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For Sale: 1939 Cadillac Series 61 two door coupe - $32,000 - Lagrangeville. NY - Not Mine - Still available, same price, July 2021:


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For Sale: 1939 Cadillac Series 61 two door coupe - $32,000 - Lagrangeville. NY - Still available, same price, July 2021: see new link below:

39 cadillac model 61 two door coupe - cars & trucks - by owner -... (craigslist.org)

1939 Cadillac model 61 two door coupe, professionally restored in 2009 with only 44,000 original miles. While a similar car made by Chevy, Ford or Plymouth may have cost about 600 and something dollars this car new was $1695. This model was also featured in the 1939 world‘s fair and it was popular for its Torpedo like headlamps. This car is in very original condition. You can feel the quality of this car just by the way the doors close and latch like new. Not a ding or dent on this car. It has its original 346 V8 engine with three speed standard transmission. 39 Cadillacs also had a feature called “No Rol” or hill holder that made it easier to hold on a hill when starting out. Another feature was the rear jump seats that would swing out to the side to make extra space in the rear of the car. The paint is the original color of cavern green code 53. The tires are almost new, Coker classic 700R -16 with no dry rot at all. This car was always garaged indoors. There never was or is now any rust on the car. The chrome on the car is very nice, the flying Lady Hood ornament is the original one and also is the hood latch. This is in amazing condition for an 82-year-old car.

For more information contact me at Contact:  (518) 7-five-8-9-one-six-3
Copy and paste in your email:  a81cb44e440c342595e7d78f5deef215@sale.craigslist.org
I have no personal interest or stake in the eventual sale of this 1939 Cadillac Series 61 two door coupe.

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Edited by 58L-Y8
Still available, same price, July 2021: (see edit history)
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If memory serves me the Series 61 Cadillac shares the body shell with an Olds.......please correct me if I am mistaken. They are not on the CCCA list of approved cars. 

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Ed:  


The Cadillac Series 60 and 61 share the GM B-Body with all other corporate nameplates except Chevrolet.    This innocuous-appearing coupe is representative of Cadillac's reemergence as the best-selling American luxury marque orchestrated by Alfred Sloan and Nicholas Dreystadt.   The tale of Cadillac's potential dismissal in the nadir of the Depression does not take into account Alfred Sloan's commitment to his "A Car for Every Purse and Purpose" price/marque ladder.  He knew the economic conditions would eventual improve and General Motors could not be without a luxury marque at the top of that ladder.  The only question to answer was how to maintain and redevelop Cadillac into an appropriate configuration to continue that role.


What he also recognized was the extravagantly unlimited selections, cost-bedamned approach of Larry Fisher had to be rationalized more closely with other GM makes to return the division to profitability.   For that task, Dreystadt was the ideal individual to reign-in and rationalize to shared platforms, the 1936 Series 60 the result.  That was after the test-case 1934 LaSalle proved the concept.  


Throughout the remainder of the decade, the Series 60 and 61, greatly abetted by the 60 Special, defined and popularized the smaller, owner-driven luxury cars in the $1,700 to $2,100 price segment.  Building volume annually while Packard was focused on the lower-middle market fielding no comparable competitor, the tipping point arrived for 1939.   Packard finally awakened to the challenge, rationalized their Super Eight to the 120 platform, priced it versus the Series 61 and 60 Special.  The year-end results tell the story: Super Eight: 3,962; Series 61 and 60 Special: 11,426.


Only two more moves cemented the dominance, first the 60 Special-inspired 1940 GM Torpedo C-Body Series 62; second folding LaSalle into the Cadillac range as the 1941 Series 61, and a 12-15% price reduction for the 62.   Result: sales burgeon to 66,169.    Dreystadt accomplishes his mandate: the Sixteen, V12, multiple Fleetwood custom-series bodies: gone; replaced by one engine and chassis in various lengths, shared Fisher bodies or extensions thereof with Fleetwood upholstery and niceties.   More important, Cadillac now the primary choice for luxury car buyers and aspirational for legions of others with the highest resale value in its segment.   Most important, repeat sales momentum a springboard to greater success in the coming decades.


Series 61 CCCA recognition? No, but a far more important Cadillac series than generally recognized.


Ask a simple question, get a dissertation... 
 

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CCCA or not, it's a pretty car.  The seller has taller rear tires on the rear maybe for one of two reasons;  to give a rake and/or to help with speed on the highway.  I don't think the car looks good with the rake and it needs white walls to brake up all the black on the car.

 

58L-Y8:  Your insights are appreciated!

 

 

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51 minutes ago, deac said:

CCCA or not, it's a pretty car.  The seller has taller rear tires on the rear maybe for one of two reasons;  to give a rake and/or to help with speed on the highway.  I don't think the car looks good with the rake and it needs white walls to brake up all the black on the car.

 

58L-Y8:  Your insights are appreciated!

 

 


Good insight on the tires but disagree on the WWs.

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12 hours ago, alsancle said:


Good insight on the tires but disagree on the WWs.

I think the "balloon" fenders make the front tires look smaller than the back, especially in the 3/4 rear shot, but I'm betting they're the same all around. All the late '30's Cadillacs and LaSalles tend to look like that from certain angles.

Nice car.

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I appreciate the back story. 

 

The car is nice but not $32k nice. It's like sellers are shooting for the moon.  I can't afford a $32,000 car.  Who has that kind of walking around money except retirees?  And for $32,000 most, not all, of them are buying faster power assisted cars.  Just can't remember when the hobby got to b this point. 

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That's a sharp car. Almost as good looking as a 1937  Studebaker President coupe, and more refined mechanically. Now if it were only located and priced in Canadian dollars I'd be selling my Olds 442 convertible to buy it!

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2 hours ago, B Jake Moran said:

I appreciate the back story. 

 

The car is nice but not $32k nice. It's like sellers are shooting for the moon.  I can't afford a $32,000 car.  Who has that kind of walking around money except retirees?  And for $32,000 most, not all, of them are buying faster power assisted cars.  Just can't remember when the hobby got to b this point. 

No, we retirees do not have unlimited of money burning a hole in our pockets.  We have bills and costs of living the same as everyone else, maybe more for some aspects like drugs and health care.  And yes, I think the car is overpriced.

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I know Terry. I am 57 and need to work until 70 and then will not be able to buy a car like this. 

 

My wife and I point out that here in Des Moines, Iowa - Polk County - they keep building new $350,000 homes around other $350,000 homes and we say "who is buying these homes"?  Where are the jobs to support those purchases.  

 

I ask the same questions on cars.  Where are the buyers coming from?  There has been a slight downward correction and we all know the tired phrase "you can't restore one for that asking price" but $32,000 is a lot of money to me.  

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Very pretty, from the pictures.  Wonder what the "full restoration" included.  No idea of prewar values.  

 

Anyone else curious as to why the car has Indiana plates and is being advertised in NY?  

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15 minutes ago, B Jake Moran said:

I know Terry. I am 57 and need to work until 70 and then will not be able to buy a car like this. 

 

My wife and I point out that here in Des Moines, Iowa - Polk County - they keep building new $350,000 homes around other $350,000 homes and we say "who is buying these homes"?  Where are the jobs to support those purchases.  

 

I ask the same questions on cars.  Where are the buyers coming from?  There has been a slight downward correction and we all know the tired phrase "you can't restore one for that asking price" but $32,000 is a lot of money to me.  

You hear the same comments from all over. San Jose, my hometown, is a city of over a million, not some little tony enclave, and the average home sales price is around a million bucks. $32K is about three years' property tax on that $1M house.

This is Cadillac's smallest, lightest car for 1939, with the same 346 motor as the big boys. Someone's going to get a great driver.

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, B Jake Moran said:

I appreciate the back story. 

 

The car is nice but not $32k nice. It's like sellers are shooting for the moon.  I can't afford a $32,000 car.  Who has that kind of walking around money except retirees?  And for $32,000 most, not all, of them are buying faster power assisted cars.  Just can't remember when the hobby got to b this point. 

Again&again&again

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I may have said said this previously and maybe not; it's mindset of a lot people thinking "that old car in my garage is my retirement". I think that idea comes from watching the televised auctions with the super wealthy buying cars for inflated prices. As in the case I'm running into and have seen in this on these boards before some dealers will buy old cars for at fair market value and re-list them for sale with an inflated price.

 

This is what pisses me off; you buy that old car at some ridiculous price and find you're under water financially and you turn that first nut and now you're not only under water but now you're drowning.

 

I don't mind spending money on car that want to work on and be proud of.  But when I find I've over paid for it I am not happy. When I look at a car to buy that idea is in the front of my mind.

Edited by deac (see edit history)
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The buyer is the only one who gets to decide if a car is a good deal. If you're happy with the car you got in return for the money you spent, that's a win. Being angry later because you "found out" you over-paid, what, exactly, does that mean? Someone else's opinion is more valuable than your own? If you were happy with the car and the price until some yahoo you don't know said, "You paid too much," and now you're pissed? That doesn't make sense. The car is the same, the money is still gone, you're still enjoying the car--who cares about some theoretical abstract value in a book?

 

Buyer gets to decide how the deal goes. Either you buy it or you don't. That's ultimate power. But buying a car and being satisfied with it until you decide later that you paid too much is just an exercise in self-inflicted wounds.

 

 

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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On 6/20/2021 at 3:33 PM, edinmass said:

They are not on the CCCA list of approved cars. 

The latest newsletter says that the CCCA classification committee is considering adding these . . . . 

The 1934 La Salle too. 

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6 minutes ago, m-mman said:

The latest newsletter says that the CCCA classification committee is considering adding these . . . . 

The 1934 La Salle too. 

Oh, that old controversy goes on and on, doesn't it?   Both the 1934 LaSalle and Cadillac 60 & 61 were critical to the revival of Cadillac, far more than any of the Sixteens, Twelves or even the Fleetwood models we all love and venerate.   Whether they meet the standards CCCA has set to be granted Classic status is debatable, both were built primarily to a price target, designed, developed and manufactured to meet that objective while redefining Cadillac's place in the entry-level luxury segment.  If being a springboard to success were one of the criteria, then they deserve the Classic status is spades!

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2 hours ago, m-mman said:

The latest newsletter says that the CCCA classification committee is considering adding these . . . . 

The 1934 La Salle too. 

CeCCA. (Classic-era Car Club of America). 

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Is a 60 Special really that much more car?  Is it coachwork? 

 

In any event, nice looking car.  A very similar sedan sat here in CT for some time and a local dealer eventually picked it up, assuming same ballpark at least, condition wise the coupe is close to double the ask on the sedan.  Bodystyles matter...

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Posted (edited)

 

On 6/22/2021 at 3:35 PM, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Is a 60 Special really that much more car?  Is it coachwork?


Steve:

 

Is a 60 Special really that much more car?  

 

No, not in terms of powertrain, its completely shared with the regular Series 60.  The chassis frame is unique to the model, lower and more rigid.  The body has very little wood structure content only for upholstery tacking strips.  Oddly enough, a wood body sill is between it and the frame, probably done for vibration cushioning.

 

Is it coachwork?


Yes.  It is largely about the coachwork but what sterling coachwork design that 60 Special is!    It is the first production 3-box sedan wherein a coupe-style trunk is fully integrated with the main passenger compartment body mass (Box 1), and the greenhouse is treated as the separate entity placed on top analogous a convertible (Box 2), and the 'doghouse' hood, front fenders, everything ahead of the cowl (Box 3)    Prior to this, other than the pioneer twelve 1930 Jordan Speedway Model Z Sportman sedans,  individual custom-bodied cars such as the Duesenberg J Arlington by Rollston (Twenty Grand), the three 1931 Packard 845 Dietrich Newport sedans and sole REO Royale 8-48 Dietrich sport sedan, and Stutz Monte Carlos by Weymann, the 2-Box and/or 2 1/2 Box touring sedan with trunk attached held sway as the standard configuration.

  
But, the market was primed for something new and progressive in automotive design as demonstrated by the Cord 810/812 which garnered greater public fascination beyond the paltry numbers sold.    The design is the early work of 25 year old Bill Mitchell who initially developed it to be a sporty LaSalle but its appeal was recognized by Harley Earl to be a far greater boon to Cadillac by enticing a younger clientele.   How correct was he?   40.5% of 1938 Cadillacs sold were 60 Specials, the regular Series 60: 22.4%.  For 1939, the 60 Special still comprised 40.8% and the Series 61: 43.8%.  Just as significant, the 60 Special was approximately 20% more expensive than the regular Series 60 and 61.

   
Its ultimate influence was to establish a new body architecture configuration for the industry.    As noted in my first dissertation, the 60 Special-inspired 1940 GM Torpedo C-Body was an industry sensation and a major styling hit for GM.   All but the least responsive other automakers immediate developed their own versions.  Even style-resistant Chrysler fielded their town sedans!


Ask simple questions, get a diatribe!
 

Edited by 58L-Y8
Added: "and Stutz Monte Carlos by Weymann," (see edit history)
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7 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

The buyer is the only one who gets to decide if a car is a good deal. If you're happy with the car you got in return for the money you spent, that's a win. Being angry later because you "found out" you over-paid, what, exactly, does that mean? Someone else's opinion is more valuable then your own? If you were happy with the car and the price until some yahoo you don't know said, "You paid too much," and now you're pissed? That doesn't make sense. The car is the same, the money is still gone, you're still enjoying the car--who cares about some theoretical abstract value in a book?

 

Buyer gets to decide how the deal goes. Either you buy it or you don't. That's ultimate power. But buying a car and being satisfied with it until you decide later that you paid too much is just an exercise in self-inflicted wounds.

Matt, we’ve only said Hi to you couple of times at Hershey, and of course commented back and forth on this forum.  
 

Your comment is spot on.  Buy a car if you love it, if the money is a problem, then it’s the wrong hobby for you.  I started cars in the 1960s, money not a discussion point, but I’ve watched the decades when prices rose and fell, and the great debate on car prices began.

 

Tell you what, if one can’t afford to lose a little money, stay out of this hobby.

 

If one is willing to spend some money, get into the hobby, make priceless friends, then that’s the golden ring.  If one finds a car that rings one’s bell, price is secondary or tertiary.  Buy it, enjoy it, and the friends you make will take up the slack and then some.

 

Oh, you lost money selling it?  Who gives a flying flip? So many hobbies cost more than any return on money spent, golf and hunting and fishing to name a few….

 

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I am not anti dealer. I am just pointing out that a large segment has left the hobby and many with cars are dying off.  

 

I am often told to mind my own business when I ask how much a seller has in  car.  In this case, I can read through the lines of his ad.  He bought it "restored" several years ago.  I suspect he has no more than $20,000 in it, likely less.   

 

Let's assume for argument sake he has $22,000 in it.  He has by his account thoroughly enjoyed ownership over the past few years.  

 

Now he wants a premium for his "stewardship"   I personally just want my money back.  Seldom happened for me because I bought odd stuff.  If this were my car, I would ask $25,000 if I paid $22k.  I would then accept $19,000 or more.  

 

Matt recently sold a beautiful post war 62 series Cadillac for similar money.  The older I get the less I care about number of doors.   

 

Thankfully we get to follow some of these cars that 58Y and 6T locate and see price drops but in most cases we do not see final hammered prices.  

 

Does anyone truly believe this is a $32,000 car?   We all agree it is a nice car and would make an interesting addition to a collection but where does it end?  

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10 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

But buying a car and being satisfied with it until you decide later that you paid too much is just an exercise in self-inflicted wounds.

Whew brutal!  I was reminded today of an important idea;  don't write comments unless my thoughts are organized which they were not early this morning!

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The solution is to never, ever, sell a car, or even think about selling one. Thinking about your cars in monetary terms will make you crazy and take the fun out of the hobby. Find a car you love, buy it, keep it forever.

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Suchan, that is great advice. 

 

Harder to follow but ok if $$$ is only a part of the equation.  I go between being happy to have experienced a few very different cars to admiration/envious (not really the right word but..) of folks who have made those decades long committments.  My 40 year HS reunion is this year.  2 pals still have their cars, one is a 39 Chevy restored decades ago and the other is knee deep in a professional restoration on a 68 mustang.  Cool for sure, but mustang will be a huge expense - a labor of love.  Admirable  but in that time I have had everything from corvettes to brit sports cars, several prewar, tri five chevy, mercedes, and 60s cars.  Lost on more than were profitable but the occasional wins (68 Cutlass convert, TR6, maybe one or two others..) lessen the financial sting. 

 

My new motto - Less money talk more car talk! 👍😊

 

If you think this is an expensive hobby - Price a sleeve of Titelist DTs lately?

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6 hours ago, suchan said:

The solution is to never, ever, sell a car, or even think about selling one. Thinking about your cars in monetary terms will make you crazy and take the fun out of the hobby. Find a car you love, buy it, keep it forever.

That is great advice. In that context I coukd have had a decent 5-6 car collection over the past 40 years instead of nothing.  Could have bought and restored a car every 7 years or so or kept and improved my drivers.  

Edited by B Jake Moran (see edit history)
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I believe that I am a caretaker of my car. The car is over 80 years old and hopefully it will be around much longer than I will. I also have put much more into the car than it is worth, so I do not expect to get all of the money back out of it when the time comes to part with the car. That having been said, I believe this is a very nice car for 20 to 25 thousand. 

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  • 58L-Y8 changed the title to For Sale: 1939 Cadillac Series 61 two door coupe - $32,000 - Lagrangeville. NY - Not Mine - Still available, same price, July 2021:

If you're interested in this Series 61, I have something a bit more amazing for about the same price:

 

Cadillac1.jpg.bea2ec6c1cc8e7e6d61ca2dcea5df0ab.jpg  Cadillac4.jpg.6a7298ef14cee28c360047f6a0d7b1dd.jpgCadillac2.jpg.1acfc6e9dc108bc77dacd0c651deb00a.jpg  Cadillac3.jpg.17b762b84347c0f3519cfa853fcc8450.jpg

 

That's a 1939 Series 75 coupe. 141-inch wheelbase (that's two inches longer than my limousine). Only 23 made, same chassis and body as the V16 Series 90. Nice interior, lots of recent service, drives great, but paint is from the '60s and isn't to everyone's liking. It's going to be our next rehab project and I'm eager to see how it looks when Michael gets done buffing it out and detailing the engine. It will always be the only one everywhere you go, it's a great tour car, and man, it is HUGE.

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The model 61 is on the CLC website now, with a link to an ebay listing. With free continental US shipping.

Matt's car is spectacular.  Dated paint job? Purple with yellow polka dots would be OK by me!

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