Painting a Car

[Rusty_OToole]

LOL at the do it yourself dude. Plus fours, white dress shirt, ascot and gloves to paint his Renault

Edited February 28, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

Great responses by everyone, reading back over all of them, I think everything was covered. Cheezy paint shops talking low prices, value of project, use of car, paint types, ask questions, finished cars on open market, buying power of owners money, good work/bad work, other problems owner will find, time frame, budget, what to expect and watch over your project. Everyone's comments are right on the money. Words of wisdom from everyone.

[60FlatTop]

One more important point, if you leave the car for more than one week make arrangement to pay an invoice for work completed each week. I rarely have work that extensive done, but a few years ago my Nephew did a lot of work on my convertible and we made that arrangement. It was a good precedent for him on future jobs and assured work flow. You won't regret it.

Bernie

[joe_padavano]

The suggestions to use Maaco unfortunately give me heartburn.  I realize that each shop is independently owned and as a result, skill level of the workers varies.  My very first restoration was a 1968 Olds 442. I spent weeks stripping the car to bare metal, repairing the rust, and priming the car.  I took it to my local Maaco in central MA. The resulting paint job was so poor that I resolved then and their to learn how to do it myself.  I ended up repainting that car because I couldn't stand the dirt and snot in the Maaco paint job.  I've done all my own cars since then, which has been about 40 years now.

[Restorer32]

Agreed Joe. Anyone who goes to Maaco goes there for one reason,  price. If a Maaco job makes you happy, good for you, just don't delude yourself into thinking you are improving the car. I have seen cars that were painted with a broom in a barn on a windy night that look better than a Maaco job.

[Mark Shaw]

36 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

The suggestions to use Maaco unfortunately give me heartburn.  I realize that each shop is independently owned and as a result, skill level of the workers varies.

Joe,

     I couldn't agree more.   The first job my local MAACO did was a challenge.  The manager was in a motorcycle accident and not at the shop when my first paint job was done.  They failed to mask the chrome tail pipes & rubber bumpers on my Volvo 1800ES.  So, when I came to pick up the car, I refused to accept it and insisted that they correct the problems.  They made it right and I have always insisted on inspecting everything prior to shooting paint on every job since. 

It pays to show them exactly what you expect from them.  My most recent MAACO job was done just two weeks ago on my 15 Buick Speedster.  In my opinion, it is the owner's choice to either restore a car for show judging or for driving.  All my cars are drivers and are never shown to win awards.  My cars have surprised many show car owners who find it hard to believe they were painted by MAACO.  In my opinion, it is up to the car owner to decide what level and at what price they want to pay for their car.  My local MAACO shop has performed better than most expect for a reasonable price.  I suggest you allow each owner to make their own choices for driver quality paint before condemning all MAACO shops.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

This picture was taken the day after set at the Boise Roadster show, you can see the 59 Cad next to our Packard. That car was painted at that same paint shop. I do not know what they mixed the paint with. Had to have the slowest cure/flash times a product could have. I got headache standing next to our car. That Cad flashed dried all week end long. Should of had a no smoking sign posted next to it. 

[60FlatTop]

3 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

cars that were painted with a broom in a barn on a windy night that look better than a Maaco job

Has anyone noticed how hard it is to get a good quality broom anymore?

[Restorer32]

12 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

Has anyone noticed how hard it is to get a good quality broom anymore?

It's easy here in PA Dutch Country. Lots of broom makers around.

[Bhigdog]

3 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

Agreed Joe. Anyone who goes to Maaco goes there for one reason,  price.

 

Well yeah.......Not every one can afford to put a $25,000 paint job on $10,000 book value car and would actually be foolish to do so. Looking down one's nose at the guy that scrapes enough precious  $ together to make his treasured beater more enjoyable smacks of elitism.

The first car I painted was my 41 Merc convertable. I was seventeen at the time. I painted it in the drive way using a spray gun that had it's own compressor right in the gun. I'm guessing some others here would have sneered at the job. 

I was proud of it.................I Still am.............................Bob

[Restorer32]

I am certainly not looking down my nose at anyone.  I have no beef with folks who get the best paint job they can afford. Nothing wrong with that.  I do have a beef with those who claim that a $2500 Maaco paint job is just as nice as a $20,000 job. We all know that isn't true. If it is you were scammed.

[Bhigdog]

On 2/28/2018 at 2:44 PM, Restorer32 said:

I am certainly not looking down my nose at anyone.  I have no beef with folks who get the best paint job they can afford. Nothing wrong with that.  I do have a beef with those who claim that a $2500 Maaco paint job is just as nice as a $20,000 job. We all know that isn't true. If it is you were scammed.

 

Not looking to get in a pissing contest. You obviously are very experienced in what you do. That said, I'm not so sure that anyone said a Maaco job  is just as nice as a top notch, balls to the wall, $20,000 job.  The comments were more along the line that a Maaco job, under the correct conditions, by a competent shop, can produce reasonable results at a very reasonable cost. 

I am certain you have seen terrible Maaco job's. I'm also fairly certain you have seen $10,000+ jobs that were just as bad. I know I have.

Probably $10,000 of a $20,000 job is spent chasing that last 10% of perfection. Nothing wrong with that assuming the car warrants it and your pockets are deep. Not everyone needs, wants, or can afford perfection. (That's a good thing because they seldom get it)

With a $10,000 budget the O.P. has any number of options.

So here's hoping he has gleaned a few nuggets of wisdom and makes an informed decision and he and his car live happily ever after........Bob

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

This is on Craigslist out here, https://twinfalls.craigslist.org/cto/d/1956-packard-400/6469125838.html

[Xander Wildeisen]

Here are three for sale on the net. https://classiccars.com/listings/find/1955/packard/400

[Frank DuVal]

Back when I was doing paint work, a friend got an estimate from me that was higher than he could afford. He said something in Hungarian, and I knew it wasn't cursing or insulting my ancestry, so I asked him what he said. It translated to "I can't afford oil, so I will cook with water". Makes sense, if you can't buy the best, work with what you can afford. You still want to do the best you can with what you can afford, so ask for references, see work at local cruise ins, etc.

[Michael C Wauhop]

Well I thank you guys for all your advice but I think I have someone I can trust the car with. State auto body has been in business since 1964 and I stopped by their shop a couple of days ago with my car and asked for an estimate. I saw some of their finished work and it looks like they know what there doing they don't specialize in car restoration but they did I 1965 Ford Mustang a few years ago and it looks great. They quoted me a price of $6000 and promised me that I would be happy with the results. The two men who work there one is an old time bodyman who has over 50 years of experience and his son well i went to grade school with him! Here is a photo of the car as you can see the primer is bleeding through the front fender in this picture; its is also bleeding though on other parts of the car.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Michael C Wauhop (see edit history)

[AJFord54]

That sounds like a very fair number.  Don't forget to post photos when it's all done.  

[Xander Wildeisen]

That is a nice looking car, I understand wanting to paint it. But it sure does have a nice look to it the way it is. It looks good no matter what you do, great car.

[Restorer32]

I'm not sure I would recommend painting it. Looks good the way it is. Maybe a good wet sand and polish.

[alsancle]

I need to see more pictures,   but that car looks great in that single one.   If the rest of the car looks like that in person,  my advice would be to not paint it. 

 

Maybe just me,  but when I see two cars,  one with a mellowed 30 year old paint job (but no waves or bubbles), and the same car but with a new shiny paint job I like the former much more than the later.

[39BuickEight]

Is that the original paint?  If so, wow!  What a great car!

[Matt Harwood]

I agree with the other guys--I'm not sure painting it is necessary if the whole car looks as good as that photo. I don't think this car would have sold in just four days with a shiny new paint job:

 

 

But with original paint and a little patina it has a very appealing, honest look that everyone loved. Plenty of thin spots with primer coming through, especially on the tops of the fenders where there's a crease. Lots of chips and nicks. Nevertheless, I had three guys fighting over this plain Jane little Mustang coupe that cost less than $15,000. Patina (not neglect) can be very appealing. Better still, original paint means no botched bodywork hidden underneath, which is very reassuring to future buyers. With a car like a Packard, the contrast between slightly weathered paint and the upscale image can create a neat juxtaposition of luxury and casual that really works well. 

 

The thing with original cars is that they're unusual. Shiny cars are common. Take off your hobbyist glasses and walk any car show as an outsider and look where everyone stops--it won't be the shiny, perfect cars, it will be the cars with character. 

 

Think about it. $6000 could make the car run and drive like new...

[60FlatTop]

The difference between a MAACO type paint job and a collector car level paint job is:

 

MAACO paints the car for the owner.

 

The other paint job is for every nit picking friend or stranger who ever walks up to the car ever again.

 

There are shops that will avoid jobs they think will be over criticized.

Bernie

[Matt Harwood]

31 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

The difference between a MAACO type paint job and a collector car level paint job is:

 

MAACO paints the car for the owner.

 

The other paint job is for every nit picking friend or stranger who ever walks up to the car ever again.

 

There are shops that will avoid jobs they think will be over criticized.

Bernie

 

That's a great way to look at it, Bernie. I never thought of it that way, but you're 100% correct. I'll admit that I avoid representing cars that will cause me headaches from the peanut gallery (exotics, mostly). Painters are surely the same way. On my personal cars, I don't much care about perfection because I'm the only guy who has to love the car and I'm usually inside it. My Buick Limited is pretty scruffy but I have yet to hear anyone complain about its look. I also have near-perfect cars in my shop and there's a never-ending litany of guys pointing out flaws and defects on those. Bleh.

 

I'm always reminded of what my father told me when I was young: the smarter you are, the less you care about what other people think. 

[West Peterson]

24 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

I also have near-perfect cars in my shop and there's a never-ending litany of guys pointing out flaws and defects on those. Bleh.

 

Sometimes it has to do with how much it has been said that the restoration cost. I've walked up to "perfect" cars, then was told "X" million dollars was spent on its restoration. At that point, I automatically start looking for things that are, or may be wrong with it.The same is true for a car that seems to be marketed at a price way beyond what is thought possible on that particular car.

[Buffalowed Bill]

It's certainly the owners choice, but there are some very knowledgeable people on this forum who feel that it might be in the car and the owner's best interest to maintain it as an original. I fear, that this maybe a case of a one time whimsical choice, by an owner who needs to be educated. When a noted restorer like "Restorer 32," and a specialty car dealer like Matt Harwood, indicate doubt as to any advantage to painting, I think that the owner should take heed. I really think that the owner needs to call a timeout, take a deep breath and listen.

[Xander Wildeisen]

A person could hit the road in the Packard with old paint, and go on a $6,000 dollar road trip. When finished, you would have a head full of great memories and a very nice original painted Packard.

[60FlatTop]

Sometimes I make a general prioritization and say "If it was the last couple of points to make it a 400 point car I would do it now."

 

I have 390 some things on the list, but I am working on it.

 

The best plan is to buy what you can't do up front. I know body guys who have nice paint jobs and under the pretty is a mess, lucky the wheels aren't falling off. My cars tend to be mechanically up to snuff and need some level of pretty.

The Buick Nationals is in June and I could go out in the garage, stick the key in any of them, and make the 3500 mile round trip, leaving tonight with a tank of gas. But they all need some paint, except for the car I just bought with nice paint and a bad reputation for needing mechanical work, no big deal.

 

My level of shopping is to buy the car that came back from the paint shop and won't steer, stop, or start. There are a lot of those out there, more than most want to admit.

 

And buying the car with the nice paint job assures a nice paint job. No matter how high the estimate, the paint job that is not complete may not meet your expectations in many ways. Early in this thread a "western New York" shop was mentioned or associated. I immediately remembered the Bentley convertible that spent 28 years at a shop in Batavia. I also know of rust repair that was extra after a car sat outside for five to ten years, not unheard of.

 

Over the half century of my experience the most common body shop excuse has been "My Wife got sick." Before you leave a car anywhere for a big job, especially bodyy work, I STRONGLY suggest you have a complete physical done on the owners Wife. To paraphrase Karl: "Don't leave the car without it."

Bernie

Edited March 1, 2018 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Wheelmang]

Kinda a timely subject for me. Got my 26 DB out of the garage two days ago and this is the project for the next week. I know it is not a classic yet but I expect to be all in on this for under $1500 but already had all of the tools etc. A lot of little parking lot dings and someone keyed the entire passenger side. It can be done for small money if you have the time and patience. 

 

[cahartley]

23 hours ago, Michael C Wauhop said:

 Here is a photo of the car as you can see the primer is bleeding through the front fender in this picture; its is also bleeding though on other parts of the car.

 

That car appears a perfectly nice 20 footer and I wouldn't spend 5¢ having it painted.

It that's the original, two tone, paint job I'd save the money for gas driving the wheels off of it........zoom zoom zoom....... 

[auburnseeker]

One thing to remember as well,  that I've discussed many times with a friend of mine that does full blown restorations to small jobs.  Many come in as a small job and it's hard to draw the line where to stop.  

It's usually starts with I just want to get it painted so it looks decent,  now what do you do with that old dry rotted weatherstrip around the glass,  now the glass all comes out and all the chrome is off,  well you can't put that tired dinged up piece of chrome,  back on this brand new spectacular paint job,  so you start rechroming while it's off.  Now you have well exceeded the value of the car and the front fenders are off to detail the engine bay, then the engine is out so you can put new motor mounts in, now a wire harness.  Where do you stop?  

Most end up a raw chassis,  by choice of the owner and get some sort of body off frame up job.  

With original worn paint,  you have original worn chrome, and everything else that has worn evenly over the years,  so nothing jumps out as being new with everything else being old.  

Of the cars I have had,  many get a wet sanding and buffing,  Minimal paint work,  unless something is terrible or has had a bad repair job,  and often a bunch of NOS or nice Clean original replacement chrome.  The chrome is usually the easiest thing to do and doesn't tie the car up in paint jail. 

Next time you are at a show, walk around and look at the cars with nice new shiny paint with tired old pitted chrome.  Then notice the cars that are just the opposite.  You always think,  wow that car with the pitted chrome must have been really rough and is probably full of sins under that paint.  The one with the sparkling chrome but worn paint always just looks so much more honest. 

 

[Matt Harwood]

13 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

One thing to remember as well,  that I've discussed many times with a friend of mine that does full blown restorations to small jobs.  Many come in as a small job and it's hard to draw the line where to stop.  

It's usually starts with I just want to get it painted so it looks decent,  now what do you do with that old dry rotted weatherstrip around the glass,  now the glass all comes out and all the chrome is off,  well you can't put that tired dinged up piece of chrome,  back on this brand new spectacular paint job,  so you start rechroming while it's off.  Now you have well exceeded the value of the car and the front fenders are off to detail the engine bay, then the engine is out so you can put new motor mounts in, now a wire harness.  Where do you stop?  

Most end up a raw chassis,  by choice of the owner and get some sort of body off frame up job.  

With original worn paint,  you have original worn chrome, and everything else that has worn evenly over the years,  so nothing jumps out as being new with everything else being old.  

Of the cars I have had,  many get a wet sanding and buffing,  Minimal paint work,  unless something is terrible or has had a bad repair job,  and often a bunch of NOS or nice Clean original replacement chrome.  The chrome is usually the easiest thing to do and doesn't tie the car up in paint jail. 

Next time you are at a show, walk around and look at the cars with nice new shiny paint with tired old pitted chrome.  Then notice the cars that are just the opposite.  You always think,  wow that car with the pitted chrome must have been really rough and is probably full of sins under that paint.  The one with the sparkling chrome but worn paint always just looks so much more honest. 

 

 

"Mightaswellitis." Almost impossible to cure. Applying copious amounts of cash seems to alleviate the symptoms for a while but it always comes back. Related to "Aslongaswereintherecytosis."

[fordrodsteven]

I didn't ;look through this whole thread. I decided to mention what I once did just in case it was not mentioned earlier.

I had a 1973 Ford Mustang MACH1 I bought in 1989. It had been repainted with a low quality paint job before I got it. I was pretty happy with it. Unfortunately The California sun and the Santa Ana winds beat it up pretty good (faded the clear coat). I brought it with me when I moved to SC. I was still pretty happy with it until someone at work backed his truck out of a parking spot in 1996. His foot slipped off the clutch and I then had to get a replacement hood, grille, and other associated parts. So... here's what I did. I went to the local Technical high school and met with the auto body teacher. We talked. He looked at the car. I did the did-assembly of exterior trim and lights and put the replacement hood on the car. (surprising how much the stripped down '73 Mustang looked very similar to a '69 Camaro). I dropped the car at the school in September (start of school year) and the instructor said it would take six months. He was true to his word. I picked up a nice looking Mustang in March. It wasn't perfect but I felt it was surely better than a paint job from one of those places that runs $299 specials all the time. BTW I got a quote from one of those $299 special places . He estimated the body work and then added the $299 for paint. Final quote $7,500. Anyway bottom line is I got a satisfactory paint job for under $1,000 and I felt that some potential future craftsmen got some training / practice and the high school kids were proud to take a picture in front of the Mustang when finished. (They also got some practice applying vinyl graphics)

Edited March 2, 2018 by fordrodsteven (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

Then there are the upside down restorations. Fellow brings us a driveable but ratty '47 Cad conv. He just wants it painted and will.never show it he says. I explain that new paint will make the rest of the car relatively more shabby but he insists on new paint only. A few months after it was painted he decided the chrome should be done. A year later he wanted the engine pulled out and rebuilt. Now he has new paint, new chrome, rebuilt and detailed engine. Of course all this makes the chassis look bad so he had us pull the body from the car, restore the entire chassis and remount  the already painted body. The car went on to win a Grand National First.

 

[R Walling]

 Whatever your choice, SET A TIME FOR COMPLETION!

 

 A car that takes three years to paint was probably done in the last month or so at the shop!

 If they are not going to work on it right away or finish it on time you are probably being stroked.

[60FlatTop]

Anyone, even remotely, contemplating ANY job on an old car needs to watch this:

 

[dalef62]

Nice looking Packard!  My dad had a 1955 Packard Caribbean convertible many years ago.

I don't know what all the fuss is about wanting to keep the original paint when it is worn out.  If the paint is worn through and the primer is showing it is not original!  I know the car is only original once, but once it start deteriorating to the point of the primer showing or rust out it is not original any more.  Did the car come from the factory with primer showing on the fenders, or rust showing on the body?  If a person wants to paint a car to make it like new there is nothing wrong with that.  If you want to keep it the way it is, that is fine too, but it is not like it was when it came from the factory. 

Yes, a car is only original once but if it is deteriorated to the point of not looking like it did when it left the factory what is the purpose?  

And yes, the cost of restorations has gone through the roof and it is hard to validate the cost involved, but if you want a car to look like it just rolled off the assembly line it will cost money to make it happen.

Now let the fire storm begin...  

[Buffalowed Bill]

Sad point of fact, we all have to make our own mistakes, at least once. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

There are a few cars on my wish list, and if any of them had an original finish on them, in that state of decay. I would not repaint the car. It just opens up to many other things that a person would/should do, while the car is being repainted. Owners car, he will make the choice that is best for him.

[R Walling]

19 hours ago, dalef62 said:

 

Yes, a car is only original once but if it is deteriorated to the point of not looking like it did when it left the factory what is the purpose?  

 

Patina is a much valued treasure, to be admired and unable to be duplicated. Enjoy the moment, as it only comes with time and memories.