The Car Which Shall Not Be Named III (1935 Lincoln K)

[Walt G]

I think all here reading this have to admire your patience with this project, and for every frustrating minute you are now spending may you receive and hour + of pleasurable motoring going down the road in the future with Melanie and your kids .

Walt

[JimKB1MCV]

Matt-

  I would be curious to see what the clearances between the gear and the cover or body of the oil pump  are along with any shaft  wear.

  Thats assuming the K engine has a positive displacement gear pump I've come to see as normal in automotive engines.

Thanks for the update.

[Matt Harwood]

Dropped the pan and removed the oil pump, then did some testing. To be honest, I just don't know what to think about this engine anymore. Right now, I give it maybe one chance in three of ever running again. Maybe I'm wrong, but my gut says it's worse than we thought.

 

Plenty of trash in the pan and the oil was milkshakey. Some of that I suspect is from the rather substantial blast of brake cleaner that I blew down the oil pressure gauge fitting a few days ago, so I'm not going to worry about head gaskets or cracks right now. But there was a bit of gold dust in the base of the oil pan, plus some bigger chunks in the drain pan. That doesn't fill me with confidence and I'll show you why in a moment.

 

    
There was enough debris in the oil to cause some concern. Oil was

discolored, but I think that's due to the brake cleaner I used to try

to clean out the oil pressure gauge passage.

 

Nevertheless, I pressed on and removed the old oil pump. The gasket for the pickup tube was there, so that wasn't the problem. However, the gasket between the oil pump and the copper oil manifold, which I had to make, had a tear between the main port and the upper port. Could that have been part of the problem? The opening would have been tiny pressed between the two flanges, but it might have leaked a little bit. Whatever, I made a fresh gasket with a little more meat between the two holes.

 

There was definitely a gasket between the pump

and pickup, so that wasn't the problem.

 

  
Could this tear in the gasket between the two ports have been

part of the problem?

 

New gasket should cure that problem.

 

  
Flange that feeds the oil manifold. I presume the larger port is the primary
feed, but the smaller one is the one that feeds all the main bearings. I'll have

to review how it works to determine if the gasket might have been the problem.

 

I believe that hole in the  middle of the mounting flange

feeds the cam bearings, oil pressure gauge, and

oil filter. I think.

 

There is nothing noticeably amiss with my original oil pump but given that it's all enclosed I couldn't really measure clearances. The vanes look somewhat different than those in the new pump--could they be seriously worn? That would certainly be an issue, no? Look at the innards and tell me what you think:

 

  
Old (left) vs. new pumps. Vanes look different, but are they?

 

With nothing left to lose, I installed the new pump with fresh gaskets. For reasons I don't understand, one of the mounting bolts just wouldn't tighten. It wasn't stripped, it just wouldn't bite. I ran a thread chaser through the hole and still it wouldn't tighten. WTF? Ultimately I installed a stud and snugged it down. The stud took 30 lb.-ft. of torque but felt kind of iffy. I know I didn't strip that hole last time so what went wrong? I don't know but hopefully the stud with a drop of Lok-tite on it will hold without any issues. Just another variable that will be in the back of my head. 

 

New oil pump installed.

 

I cleaned up the oil pan flange as well as the screen. I used some Permatex on the gaskets when I installed it last time, but I think I'll skip it this time. It didn't seem to do much other than make some sticky goop that I had to chase off with a wire wheel. Two layers of cork with some grease on the mounting surfaces should seal up just fine.

 

Last step was putting some pressure into it. I filled the pressure pot with about 5 quarts of fresh oil and pressurized it to 50 PSI. Then I connected it to the oil filter line that feeds the same fitting as the oil pressure gauge--a little T fitting on the back of the block fed by the camshaft bearings. I got under the engine and cracked the valve and sure enough, the engine pressurized itself (although 0 PSI registered on the gauge, which was very strange). A little bubbling and then oil started dripping from the main bearings and then from the connecting rods. A few other stray drips, too, but nothing spraying out or running out without any resistance. I took some video because I was concerned about the steady stream coming from the rear main bearing. Is it too much? Does it matter? I just don't know, but my gut says it's a problem.

 

 

So I'm not quite sure what to think here. I didn't close it back up because I wanted some feedback from guys who know more than I do--what am I missing, what else should I do, what else can go wrong? I don't know why oil pressure was low or if anything I've done will fix it. The fact that there was bearing material in the oil pan says that it was definitely having circulation problems, but I also suspect that something is up with the fitting that feeds the oil pressure gauge and perhaps just the gauge is the problem. But it moves, showing 20-25 PSI at 1500 RPM and up and 0 PSI below 1000 RPM. What is that telling me? Is it the oil pump? That main bearing that's leaking faster than the rest? I just don't know. 

 

Thoughts are welcome because I'm dead-ending. Nothing obviously wrong but plenty of clues. And my luck always means that I do a lot of work, seemingly fix the problem, yet the problem doesn't get fixed. That's what I'm concerned will happen here (I even told Melanie I don't want to put it back together because as long as its apart, it isn't broken). My experience says that I'll button it back up and it will still have no oil pressure and nothing will change.

What am I overlooking?

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Terry Harper]

Matt,

I would suggest exploratory surgery - popping the caps to see what you find. At this point your already into it and it won't get any easier than now. I would start with that rear main. Maybe something maybe not.... only one way to find out. 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Terry Harper (see edit history)

[Bloo]

I was wondering about that oil pressure gauge connection port. Does the oil have to flow through the cam to get there, in other words does it just give a squirt as the engine turns? It LOOKS from the diagram you posted that the oil flows AROUND the cam, not through it. In that case it should have pressure if the bottom end does. Now I wonder if the oil is metered by the cam as it is to the top end on some modern OHV engines. It sounds like an insane place for Lincoln to connect the gauge if so. Maybe the pressure was fine the whole time.

 

The difference in oil pump gears may be wear, or may be just post-1935 engineering. Backlash in those gears matters, and end clearance REALLY matters. Sometimes just figure eight sanding an end plate flat like new to reduce end clearance can make a massive difference in an old oil pump's performance. Since you haven't checked the internal clearances of the old one yet (at least as of your last post) I wouldn't rule out the oil pump. PS: don't run it without the pop off valve.

 

I don't know what to say about the bearing leakage. Honestly I expected much more leakage. I'm going to wait and see what Ed says before I form an opinion on that.

 

PPS: Reading back through this thread I think I should point out that the popoff valve spring pressure only makes a difference if the oil pump is 100% keeping up. Most, maybe all engines today are designed to have excess pressure and blow off the valve a little above idle, assuming hot oil. The pressure stays at the popoff pressure no matter the RPM, more or less. It falls low at idle, maybe almost zero, maybe by design, maybe due to leakage caused by wear.

 

There is another strategy though, some systems may be designed so they sort of "track" RPM, and never use the popoff valve much. Raise the RPM, with hot oil, and the pressure gets higher. It seems to track the tachometer to a point. Leakage gets worse with RPM, and eventually pressure starts to fall if you go high enough. This "just enough" approach would be more sensitive to bearing leakage, but would waste less horsepower and therefore probably heat the oil a little less. I doubt you will run into this, but in the mid 30s, at Ford, I wouldn't rule anything out.

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[edinmass]

The gasket was not the problem. The rear main dumping like that is fine. Rotate the crank 90 degrees and check it again. It will probably reduce the flow somewhat. The oil pump should easily burry the guage, and it will have plenty of volume. I’m thinking it’s a guage issue. Get a snap on guage and check pressure at the oil filter or oil gallery somewhere else OTHER than the one you are using now. Many blocks are cross drilled and have plugs stuck in them after manufacturing. You need to be certain what is happening. Pull one rod and one main cap to inspect. Only issues is old factory babbitt can delaminate but it is a risk you will have to take. Before you pop off a cap, install the pan DRY, with NO gasket, and run it again, using a guage from another location. It won’t leak that much. I’m not convinced that you pressure reading is accurate. One step at a time. Get a good remote guage, install it in a main gallery, and run it. Don’t pull caps till after you prove good pressure. Ed

[edinmass]

Matt.....pull the pressure regulator out of it, and hook up the guage there without the regulator plunger or spring .......just adapt a fitting to a Snap On guage or some other quality kit.......not some Chinese POS, and you  should get a good indication of flow............do not use any silicone sealer on any pre war engine, ever. If you have no/low pressure after taking a reading there, you will need a drink and a therapist.

Edited August 14, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

OK, that makes sense. Thanks, Ed and Bloo.

 

I was reviewing my photos and trying to figure out whether I can remove the plug on the external bypass valve and use that for an oil pressure gauge. While wondering if removing the spring and plunger will affect oil pressure, I looked at this photo:

 

 

Is that another regulator? I never noticed it before. The arrow points to what appears to be an opening in the manifold which is probably covered by another plunger and spring which opens when oil pressure gets too high. This is also the union where the external lines connect to the water pump. They all seem tied together. This is probably the master regulator while the external one is simply a bypass to allow oil to keep flowing even if it's too thick to flow through the oil cooler itself.

 

There was a drip coming from this spot when I pressurized it--perhaps this spring is a little weak? It wouldn't be difficult to take it apart and either stretch the spring a bit or perhaps even replace it. 

 

I'll get a diagnostic gauge and try to install it on the external port of the bypass valve and see how that works. I can't start it until it's off the lift, though, and I can't work on it while it's on the ground. 

So do I take it apart and see what's going on in there or no?  

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Yes, take it apart.........

[Mike "Hubbie" Stearns]

Matt, I would definitely pull the rear main to see what’s going on. Check the clearance. Dad always said that oil pressure is all about clearances. The tighter they are the more pressure you’ll have. I’m pretty sure if you were to cap off the rear main and retest with the pressure pot, you would find the next main doing the same. The clearances are out of tolerance. I don’t know what they should be. You’ll have to check a shop manual. 
 

I had a friend that was having op issues on a 76 Buick. I helped him change the oil pump he said was bad. It didn’t help. Dad and I did a complete rebuild and all was good. 
 

I’m thinking you will need to do the same thing. I know that’s not what you want to hear. With what you found in the pan, I would have the block hot tanked to make sure it all cleaned out. Mike

[Matt Harwood]

3 hours ago, Mike "Hubbie" Stearns said:

Matt, I would definitely pull the rear main to see what’s going on. Check the clearance. Dad always said that oil pressure is all about clearances. The tighter they are the more pressure you’ll have. I’m pretty sure if you were to cap off the rear main and retest with the pressure pot, you would find the next main doing the same. The clearances are out of tolerance. I don’t know what they should be. You’ll have to check a shop manual. 
 

I had a friend that was having op issues on a 76 Buick. I helped him change the oil pump he said was bad. It didn’t help. Dad and I did a complete rebuild and all was good. 
 

I’m thinking you will need to do the same thing. I know that’s not what you want to hear. With what you found in the pan, I would have the block hot tanked to make sure it all cleaned out. Mike

 

Ouch.

 

Mike, as much as I respect and value your opinion, the math stops working at that point. I paid $35,000 for this car, which is what it is worth in running, driving condition. I have now spent about $15,000 fixing it. An engine rebuild is another $35,000 and the guy I would want to do it died six months ago.

 

If I need to dump $85,000 into this Lincoln to turn it into a car, I'm scrapping it and cutting my losses. $85,000 will buy me a running, driving Lincoln K convertible.

 

That's where we are today. If this engine needs a rebuild, the car is scrap. Anyone need some new tires?

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

Went in after that regulator but I can't get a wrench on it of any kind or size. Ground off that reinforcing rib with a Dremel to make some clearance and still no-go. Removing it from the engine involves sweating tubes and removing swedged-in flanges that go through the block. No f*cking way. So the regulator does not get disassembled or checked.

 

 

I'm not pulling any bearing caps, either.

 

Either the new oil pump works and it has good oil pressure or it doesn't. If it starts and runs, it'll be a miracle and I'll be grateful. If it doesn't, then I think we're all done. There's no point in more troubleshooting or knowing what else is wrong or where the problems lie. It's absolute insanity to throw any more time and money down this hole, and that includes a $35,000 engine rebuild. If it continues to not have oil pressure, the car will get sold for scrap or crushed, depending on my mood. I'm all done at that point.

 

I've already gone way too far with this car. It's pure lunacy to keep trying. I came dangerously close to just pushing the engine off the lift and letting it smash itself on the floor. This hurts too much, it costs too much both in terms of money and emotional reserves. This car has ruined me and hurt my family. I probably can't damage it enough to equal the damage it has done to me. I just can't keep riding this see-saw, it hurts too much.

 

It works, great. It doesn't and both of us are forsaken and we'll burn together.

[Bloo]

Is there some reason you can't test that regulator with the pressure pot? It wouldn't cause your low pressure issue anyway unless it is extremely weak or stuck open. Maybe with the Snap-On gauge Ed suggested tied in?

 

If there is no way to vary pressure on the pot, maybe connect a small air regulator to it's charge port? Maybe a leakdown tester could stand in as a temporary regulator?

 

Watch what pressure the Snap-On gauge reads when the valve bypasses and really starts squirting oil. I would expect the exact pressure to be a bit ambiguous, due to hysteresis and so on, but if it was way low or way high that should stand out.

 

 

[Tate]

Perhaps you do as Cadillac Fan suggested and buy this 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1935-Lincoln-V-12-Engine-Running-Driving-Previously-Rebuilt-Condition-/363292696580?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0 
Not cheap but certainly something to consider while you work on the other engine. We’d all hate to see you give in but if it’s what you feel you must do then that just how it is. 

[Matt Harwood]

10 minutes ago, Tate said:

Perhaps you do as Cadillac Fan suggested and buy this 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1935-Lincoln-V-12-Engine-Running-Driving-Previously-Rebuilt-Condition-/363292696580?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0 
Not cheap but certainly something to consider while you work on the other engine. We’d all hate to see you give in but if it’s what you feel you must do then that just how it is. 

 

Already tried. It's sold. Don't know why the ad is still there.

[Terry Harper]

Matt,

 

Forget about dropping caps etc. Forget about the regulator. Do what Ed said. Put the pan back on without the gasket. Tap a good quality oil pressure gauge somewhere else other than where you are tapped into now. 

 

Run it and see what you get. You could be chasing a ghost or non-issue. Verify that there is or isn't pressure first above all else. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Terry Harper (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

Well, a whole bunch of sound and fury signifying nothing. More diagnostics and I'm no closer to an answer than I was before.

 

Here's what I've done:

 

Rotated the crank 90 degrees to see if that trickle of oil is diminished.

Plugged the oil filter line and small oil pressure gauge line.

Modified the oil cooler bypass valve to accommodate a very expensive oil pressure gauge and the pressure pot.

 

  

Line from block to oil cooler has a built-in bypass valve in case the 

oil is too thick to go through the cooler. It's just a plunger and a

spring. Simple and easy access with a pipe plug holding it in place.

Pressure gets too high, oil pushes plunger, bypass opens. Easy.

 

  

In order to use the pipe port at the top of this fitting as my oil pressure gauge

port as well as for the pressure pot, I needed to remove the plunger and

spring. However, that would open the bypass and since I want to eliminate

variables, I made a sleeve that would block the bypass port while

simultaneously allowing oil to flow through the fitting. Simple.

 

    
Then it was a matter of connecting fittings to the pressure pot hose

as well as the oil pressure gauge using a T fitting. It was close confines

by the starter, water pump, and water manifolds, so I had to get

creative. But it all fit and should work.

 

I connected the gauge, filled the pressure pot with oil, pressurized it to 50 PSI (which is all it will take--it has a pop-off valve), and watched.

 

Result? Nothing. Gauge barely registered any pressure, even with the pressure pot putting out (what should be) 50 psi. Oil running freely from multiple locations now. Check it:

 

 

Conclusions: either my pressure pot is shit, which is certainly possible (the pop-off valve uses some unusual threads and an O-ring, so I couldn't remove and plug it). Or the oil is just running through the engine so fast that it's impossible to build pressure. Plenty of runs from the same rear main, so no change there.

 

New plan: put it back together, start it, and if it continues to have low oil pressure, run it at WOT until a rod comes through the side of the block. That would be awesome to witness. Laugh and laugh, then crush the car. Drink myself silly and stop playing with old cars entirely because they only break your heart and steal your life. I can't take any more of this kind of frustration and pain. There are surely other hobbies that I could enjoy instead. This one sucks.

 

Sounds like a plan.

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[edinmass]

With such a small line going out of the pressure pot I think the reading on the gauge is fine. I’m expecting an engine start up that you have decent oil pressure.

[Bhigdog]

I don't think it likes your music. I always left the radio on a classical station over night for my projects. They were always well behaved............Bob

Edited August 17, 2021 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Rule number one, never,  ever play rap music when trying to diagnose an oil pressure problem! 🤪

Edited August 17, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

It's Stevie Ray Vaughan, but I'm done caring what this car likes and doesn't like. If I succeed here, it needs to run flawlessly for 15 years to make things up to me.

 

Perhaps one of you could explain to it how close it is to death--it doesn't seem smart enough to understand even though I tell it right to its face.

[edinmass]

Matt......the problem is obvious!

 

 

Play This!

 

 

[Matt Harwood]

I have a Chevy 454 and a 700R4 sitting in the storage room. Don't think I have not considered installing them in this stupid Lincoln.

[dalef62]

Try hooking the gauge directly to the pressure pot, nothing else connected to it.  That will test the pressure pot and the gauge. 

You got this Matt!  We are all pulling for you and would be there helping if we could.

[Bill Stoneberg]

41 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

I have a Chevy 454 and a 700R4 sitting in the storage room. Don't think I have not considered installing them in this stupid Lincoln.

That’s better then crushing it even if it’s not as fulfilling.

[1957Birdman]

Matt,

I want to believe that this is going to work out for you and you will have a fine running Lincoln for years. We are all certainly pulling for you and a successful resolution to this saga. That is plan A. If that doesn't work then let me offer this as a possible plan B. Donate the car to the Automotive Restoration Technology Program at McPherson College or a trade school. That way you can at least get a tax deduction and give a training auto restorer a chance get experience restoring a 1930's car.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

 

[Laughing Coyote]

Matt,

If I remember when you bought the car you could drive it, but you started to have heating issues if I'm correct due to the crack that later showed up.  My question is do you remember what the oil pressure was back then? Was there a gauge on it? What oil weight were you using? Does the timing chain cluster need to looked at again? Was there any changes that could have affected the oil system? Just putting other stuff out there. 

[Zimm63]

12 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

It's Stevie Ray Vaughan, but I'm done caring what this car likes and doesn't like. If I succeed here, it needs to run flawlessly for 15 years to make things up to me.

 

Perhaps one of you could explain to it how close it is to death--it doesn't seem smart enough to understand even though I tell it right to its face.

Occasionally I have to stand 10 feet in front of one of mine and shake a 2# hammer at it to explain exactly who is in charge here.   They can be stubborn.  

 

More seriously, I am curious as to what makes a rebuild of this engine so expensive?   

[Matt Harwood]

9 hours ago, Laughing Coyote said:

Matt,

If I remember when you bought the car you could drive it, but you started to have heating issues if I'm correct due to the crack that later showed up.  My question is do you remember what the oil pressure was back then? Was there a gauge on it? What oil weight were you using? Does the timing chain cluster need to looked at again? Was there any changes that could have affected the oil system? Just putting other stuff out there. 

 

It always had good oil pressure. Yes, it ran hot at first, but I cured that and it stayed at about 160 thereafter. Good oil pressure, never a cause for concern, at least according to the dash gauge (which is connected to the exact same port where I have my current gauge connected). With hindsight being what it is, I very much regret taking it apart--I should have just lived with the hole in the block and topped off coolant now and then and let it leak. It was never reliable, of course, but Riley and I did complete 95% of a day tour which was about 30 miles and oil pressure was fine and there were no overheating issues (one of the coils failed, which is why we went home on a flatbed). When I stupidly took the car apart, it was actually running and driving rather well other than the hole in the block. That's why the low oil pressure and overheating and poor running are so perplexing now--nothing has really changed and all the parts I removed are back on the engine as they were before.

 

I don't know what has changed or why it has such low oil pressure now other than the gauge isn't reading properly. That has to be it, unless I've damaged the bearings by running it on the test stand. Or perhaps having the engine open like it was while I was fixing the hole in the block and cleaning it up caused some problem that I can't identify, I don't know.

 

One more try tomorrow with the oil pan buttoned up and the new hyper-accurate gauge pulling pressure readings from the port on the oil cooler line. If it still fails, it's going to be a very bad day.

[edinmass]

2 minutes ago, Zimm63 said:

More seriously, I am curious as to what makes a rebuild of this engine so expensive?   

 

You have to walk a mile in his shoes......lots of parts, difficult labor operations, and a very busy family life. If I had a normal family life, I would never get things finished. 

[Zimm63]

4 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

You have to walk a mile in his shoes......lots of parts, difficult labor operations, and a very busy family life. If I had a normal family life, I would never get things finished. 

 

I get the family commitment, which explains the duration of many of my projects.

 

But, from a technical standpoint:  Is special machinery needed?  Or, is the knowledge and skills needed for this engine so rare that those with it can name their price?  

[edinmass]

12 minutes ago, Zimm63 said:

 

I get the family commitment, which explains the duration of many of my projects.

 

But, from a technical standpoint:  Is special machinery needed?  Or, is the knowledge and skills needed for this engine so rare that those with it can name their price?  

 

 

I can't comment for others. I have a labor rate that most consider excessive........but I work with a "if it's not fixed, there is no charge" rate. 

 

The biggest problem fixing ANY old car is most people can't afford to do it correctly. And by correctly, I mean so a person/shop can guarantee the work. Many people come to me with a "running problem". They have no clue their car doesn't stop, steer, shift, and ride correctly. Thus I have ZERO interest "spot fixing" any car. If I fix a running problem on a car the next thing I know is it's advertised that "Ed" sorted it and gave his seal of approval. We currently have a fantastic and unusual car we are servicing. It has been here a while waiting for it time slot. We are probably 1/3 the way through servicing it correctly for the first time in 60 plus years. It was a good car. I would now say it's approaching "great" as we get everything fixed correctly. The price would stagger you. But....we are taking a "garage art car" and turning it into a driver. It takes time. And time IS money. I was shocked to find out the local Rolls and Bentley dealer has a higher shop rate than I do. They have kids that can barley shave. I had to diagnose the big guys car when they had it for ten days and couldn't get the A/C to blow cold on the drivers side. I figured it out in less than half an hour, and have never worked on that platform before. Fact is today, 99 percent of the people working in a shop are parts changers and have very few skills. Each dealership usually has one decent guy...........I often get called in to fix things just before the lemon law kicks in and they have to buy the car back. Thats where I came up with my flat rate fix it or its no charge. It paid for a few of my cars over the years. 

 

 

Ask yourself one question when having a pre war car fixed......is the guy doing the job an owner of a pre war car? If not....it's just a paycheck to him. Guys who only work for paychecks seldom do good work. And they seldom understand the car they are working on. Send your car to the "expert" on the marque.......it saves time, money, and aggravation. You are going to pay for labor by the hour...including teaching the guy who has never seen what he is working on to learn about it. Very, very few people today can walk up to any early car and start off repairing it without doing research or damage.....very few. I often clean up other peoples mistakes. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

28 minutes ago, Zimm63 said:

Occasionally I have to stand 10 feet in front of one of mine and shake a 2# hammer at it to explain exactly who is in charge here.   They can be stubborn.  

 

More seriously, I am curious as to what makes a rebuild of this engine so expensive?   

 

I only know what the two engine builders I trust told me. One is Frank Seme, who quoted, "Maybe $25 or 30 thousand if everything is in good shape," and the other was my friend Dale Adams who passed away 6 months ago, and he merely laughed when I asked him about rebuilding a Lincoln V12. I have talked to other owners who say that $35,000 was about what they paid for rebuilds. I don't know why it's so much other than it has specialized tools and techniques. It isn't a small block Chevy. Hell, even the garden-variety 320 Buick straight-8 that's destined for my Century was nearly $10,000 and that was 15 years ago.

 

One thing I recently read but I don't know if it's true is that these engines used insert bearings from the factory. That might change things if my bearings are shot, but there's still no avoiding disassembly and machine work, and at that point you may as well do everything properly.

 

As I said, if a rebuild is in this car's future, the math just doesn't add up (it's already way out of whack and it's still in pieces). I don't love the car so much that I'm willing to invest more than twice its value in getting it to run properly. At that point it gets sold at a huge loss as a non-running restoration project or scrapped. It's not a rare, great, or worthy car, it's just a frumpy old sedan with a scruffy interior and a weird paint job. Burning even more money to keep it alive is foolhardy.

[Laughing Coyote]

Can you put a "Tee" fitting in the oil line that you are using to test with?  Use the new gauge and put the one from the car on it also and see if they read the same or different. Just something else to check. Maybe the car gauge is made special for the engine.

[billorn]

Amazing to see how many car's on this cite get pulled out of barns and just started with gas and ffresh spark plugs and have no problems and this car gets all the money and tlc in the world throwen at it and it just keeps breaking. Are Lincoln's like this known as bad cars is that why prices stay so low? Is there a design problem they have that other car's dont? All the stuff you have done to it it should be running great. I cant see what could be going wrong but I'm not a expert on these cars. Is their something else going on that most of us dont see? I'm sorry your going through all this frustration. Wish I could help somehow but this is above my pay grade.

[edinmass]

bullhorn........gas and plugs might make a car run or ruin the engine. A running car is not a reliable, safe, and pleasurable experience. A sorted car is...........

[Fr. Buick]

Love how you document and think things through.  Good luck with it all, we are rooting for you!

[Ken_P]

Matt- I feel for you. This sucks… it’s a beautiful car, and I hope it works out for you. I wish I could come help you work on it- work says I can’t, and my car is sitting in my garage torn apart, but I feel for you. Good luck, whatever happens.

[Terry Harper]

On 8/19/2021 at 8:08 PM, billorn said:

Amazing to see how many car's on this cite get pulled out of barns and just started with gas and ffresh spark plugs and have no problems and this car gets all the money and tlc in the world throwen at it and it just keeps breaking.

 

Matt can correct me if I am wrong - I think a lot of the frustration for him (as it would be with ANY owner) is  - if I remember correctly - the true condition was either miss-represented or the previous owner never drove it enough to know the difference. As Ed has pointed out numerous times - there is a vast difference between a restored car and a restored and SORTED car. Unfortunately I think the ratio of restored but unsorted cars is probably pretty high. I believe (others may disagree) a lot of it comes down to a number of problems:

 

They are seldom driven and thus the owner isn't familiar with the vehicle - how it performs, how it sounds, handles etc.  - But it looks nice. Think about your daily driver. Through routine you are very aware of any little sound or issue that seems abnormal. A slight rumble from a wheel bearing or noise from the transmission or a faint click from a CV joint for instance means a trip to the shop. But what if you were unfamiliar with the vehicle and had no idea if that was normal or not - especially and old vehicle that you would no doubt expect noises from?

 

Today we live in a "drive and forget" mode. We don't worry about packing wheel bearings or adjusting brake rods etc. or turning down a grease cup as part of a regular if not daily routine. These seemingly archaic intimate hands-on maintenance tasks are thus forgotten or deferred and things go bad. When you spend time doing these tasks on a regular basis you become very familiar with the vehicle - you become aware other things as well - is that bolt loose? There seems to be a new drip there.. etc. 

 

The other issue is a lack of comparison. How do you know your particular car is driving or performing as it should if you have nothing to compare it to? Its easy to say well its a 1920 what-ever and dismiss any short comings as being nothing but crude technology when the reality is if in top fettle it's a very nice driving, reliable and smooth running car - regardless of its age or era. I think we tend to miss-represent how good and reliable many of these old cars actually were and thus it becomes an excuse for a poorly sorted or maintained car.

 

We also live in a world were mechanical aptitude is aging out. There are few high school shop classes, few people maintaining farm equipment, fewer people, messing with or hot rodding cars while in high school or cobbling together an old car so they would have a car to drive at all. In my day (J.C. Whitney was our best friend - dual glass packs on a Corvair? The flames on the overrun where impressive) Honestly how many young people do you know today can actually clean and gap points? Even a simple repair or maintenance task may need to be farmed out and thus becomes costly and that of course means often put off until forgotten or becomes a much bigger issue.

 

Anyway, those are my thoughts. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[billorn]

You make good points Terry and I definitely didnt mean to say that Matt isnt doing a good job. I'm still just wondering why this car is so much harder to fix then others like it??? I read the first thread on this car and Ive read all of this one and his one on his Buick which was interesting to me because I'm lookking for a big Buick too. I saw his Buick in PA a few years ago and it ran sweet so I guess he knows what hes doing. It looks like Matt tried to do everythign right on this car and started with a car that was OK just with a hole in it. NOw he has no oil pressure and it overheats even tho all the hardware is new. That doesnt sound like a mechanic problem. It just made me wonder if Liincolns are harder to fix or have more "built in" problems then other cars of the same time period. Are they just bad cars and Matt is stuck with this one unknowingly or is something else wrong? He's done more work on this car then most people do on theirs and still it doesnt run while everyone else does gas and oil and spark plugs and their out having fun after a weekend of work. I dont mean to sound like I'm saying Matt isnt a good mechanic or is doing it wrong but maybe the car just has built in problems that he cant fix??? I dont know anything about these cars but it seems that doing everything right and still getting bad results maybe isnt the mechanic's fault in this case and maybe there are problems that were built in from the beginning?