1912Staver Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) I would have to agree that it is the attitude of a number of electric owners I have come in contact with that I find objectionable. The loud signal, "I am doing my part to save the planet, you are still part of the problem ". Here in British Columbia we do generate a very good percentage of our electricity with hydro electric. So electrics are somewhat more enviro friendly than gas. But we in British Columbia are a tiny drop in the global bucket when it comes to power production. Electrics ; as far as I can tell at least , are not the savior of the planet. Perhaps fractionally better than gas and diesel but really no more. The problem as proposed requires a vastly larger solution. And once a person spends that $35,000 - $100,000 + on an electric I get the impression many of them really think they have done their bit. And then fly away to a vacation with a clean conscious. If things really are in the state that climate scientist's are saying our entire world is going to have to radically change if things are going to remain close to the current conditions. Not just a lukewarm switch to a slightly better vehicle power source. Just the energy consumption ramp up over the last 15 years for computers has to erase any possible gain in vehicle climate impact. The WWW, data farms, eats up electricity in a huge way. Very few aspects of modern life are good for the planet. Greg in Canada Edited November 22, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maok Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) 'A long journey starts with a single step.' It would be useful if we all took that step and not shout at the 'cripple' who is not keeping up. Edited November 21, 2019 by maok (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 The number of a$$holes to good people who walk into my shop is about 6:1. I deal with jerks all day every day. I'm getting pretty close to chucking it all and going back to a desk job it's getting so miserable dealing with people who buy old cars. Nit-picking, crybabies, complainers, litigators, and just plain jerks who treat me like dirt because of what I do for a living. It gets harder and harder to pick up the phone when it rings because more often than not, it's going to be some rude guy who thinks I owe him the world because he wants to buy a car. Worst guys are Model T guys, to be honest. But I don't hate those of you who own Model Ts just because you own Model Ts. That aspect of your personality doesn't define you, does it? Should that be the lone criteria by which I judge you--what you drive? What kind of man would I be if I did that? So here I am, not assuming that all old car people are jackasses, despite some compelling evidence to the contrary. Be bigger than your biases. You're all better than what I'm seeing here. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Luddy Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said: The number of a$$holes to good people who walk into my shop is about 6:1. I deal with jerks all day every day. I'm getting pretty close to chucking it all and going back to a desk job it's getting so miserable dealing with people who buy old cars. Nit-picking, crybabies, complainers, litigators, and just plain jerks who treat me like dirt because of what I do for a living. It gets harder and harder to pick up the phone when it rings because more often than not, it's going to be some rude guy who thinks I owe him the world because he wants to buy a car. Worst guys are Model T guys, to be honest. But I don't hate those of you who own Model Ts just because you own Model Ts. That aspect of your personality doesn't define you, does it? Should that be the lone criteria by which I judge you--what you drive? What kind of man would I be if I did that? So here I am, not assuming that all old car people are jackasses, despite some compelling evidence to the contrary. Be bigger than your biases. You're all better than what I'm seeing here. Well Matt not all old car people are a$$hats, just a very vocal percentage. Model T guys are really bad, I concur. Almost worse than Corvette guys. I love the instant torque of electric vehicles but I suffer from extreme anxiety about recharging, so I'm out...for now. Like you I deal with old car customers, just not at your level. I do envy the fine iron that you have for sale, but agree how soul destroying most of the lookyloo's, cry babies and total morons who expect me to cater to ridiculous requests. Multiply by X 100 is where you are, so I do understand. My condolences! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 4 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: I take it that you've met every single person who owns an electric car? Don't know, what are the outward signs to look for other than the vehicle? Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 a) frizzy hair from the radiation ? Really noisy electrically. b) how about external combustion ? - can use natural flammables even firewood or biodiesel (or gasoline) - flash boilers eliminate the delay - range is not an issue particularly in Florida c) Aztek looks better now than when it was new d) Had a 3800/4T60E Dustbuster for about a decade. Great road car and even towed a Reatta about 250 miles home on a dolly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepher Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 When battery tech make some serious leaps and you don't have to worry about range so much, and when used battery disposal is more environmentally friendly, then I might look at a pure electric car. But as it sits now, there is no way a pure electric would work for my needs. And since I really have no need for an electric car and because I value personal freedom I really resent the govt trying to force me into purchasing one. Range anxiety can be solved with some creative solutions. One such thing I thought of is instead of waiting to charge your battery pack, there would be service stations that would quickly remove your entire battery pack and swap in another one. Of course, the auto maker would have to design their car to support this. Battery packs should be able to be changed in 15 minutes or less. But the stations would charge you a fee based on various factors such as the age of your existing battery pack, brand, etc. Service stations would warranty the battery packs based on those same factors. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 47 minutes ago, zepher said: And since I really have no need for an electric car and because I value personal freedom I really resent the govt trying to force me into purchasing one. They are trying to assert you have no freedom to emit CO2 as you travel about. You would be classified as a criminal emitting pollutants. So there is no "personal freedom" to commit that criminal activity. Our city council has just now banned the use of natural gas in new homes. If you want to build a new house it would violate code for it to connect to gas or to have gas appliances. https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/10301069-181/santa-rosa-moves-forward-on Starting in early 2020, plans for most new Santa Rosa homes likely won’t include natural gas stoves, fireplaces, furnaces and water heaters. The Santa Rosa City Council on Tuesday voted 6-0 to require the exclusive use of electric appliances in most new residential construction below four stories. The measure, which will need a second vote of approval and the California Energy Commission’s backing in the coming weeks, will put the city in the company of Windsor, Berkeley and other local governments across California that have passed a type of natural gas ban in the name of curbing climate change. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, mike6024 said: They are trying to assert you have no freedom to emit CO2 as you travel about. You would be classified as a criminal emitting pollutants. So there is no "personal freedom" to commit that criminal activity. Our city council has just now banned the use of natural gas in new homes. If you want to build a new house it would violate code for it to connect to gas or to have gas appliances. https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/10301069-181/santa-rosa-moves-forward-on Starting in early 2020, plans for most new Santa Rosa homes likely won’t include natural gas stoves, fireplaces, furnaces and water heaters. The Santa Rosa City Council on Tuesday voted 6-0 to require the exclusive use of electric appliances in most new residential construction below four stories. The measure, which will need a second vote of approval and the California Energy Commission’s backing in the coming weeks, will put the city in the company of Windsor, Berkeley and other local governments across California that have passed a type of natural gas ban in the name of curbing climate change. Any updates on the powerlines dropping and starting forest fires? Bob Edited November 22, 2019 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) It is said to have been a "broken jumper" on a high voltage tower. Not finalized investigation yet, but I believe it. Our recent fire, and the bigger one last year in Paradise, California were both failures on high-voltage transmission lines, not regular power lines, so that is concerning. The high voltage lines are not supposed to be failure points, and all the vegetation below them is clear cut. The "jumper" is the little diagonal wire in the high-voltage picture. The other picture is just a regular power pole in the dry oak trees. Those power lines were shut off during the high winds, 50mph +/-. Edited November 22, 2019 by mike6024 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) Tesla reveals Cybertruck, a 6-passenger pickup featuring 3 motors, armored glass, and up to 500 miles of range Bryan Logan (blogan@businessinsider.com) Nov 22nd 2019 3:55AM and as a tow vehicle..................will it compete with my f150??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Edited November 22, 2019 by mercer09 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 It will be a lot easier to find in the parking lot than your 150! Certainly not your typical design. Photos on the internet now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 I have no problem spotting my 06 F250 Superduty now, unless it's parked behind a Semi. When it has the capability to compete , price, power and towing capacity as well as range with the conventional Diesel pickups offered, then it might stand a real chance of success. Judging the way trucks are going, price wise, if Tesla builds a truly competitive pickup in all but the price categories, it will be double the 80G sticker price a Diesel truck runs. The reason I'm still driving an 06, plus I hate all the new gadgets. Still going to be hard to market it to rural farmers, jobbers, Contractors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryankazmer Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 The quick change battery packs are not a new idea - it would require an infrastructure. The idea is that it would be like getting a new gas tank for your grille. It would also require standardizing the battery pack across vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 From what I could just find , The 2 versions, including the throwback to the offspring of a late night spent between a Pontiac Aztec and a Delorean with a couple cases of Valvoline 1 resulted in this love child. (Now I know where the designer of the Aztec spent his retirement) The other looks like a home concocted version. It's going to be a tough sell to truck guys but not to Yuppies in the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Interesting observation, seeker. Spot on. Results in look only a mother could love. A lot of folks love them but I never really liked the Delorean design very much, and not sure anyone liked the Aztec... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlier Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 30 minutes ago, auburnseeker said: From what I could just find , The 2 versions, including the throwback to the offspring of a late night spent between a Pontiac Aztec and a Delorean with a couple cases of Valvoline 1 resulted in this love child. (Now I know where the designer of the Aztec spent his retirement) The other looks like a home concocted version. It's going to be a tough sell to truck guys but not to Yuppies in the city. I am guessing that this "truck" will have a LOT of cameras to make up for the BLIND Spots. Will adults be able to sit in the back seat as the roof angle seems to cut into headroom pretty much. Not a lot of frontal crash area. VERY tough sell to truck guys given the 7500 lb towing capacity which is 3500 lbs less than the Rivian EV truck coming out and 5500 lbs less than some current Ford, GM and Dodge "1/2 ton" trucks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachJC Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Am I the only one who has read this thread and thought that if be back this up 120ys that there is some real similarities between this debate and what went on in the early 1900 with the invention of the cars that we all love and drive and because of, take part in this great forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 The red truck is a home made version. DIY El Camino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 It will be a lot easier to find in the parking lot than your 150! Certainly not your typical design. Photos on the internet now. MY 5 YEAR OLD COULD HAVE COME UP WITH A BETTER DESIGN- FINGER PAINTING! LOL 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Any photos of the crash tests on that thing? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 This is a must-watch video. Catch the glass demo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Mustang SUV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Have they posted info on how Fire Department rescue teams can open the handle less doors? I never had a problem with door handles on cars or homes. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Throw a steel ball at the window, we know from the video that will work😀. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maok Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Will Arnie be the first to order one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepher Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 On 11/21/2019 at 2:00 PM, Billy Kingsley said: My main problem with electrics is that they seem to be purposely designed to be devoid of anything amounting to style. I want a car that makes me smile when I look at it, not one that has the personality of a washing machine with wheels added. I have to be honest, I generally don't care what kind of engine is in a car. As long as it's capable of moving under it's own power, that's good enough for me. What I care about is how it looks. Does it look pleasing to me? For 99.9% of electrics, the answer is no. The only one I've seen and like is the Rivian...and that's not even actually available to purchase yet! (My photo, from this year's New York International Auto Show) I like the looks of that. A unique nose design, with even more unique headlights. This has a character, it's got style. I could look at this and have some sort of reaction, and a positive one at that, unlike just about every other electric. (Keep in mind, that the Edsel is one of my all time favorites, so unique is something I'm drawn to) I generally don't travel on long trips all that often, with 4 hours one way being the longest I do every year. The medicine that keeps me alive dictates I have to stop and eat every 5 hours so having to stop and recharge the car could be done while I'm "recharging" myself, so the range is not really a factor for me. Even when we took a family trip to Toledo last month, which ended up with a road trip to Illinois, the longest we drove on any part of the trip without stopping was 4 hours and 12 minutes. The Cataclysm scenario wouldn't matter all that much either, as I'm not all that healthy, I'd be one of the first to go. So It really wouldn't matter. If you were to throw, say, a Detroit Electric, Studebaker electric, Baker Electric, etc. in front of me, I will absolutely stop and take notice. From what I've seen of the Rivian, this is the only EV that even comes close to sparking my interest. (pun intended) 10,000lb towing capacity and it looks like it was actually designed to be practical, not just an F U to the evil oil companies. It is a far more practical design for everyday use. They really need to get moving with producing them, I bet they would sell a ton of them, especially given what Tesla just vomited up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 On 11/22/2019 at 1:39 PM, mike6024 said: https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck Will my local Ikea have it in stock shortly? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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