Electric Mustang SUV is Ford playing with Fire with brand name ? ?

[TerryB]

When all that gas is gone and the power doesn’t work and the evil axis has killed all the computers at least the horse will still run without a need for all that stuff.  The most reliable backup is the horse, get yours now before the rest of the world catches on and the prices start going up for good used horses!  Horse exhaust also makes good fertilizer so you won’t starve.   I think I just talked my self into getting an original “Mustang”.

 

[auburnseeker]

The problem with horses is storing the horse power. 

[TerryB]

4 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

The problem with horses is storing the horse power. 

I thought it was the exhaust 🤔

[1912Staver]

6 hours ago, Car-Nicopia said:

I’ll guess the number of people in this thread who have purchased a new Mustang in the last ten years or will purchase one in the future  is somewhere between 0 and 1.

Here where I live ; British Columbia , Canada, the Gov. introduced very tough anti speeding measures 3 years ago. 40 KMH { 24.8 MPH} over the posted limit gets you a one week instant roadside vehicle seizure , second offence one month. Plus a  big extra expense on penalty points when you renew your insurance. First three years have seen over 7000 seizure's each year. 7600 so far for 2019. We only have barely 5,000,000 people so that's a pretty serious number of roadside seizures. Now the Gov , is talking about outright vehicle forfeiture for repeat offenders.

Who would buy a Mustang that you are compelled to drive like a Isetta? I like to drive fast and live close to my local track and auto - x site, so a reasonably cheap race car serves my needs. But a current Mustang ,Corvette, Hemi etc. just paints a bullseye on your back. 

 

Greg in Canada

Edited November 19, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[8E45E]

In the dark days of the mid-to-late 1970's and early 1980's when we saw cheap J-body Cavaliers made into Cadillacs and Pinto-based Mustangs, it is safe to say that Mustang did make a healthy recovery where Cadillac did not.   As long as Ford still continues to do R&D and keep producing piston-engines fueled by gasoline, there should be nothing to fear.

 

Craig

[72caddy]

7 hours ago, Car-Nicopia said:

I’ll guess the number of people in this thread who have purchased a new Mustang in the last ten years or will purchase one in the future  is somewhere between 0 and 1.

Make that 1. I have a 2015 Mustang GT convertible.  Agree with the name reuse here , but I have to admit if they put that electric power in the current Mustang body and the range really was 300 miles...count me in. 

My GT only has a 15 gallon tank. If I can keep my foot out of it, that 300 range would equal the GT  on my best behavior .... which is impossible with almost 500 hp under the hood (yes, slightly enhanced)

[Matt Harwood]

1 hour ago, auburnseeker said:

I don't know,  from the choice of cars I have made,  I would fit that segment of the hobby pretty well.  I avoid resto rods and more reliable easy to get parts for stuff in favor of the challenge. Why do you think i sold the Ford.  I could order the whole thing from Drake.  Now the Dodge a little more challenging.  The Cord ,  alot more, especially on a budget.  

 

Of course the real reason for old cars is because we don't want to pull up to the light with the same exact car as every other guy.  Just like you mentioned about the Chrysler wagon at the Woodward dream cruise compared to the Charger, Mustang crowd that flowed by in a steady stream. 

 

You are the choir leader preaching to the choir.

 

Nevertheless, one of the most significant factors in the sun setting on this hobby are those very same modern muscle cars. Young and old buy them because they offer the same benefits: comfortable, fast, air-conditioned, affordable, and low maintenance. Plus, they are welcomed at at least 80% of the car shows out there because somehow people have been convinced that a new car is somehow collectable and interesting and something people want to look at. Why drive an old car that needs to be fussed with, parts sourced, suffered with on hot days, a target in traffic, too slow to get where you're going with everyone else? Why bother when you can lease a modern muscle car for $400 a month and go to all the shows at 80 MPH in air-conditioned, power-steering, satellite stereo, leather-lined comfort? And if you crave individualism, well, there's a whole aftermarket catalog available right there in the dealer's showroom to outfit your brand new collector car with the same old-school wheels everyone else has and the same old-school decals everyone else has and the same old-school spoilers everyone else has. Individualism is dead, if it was ever even a reason at all for driving an old car. People  are lazy, short-sighted, small-minded, eager for a quick fix, and unwilling to do any more than the bare minimum, which usually involves nothing more pulling a credit card out of their wallet. Challenge? Nobody wants a challenge--why do you think all new video games have EZ mode? These modern muscle cars are ideal for our society. A bloated, plastic, low-rent facsimile of something we used to enjoy. Just look at how they fight over the first edition and pay thousands over sticker, when the second year version will surely be faster, more comfortable, and cheaper. Oh, it's because the first one is supposed to be collectable. That's the joke. Don't you get it?

 

You aren't blazing a trail by driving old cars, you're just walking backwards on the trail made by all the people leaving old cars for new ones. 

[1912Staver]

50 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

In the dark days of the mid-to-late 1970's and early 1980's when we saw cheap J-body Cavaliers made into Cadillacs and Pinto-based Mustangs, it is safe to say that Mustang did make a healthy recovery where Cadillac did not.   As long as Ford still continues to do R&D and keep producing piston-engines fueled by gasoline, there should be nothing to fear.

 

Craig

 

Pinto's don't get nearly enough respect. The engines are great. At least once you trim 1200 lbs from the vehicle they are attached to. My engine is currently out and apart but this is what my relatively inexpensive Pinto { 2 litre sohc Ford} powered track car looks like. Lap times are only fractionally slower than the huge HP Mustang's around my local { fairly short } track. A fraction of the cost to buy and run. The Mustang guys spend more in a year on tires than my whole car cost.

[72caddy]

The charging time will drop significantly. Range will increase. Agree having enough infrastructure to support mass adoption is a major challenge but there are already major agreements in place with car companies and infrastructure engineering companies to build this out. Most of the technology is around it is just not commercially viable. Case in point, Diesel locomotives are actually using electric motors to move all that weight down the track. The engine is just for electric power and isn't connected to the drive wheels. This has been this way for decades because it is really easy to sync the motors in a daisy chain or with locos at both ends. That pulsing you hear, and sometimes feel, is the current in the electrics (some diesel added in).

[Hans1]

Ford was and is looking for "white box's"  to fit into.

 

It is always a very calculated risk to develop and enter an open space. ( white box )

 

 

 

 

 

 

[auburnseeker]

Matt for old cars dieing you seem to have alot of sales at very strong prices from what I have generally seen in all the probably thousands of ads I peruse every day. Can't be too many people fleeing in huge numbers or you would have alot more stagnant inventory.  Unless of course I'm missing something.  I don't buy the hobby just gasped it's last breath and all the old cars are unwanted lawn art now. Just a correction in supply and demand that probably has been long overdue. 

[1912Staver]

I was just looking at a article about the new E Mustang.  The thing has a massive interactive screen built right in to the dashboard. How is this not distracted driving ? Does the screen shut off when the vehicle is in 

motion ? Lately our rather overzealous enforcers of the law have made the evening news for tickets that cite cell phones on charge in center console cup holders. If the phone is even within the view of the driver it is apparently an offence

regardless of if it is being used or not.  An owner of this Ford technology would seem to be committing a rather expensive offence every time they drive the thing.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited November 19, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

16 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

You are the choir leader preaching to the choir.

 

Nevertheless, one of the most significant factors in the sun setting on this hobby are those very same modern muscle cars. Young and old buy them because they offer the same benefits: comfortable, fast, air-conditioned, affordable, and low maintenance. Plus, they are welcomed at at least 80% of the car shows out there because somehow people have been convinced that a new car is somehow collectable and interesting and something people want to look at. Why drive an old car that needs to be fussed with, parts sourced, suffered with on hot days, a target in traffic, too slow to get where you're going with everyone else? Why bother when you can lease a modern muscle car for $400 a month and go to all the shows at 80 MPH in air-conditioned, power-steering, satellite stereo, leather-lined comfort? And if you crave individualism, well, there's a whole aftermarket catalog available right there in the dealer's showroom to outfit your brand new collector car with the same old-school wheels everyone else has and the same old-school decals everyone else has and the same old-school spoilers everyone else has. Individualism is dead, if it was ever even a reason at all for driving an old car. People  are lazy, short-sighted, small-minded, eager for a quick fix, and unwilling to do any more than the bare minimum, which usually involves nothing more pulling a credit card out of their wallet. Challenge? Nobody wants a challenge--why do you think all new video games have EZ mode? These modern muscle cars are ideal for our society. A bloated, plastic, low-rent facsimile of something we used to enjoy. Just look at how they fight over the first edition and pay thousands over sticker, when the second year version will surely be faster, more comfortable, and cheaper. Oh, it's because the first one is supposed to be collectable. That's the joke. Don't you get it?

 

You aren't blazing a trail by driving old cars, you're just walking backwards on the trail made by all the people leaving old cars for new ones. 

AMEN!  Well stated!   This distills perfectly my very thoughts every time I attend one of the local car shows or cruise nights blighted with legions of new muscle cars as if they're something worthwhile in which to be interested.   They're shown by narcissistic poseurs as the vehicle (no pun intended) to display their wealth and 'coolness'.   In every case, their 'special' current car is quickly replaces with the latest, greatest and newest when it appears. 

[1937hd45]

2 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

AMEN!  Well stated!   This distills perfectly my very thoughts every time I attend one of the local car shows or cruise nights blighted with legions of new muscle cars as if they're something worthwhile in which to be interested.   They're shown by narcissistic poseurs as the vehicle (no pun intended) to display their wealth and 'coolness'.   In every case, their 'special' current car is quickly replaces with the latest, greatest and newest when it appears. 

I would hope they get reserved special parking, far easier to walk buy them all as a group, than to see them mixed in with ones I like. Bob 

[Frank DuVal]

On 11/18/2019 at 6:01 PM, joe_padavano said:

And, yeah I want to see your 500 gallon underground home gasoline tank. Good luck with that.

 

I bought my 81 Cadillac Eldorado Diesel from a guy with a 500 gallon home oil tank that supplied most of the fuel for the car's first 100 K miles!😄  Plus it heated his very large home ( the tank, not the Eldorado.

 

I'm not sure a 500 gallon gasoline tank would fit in a residential setting as well! Now, a farm with old equipment, YES! I did some construction work on a farm with both 500 gallon diesel and gasoline tanks, above ground.

 

NO above ground gasoline tanks at fuel stations around here. Everything underground. Except for the LARGE tanks at the end of the pipeline (Newington, VA).

Edited November 20, 2019 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)

[Frank DuVal]

On 11/18/2019 at 7:33 PM, 8E45E said:

it is safe to say that Mustang did make a healthy recovery where Cadillac did not.

 

??? I see lots of Cadillacs on the road around here. Way more than Mustangs. Why would you think Cadillac did not recover? Is it because they never went low in sales to begin with, therefore could not recover what was never lost?🙄

[edinmass]

FYI - according to AAA, cold weather driving drops electric car range from 25 to 40 percent depending on how cold it is outside. Thus, a “Mustang” has a range of 180 miles in winter cold driving at full charge. When I was living in Massachusetts, the cold weather would affect the car 25-35 percent of the YEAR. Electric cars are being pushed to consumer consumption faster than the market demands.......and history tells us this NEVER works out in the short run, and is usually a bad financial decision in the long run. Time will tell. As for me, I shall never own one in my future as far as I can determine. With more and more oil and natural gas being discovered every year......it’s going to be 50 years before the big push to go electric becomes a better economic decision than oil.

[mercer09]

You are probably too young to remember the 1970s Arab oil embargoes.  No natural disasters and still there was little or no oil to be had to make fuel.  Any kind of disaster, natural or man-made, can disrupt life.  A significant flood would make fuel unavailable too, or at least getting it out of storage and into vehicles.  Mad Max comes to mind when talking fuel availability.

 

It has now been proven that we have at least 1000 years of oil reserves. In the 70s, oil was going to run out in a few.

 

None of you Prius sympathizers is addressing the cost of replacement batteries either.  Pretty damn expensive every 5 years or so, even if you do buy a used worn out model.......

 

without oil subsidies, wind and sun power would have gone nowhere, and still arent up to snuff.

 

Think Ill buy a Doble, oh yeah, I cant afford one.......

[8E45E]

7 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

 

??? I see lots of Cadillacs on the road around here. Way more than Mustangs. Why would you think Cadillac did not recover? Is it because they never went low in sales to begin with, therefore could not recover what was never lost?🙄

Cadillac relinquished its "Standard of the World" crown years ago. 

 

The very topic of this thread is basically how the (once) Big Three luxury car offerings all lost their mojo in the world market.    Cadillac doesn't even offer a V-12 like the German cars, and Toyota in its home market does.

 

Here, I see more Mustangs, than I do Cadillac passenger cars, though their SUV and CUV lines are rather popular.

 

Craig

[TerryB]

Only here would owing a Prius be considered a crime against the world order. For shame on anyone trying to extend the distance they travel on a gallon of gas!  They probably recycle too!  My neighbors have owned a Prius for years, the are both in their 80s.  Never had to put a new battery pack in it just seem to drive them with no issues.  I’ll be sure to tell them they really should be driving a diesel pickup that’s modified to put out tons of black smoke when you press on the throttle, it’s their duty as an American to be wasteful!  That 1000 years of oil reserves might require they leave their home so it can be accessed, but knowing they are contributing to the natural progression of waste makes haste should make them feel they are doing their patriotic duty.

[1912Staver]

Terry, it's all a mater of perspective. Some people commute by private jet. Or own a Deep south mansion with an AC bill that is probably more than most of us earn in a year. It's all part of the Western dream. Earn, buy, throw away , repeat.  Human nature 

seems to have some sort of hardwired need to compete. Probably relates to the desire to mate with the most desirable partner possible. Material success is how that question  usually seems to be settled. I have seen many short , overweight , bald rich men with wives 

way higher on the wow scale than is possible by chance alone. What tips the scale ? The baldness or the $ ? You can volunteer for the Peace Corp. all you want but the guy with the Millions seems to get the babe every time. People are shallow, competitive creatures. It's been like that for 

1/2 a million years or so, not going to change because of a bit of inconvience. . { or truth }

 

Greg in Canada

[auburnseeker]

It's great to still live in a free (well mostly free) country where I can mostly decide to have my big diesel truck instead of a Prius.  

Good thing to, as that Prius doesn't haul the 26 foot enclosed car trailer very well or the huge pile of lumber I brought home a couple of months ago.

I should probably sell my old polluting Diesel that puts out no black smoke even though it's mildly tuned just to save the world,  so the next guy that buys it can really put out some emissions as he racks up a million mile,  Or if I keep it,  it can sit in the garage and not pollute much at all as I rarely drive it being I'm self employed and work from home.  Probably sees less than 5000 miles a year.  The Prius would be great to go to Hershey until you find something big you want but can't get it home.  6 hours one way with no back ups to Hershey at 72 miles an hour.  How many charges?  

 

Many people from the town and area I grew up in Northern NY state (often known for power outages) travel over 75 miles one way just to go grocery shopping.  That's besides the running around they do once they get down to where the shopping centers are. 

I'm sure electrics will be welcome in the Cubicle parts of the country such as the NY Annex area and other places like LA, but rural areas are not going to embrace it for a long time. 

 

[Brass is Best]

This would have been a great product to bring back the Edsel nameplate. 

[billorn]

1 hour ago, mercer09 said:

It has now been proven that we have at least 1000 years of oil reserves. In the 70s, oil was going to run out in a few.

 

[auburnseeker]

1 minute ago, Brass is Best said:

This would have been a great product to bring back the Edsel nameplate. 

I think Ford literally buried that name plate.  I actually had a sales brochure that mentioned how they were on sale because as they put it,  "you know the Edsel Died"  Even had a cartoon of a Mummy or Ghoul,  I think in a Coffin. 

[joe_padavano]

9 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

 

I bought my 81 Cadillac Eldorado Diesel from a guy with a 500 gallon home oil tank that supplied most of the fuel for the car's first 100 K miles!😄  Plus it heated his very large home ( the tank, not the Eldorado.

 

I'm not sure a 500 gallon gasoline tank would fit in a residential setting as well! Now, a farm with old equipment, YES! I did some construction work on a farm with both 500 gallon diesel and gasoline tanks, above ground.

 

NO above ground gasoline tanks at fuel stations around here. Everything underground. Except for the LARGE tanks at the end of the pipeline (Newington, VA).

 

If that 500 gallon underground tank isn't already installed, it isn't going  to be there when the power goes out. And once you have a tank, you had better plan on using the fuel in it regularly, otherwise it will go bad and won't be usable when you do need it. And good luck getting all that in place today. Priced underground tanks lately, with all the liners and other environmental constraints?  And what happens if the natural disaster is a flood? I'm sure there's no chance at all that there will be water in the tank. And assuming all this works and you do have fuel for your car, where, exactly do you plan to go? The roads will be blocked with downed trees and wires, supermarkets won't be open if there's no power, and the refrigerated foods will already be spoiled.

 

Sorry, this is just another fantasy in line with the other "prepper fantasies". It's like the yahoo that justifies his Hummer H1 by claiming he's going to be able to take doctors to hospitals in an emergency. Yeah, that'll happen.

Edited November 20, 2019 by joe_padavano (see edit history)

[TerryB]

Mr Auburn, a Prius is a hybrid, it uses gas and electric so no stopping to charge is required.  There are plug in versions that use all electric first then switch over to gas.  It’s nice you have a diesel truck that meets your needs, I had a pickup, non diesel, at one time too that I used as needed.  Other times I drove my motorcycle or a little 4 cyl Dodge Caliber.  No longer need a pickup so it’s gone.  No big deal.  As I said earlier, I live where horse and buggy share the road with cars, and some of those cars are now electric, something I thought would take a lot longer to happen given our rural location.  Charging is becoming less of an issue.

 

What is hard for me to understand is that people post statements that essentially go out of their way to condemn those who freely choose to drive electric or hybrid as if they are inviting the end of the world to come.   

[padgett]

So it is evident that there is profit to be made from expensive cars that cannot leave the city and are best for daily drivers & to work.

Still suspect that at least my local grid cannot handle millions of plug-ins at 6 pm. Voltage already drops when the ACs turn on.

 

My Jeep SUV (DOHC-6, IFS/IRS, 4 wheel disks. Has 290 hp at 6400 rpm and based on actual mpg on my last trip to Jax (400 miles RT), has a 650 mile range (of course I fill at no less than 1/4 tank tro keep the pump wet). is usually configured as a 2-seater with a lot of luggage space.

 

Of hysterical note, the original P51 Mustang was a dud with the original American engine. So we dumped them on the Brits who hot-rodded it with a Merlin and made it fast.

 

Currently Caddy is selling more cars to the Chinese than in the US. This explains some design choices. They are making some wannabe Pontiacs.

 

From GM the only two doors left are Corvette, Camaro, and a Caddy. Ford has one, Chrysler has one.

 

"You aren't blazing a trail by driving old cars, you're just walking backwards on the trail made by all the people leaving old cars for new ones." I have occasionally bought new cars (last was in '12 with lotsa discounts and rebates). I rather let someone else absorb the depreciation. Major improvement this decade has been infotainment and my '01 is a lot easier to modify than my '11. Have never left a car stock for long.

 

Just my opinion.

[Locomobile]

A thing I noticed a while back is that many folks seem to think automakers are determining what everyone will drive and building it. That is not the case at all. They, like any other manufacturer build what they think will sell. The marketing analysis, most likely much of it is internet chatter, is that a large portion of the market is ready for an electric. That may be accurate, but I truly doubt it. It's the same "she has a 98% chance" fallacy.

 

If I was in the auto business and tooling up for an electric line, I'd make sure to put everything on wheels.

 

There is also this misconception that electric vehicles are something new, there were several seriously competitive electric cars offered 120 years ago, I know I know, they have better range and more bells etc now. But I'll be danged if I'm going to spend 50k on a vehicle and have some emergency come up 400 miles away and I have to get there quickly and have to cop a ride with someone else to get there.

 

I know about the claimed ranges, but lets add a very realistic element to driving year-round - the weather. What does running the electric heater and headlights do to the range in near zero degree weather? Or Mountains, rough pavement, high head winds? Nothing good.

 

Another problem that I see is the regional and local grid itself. I don't know how many of you live around large cities or specifically large dying cities like Detroit, but I can attest that the reliability of electric service is getting very poor. The last two weeks I lived in Dearborn, the power was out five times and for long periods of an hour or better. DTE was sending out letters apologizing for the poor service.

 

The electric pickup is really amusing, not sure if they are aware of it, but some of us actually use a truck as a truck. There will be copious amounts of YouTube material.

 

-Ron

Edited November 20, 2019 by Locomobile (see edit history)

[billorn]

So basicly "if we dont have 100% of the hurdles solved dont even bother trying."

 

That makes sense. Why arent we all still riding horses again?

[Locomobile]

4 minutes ago, billorn said:

Why arent we all still riding horses again?

 

It's pretty simple, a horse was very poor transportation, High initial and maintenance cost, relegated to short trips... sound familiar? That's what has killed the electric car on it's many introductions over the years.

 

The problem with the whole Greenhouse gas/Global warming/Chlorofluorocarbon - and now simply "climate change" movement it's all based on cherry picking evidence. I'm in Kentucky, here we are setting records for cold weather right now, 2014/15 in Michigan was the coldest winter in recorded history, the Great lakes froze completely over which has never happened before in recorded history. Funny, the media barely gave it a mention. They love to show the polar ice caps melting in the spring - newsflash they have been doing that every spring for thousands of years, rarely if ever do they report on the amount of freezing over the winter. The "98% of scientists agree that the climate is changing" claim is totally misrepresented, of course the climate is changing, only an idiot would dispute that, but until the meteorological outlets can accurately predict the weather this weekend, I'll pay their hundred year predictions very little mind. I'll also lend it more credence when the proposed solutions are unharnessed from the ushering in of socialism.

 

-Ron

 

 

[mercer09]

 

Only here would owing a Prius be considered a crime against the world order. For shame on anyone trying to extend the distance they travel on a gallon of gas!  They probably recycle too!  My neighbors have owned a Prius for years, the are both in their 80s.  Never had to put a new battery pack in it just seem to drive them with no issues.  I’ll be sure to tell them they really should be driving a diesel pickup that’s modified to put out tons of black smoke when you press on the throttle, it’s their duty as an American to be wasteful!  That 1000 years of oil reserves might require they leave their home so it can be accessed, but knowing they are contributing to the natural progression of waste makes haste should make them feel they are doing their patriotic duty.

 

Terry, not at all against the success of the electric car or whatever.......... as a matter of fact, I am for it.

 

but nobody likes to address that electrics are a losing proposition that are only bolstered by oil at this juncture.

 

That shipping far out pollutes the automobile at this point and that China and India are two of the largest culprits.........

 

but in the meantime, as an American, I am not doing enough.  I cry bunk.

[WQ59B]

What separates the ownership appeal of a Mustang vs. a Model 3; 2 more doors?

[bryankazmer]

To a number of people the Tesla has a better brand image (I said image).  Perceived as modern technology vs Mustang being a retro car.

 

The 49 Cadillac is often saluted for its "modern" OHV V8 - which made no more HP at the time than Packard's 10 year old straight 8 L head.

[ply33]

2 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

. . . The Prius would be great to go to Hershey until you find something big you want but can't get it home.  6 hours one way with no back ups to Hershey at 72 miles an hour.  How many charges? . . .

 

Color me confused. . . You don't charge the Prius, you put gas in it when the tank goes empty. Basically, it is an econo-car that happens to be able to carry a remarkable amount of stuff.

[Billy Kingsley]

One thing I find humorous is that in five years the Prius will be AACA elligable. 

[auburnseeker]

1 hour ago, ply33 said:

 

Color me confused. . . You don't charge the Prius, you put gas in it when the tank goes empty. Basically, it is an econo-car that happens to be able to carry a remarkable amount of stuff.

Ok I screwed up.  Everyone feel better.  Fill in your favorite electric, non hybrid.  Sorry I'm not up on much more than the 10 year old and back diesel truck market and couldn't tell you much about any of the new offerings as to what's a Hybrid and What's a pure electric. 

Any way you look at it,  regardless of what the latest tech crowd loves for EV,  the infrastructure isn't there to support it mainstream and heaven forbid one needs to really haul anything or live in an adverse climate.  There were places up here after the ice storm 20? years ago in the winter that had no power for Months. 

 

[billorn]

I'm not going to base my car buying decisions on the fear of a end of the world event happening while I own it. If my survival is based on what powers my car then I'm probly already screwed anyway when the zombies come. Where do you live where such bad things happen that you need to flee for your life farther than the range of a electric car? Maybe time to move someplace where the end of the world doesnt happen all the time?

[mercer09]

but but Bill.............

 

looks like you own a 79 c10.

 

oh alright then!

[1937hd45]

If electrics are so popular how come there is never a line of them at the recharging plugs?  Bob