Speaking of the efficiency of the Dept. of Motor vehicles,

[R Walling]

 I recently sold a car that I had purchased new 20 years ago.

 In Ma., you must have a title  when you register a car.

 So, naturally, I registered and titled the car.  When I couldn't find my title for the new owner, I applied for a duplicate title giving the title # that was on the registration, after two months, I received a letter from the registry stating that the car was never titled, so they sent me a new title dated May 1, 2022!

 

                          WTF?

 

[30DodgePanel]

SMH,.. wow, it's amazing what the DMV is capable of depending on the rules of the day. 

That should give the new buyer a load of confidence.

 

What if you had an accident or had it stolen at some point, how would they have dealt with it? I'm sure you don't even want to think about how they would have handled that hypothetical.

[George Smolinski]

Why would you expect anything BUT incompetence from the government or it's employees.

 

Note to Admin: If this is considered political, please delete & mea culpa, I apologize.

[plymouthcranbrook]

Well, not to be any more contrary than absolutely needed I must admit to having pretty good experiences with the Illinois DMV.  Especially when some knucklehead sat on a title for 12 years without transferring it to an Illinois title. No grief, they just dug down and found a way to do it.  Of course this is the local offices, never had much dealings with Springfield. 

[m-mman]

As we have discussed about titling ancient cars. 
When people say that they “Talked to someone at the DMV and was told that it was impossible or a bureaucratic nightmare” it only means that they need to walk out and come back another day and speak to another person perhaps at a different office.  
 

It can almost always be done, you just have to keep asking different people. 

[46 woodie]

Well, if you believe in miracles I have one for you, but no one in my area believes me. When I was researching YOM plates for my '46 Ford I saw a phone number listed to be able to call the NYSDMV to see if the plate number was already issued. I called the DMV number and an agent actually answered the phone on the third ring, I actually asked him if this was the DMV! I told the gentleman my numbers and he said to give him a minute. About 30 seconds went by and he came back on the line and told me the numbers were viable and I could use the plate. In NY you are usually on hold for the DMV for 30 minutes or after a while the line goes dead.

[Gunsmoke]

Just to be clear, in some jurisdictions there is a difference between "Registration" (old school record of ownership and permission to drive car on the road) and "Title" (Deed of ownership for a vehicle). For many years in my jurisdiction (Nova Scotia) there was only "registration of a vehicle", and if you also wanted to drive it, you paid for plates. 30 years ago, when you "registered " your car, you got a piece of paper with "Vehicle Registration" on it, along with a set of plates, and you had to sign the registration and were asked to keep the "registration" in your dash for when the cops stopped you. If they were suspicious about who you were, they could compare the signature with that on your driver's license. If you sold the car, you signed the spot on the vehicle registration for selling. indicated who you sold it to, and the new owner could take that to DMV to transfer ownership.

 

About 20 years ago, they had experienced lots of cases of cars being stolen (with registration in dash, or traded, or junked etc and people coming in looking to register cars/change ownership. They realized there was a growing problem with a question of who really owned the vehicle, and was the vehicle for which plates were being given the actual car on the old registration. So they adopted a 2 part system. Nowadays, they give you 2 documents, a registration (which is in effect the plates and dash paperwork to show the cops), and a separate "Title" document that they recommend you keep in a safe place, and not in the car. Now, when selling the car you need to sign over the "Title"(deed). If someone steals or otherwise comes into possession of your car (fraudulent sale by a 3rd party), they cannot register it without a copy of the car's "Title" signed by you. 

 

Now I don't know just what happened in the case described by the OP, but in many jurisdictions I suspect over the last 25 years DMV's have gone to a 2 part system, and cars initially "registered" 20-30 years ago were never given a "Title" document. 

 

I'm restoring a 1931 Chrysler currently. When I bought it as a barn find in 2014, I got the "Title document" signed by the PO (car had not been licensed for 45 years), and took that to DMV to transfer "Title" to me, cost $10 (plus provincial tax on value of sale). However the car is not "registered to be driven" as it is not ready to be driven. By end of summer I am hoping to go in to DMV and get some plates with paperwork(which here cost about $150 for 2 years). TMI, sorry!

[NailheadBob]

I have a small 4x6 trailer and license plate expired, I did not use the trailer for 1 year, when I went to purchase new license plate the DMV said I sold trailer which I did not sell trailer,  and could not purchase new license plate even though I gave them the last license plate registration? Then I was asked if I had the title, so I went home got the title and went back to DMV and a with puzzling look on there face they stated title was not on file? I asked what did they do with it, they said it removed from there records, I asked how could this be and I needed license plate, then I was told that someone made a homemade trailer from the back end of a Ford Ranger pickup and serial number almost the same as my trailer less 1 digit. They then applied for a new title in my name and I purchase the new license plate. When I received my new title they shortened my trailer vin number by 1 digit. 

[hidden_hunter]

8 hours ago, George Smolinski said:

Why would you expect anything BUT incompetence from the government or it's employees.

Having done a stint in public service, most of the reason things end up stupidly complicated and slow is because of politicians rather than employees - it’ll be some scheme, carve out etc that makes things needlessly complex (oh these type of vehicles in this region should get a discount because it’ll help my electorate chances, that sort of thing).

 

Being government you didn’t have the luxury of just ignoring it like you might as a private company so you end up with systems and processes that are very complex 

[ChazA]

4 hours ago, 46 woodie said:

Well, if you believe in miracles I have one for you, but no one in my area believes me. When I was researching YOM plates for my '46 Ford I saw a phone number listed to be able to call the NYSDMV to see if the plate number was already issued. I called the DMV number and an agent actually answered the phone on the third ring, I actually asked him if this was the DMV! I told the gentleman my numbers and he said to give him a minute. About 30 seconds went by and he came back on the line and told me the numbers were viable and I could use the plate. In NY you are usually on hold for the DMV for 30 minutes or after a while the line goes dead.

That line is almost always very quick to answer.  They do though have limited hours, and they can only answer plate questions...nothing else.  You can also check online now for new custom plate availability, so not as many people call freeing up the line for YOM checking.  Have never had a problem with that department

[richasco]

29 minutes ago, hidden_hunter said:

Having done a stint in public service, most of the reason things end up stupidly complicated and slow is because of politicians rather than employees - it’ll be some scheme, carve out etc that makes things needlessly complex (oh these type of vehicles in this region should get a discount because it’ll help my electorate chances, that sort of thing).

 

Being government you didn’t have the luxury of just ignoring it like you might as a private company so you end up with systems and processes that are very complex 

Spot on! Government agencies have many procedures to ensure policy compliance. No one that you deal with at your DMV has anything to do with drafting policy. Can you imagine having to deal with x number of people per day who can’t or won’t fill out the basic info on a form that you are required to ensure is correct? And then you have to input that into a computer program that is only as good as the software engineers that wrote it. It’s like making a difficult repair while someone is watching you and they are thinking it would be easier if this guy knew what he was doing.

[Jim Skelly]

I've usually had good results there.  When Dad and Mom signed off the title of their old car to me, I applied for a new title in my name.  A couple of weeks later the new title came to my house in Dad's name.  I went back and an older woman who has worked there for decades said that my folks must have made a mistake when signing the title!  I said, "no, they didn't make a mistake; the woman who processed it did."  She said nothing and pulled up the title application paperwork online.  When she realized I was correct, all she could say was that I should have carefully looked over the form before signing!  They NEVER admit to being wrong.  After she made the correction, I stood there for a minute or so slowly looking over the entire form to make a point.  You would expect them to hire competent people. 

[JACK M]

4 hours ago, Jim Skelly said:

You would expect them to hire competent people.

😂

[playswithbrass]

Our 1906 Cadillac has somehow got the same registered VIN in Ontario as a riding lawn mower that unfortunately was stolen in Manitoba. As the VIN database is Canada wide, it means that when I go to renew the sticker, the VIN comes up as stolen and I have to talk to the OPP or provincial police who have to talk with the RCMP who are the Manitoba provincial police, who then advise me of a 4 hr window in which I whip down to the local Service Ontario office and get a new registration and sticker for the car. The block is valid for 5 years so I have negotiated this twice and have one more time. Trust me, it’s a process I start about 2 months early. And for some reason, all the trouble and inconvenience falls on me, although none of the problem was created by me. 

[John348]

On 5/6/2022 at 6:25 PM, 46 woodie said:

Well, if you believe in miracles I have one for you, but no one in my area believes me. When I was researching YOM plates for my '46 Ford I saw a phone number listed to be able to call the NYSDMV to see if the plate number was already issued. I called the DMV number and an agent actually answered the phone on the third ring, I actually asked him if this was the DMV! I told the gentleman my numbers and he said to give him a minute. About 30 seconds went by and he came back on the line and told me the numbers were viable and I could use the plate. In NY you are usually on hold for the DMV for 30 minutes or after a while the line goes dead.

I believe you but it is hard to believe in NYS DMV

[Larry Schramm]

We have the VW Camper that we have had for maybe 35+ years and it has been continuously licensed here in Michigan for 30 years. 

 

A couple of years ago I got a letter from the DMV that they would not renew the license for the van unless I brought the title in for them to inspect????? They issued the title when we moved back to Michigan when we got all of the car titles changed over to Michigan.  It has been licensed every year that we have lived in Michigan.

 

How does that work??

Edited May 11, 2022 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[JACK M]

21 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

We have the VW Camper that we have had for maybe 35+ years and it has been continuously licensed here in Michigan for 30 years. 

 

A couple of years ago I got a letter from the DMV that they would not renew the license for the van unless I brought the title in for them to inspect????? They issued the title when we moved back to Michigan when we got all of the car titles changed over to Michigan.  It has been licensed every year that we have lived in Michigan.

 

How does that work??

Sounds like the have found a 30-year-old mistake on their side and will probably blame you.

[Larry Schramm]

10 minutes ago, JACK M said:

Sounds like the have found a 30-year-old mistake on their side and will probably blame you.

 

Are you saying the the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing?  Some of the most unwelcome joke words are I am from the DMV and I am here to help you.  I could tell you another story where the clerk got two out of three transactions wrong and I needed to go back and get them redone.

 

Took the title in and got new plates.

[Buffalowed Bill]

During normal times my experience has been that the DMV does a reasonable job handling the millions of activities within their preview. That includes to normal run of the mill titling and licensing exercises. Often times the types of activities we old car folks present them with are unique. In any large bureaucracy standards are set by rules and regulations. Expecting everyone to know all of this rules is like handing someone a carburetor and tell him to rebuild it, ignoring the fact that the guy may never have seen one before.  

[Grimy]

19 minutes ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

During normal times my experience has been that the DMV does a reasonable job handling the millions of activities within their preview. That includes to normal run of the mill titling and licensing exercises. Often times the types of activities we old car folks present them with are unique. In any large bureaucracy standards are set by rules and regulations. Expecting everyone to know all of this rules is like handing someone a carburetor and tell him to rebuild it, ignoring the fact that the guy may never have seen one before.  

Bravo, Bill!  We should remember that DMV counter employees encounter "our kind of issues" very rarely, and probably are not trained in them.  I'd hope that at at least one senior employee in each fairly large "field office" would be so trained or experienced, but that may a bit too much to ask.  I'm fond of saying that I'd rather have a root canal than bring an old car registration or transfer issue to DMV if the vehicle has been unregistered for awhile.

 

In California, I've found that a call to the DMV Public Inquiries Office 916-657-6560 before your visit to an office is helpful.  This office is also the liaison to the Association of California Car Clubs (ACCC).  I've learned to ask for the chapter and verse of the DMV Operations Manual that pertains to my issue.  The field office personnel can key that reference into their computer terminal at the counter and obtain immediate guidance on how to resolve our issue.  Even before you call the Public Inquiries Office, download and *carefully* read Sections 5000-5010 of the California Vehicle Code which is available on the DMV website, as they contain some get-out-of-jail provisions to our benefit.  DMV field office personnel don't know and don't care about the CVC, and only go by their Operations Manual which reflects the CVC which was enacted by the legislature.  The Ops Manual is not publicly available, so the benefit of the call to the Public Inquiries Unit is in getting the specific reference in the Ops Manual which implements the provisions of the CVC.

[Rivka Lela]

1 hour ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

During normal times my experience has been that the DMV does a reasonable job handling the millions of activities within their preview. That includes to normal run of the mill titling and licensing exercises. Often times the types of activities we old car folks present them with are unique. In any large bureaucracy standards are set by rules and regulations. Expecting everyone to know all of this rules is like handing someone a carburetor and tell him to rebuild it, ignoring the fact that the guy may never have seen one before.  

And because we show up with unusual requests, it is worth looking up the state laws on vintage vehicles.  This can help an overworked underpaid clerk figure out where to look or who to talk to. I have no issues with NYS DMV or Mass RMV.  Connecticut was a pain, but it was clearly a lack of adequate space and sufficient staff there.  But I always carry a copy of the law just in case.  

[Soupiov]

When I moved to Florida a good number of years ago  I went to register my 1910 Chalmers-Detoroit at the DMV and was told there was no such car.  I had the registration from New York (NY does not title pre 1972 cars) along with confirmation of the vehicle identification number from a Florida police officer but no amount of arguing could get them to register the car.  I returned the next day with original ads for the car from 1910, current pictures of the car, my original owners manual and my charter membership in the Chalmers Automobile Registry again with no success.  At this point I was getting quite agitated and after insisting that I speak with someone less stupid I got a  supervisor who finally agreed that there was such a car but she said she still could not register it  because it was not one of the cars that were listed  in their computer system.  Apparently if they didn't list it when they computerized their system there is no way to register it in Florida.   I suggested that they could just add it to their system and was told I would have to take it up with Tallahassee.  When I spoke to someone in Tallahassee  I was told that trying to add it to their system was near impossible and they suggested registering it as an Allis Chalmers.  So, I am now the proud owner of a 1910 Allis Chalmers.  God only knows what problems I will have if I ever sell the car but at least it's registered and on the road  for now.  

[m-mman]

7 hours ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

Expecting everyone to know all of this rules is like handing someone a carburetor and tell him to rebuild it, ignoring the fact that the guy may never have seen one before.  

Absolutely! 

However its the know-it-all arrogance that is the most frustrating part.  

 

If the guy that has never seen a carb says; "I dont know, let me ask for more information about it" that would be great!

 

But taking your carb then, insisting that it is an alternator and then trying to install new gears in it, all the while telling you that you are too dumb to know what your own car part is. . . . That is the kind of stuff that DMV clerks do that makes them deserve their reputations. 

 

Then finding out that so many of the "RULES that must be followed and cannot be broken" (which do not and cannot apply to our unique situations), CAN very easily be skirted or broken by the right (knowledgeable) person. 

[Buffalowed Bill]

Then finding out that so many of the "RULES that must be followed and cannot be broken" (which do not and cannot apply to our unique situations), CAN very easily be skirted or broken by the right (knowledgeable) person. 

 

Only someone new to the system, or too lazy to do the necessary research, would consider skirting or breaking a rules. Breaking, or bending the law has consequences. The law is designed to mediate conflicts not to just be a PIA. Trying to give someone a break will often come back to haunt the perpetrator. Absolutely nobody is going to come to his defense when things begin to go sour. He learns, if he is given a second chance, that not playing by the rules will often leave him out on that preverbal limb, all by himself. 

 

Quoting chapter and verse is the only way to handle any situation where there is the potential for conflict. As Grimy indicated, do your homework and go forearmed. Don't just show up and throw yourself on the clerks mercy. You want to be part of the discussion and not the victim. Do the research. If he says something you don't agree with, call him on it and ask for his source. Not just a general source but ask him for specifics like page and reference number. 

 

 

[JACK M]

I am always amused when after trying multiple times at my local office a trip to a different office goes smoothly.

[rocketraider]

VA DMV is overall pretty efficient, and as stated a different office can often straighten out an issue.

 

When I put YOM plates on one of the 1964 Olds Starfires in 1989, it was the first one that office had ever done and there was probably an hour's worth of phone calls between the local office and Richmond. They got it straightened out though. Then I had to deal with the local police and personal property tax office. I got pulled four times in seven months for illegal plates, no inspection sticker, no city license, and on and on. That's when I started keeping up-to-date copies of the VA statutes in the cars. One young cop says "I don't care what that paper says." After he toted a scolding from the judge he started caring 😏 but I still had to pay court costs which burns me to this day.

 

My latest DMV adventure was applying for a Sons of Confederate Veterans plate for the Grand Marquis. The clerk says, "plates no longer available". Oh yeh? I already have one on the truck.

 

Took getting the branch manager involved but I got my plates. Then when they came the personalization was wrong; they'd keyed it in without a space between the words.

 

What should have read BDR RNGR (Border Ranger) came out BDRRNGR. It was more aggravation to correct it than it was worth. Surrender the plate, apply for a temporary plate($$$), reapply for the SCV plate (more $$$), hope they get the new plate right and especially hope the original mistake didn't kick the combination out as unavailable.

 

Just goes to prove anything the least out of the ordinary will throw a bureaucracy into chaos.

[Peter Gariepy]

[Max4Me]

This story is about as unbelievable as they get, but absolutely true. A few years back, my daughter moved from our home near the mountains to a place near the beach in Southern California. Because her registration was up, she decided to do a change of address as well as renew her registration. After a month or so with no renewal,  she called the local DMV and was told it was being processed. After another several weeks, with the registration now more than a month expired she was starting to sweat. It's a $250 fine for driving without current registration. Being long-time AAA members I took her to the local AAA office and explained the situation. Three employees and 30 minutes later, the supervisor came up and had the solution. Unbelievably, by moving to the beach area her registration dropped by $2. It was being held up because the DMV couldn't figure out how to refund the $2 she overpaid! AAA quickly gave her the new tag and the $2.