendations are always welcome.

 

Garret

Edited September 1, 2022 by GARRET MCFANN (see edit history)

[alsancle]

A very cool car,  but as a project and a post war Locomobile a very slim market.   I will PM what I think it is worth.

[locoman]

Garret,  You might want to move this topic down to the Domestic Makes and Models section of this forum.

 

Lots of Loco "experts" there.  They might be more helpful.

[alsancle]

This is where you want to