Arizona heat with 30's car

[roadmaster37]

Opinions? I have a couple of 37 Buick Roadmasters. Would like to take one to our Arizona home and leave it year round. with all the wood in the car , door frames, body, etc... would the high temps in the garage in the summer effect the wood parts? It would be sitting for 6  months during their summer months, gets pretty hot and dry. Thanks

[John_S_in_Penna]

Beautiful cars, Roadmaster!

But I'll defer to the expertise of others for your question.

But I do know that the phaetons, at least, still had wood

in their body construction.  Did the Roadmaster sedans?

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Marty Roth]

Wow !!

2 lovely Roadmasters.

My gut reaction is that the dry heat, especially covered and in a proper garage, would not harm either car, 

but that is my unscientific reaction.

 

Our heat and moisture here in New Orleans would likely not be as good for the cars as your Arizona environment, yet my unrestored 1937 Roadmaster 80C has held up perfectly and she's been here since 2009.

 

Considering the value of the cars, you may wish to consider a modest thru-the-wall HVAC with automatic temp/humidity control for your garage. Operation costs couldn't be all that much in comparison to their value, plus transporting up and back each year.

 

Enjoy - we're only here temporarily.

[Laughing Coyote]

Sitting at 80 F and 14% humidity right now at 9:00 tonight.  May is not bad for the heat, but is dry.  June gets toasty and dry.  July, August and some of September is when the Monsoon's come in so the humidity will run in the 50's to 60's range. Just food for thought.  Lovely cars and I can see why you would be concerned.

[kgreen]

Desert cars in the southwest suffer when outdoors and exposed to the intense UV light.  My car apparently spent a good amount of time outdoors and abandoned.  The results of its' exposure was that wood did fine; fabric, leather and plastic were toasted.  Since you are keeping the car under cover, most of the car should be fine as far as UV damage is concerned.

 

High temperature could be a concern for some materials.  While outdoor temps can get above 100F possibly even exceed 110F for short durations, indoor unconditioned space temperatures can be higher through conduction at roofs and walls.  Roof temperatures can attain temperatures of 180F to 200F or more with this heat conducting to the interior space of the garage.  Plastic parts are the only part that may suffer over time by warping or cracking.  The older original plastic is a soy-based product that is susceptible to heat damage.  The biodegradable plastics that you currently see advertised as sustainable are soy-based and advertised to degrade more quickly than petroleum-based plastics.  The other plastic that may degrade more quickly with high temperatures is the laminate used within the safety glass.  I'm not sure if a 1938 car would have a cellulose layer or one of Polyvinyl Butyral (PVB), which was just being introduced at about this time.  The cellulose laminate is organic and can suffer accelerated decay.  In both materials, soy-based plastics and cellulose, the degradation is not immediate, rather these materials have a shortened service life in high heat as compared to cold climates.  All this to say that decay by the hot Arizona climate is quicker than the cold north, but you may never see the results of this heat damage.

 

The more likely damage you could suffer is from the presence of drywood termites.  These little critters exist in southern and western coastal states plus Arizona.  They do not need moisture from the soil to survive; they fly through the air entering homes, garages and other wood structures looking for a place to nest and live.  They bore a small hole into the wood and destroy it from the inside.  Their damage is evident by the small hole and sawdust powder beneath the wood.

 

The old saying is that everything manmade returns to dust.  Looking beyond the possibilities and accepting that fact means that you can store your car in Arizona; it'll be fine.  The car won't last forever and neither will we.

[mrspeedyt]

At least provide shade. My 41 cad interior has much sun/heat damage especially to the interior materials. The cloth, rubber and leather are dry and brittle. As far as I know it has always been in the southwest.

[TAKerry]

I would surmise that the car will be just fine. If insulated properly, the garage will be cooler inside than the outside temps. Like said the biggest problem is the UV damage. I have read and heard about people with 'climate controlled' garages but I think that is overrated. A car is an inanimate object. It doesnt feel temperature. The results of temp change through humidity, expansion and contraction etc, yes. BUT, having a climate controlled garage is great on so many other factors. I like the idea of having a unit that can be controlled remotely from far away. 

[TTR]

Perhaps you can look at it this way:

- Any vehicle, new or old, will deteriorate over time, regardless of where or how it’s stored or used, but with proper maintenance and services, catastrophic effects of that deterioration can be minimized and prolonged.

- Good news is that any vehicle can be restored, even multiple times, so using it as much as you can and/or want during your custodianship, will not only provide more originally intended pleasures for you directly, but also helps preserve the restoration hobby in general and businesses/industry supporting it long into the future.

 

I’m paraphrasing, but “No one on their deathbed has ever been heard wishing they’d driven/used their -(insert your favorite car here)- less”.

Edited June 2, 2022 by TTR (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

Arizona, contrary to what many people think is not all hot weather. Below are the temps where I live in Arizona. So Roadmaster37, just where is your house?  

  

Month	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec	Year
Record high °F (°C)	73 (23)	77 (25)	83 (28)	89 (32)	97 (36)	105 (41)	105 (41)	103 (39)	98 (37)	92 (33)	83 (28)	78 (26)	105 (41)
Average high °F (°C)	52.6 (11.4)	55.2 (12.9)	61.2 (16.2)	67.8 (19.9)	76.3 (24.6)	87.0 (30.6)	89.6 (32.0)	87.2 (30.7)	82.4 (28.0)	72.9 (22.7)	61.6 (16.4)	51.9 (11.1)	70.5 (21.4)
Daily mean °F (°C)	38.2 (3.4)	40.8 (4.9)	46.4 (8.0)	52.5 (11.4)	60.7 (15.9)	70.3 (21.3)	75.3 (24.1)	73.5 (23.1)	67.3 (19.6)	56.5 (13.6)	45.7 (7.6)	37.7 (3.2)	55.4 (13.0)
Average low °F (°C)	23.8 (−4.6)	26.4 (−3.1)	31.6 (−0.2)	37.3 (2.9)	45.0 (7.2)	53.6 (12.0)	61.0 (16.1)	59.7 (15.4)	52.2 (11.2)	40.1 (4.5)	29.8 (−1.2)	23.6 (−4.7)	40.3 (4.6)
Record low °F (°C)	−21 (−29)	−12 (−24)	2 (−17)	11 (−12)	20 (−7)	28 (−2)	34 (1)	32 (0)	26 (−3)	13 (−11)	−1 (−18)	−9 (−23)	−21 (−29)
Average precipitation inches (mm)	1.52 (39)	1.78 (45)	1.46 (37)	0.57 (14)	0.51 (13)	0.23 (5.8)	2.69 (68)	2.78 (71)	1.64 (42)	0.96 (24)	0.87 (22)	1.45 (37)	16.46 (417.8)
Average snowfall inches (cm)	1.9 (4.8)	3.1 (7.9)	2.5 (6.4)	0.4 (1.0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0.9 (2.3)	1.4 (3.6)	10.2 (26)
Average precipitation days (≥ 0.01 in)	5.6	5.9	5.4	3.2	3.0	1.6	9.9	9.9	5.9	3.9	3.8	5.1	63.2
Average snowy days (≥ 0.1 in)	1.2	1.2	0.8	0.3	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.4	1.3	5.2
Source: NOAA[35][36]

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

13 hours ago, Laughing Coyote said:

Sitting at 80 F and 14% humidity right now at 9:00 tonight.  May is not bad for the heat, but is dry.  June gets toasty and dry.  July, August and some of September is when the Monsoon's come in so the humidity will run in the 50's to 60's range. Just food for thought.  Lovely cars and I can see why you would be concerned.

10:11 A.M Wed. 6/1/22,  Sitting at 74 degrees and 14% humidity with a high of 80 and low of 52. Temps today are above average.  

[Peter Gariepy]

I live in AZ.

The heat is really only an issue during the day in the summer. The temperatures can get to 115. But at night its more like 75. (yes, that big a swing)

Best part... 9 months out the year the weather is beautiful!

 

[Mark Huston]

The one issue you may encounter is with the gas.   My father had a collector truck (1960s International) that he would leave in Arizona when he returned north for the summer.   Every year when he went back to Arizona, for the winter, he had trouble getting truck to run.  The truck was always in perfect running condition when he left, however, it wouldn't run when he returned six months later.   The problem was with the gas being baked out of the system in the summer heat resulting in the fuel system having to be gone through each time he returned after his summer up north.   The solution was to install a gas shut off in the gas line and let the truck run until the carburetor ran out of gas.   This helped with a majority of the gas  issues when the truck was parked over the summer.   

[edinmass]

Temperature and humidity swings are not good for the car.  That being said it was bought to use. Here in Florida we have extreme heat and humidity in the summer. It raises hell with the paint and the door fit.  Yes you can actually feel the difference in how the doors open and close. On our High Point stuff it’s  in a temperature and humidity controlled  room your round. From June to mid September I rarely take the cars out unless the humidity is an exceptionally low number. Figure 3 to 4 driving days for the entire summer. Certain wood joints are more susceptible to causing problems than others. I would tend not to drive a car in the Arizona summer heat if temperatures were over 90° in humidity was over 65%. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

Stock up on Stabil to solve the gas problem. The bottle will give you the amount per gallon of fuel. Fill the tank put the stabil in Along with a few ounces of marvels miracle oil in the full tank. Drive it a mile or two to mix it up and get some up to the fuel pump and carb. Should help to stop the varnish from gas over the summer. Also only use non-ethanol gas as it doesn’t evaporate as much as ethanol. Good luck, remember only cactus, rattlesnakes and lizards survive in the dessert for very long. Goofy people (personal experience-my younger brother lives there and I know he’s nuts, hope none of you know him) think they can change it to green space. What happens when they run out of water? 
dave s 
 

Edited June 1, 2022 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[mrspeedyt]

Pfeil. Prescott. Nice. I should have moved there in the mid seventies instead of elsewhere in Arizona. Now I can't afford it. Granite dells is my favorite area of it.

Edited June 1, 2022 by mrspeedyt (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

1 hour ago, mrspeedyt said:

Pfeil. Prescott. Nice. I should have moved there in the mid seventies instead of elsewhere in Arizona. Now I can't afford it. Granite dells is my favorite area of it.

Granite Dells is five minutes from my house, but Prescott national forest is also 5 min away. There are lots of car guys up here! I'm going to a VW gathering for dinner tonight and will be going to lunch Friday with my Pontiac and Olds friends. From spring to fall a cruise or more once a week. Donut derelict cruise every Saturday morning year round- as well as the Friday lunches.

 

BTW if we happen to get a freak heatwave the temps at night would still be in the 50's-60's so you can sleep and no A/C on.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[JACK M]

22 hours ago, SC38dls said:

What happens when they run out of water? 

I saw on the news that they have outlawed grass lawns in some places.

[Marty Roth]

We have relatives who winter in Green valley (south of Tucson), but summer in Amherst Shore, Nova Scotia, making their sibling-shared New Orleans home only a month-long visit enroute twice each year. They have experienced no issues with the older Arizona car and motorcycle which are stored during the summer months, but of course not the same as an 80C.

 

I believe you'll be OK, but suggest again that you look into a separate thru-the-wall HVAC for the garage, and can be monitored/controlled remotely from your iphone. Temp and humidistat info can be valuable. Plan on using your beautiful Buicks whenever possible - life is short, and our future is not guaranteed !

[Pfeil]

4 hours ago, Marty Roth said:

We have relatives who winter in Green valley (south of Tucson), but summer in Amherst Shore, Nova Scotia, making their sibling-shared New Orleans home only a month-long visit enroute twice each year. They have experienced no issues with the older Arizona car and motorcycle which are stored during the summer months, but of course not the same as an 80C.

 

I believe you'll be OK, but suggest again that you look into a separate thru-the-wall HVAC for the garage, and can be monitored/controlled remotely from your iphone. Temp and humidistat info can be valuable. Plan on using your beautiful Buicks whenever possible - life is short, and our future is not guaranteed !

Marty, Here in Prescott I've got a 1632 sq ft shop with 30 ft  peak ceiling . It's well insulated and no heat or a/c. In summer if the doors are closed  with the highest outside temps we've ever had in ten years, the temp in the shop never goes over 69-70 degrees and in the winter the lowest temp with snowing out side is 48 degrees. BTW 48-65 degrees are the perfect temps for working on a car.   

Edited June 2, 2022 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[ply33]

While I have not lived there in a while, I was born and raised in Tucson and still regularly visit the house my parents retired to located at about 5,000 ft elevation in a community on the north side of the Catalina Mountains. So I will add my $0.02 worth.

 

On 6/1/2022 at 2:21 AM, kgreen said:

Desert cars in the southwest suffer when outdoors and exposed to the intense UV light.  . . .

 

The more likely damage you could suffer is from the presence of drywood termites.  These little critters exist in southern and western coastal states plus Arizona.  They do not need moisture from the soil to survive; they fly through the air entering homes, garages and other wood structures looking for a place to nest and live.  They bore a small hole into the wood and destroy it from the inside.  Their damage is evident by the small hole and sawdust powder beneath the wood. . .

Definitely agree about the UV light damaging cars. I hope those wonderful looking Buicks would be stored in a garage.

 

Unless things have changed greatly, I don’t recall dry wood termites being an issue in the parts of Arizona I have lived in. Subterranean termites, yes. Dry wood, no. It seems highly unlikely that subterranean termites would get into the wood of a car held off the ground by tires or a jack stand. If you want dry wood termite problems, move to California.

 

On 6/1/2022 at 10:07 AM, Pfeil said:

Arizona, contrary to what many people think is not all hot weather. Below are the temps where I live in Arizona. So Roadmaster37, just where is your house?  

 

Definitely true! The climate of the low desert (Yuma, Phoenix, etc.) is quite different than that if the intermediate altitude locations (Prescott, etc.) and different again for high elevation communities (Flagstaff, Show Low, Alpine, etc.).

 

Summer humidity will vary too. The summer monsoon moisture comes in from the south and south east. The further north and/or west you go the dryer the summer gets unless you are in or near higher mountains. Tucson gets, or at least used to get, about 1/2 of its rain in summer. Phoenix, 120 miles away and over 1000 feet lower gets a lot less summer rain than Tucson.

 

On 6/1/2022 at 10:47 AM, Peter Gariepy said:

I live in AZ.

The heat is really only an issue during the day in the summer. The temperatures can get to 115. But at night its more like 75. (yes, that big a swing)

Best part... 9 months out the year the weather is beautiful!

 

Tucson has gotten hotter since the 1950s, 60s & 70s.

 

On 6/1/2022 at 10:53 AM, Mark Huston said:

The one issue you may encounter is with the gas.   My father had a collector truck (1960s International) that he would leave in Arizona when he returned north for the summer.   Every year when he went back to Arizona, for the winter, he had trouble getting truck to run.  The truck was always in perfect running condition when he left, however, it wouldn't run when he returned six months later.   The problem was with the gas being baked out of the system in the summer heat resulting in the fuel system having to be gone through each time he returned after his summer up north.   The solution was to install a gas shut off in the gas line and let the truck run until the carburetor ran out of gas.   This helped with a majority of the gas  issues when the truck was parked over the summer.   

Sound advice to run the carburetor dry before long term storage regardless of where you live.

 

5 hours ago, JACK M said:

I saw on the news that they have outlawed grass lawns in some places.

Way back when it seemed the new arrivals wanted a yard with grass while those who had been in the desert for a few years preferred using native plants. I don’t know if that was unique to the part of Tucson I was raised in or if it has changed in recent years. I believe that Oro Valley, just north of Tucson, requires native plant landscaping. Sure makes it easier when you leave town for an extended vacation as you don’t have to worry about everything dying when the neighbor kid you hired to water your plants fails in their duties.

[30DodgePanel]

On 6/1/2022 at 11:32 AM, edinmass said:

Temperature and humidity swings are not good for the car.  That being said it was bought to use. Here in Florida we have extreme heat and humidity in the summer. It raises hell with the paint and the door fit.  Yes you can actually feel the difference in how the doors open and close. On our High Point stuff it’s  in a temperature and humidity controlled  room your round. From June to mid September I rarely take the cars out unless the humidity is an exceptionally low number. Figure 3 to 4 driving days for the entire summer. Certain wood joints are more susceptible to causing problems than others. I would tend not to drive a car in the Arizona summer heat if temperatures were over 90° in humidity was over 65%. 

Controlled storage temps/humidity are the only answer to the ideal storage situation as the expansion and contraction of wood and metal is simple physics and is completely un-avoidable no matter what part of the world one resides.

[Flivverking]

This is too funny..In 1930 who was concerned about their new car in temp swings in their locale?. There are temp swings just about every where  at anytime.

Lock your baby up in a hermetically sealed tomb or enjoy life with some faded and cracked paint(maybe?)

When you can't take the cracks any longer,paint the car...In real life..noboby(who is normal and your friend) thinks less of you because your tin old bomb  isn't perfect all the time..

Life is too short to give too much worry about cars!

Worry about people ! 

I'm an ass...this way....so sue me..