Mark Gregory Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) I live in Canada and the other day on one of our major highways a motorists snow tire flew off while he was driving . Now there is a big push to have a certification program to install tires . I am curious do they do any thing like this in the USA ? If you count the amount of tires on the road compared to the ones that fly off it must be a very small percentage . Sorry everyone there was a video on you tube last night but it is gone now . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UBpR4xI47g Edited November 23, 2016 by Mark Gregory (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Never heard of it when I worked for Firestone about 30 some years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 I doubt that most of our tire installers have Green cards much less gubment certification 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Not sure how certifying someone will ensure that lug nuts get tightened. Either they're tight or they're not. I've had this happen to me, but fortunately the wheel didn't come off--it just felt very unbalanced. I took it back to the tire shop to complain and they found the problem (and admitted it, remarkably). Stuff happens and a certification program isn't going to guarantee that a guy making $8/hour doesn't forget to torque the lugs. I'm also guessing that the driver of that SUV knew something was wrong before it happened--note the hazard lights. Nevertheless, they chose to keep driving at highway speeds. There are two guilty parties here, the guy who didn't torque them and the moron who didn't stop when he knew something was amiss and just hoped for the best. More bureaucracy and training won't cure stupid. Recent events prove that it's obviously reached epidemic proportions. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 No certification requirements that I know anywhere. Also what are you going to do about the person that changes their own tire, does a brake job, etc.? Or has a flat tire and changes their tire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 You can't legislate stupidity, though many legislators try. They must APPEAR to be doing something. This is like the TPMS requirements now on every car because owners were too stupid or last to check tire pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 This is the only case of a tire falling off of a car (not the wheel) that I have ever seen, and probably the only case of it going back on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Roger, As the announcer said: "Unbelievable". Cheers, Grog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Carl, your not being "politically correct", true but not PC. I agree with Carl, the guys that I see working in some repair shops couldn't spell "certification". Don't get me wrong, sure there are many mechanics that I would take my car to but also many I wouldn't let wash my cars. I had my car serviced, as required by my contract and the I opened the hood when I got home and there were several tools laying in the engine compartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 +1 "More bureaucracy and training won't cure stupid" Not just tire shops, I tool delivery of a car that had no lubricant in the diff. Another had so much engine sealer that it clogged the radiator. And the were brand new special ordered cars. Now I know what a loose wheel feels like but doubt that many do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 When I moved into management my former workmates asked me how I did on my performance review for the new job. I told them all my skills were great, but my ability to overreact was a little low. I think that has affected me politically, as well. Bernie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grumpy's Auto Shop Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 5 hours ago, 46 woodie said: ... I opened the hood when I got home and there were several tools laying in the engine compartment. Think of it as them 'giving back to the customer'. Chances are that wrench cost more than the 'Wrench' made on the job. (Don't ask me how I know this...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grumpy's Auto Shop Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 To the OP: There is a proposal in my state that ALL service personnel be ASE and/or factory certified. To this I am completely opposed, partly because of the number of 'certified mistakes' that come to me to be corrected. That and the fact that I am cynical, grouchy (think 'Ed Brown'), and have been doing this for longer than there has even been an ASE racket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Quote" "ALL service personnel be ASE and/or factory certified." What a scam. each test cost $$$ and you have to be "recertified" in time, for more $$$. Your arm patch doesn't tell someone how good you are, just how much $$$ you has spent trying to impress someone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 A few years ago there was a big fuss about truck tires coming off on the 401. A truck driver told me they never had a problem back when the government maintained the roads. Now they let them get into a shocking state, and the rough roads beat the tires off the trucks. I think it is bullshit. One bad tire means nothing. How many cars are on the road, how many tires? Out of those tens of millions of tires how many cause trouble? There are a lot worse things than that they could be worried about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Was that ONLY the wheel that came off, and not ALSO a stub of a spindle from a dry wheel bearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grumpy's Auto Shop Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 One thing that remains unclear in this conversation is 'what is a tire?' My assumption is that in context it is a wheel/tire combo (which would be referred to as a 'wheel'). So we're clear, flat out dismounting a tire from a wheel is improbable at best. There are lottery games with better odds. This leaves 'improperly installed wheel', which immediately points to the last person to touch it OR it points to tread separation ('road gator') which is likely due to 'sustained use while underinflated, which is almost invariably 'user-error. If only the stat-compilers who send data to the powers that be knew the differences, as the point of blame is clearly different for the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grumpy's Auto Shop Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Grimy said: Was that ONLY the wheel that came off, and not ALSO a stub of a spindle from a dry wheel bearing? Oh, yeah! I forgot to mention 'busted axle'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 On the old GM 10 bolts, all that held the axle in was the bearing. If the bearing disintegrated you could be passed by the whole axle/wheel/tire assembly all bolted together (don't ask). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grumpy's Auto Shop Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 8 minutes ago, padgett said: On the old GM 10 bolts, all that held the axle in was the bearing. If the bearing disintegrated you could be passed by the whole axle/wheel/tire assembly all bolted together (don't ask). Your own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 I wouldn't be anywhere near as cynical as I am if I had not been paying attention for years. There is very little trade proficiency in trade regulations makers. I bet the official drafting the requirements would kneel next to you by a wheel and whisper something like "Lefty loosy" if they had to take it off. I spend quite a bit of time with the jokers pushing energy regulation. So I will ask "How many kilowatt hours of electricity did you purchase for your home last month?" They don't have a clue. Of course there is no certification to write regulations, is there. Bernie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 On an I-69 off ramp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32tatra Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 I have brought tires a number of times at Costco. Here not only are the tire installer certified. But each time they take class and pass they get a coin, and on the wall by the checkout desk. Are photos of all of the installer's and the class that they have taken and the coins that they have earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgreen Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 On 11/23/2016 at 6:14 AM, joe_padavano said: You can't legislate stupidity, though many legislators try. They must APPEAR to be doing something. This is like the TPMS requirements now on every car because owners were too stupid or last to check tire pressure. We've outlawed crime, but look what that does for us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 15 hours ago, padgett said: On the old GM 10 bolts, all that held the axle in was the bearing. If the bearing disintegrated you could be passed by the whole axle/wheel/tire assembly all bolted together (don't ask). No, the problem was the Chevy version of the axle, where the shaft was retained by a tiny C-clip at the differential. The C-clip breaks or the axle shaft snaps out and the axle, brake drum, and tire exit the housing. This is why performance applications use aftermarket versions of the so-called "Oldsmobile" axle ends, where a pressed-on bearing holds the shaft in the housing with a bolt-on plate. This is by far the stronger and more reliable retention method. Frankly, you'll have to ignore the grinding bearing for many, many miles before it disintegrates to the point that the shaft comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 10 hours ago, 32tatra said: I have brought tires a number of times at Costco. Here not only are the tire installer certified. But each time they take class and pass they get a coin, and on the wall by the checkout desk. Are photos of all of the installer's and the class that they have taken and the coins that they have earned. Don't get me started... All Costco has are lawyers who don't know a tire from a hole in the ground. I went to Costco to get two tires for my four wheel drive crewcab dually. When I told them what the vehicle was, they replied that they could only sell me FOUR tires, since it was four wheel drive. I knew it was impossible to try to educate them as to the difference between part-time four wheel drive (without a center differential) that can't be used on pavement anyway vs. an all wheel drive vehicle. I did point out that given their logic, they should only be able to sell me SIX tires at once, since the truck has six wheels. His response was that no, they would just put all four on the back. At that point I walked out into the parking lot, jacked the truck up myself, removed the two wheels and tires I wanted, and rolled them into the shop. I refused to tell them what vehicle they were going on. Immediately after that, I bought my own rim-clamp tire machine and wheel balancer. Now I don't have to deal with stupidity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Let's just say that back in my yout I broke nearly every axle GM offered and usually without warning (have replaced the axle bearing on a 67 GP 'vert in the auto parts store parking lot when on a trip when started talking to me). But then my street driving was mostly practice for the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 1 hour ago, padgett said: But then my street driving was mostly practice for the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterc9 Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 I've seen the chain store four tire lunacy. Installer certification will just make it even harder for some poor guy to get a nine dollar an hour job. They won't be able to sell you tires if their torque sticks are not listed for your obscure car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Torque sticks. That just made me smile. I was quite young and operating the refrigeration plant for a hospital on a weekend. The newly hired, certified, and train maintenance supervisor came to the mechanical room and told me he was having trouble with a new torque wrench. It wasn't working right. I followed him to the maintenance shop. There on the bench was the wrench, a pile of 1/4" bolts, and another pile of snapped off hex heads. He had set the micrometer handle for something like 20 pounds and said it wasn't releasing. I put one of the good bolts in a vice and pulled the wrench. The handle went over the detent at the right point and I asked what was wrong. He said "Isn't it supposed to release and turn freely?" I just left him with all the little hex heads. He may have gone on to writing regulations. It wasn't as bad as the garbage disposal they installed on the handsink in the autopsy room, though, Bernie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Have always preferred beam torque sticks. What is hard about 60-70 lb-ft for a steel wheel and 90-100 for aluminium ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midman Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Unfortunately in my day job industry, heavy truck or trailer wheel separation and tire tread separation is an every day occurrence, sometimes with deadly consequences. It all comes down to lack of maintenance and drivers not paying attention. All the certifications and special devices in the world mean nothing if someone doesn't have common sense or doesn't pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intimeold Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 To answer you question, "Does the USA require certified tire installers"? I don't believe yet; but something is up with the franchise shops and their lawyers. As forum poster, joe_padavano, posted on here earlier. and his adventures at Costco. Our local Ford/Subaru dealer won't plug a tire. No where - no way. I had a small nail in a new tire on a new Subaru; and they refused to touch it. Took it down the street to an independent garage; plugged it, two years ago. Wal-Mart had a special on Michelin tires. I took a Toyota Tundra in to get 4 new tires ; but wanted to "up size", 1 size. That Tundra can handle a lot more that that. They would NOT do it; it had to be the exact tire size the truck came with. I could have carried the rims in and they would mount them; but NOT install on the truck. So: The lawyers have gotten their finger in their somehow; somebody sued somebody somewhere. intimeold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 You don't want me to get going on this subject. One of my dad's favorite sayings was " A college education is NOT a cure for terminal stupidity!" Sadly, no truer words have ever been spoken. More and more, any sort of certification means almost nothing, until you have to hire a lawyer. Then the lawyer gets all the money, the uncertified guy that did nothing wrong gets shafted, while the certified idiot gets off the hook. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Actually, most college campus buildings suffer from poor ventilation due to a lack of dilution, filtration, mold infestations, and a general lack of funding for routine maintenance. There are documented reports that occupying such buildings can cause cognitive damage. With increased education requirements for most occupations, a greater number of the workforce can potentially be in decision making positions and could be brain damaged. Especially the facilities managers for college buildings. Could be a vicious circle forming out there. Bernie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said: Actually, most college campus buildings suffer from poor ventilation due to a lack of dilution, filtration, mold infestations, and a general lack of funding for routine maintenance. There are documented reports that occupying such buildings can cause cognitive damage. With increased education requirements for most occupations, a greater number of the workforce can potentially be in decision making positions and could be brain damaged. Especially the facilities managers for college buildings. Could be a vicious circle forming out there. Bernie Dang, Bernie you are a HOOT!!! LOL Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grumpy's Auto Shop Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 I'll just leave this here: I am a self-certified by A.S.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 (edited) Last time I actually had someone other than myself try to install a tire on my truck, the young, uneducated (about certain hubcaps) kid tried to pry off the center cap with a tire iron. He had no idea that it was attached from behind with screws! He bent it before I could stop him and a week later, the cap was lost on the highway. They were Chrysler rally wheels on the front of my A100.... Edited November 25, 2016 by keiser31 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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