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The Car Which Shall Not Be Named III (1935 Lincoln K)


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Well, Matt, I just think you need to buy another car. Continue enjoying the Lincoln on tours and have fun with it. But I think you need to get an American Austin or a American Bantam Roadster. Then you can take and park it next to the Dusenburg in the Auburn and give them back a little bit of what they gave you. 
 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/5/2023 at 2:35 PM, Matt Harwood said:

Today I found the taillight lens that I've been needing since I bought the car. Heart-stoppingly expensive. I'm debating whether I want to try to install it in the parking lot tonight before the car is judged tomorrow or do it in the safety of my own shop instead of a parking lot. Hmmm...

 

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This lens must qualify:

Craig

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5 hours ago, theconvertibleguy said:

So spent most of my drug-induced-insomniac morning reading this epic thread and it is a work of heart. So much detail, especially on a car that most of us will never see, much less drive. It's been an excellent read, and a reminder of why I should never buy a fixer upper :D

 

They are ALL fixer-uppers.........even the 100 point Pebble jobs............

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2 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

They are ALL fixer-uppers.........even the 100 point Pebble jobs............

 

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

This.   Every car needs constant love and maintenance.  Even the proven tour cars.  They are only that way because of the effort put in to them.

I dont know if the reason why I cant' see how even a concours would need that is from ignorance or stupidity, and at this moment, I'm concerned it could be both. But that's a bit OT.

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It's very simple. American car collecting is all about appearance...paint, upholstery, sexy body styles etc. There is little or no emphasis on mechanical condition and, as long as cars are being toted about on trailers to "show" them, about 90% of the collectors out there don't care how they run or drive. Matt did not buy a "fixer upper"...he bought a restored car, supposedly "tour ready." In fact, you'd probably be safer with an unrestored car that has never been mucked with than with a large percentage of the restorations out there.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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This is a sad commentary on the state of the hobby. For my part, I have always put more emphasis on having my cars running well first before I put the time into fixing the cosmetics. I am proud of the fact that I can hop into my car and make the 2 hour drive to Hershey each year from Rockville, Maryland without major problems. I am also pleased that I could, if asked, confirm that the headlights, turn signals, wipers, and horn work as they are supposed to. I drove to Knoxville, Tennessee for a national T-Bird convention and put over 500 miles on my car in one day. I would never recommend that for a car that has not been sorted out.

 

The fun in the hobby is about driving our cars and I am glad that Matt stuck it out to end up with the fine driving car that he has now.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

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I think we need to distinguish between prewar cars and post war cars.   Post war cars typically have a much greater source of correct usable and reliable parts.   Also, there are many more qualified mechanics for post war cars.   Sorting a postwar car can absolutely be done.

 

Prewar cars a different kettle of fish.   Parts and expertise are much harder to find.   The cars are more complicated.    The amount money you need to spend to bring it back to "new" is a lot more.  

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33 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Prewar cars a different kettle of fish.   Parts and expertise are much harder to find.   The cars are more complicated.    The amount money you need to spend to bring it back to "new" is a lot more.

EXACTLY - this does not mean that collectors should be "scared " of pre war cars. Once correctly and properly sorted they will go for decades with the usual checking of things : spark plug gap, oil, grease, proper amount of air in the tires etc. The 1931 Franklin I restored in the early 1970s I drove over 40,000 miles never had a problem. Have never owned a trailer nor a truck to tow same. Owning and driving a pre war car is also a matter of attitude - respect the age, and the fact it will not respond like a newer car will -  it will work well to the way it was designed and will not be difficult to drive if you handle it properly.

Edited by Walt G (see edit history)
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8 hours ago, 1957Birdman said:

This is a sad commentary on the state of the hobby. For my part, I have always put more emphasis on having my cars running well first before I put the time into fixing the cosmetics. I am proud of the fact that I can hop into my car and make the 2 hour drive to Hershey each year from Rockville, Maryland without major problems. I am also pleased that I could, if asked, confirm that the headlights, turn signals, wipers, and horn work as they are supposed to. I drove to Knoxville, Tennessee for a national T-Bird convention and put over 500 miles on my car in one day.

I'm of the same school and most heartily agree. 

 

The sad fact is of two cars, one being mechanically right but scruffy looking and the other with gorgeous cosmetics but un-sorted mechanically, the second car seems to always bring more $$$ at sale time. It seems the average old car owner would rather have a good looking car that might leave them stranded, lol.

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10 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

I think we need to distinguish between prewar cars and post war cars.   Post war cars typically have a much greater source of correct usable and reliable parts.   Also, there are many more qualified mechanics for post war cars.   Sorting a postwar car can absolutely be done.

 

Prewar cars a different kettle of fish.   Parts and expertise are much harder to find.   The cars are more complicated.    The amount money you need to spend to bring it back to "new" is a lot more.  

AJ is spot on...but I wouldn't say the pre-war cars are more complicated (at least most of them). They are just different and if you (or whoever is doing the work) doesn't know how they worked there is very little chance of fixing them so that they do work. They are not amenable to simple "parts changing" because most wear parts simply aren't there or are very difficult to find. (And if you do find a part its likely to be just as worn out as the part you have.) I'd go so far as to suggest that brass cars and nickel era are a great deal simpler than anything from the late 20s on but they require a lot of imagination and specialized knowledge of HOW they are supposed to work to sort properly.

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The difficulty with pre war cars depends on the brand. A Pierce Arrow has five times the parts of a Buick. And they are HEAVY. We won't mention cost.........and extra parts means lots more labor time....and more stuff to go wrong. Open up the engine of a Stearns-Knight sleeve valve eight. It only has 52 bearings in it..........and 24 connecting rods, among other entertaining issues that will give you religion. Rolls Royce is three times worse than a Pierce........stay away unless you're Bill Gates and have a money spending fetish. 

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On 10/25/2023 at 11:34 AM, edinmass said:

 

The difficulty with pre war cars depends on the brand. A Pierce Arrow has five times the parts of a Buick. ...

I'm working on a Buick, before that was a post war Ford truck.  I was marveling at how many more parts the Buick had over the Ford, your 5x ratio is probably pretty close.

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2 hours ago, DonMicheletti said:

You really cannot compare different makes on the parts count.

Or size difference.

 

There's an Isetta lover here who has 4 or more restored examples.  He always warns anyone interested in restoring an Isetta is no less expensive to restore than a Camaro or a Mustang.

 

Craig

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Does anyone recognize this car?

 

2023-10-2812_24_36.jpg.b31bf6837e53830a665a917a1fedc9c3.jpg 2023-10-2812_24_47.jpg.6c28d09774a9507cfe88a2566d2d9290.jpg

 

We were going through some photo albums that were donated to our club and I found these photos. It's a 1935 K on the long 145-inch wheelbase. It's obviously not a factory body with the split windshield and suicide doors (plus the fender marker lamps, which weren't standard equipment), but I don't know anything else about it. The date on the photo is 1984 and the photo was taken at Stan Hywet Hall in Akron at the Father's Day car show. Sorry for the low quality photos, I just snapped them with my cell phone to post.

 

But it sure looks familiar, no?

 

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On 10/23/2023 at 7:58 PM, JV Puleo said:

It's very simple. American car collecting is all about appearance...paint, upholstery, sexy body styles etc. There is little or no emphasis on mechanical condition and, as long as cars are being toted about on trailers to "show" them, about 90% of the collectors out there don't care how they run or drive. Matt did not buy a "fixer upper"...he bought a restored car, supposedly "tour ready." In fact, you'd probably be safer with an unrestored car that has never been mucked with than with a large percentage of the restorations out there.

 

On 10/24/2023 at 7:07 AM, 1957Birdman said:

This is a sad commentary on the state of the hobby. For my part, I have always put more emphasis on having my cars running well first before I put the time into fixing the cosmetics. I am proud of the fact that I can hop into my car and make the 2 hour drive to Hershey each year from Rockville, Maryland without major problems. I am also pleased that I could, if asked, confirm that the headlights, turn signals, wipers, and horn work as they are supposed to. I drove to Knoxville, Tennessee for a national T-Bird convention and put over 500 miles on my car in one day. I would never recommend that for a car that has not been sorted out.

 

The fun in the hobby is about driving our cars and I am glad that Matt stuck it out to end up with the fine driving car that he has now.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

I agree with Lew. JV, your comment is a gross generalization of a hobby that stretches much wider than showfields. I'd personally say the opposite in regard to your 90%. Most people drive their cars as opposed to trailering them. If you pay attention to the headlines and look at all the showcar photos, I think you can get a skewed idea of what Americans do with their collector cars.

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I certainly hope that is true. I confess that I don't even think of post-war cars...or even late pre-war cars as being "collectible" so  I should have qualified my statement. My notion of an "old car" is at clearly at odds with the AACA definition. That said, we have several ongoing threads here where enthusiasts like Matt are working to make a so-called "restored" car actually driveable.

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11 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Does anyone recognize this car?

 

2023-10-2812_24_36.jpg.b31bf6837e53830a665a917a1fedc9c3.jpg 2023-10-2812_24_47.jpg.6c28d09774a9507cfe88a2566d2d9290.jpg

 

We were going through some photo albums that were donated to our club and I found these photos. It's a 1935 K on the long 145-inch wheelbase. It's obviously not a factory body with the split windshield and suicide doors (plus the fender marker lamps, which weren't standard equipment), but I don't know anything else about it. The date on the photo is 1984 and the photo was taken at Stan Hywet Hall in Akron at the Father's Day car show. Sorry for the low quality photos, I just snapped them with my cell phone to post.

 

But it sure looks familiar, no?

 

2023-06-1713_41_14a.jpg.cdb78626a33e4b1e182215a15f335e09.jpg

 

 

Hmmm.  Split windshield, suicide doors, AND what looks like fabric front seat.  I'm guessing a 3-window Berline by Judkins.  If so, Model 309-B.  They only made 13, so if this car still exists it should be pretty well-known, I would think.

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I was getting anxious not having projects to do, so I decided to install my outrageously expensive taillight lens. Not a big job, but one that presented its own set of challenges. I pulled the old taillight lens, which is just some flat plastic lens from a different car, and with it came the chrome bezel. The lens is held inside the bezel with a rubber gasket that both secures the lens and seals the lamp. The rubber was pretty crispy so I gently removed the gasket using a small metal hook and lots of patience.

 

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Lens is held in place with rubber gasket. With a little patience

I was able to get it apart without hurting anything. You

can see the differences in the lenses. I'm glad to have the

right part, despite the cost.

 

The rubber was pretty brittle, so I soaked it in a rubber conditioner that I also used on my running boards. I let it soak overnight and today there was considerable black gunk in the solution so I guess it worked. The rubber was a lot more flexible, but it was also a little sticky and seems to have swollen up a bit. That might be good for helping it seal and stay flexible in the future, but it was not so good for coaxing it back into place. But again, with a little patience and some small tools, I was able to get the new lens and gasket into place. Then it was simply a matter of reinstalling the lens on the car, which is also a bit challenging since the screw is on the bottom of the light housing and it's impossible to put a screwdriver on it--I have to use one of those right-angle screwdrivers that's a total pain. Anyway, I succeeded without breaking the lens.

 

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Before and after soaking the gasket in conditioner.

 

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Gasket was flexible and soft again, but

a little swollen.

 

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Gasket and lens in place.

 

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Finished.

 

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Installed.

 

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Finally two matching taillights!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Who would have thought that in mid-November in Cleveland I'd be driving an old car? Melanie and I took the Lincoln to the Ohio Region CCCA annual meeting. Had a nice lunch, did some club business, and took a few photos with friends. Our Lincoln and Bob Brown's 1937 Packard Twelve (interesting car without sidemounts) were the only old cars in attendance, which was surprising. Melanie drove home, which was lovely.

 

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As long as the weather is nice, I'm going to try to drive it over to Frank Seme's shop this week and let him try it out now that it's fully assembled and driving--he did a lot of work rebuilding that engine and deserves to take it for a victory lap. We'll see if the weather holds...

 

 

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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Great to see and read about the event! the Metro Region CCCA had a car collection tour and luncheon several weeks ago. I went as a guest since I no longer am a CCCA member and it was so very nice to see people again in person of the Metro region that I had not seen in years. Thanks to Dave and Linda Kane and Steve and Susan Babinsky for opening up their collections for the visits. Great time with down to earth people not distracted by a concours , don't touch, etc event. Real cars and more important REAL PEOPLE.

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19 minutes ago, Walt G said:

Great to see and read about the event! the Metro Region CCCA had a car collection tour and luncheon several weeks ago. I went as a guest since I no longer am a CCCA member and it was so very nice to see people again in person of the Metro region that I had not seen in years. Thanks to Dave and Linda Kane and Steve and Susan Babinsky for opening up their collections for the visits. Great time with down to earth people not distracted by a concours , don't touch, etc event. Real cars and more important REAL PEOPLE.

I want to go to a few tours next year , I am a member of the ccca metro region and Long Island sound region. I just love seeing these true classics . I just wish these car saw more day light .  I also always wanted to see Steve Babinsky shop , 

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Another beautiful mid-autumn day here in Cleveland, so I took the Lincoln to visit Frank Seme at the machine shop and let him see the end result of all his hard work. Frank, Greg, and Julie were really pleased with the car and I took Frank for a ride and even he was impressed by how well it pulled up hills. I lugged it down to about 5 MPH and it pulled cleanly, like it always does. He didn't expect that. I was glad to finally get to show him the car--Frank says that most guys take their stuff and leave and they never hear from them again, so I didn't want to be that guy. Plus it was an easy 50+ miles round trip on surface streets, although I seemed to hit every single red light along the way. Still, can't complain about an old car outing in mid-November. A nice drive.

 

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It also verifies that the engine runs exactly 100 degrees hotter than ambient--it's about 48 degrees and it ran the whole way at about 150. The cooler weather was obviously better for oil pressure, which hovered around 30 PSI when I was on the roll and about 10 PSI at idle. Those are acceptable numbers, but I'm still going to try a few things over the winter to bring it up. Frank was a little concerned, but he agreed with the assessment that the pump is surely moving a lot of oil, but there are many places to lose some pressure inside the engine. He said he could tighten the bottom end a bit, but I don't think that's necessary--if it hasn't blown up by now (I put almost 1400 miles on it this summer), it probably won't. As long as I keep good oil in it, there shouldn't be an issue.

 

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50+ easy miles. It's nice to be able to just

jump in the car and go without a second

thought.

 

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All the vitals were good.

 

 

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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  • 3 months later...

Well, it's March and I've been slacking all winter. No car projects, no home remodeling, just taking it easy for a while. Actually, the main reason I haven't done anything is because I have to replace the packing in the Lincoln's water pump to stop that persistent leak, and I knew that job would SUCK. Procrastination time is over, time to get busy.

 

I fired up the Lincoln and it started without much drama. A little more cranking than I expected, but it's been dormant since November. But it ran properly and I pulled it into the back of the shop and put it in the air on jack stands. First thing I did was drain all 7 gallons of coolant, which was easy thanks to the drain on the bottom of the water pump, which is the lowest point in the cooling system. 

 

Second thing I did was start loosening the oil cooler lines while it was draining. With hindsight, I know this is a mistake. Oil dribbled out of the lines and into the fresh, clean coolant in the pan. So I guess I'll buy some fresh coolant and No-Rosion and refill it with fresh stuff. Idiot.

 

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I honestly did not expect there to be oil in the 

lines. It contaminated the coolant. I'm so stupid.

 

Then I removed the coolant manifold that feeds the engine blocks as well as the lower radiator hose, being careful to leave the sleeve on the water pump intact--I fixed that leak with gasket shellac and I don't want to deal with it again. 

 

Once I had all the extraneous stuff out of the way, I loosened the three nuts holding the generator in place and reverse bench-pressed the assembly out of the car--it must weigh 70 pounds!

 

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Generator and water pump removed.

 

With the assembly on the bench, I removed the two bolts holding the water pump to the generator, then I removed the fiber disc on the drive shaft and pulled the water pump off the generator. They came apart remarkably easily. 

 

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Water pump came apart surprisingly easily.

 

With the water pump by itself, I could tap out the woodruff key on the shaft (which promptly shot off into orbit but I was VERY lucky to find it), then remove the packing nut. I cleaned everything up and hooked up my drill to the shaft using some heater hose and used a Scotch-Brite pad to clean up the shaft a bit. I'm not 100% satisfied with the results, but I'm not sure I want to use anything more aggressive like sandpaper. It's a bit pitted for some reason

 

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Water pump shaft is a bit pitted. Do I go more

aggressive to try to clean it up? And note the

woodruff key slot--I was lucky to find the key

when it vanished as I was tapping it out.

 

Anyway, the whole reason I'm doing this is because I had to replace the packing, which I couldn't do with the pump in the car. There just wasn't enough room to slide those little graphite rings in there. This puzzled me because we were able to do it successfully in the past. You might recall that Melanie actually coaxed the packing in there back when we first got the car.

 

PinkMechanic.jpg.d1af1402c6da817b88d29b526c27a5c5.jpg Really.jpg.d84ab1db2fb2790058b05db43c718c5e.jpg

Melanie was able to install fresh packing--why won't it fit now?

 

I pulled out my box of water pump parts and had a look at the original water pump packing nut--sure enough, it's considerably shorter.

 

2024-03-0215_34_39.jpg.17f2a712cf87ff6bd0a81152458d0126.jpg 2024-03-0215_34_30.jpg.d23eb21e7d52fdc82553451e62f6b69f.jpg 2024-03-0215_34_46.jpg.22af607f05e595bd17bad408e03610b5.jpg

New packing nut (left) is a lot larger than the original (right).

 

It seems they made a new packing nut when they rebuilt the water pump and didn't use the original as a guide. Not only is it longer, it takes a 1-1/16" wrench where the original is only 1". And that explains why I could never back it off far enough to get the packing in there.

 

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That's why I couldn't get any

packing in there.

 

So this is a lot of words to say I took the thing apart and found a mistake that made it impossible to replace the packing in the car. At the moment, I'm planning on using the original nut when I put it back together which will hopefully allow me to install fresh packing in the future without removing the water pump. My only concern is that the original nut is a bit beat up and doesn't fit quite as snugly to the shaft--the tolerances on the new nut are a little tighter. I think with packing in there, it will be a non-issue. 

 

All I need now is a 1-inch water pump wrench. I have a 1-1/16 wrench for that new nut, but, of course, it won't work with the original nut. Off to eBay...

 

Tomorrow I'll install fresh packing, put everything back together, and we'll see if the leak is fixed. I'll have to wait a few days for my No-Rosion and anti-freeze to arrive, but hopefully all the leaks will be solved. Then I can move on to the little projects that will be more enjoyable.

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Matt can you get a pad to absorb the oil out of the antifreeze?  Like they use in rivers and creeks to absorb oil spills from the water?  

I agree with Mike, maybe have the newer packing nut turned down to work.

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On 10/23/2023 at 4:58 PM, JV Puleo said:

.......... you'd probably be safer with an unrestored car that has never been mucked with than with a large percentage of the restorations out there.

 

 

Well said !   Outstanding illustration of the change....when what WAS a hobby for people who, with their own hands, enjoyed the technical aspects of the machines they thought enough of to collect....to today.....it's just a business to so many current participants.

PACKARD Kingman arch.jpg

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Installed fresh packing in the water pump. I'm fortunate that the Lincoln uses the same 5/8" water pump shaft as a Ford Model A, which means I can use these wonderful little graphite rings that are already pre-cut and ready to install. I slid one into place, snugged down the packing nut, then removed the nut and did the same with the second and third rings. I'd hoped that I could get four rings in there, but the threads wouldn't grab so three it is. Yes, don't worry, I clocked them so the gaps were 180 degrees apart.

 

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These nice little graphite rings sure make re-packing

a water pump easy.

 

Once I had it re-packed, I went to reunite it with the generator and realized that the water pump paint is pretty beat up. Some of that is from removing it and some is just from all the work I did trying to fix that leak and re-pack it when it was still on the car. So I decided to repaint it. A little masking, some primer, and it was ready for a few coats of gloss black. Unfortunately, this also meant that I wasn't going to get it reassembled today.

 

2024-03-0315_20_34.jpg.b7b05c944b34328612b8a5c5df77f960.jpg

Primed and painted the water pump so it

will look its best back in the car.

 

Since I was still feeling ambitious, I made some gaskets for the water manifold and oil cooler lines. Eventually, I think I might try to modify the oil cooler lines and actually install an air-to-oil cooler up in the front of the car rather than the loop that goes through the water pump. Maybe keeping the oil at a lower temperature will bolster my oil pressure. But that's a project for another day. For now, I just made gaskets to put it back to stock.

 

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New gaskets ready to go. I've probably made these seven gaskets

about nine times during my time with this Lincoln.

 

I'll finish the water pump job later this week and get the Lincoln back on the road. I have a few other things to do in preparation for driving season, including an oil change and some clean-up under the car. And the Buick has a few needs, too. Guess I need to get busy...

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It's unfortunate that this photo can't convey the amount of work that was required to reach this point:

 

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Water pump and generator are back in place.

 

To get to this point, I had to reunite the generator and water pump on the bench, which was pretty easy. The fiber disc between them was a bit of a fight, but it eventually relented and it was a solid assembly once again. Then I had to get it back into the car, which is easier said than done. You might recall that last time I did this, I didn't have a hood or fenders or sidemounts or fuel pump or fuel lines to contend with. Well, this time it was a bit of a challenge. I first tried bench pressing the assembly up into place from below, but could not both hold it in place and rotate the generator so that it would align with the drive spur. So I called Melanie to come to the shop for an assist and we used the cherry picker to pull it up into place. She raised it up and I guided it into position. That took about two hours and still required a lot of muscle, so once it was secured we went home. I'll finish it up tomorrow by reinstalling the manifolds and oil cooler lines.

 

While the generator was on the workbench, I noticed this little knob on the regulator for the first time. I have no idea what it does. It's clearly meant to be turned by hand since it's knurled. Could it adjust the generator's output? The manual makes no mention of it. Thoughts?

 

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What do you think this knob does?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, I finally found the time to finish putting the water pump back together. Life kept getting in the way. I bought some thinner gasket stock for the oil cooler lines in hopes that they would be easier to install. And they were technically easier, but still far from easy. Eventually I got everything bolted together and sealed up.

 

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Two oil lines. Four bolts and four nuts. Took two

days to install them.

 

I also noticed that one of the head studs was leaking coolant, leaving a track mark on the cylinder head, so I removed it and added some sealer on the threads. Fortunately there was no struggle and the ARP studs have provisions for an Allen key on top, so they're easy to remove. Once it was back in place, I re-torqued all 58 head nuts to 60 ft-lbs. Some were a little loose the rest were right on spec. 

 

Once it was all back together, I filled it with 7 gallons of water, and, of course, while doing that the stupid godd@mned hood fell. AGAIN. It's an incredibly poor design with no secure place to hold it in the open position. And in falling, it yanked itself loose from the center mount on the firewall, so I have to figure out how to fix that next. At least no paint was ruined this time. I wish I could find the guy who designed the hood and kick him.

 

Anyway, I fired it up and oil pressure was good and it didn't leak. No water pump leak, no lower radiator hose leak, no water manifold leak, all good. Of course, idling in the shop for 15 minutes isn't the same as a 55 MPH drive on a 90-degree day, but I'm optimistic that it'll hold. I'm very glad I changed the packing nut so I never have to do this job again. What a monumental task just to replace water pump packing. Next time should be easier (famous last words?).

 

Tomorrow I'm going to put it on the lift, clean up the underside a bit, maybe figure out how to fix that hood (I bet we'll need three people for that because the stupid thing weighs 150 pounds). I'm also going to change the oil with some SAE 50 synthetic to see if I can bolster oil pressure a bit. It's supposed to be dry tomorrow so maybe I'll even take it for a drive. We'll see...

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Regarding the hood problem, I had a similar issue on the 34 Packard. I found out there were two rubber bumpers on the rear of each hood side that supported the open hood and used friction to keep it from slipping and falling. All of these were completely gone! I found replacements at Steele Rubber and the hood stayed put when it was open.

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