Guest Rocky 72 Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 1 hour ago, auburnseeker said: Once you get going you may be able to buy a booth used. I have been to a couple dealership auctions and saw some really nice older break down steel booths that sold for under 5000. I think the one went for 3200. You may also beable to find a paint shop that would spray the cars for you if you got them all ready and all they had to do was shoot them. Then you color sand them and put them back together. Would you also not be able to have the customers buy the paint themselves with a very specific list? That would make it so you weren't buying alot of paint yourself. I know , I have seen a few at auction and cheap . So far around here there has been no problem with painting as long as your doing your own cars and not a lot of them so that's good , so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 21 minutes ago, Rocky 72 said: If I knew that I would live this long I would have been taking better care of my self . AMEN BROTHER! I had to retire early, I just could not use my hands anymore to be competitive with the 27 year old's graduating the apprenticeship. Most of my years were spent working outside construction doing high rise commercial work in NYC, when the money is good it is real good! When I was at your age a few years ago I felt the same as you do now. Concrete work is a young mans game, athletes would have a tough time doing that work at 50+ years of age. Ask them if they need a foreman, can't hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rocky 72 Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 I did they already have foreman and they work right with the crew and maybe harder than the crew , I'm sure you know how that goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 As someone who goes through A LOT of cars, I am constantly on the look out for someone who can solve problems. "Restored" cars are often just cosmetically nice, but mechanical nightmares, and no offense to the guys around here, but most collector car owners don't realize how bad their cars are because they have no basis for comparison. I drive a lot of different cars and the good ones quickly separate themselves from the bad ones. It is VERY hard to find a shop willing to turn a bad one into a good one, because it involves a lot of diverse jobs: wiring, cooling, gauges, alignments, rattle abatement, drivability issues (fuel or ignition), and things like that which get overlooked during the restoration process and everyone just lives with them because the fix is a pain in the neck. I know one young kid who works a day job as an engineer for an aircraft parts supplier, but his night/weekend job is fixing rattles and odd noises on old cars. Brilliant! I think there is a great demand for a jack-of-all-trades who can solve real problems. Forget bodywork and spraying paint, doing upholstery, and replacing chrome, there are a zillion shops that do that. There are plenty of engine builders and machine shops. But what every hobbyist needs, whether he knows it or not, is a guy who can solve little problems that every car has and most of us simply live with. The horn on my '29 Cadillac doesn't work because the insulation crumbled off the wire in the steering column and it honks constantly so I disconnected it. I can fix it myself but I don't, partly because of time and partly because it's a pain in the ass and partly because it's no big deal living without a horn, so I do. But I'd happily pay someone a few hundred bucks to fix it. That's the kind of thing that has a huge untapped market and I bet you could stay as busy as you wanted to once you earned a reputation as a problem solver, tackling jobs that would take a big shop weeks to get around to doing and which they're not properly geared to do. Better yet, do it better than they do, get the stuff exactly right, and make the cars work better than before. People will think you're a miracle-worker. Just a thought... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Rocky, If you are a good trim carpenter, or want to do "light" wood work, Move to rural Colorado where there is work aplenty !!!!! Mike in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roj Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Car restoration, well if you are a good business person, yes you can make it work. If you have a job you can make a living, but won't get rich anytime soon. I have two business's now, one is something I love to do, the other is work, and then I have a full time Engineering Position. It depends on what you want to leave as your legacy. I work hard and make a very good living, some people work hard and make enough to eat, others get by and don't work at all. If you work hard enough and do enough research you can be successful, if you half it, then you will be in worse shape that you are right now. So in the end, what can you do and what do you want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rocky 72 Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 5 hours ago, FLYER15015 said: Rocky, If you are a good trim carpenter, or want to do "light" wood work, Move to rural Colorado where there is work aplenty !!!!! Mike in Colorado Isn't it really cold there ? I thought about moving to Tennessee where its warmer . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Running a legal business costs a lot more than expected and the hoops to jump pop up from nowhere. If you don't do it completely legal you are asking for trouble. I own an S corp in New York State, with employees, that is not remotely related to cars. It is expensive and demanding to follow all the rules. There are benefits. Given what I know now, I would have started it in the 1970's Looking back over my life I have few regrets; and those few are regrets for things I didn't do. AND the things I didn't do were things I let someone talk me out of. On the wife thing mentioned a couple of times, the business plan should stand on its own without her input. Unless it's carpenter work and she is holding the nail and you have the hammer. Give her a voice in the business and she''l talk you into holding the nail. I'd say go for it. If you have been subbing you already know how to get along without money from 120 to 150 days. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rocky 72 Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Bernie your right about going without money for months at a time that's just the norm for me . As for the wife she thinks I should go for it , but she really likes cool cars so that makes it even better. I like all the replies cause it gives me something to think about and maybe even come up with a better plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Working on cars is a tough way to make a buck and hard on your body. Restoration work even more demanding and unless you have a big name, no one wants to pay what the job is worth. I went from working on cars to working on houses because it was so much easier and paid better. If there is no demand where you are for a good carpenter there will be a hell of a lot less demand for expensive restoration work. The best thing to do is move somewhere else. I don't know what you can do to make a living where there are no jobs and nobody has any money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 11 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: As someone who goes through A LOT of cars, I am constantly on the look out for someone who can solve problems. "Restored" cars are often just cosmetically nice, but mechanical nightmares, and no offense to the guys around here, but most collector car owners don't realize how bad their cars are because they have no basis for comparison. I drive a lot of different cars and the good ones quickly separate themselves from the bad ones. It is VERY hard to find a shop willing to turn a bad one into a good one, because it involves a lot of diverse jobs: wiring, cooling, gauges, alignments, rattle abatement, drivability issues (fuel or ignition), and things like that which get overlooked during the restoration process and everyone just lives with them because the fix is a pain in the neck. I know one young kid who works a day job as an engineer for an aircraft parts supplier, but his night/weekend job is fixing rattles and odd noises on old cars. Brilliant! I think there is a great demand for a jack-of-all-trades who can solve real problems. Forget bodywork and spraying paint, doing upholstery, and replacing chrome, there are a zillion shops that do that. There are plenty of engine builders and machine shops. But what every hobbyist needs, whether he knows it or not, is a guy who can solve little problems that every car has and most of us simply live with. The horn on my '29 Cadillac doesn't work because the insulation crumbled off the wire in the steering column and it honks constantly so I disconnected it. I can fix it myself but I don't, partly because of time and partly because it's a pain in the ass and partly because it's no big deal living without a horn, so I do. But I'd happily pay someone a few hundred bucks to fix it. That's the kind of thing that has a huge untapped market and I bet you could stay as busy as you wanted to once you earned a reputation as a problem solver, tackling jobs that would take a big shop weeks to get around to doing and which they're not properly geared to do. Better yet, do it better than they do, get the stuff exactly right, and make the cars work better than before. People will think you're a miracle-worker. Just a thought... You hit the nail on the head Matt. I've made a decent living doing just this for years. It does not matter if it is a Car, Tractor, or a Bulldozer. Most of the fixes are common sense fixes. Trouble is, who has commonsense nowadays??? Not many. Use to fix a lot of stuff for around $100 Bucks 25 or 30 years ago and the results would last for years. Sometime I would not hear from anyone for years and when I did hear from them I would say, " I thought you were mad at me, I haven't heard from you in a long time. There reply would be,. No, it's been working fine up until now. Yuppers. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rocky 72 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 9 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said: Working on cars is a tough way to make a buck and hard on your body. Restoration work even more demanding and unless you have a big name, no one wants to pay what the job is worth. I went from working on cars to working on houses because it was so much easier and paid better. If there is no demand where you are for a good carpenter there will be a hell of a lot less demand for expensive restoration work. The best thing to do is move somewhere else. I don't know what you can do to make a living where there are no jobs and nobody has any money. There is a demand for good trim carpenters but they want you to work for next to nothing ($12 per hour $15 after a few years) and that is if you supply your truck , tools , and fuel and they expect you to let the crew to use your tools , been there , done that . The prices of the jobs have not gone down the prices are up , way up and a lot of people here do have good paying jobs , not as many as before but still they make money . That's why my plan was (if I could get it to work) was to buy unfinished projects for a good price and finish and sell , or like some of the guys suggested do repair work on older cars . I really never planned on anyone in this area to buy any cars from me if they do that would be great but I wont hold my breath . If all else fails I do plan on selling out and moving . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 12 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said: Working on cars is a tough way to make a buck and hard on your body. Restoration work even more demanding and unless you have a big name, no one wants to pay what the job is worth. I went from working on cars to working on houses because it was so much easier and paid better. If there is no demand where you are for a good carpenter there will be a hell of a lot less demand for expensive restoration work. The best thing to do is move somewhere else. I don't know what you can do to make a living where there are no jobs and nobody has any money. I agree 100%, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 The thing about the restoration business is that the whole model is doomed from the very beginning. The reason is the math never works. A reasonable, knowledgeable owner brings his desirable car for a full restoration to a very competent & skilled shop. When the project is done, the restoration costs are more than the value of the car (not even including original purchase price). This tends to put even the most reasonable and knowledgeable owners in a bad mood. If you are building a house, the cost of carpentry or electrical or plumbing or anything else does not exceed the value of the house (usually). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Well, a couple of comments. Matt, you're correct. We have a fairly local restoration ship, was a one man operation but now 2 or 3, and the owner is an absolute master at fixing the little and sometimes bigger mechanical or electrical issues that make owning an old car a pain at times. I don't often pay other people to work on my cars, but don't hesitate to pay him when it's an issue I can't deal with, great value. As far as a "flawed model" of a restoration business, what you're leaving out are the people with lots of money, or a sentimental attachment to a car, and in those cases cash expenditure and final value become meaningless. I again point out that some of the same people who would complain about having $50K in an old car valued at $40k are the same people who might buy a $50K new car that's worth $20K a few years later, but you never hear a complaint about that..... This is a hobby, and it's not all about the money. The best way to be in the old car restoration business is to find your niche market. Paint, upholstery, mechanical....do one thing very, very well, and you'll have business at $40 to $60 an hour for as long as you want it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) 23 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: As someone who goes through A LOT of cars, I am constantly on the look out for someone who can solve problems. "Restored" cars are often just cosmetically nice, but mechanical nightmares, and no offense to the guys around here, but most collector car owners don't realize how bad their cars are because they have no basis for comparison. I drive a lot of different cars and the good ones quickly separate themselves from the bad ones. It is VERY hard to find a shop willing to turn a bad one into a good one, because it involves a lot of diverse jobs: wiring, cooling, gauges, alignments, rattle abatement, drivability issues (fuel or ignition), and things like that which get overlooked during the restoration process and everyone just lives with them because the fix is a pain in the neck. I know one young kid who works a day job as an engineer for an aircraft parts supplier, but his night/weekend job is fixing rattles and odd noises on old cars. Brilliant! I think there is a great demand for a jack-of-all-trades who can solve real problems. Forget bodywork and spraying paint, doing upholstery, and replacing chrome, there are a zillion shops that do that. There are plenty of engine builders and machine shops. But what every hobbyist needs, whether he knows it or not, is a guy who can solve little problems that every car has and most of us simply live with. The horn on my '29 Cadillac doesn't work because the insulation crumbled off the wire in the steering column and it honks constantly so I disconnected it. I can fix it myself but I don't, partly because of time and partly because it's a pain in the ass and partly because it's no big deal living without a horn, so I do. But I'd happily pay someone a few hundred bucks to fix it. That's the kind of thing that has a huge untapped market and I bet you could stay as busy as you wanted to once you earned a reputation as a problem solver, tackling jobs that would take a big shop weeks to get around to doing and which they're not properly geared to do. Better yet, do it better than they do, get the stuff exactly right, and make the cars work better than before. People will think you're a miracle-worker. Just a thought... This is reality. I specialized in servicing preserved original and restored cars as a part time hobby-job from about 1991 until 1999. I would restore components and fix the details of restored cars to make them steer, start, and stop. Believe me, you wouldn't want to throw the keys to the wife and send her to the corner for a gallon of milk in a freshly restored car. The great part was that I didn't have to deal with any virgins. The restoration shop took care of that for me. In the early '90's most owners had about $30,000 tied up in a typical car. I did a few very non-typical as well. I would tell a new client that if they stacked up all their receipts, even the hidden ones, they were probably about 90% home. And, on an average, I would say a car needed about $3,000 of mechanical work to make them reliable. I serviced about 35 cars regularly and averaged about $1,000 each annually. That's a pretty full plate when you add 8 hours of power plant operation on top of it. But it is a long way from making a living. There are about 200 working days per year. If you can schedule work for 75% of them you are doing real good. If you work 10 hours at $50 per hour you get $75,000 BEFORE you start paying for stuff. It doesn't take long to get back to that $12-15 per hr and provide your truck. $200,000 to $250,000 with one helper is a sweet spot. Your risk is just under $1,000 per working day. Take five days off for a vacation, deduct five grand. If the only thing you are selling is labor there is a finite supply. And you need to score about $100 per hour to cover expenses and have a few bags of groceries. There is a lot, lot, lot of restoration rework out there and it is good work with appreciative customers. But it has to flow quickly. Bernie Edited June 25, 2016 by 60FlatTop (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 There is more bs tossed around on these forums than at a Texas rodeo. We have been restoring professionally for 37 years and have more work right now than we've ever had. All of our customers know going in that they will likely spend more than their car is worth, usually much more. The secret to making a living restoring cars, other than developing the obvious skill set etc is to establish a following with those folks who measure "worth" in other ways than just by "price". We were basically broke when we started. We've managed to make a decent living and have had one helluva lot of fun along the way. The hardest lesson to learn is that you MUST work time and materials. Sell your services by the hour, be good at what you do, don't be greedy, and you'll do ok. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Dave, Not fair to compare with a new car who's purpose is to get somebody to and from their job - not be a piece of rolling art work. I've seen enough frazzled restorers and unhappy customers in situations where nobody did anything wrong to realize it is not a great business to be in. I might be too hung up thinking about high dollar complete restorations and perhaps there is a happy niche to be found somewhere doing sorting and mechanical work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 I still believe it's a valid comparison. There are a lot of new automobiles bought for reasons other than getting back and forth to work. If that was the only requirement or desire, everyone would drive the least expensive car available that was able to get from point A to B. But people don't do that, they buy expensive vehicles to either satisfy their ego or be showing off, and don't even look at overall cost, but "how much per month". A lot of disposable income gone, victim of depreciation. People look at things differently. The unfortunate thing that happened in the old car hobby, in my opinion, is that cars changed from being a hobby and labor of love to an "investment". It's supposed to be a hobby, and as such, usually costs more to be involved in than it will return. Ask a hunter or a golfer about how much their passion has "returned", and the only answer is pleasure from the activity. They have no asset, other than, respectively, duck feathers and a set of clubs. The cost is never recovered, yet for some reason people are thinking that the same should not be true of collecting and restoring antique cars. And yes, there is a very nice niche for sorting and mechanical work. A lot of cars are "restored" to be visually pleasing, yet are dogs to drive. The AACA is a great club, but just look at the judging guidelines. All cosmetic, and as long as the car can limp on to the show field, it can be a high point car. I saw a beautiful Model A at Hershey a couple of years ago, it was struggling to make it on the field, hitting on 3 or less cylinders, yet that isn't even considered in judging. Someone who can take a car like that, sort it out, and make it a pleasure to drive, is an individual who will be busy quite a bit... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 When I first started doing work for other people, and I don't anymore, I had a client who owned all the icons but didn't have a car to drive. All were restored. If anyone thinks TEXAS has BS try some restorers in western New York. You'd swear Niagara Falls is a big toilet being flushed. He had a '55 T-bird but it barely ran. The first time he called me his '59 Caddy convert had stalled in the driveway and wouldn't start after driving it home from purchasing. The litany on their condition would even bore me. After about four years of my work his biggest problem was choosing the set of keys rather than which car might run. Tip: If you pressurize the cooling system of a 1959 Caddy you shouldn't hear water running into the engine. And the white smoke that was diagnosed as a lean carburetor works for boilers but not cars. Body shops do make pretty restorations. And mechanics restore cars that run good. We visited an auction together once. The only criteria for evaluating a car on walking up was the finish of the window fur strips and door edges at the window channel. Boy! Did we save time. I own a car right now; it's in my garage. I bought it two years ago and it has receipts from a well known shop for a brake job, new fuel and brake lines, a new clutch and a few incidentals. I have been working through a redo of the shoddy work. The car is a looong time neglected project that was the old man's dream. It is not pretty. If they were capable of better work the only other reason for what I find is that they were trying to dissuade him from bringing a car that did not meet "their" "standards". Every time I work on it I ask if they did these things just to make him go away. It is hard to imagine but it is all I think. It is really hard work to redo all the systems and cosmetics of a car. I know body shop guys with really nice paint jobs and they admit it took two or three applications. The trouble with time and materials is only being able to afford one paint job. Bernie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) 20 hours ago, trimacar said: Ask a hunter or a golfer about how much their passion has "returned", and the only answer is pleasure from the activity. They have no asset, other than, respectively, duck feathers and a set of clubs.... Well said, David! There's more to life than money, and you have a way with words. Edited June 26, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midman Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 21 hours ago, trimacar said: I still believe it's a valid comparison. There are a lot of new automobiles bought for reasons other than getting back and forth to work. If that was the only requirement or desire, everyone would drive the least expensive car available that was able to get from point A to B. But people don't do that, they buy expensive vehicles to either satisfy their ego or be showing off, and don't even look at overall cost, but "how much per month". A lot of disposable income gone, victim of depreciation. People look at things differently. The unfortunate thing that happened in the old car hobby, in my opinion, is that cars changed from being a hobby and labor of love to an "investment". It's supposed to be a hobby, and as such, usually costs more to be involved in than it will return. Ask a hunter or a golfer about how much their passion has "returned", and the only answer is pleasure from the activity. They have no asset, other than, respectively, duck feathers and a set of clubs. The cost is never recovered, yet for some reason people are thinking that the same should not be true of collecting and restoring antique cars. And yes, there is a very nice niche for sorting and mechanical work. A lot of cars are "restored" to be visually pleasing, yet are dogs to drive. The AACA is a great club, but just look at the judging guidelines. All cosmetic, and as long as the car can limp on to the show field, it can be a high point car. I saw a beautiful Model A at Hershey a couple of years ago, it was struggling to make it on the field, hitting on 3 or less cylinders, yet that isn't even considered in judging. Someone who can take a car like that, sort it out, and make it a pleasure to drive, is an individual who will be busy quite a bit... David, you are right on the mark. I've followed this thread for a few days just rolling my eyes at some of the comments. This is a hobby and everyone I know in it expects to spend more then they get back on a car. I don't hang out with the investor crowd. Most like to say they've come out ahead but my quess is they are like that British show where they buy a car and tell you how much they made on it but never count the labor. HA, that is funny. The pleasure of owning, driving and for me, working on my vehicles is the payoff, and I have never found a decent wrench, body, upholstery or paint person for anything south of $50 an hour. Maybe in Sri Lanka but not in the US of A. Like most businesses, and it's already been mentioned, if you have the talent, the drive, the business sense and the capital (or other job) to get started you will succeed working on other peoples cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 On 6/24/2016 at 3:33 PM, Rocky 72 said: Isn't it really cold there ? I thought about moving to Tennessee where its warmer . Rocky, Depends on where you are. Denver is a mess, so forget that one, Colorado Springs has about the same weather as St Louis, bit a lot less humid and a lot fewer bugs. Pueblo is HOT. Off the front range Grand Junction out west gets a bit hot in July, but the winter is very mild, and there is a good car community there. Lots of building in the Springs and lots of car clubs too. If I ever come down out of the mountains, C/S is for me...... Mike in Colorado Where if you want to shovel snow, you have to get up early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 On 2016-06-25 at 7:36 AM, Rocky 72 said: There is a demand for good trim carpenters but they want you to work for next to nothing ($12 per hour $15 after a few years) and that is if you supply your truck , tools , and fuel and they expect you to let the crew to use your tools , been there , done that . The prices of the jobs have not gone down the prices are up , way up and a lot of people here do have good paying jobs , not as many as before but still they make money . That's why my plan was (if I could get it to work) was to buy unfinished projects for a good price and finish and sell , or like some of the guys suggested do repair work on older cars . I really never planned on anyone in this area to buy any cars from me if they do that would be great but I wont hold my breath . If all else fails I do plan on selling out and moving . You already explained that you live in an area with a failing economy where nobody has any money. I don't know how you can make money where there isn't any. I could suggest you go into business on your own as a carpenter or handyman but if there is no money there is no money. I found there is lots of demand for a home repair person or handyman and you can make good money if you charge by the job not by the hour. If people can't afford to have their kitchen taps replaced they can't afford a full restoration on an old car. I live in a fairly prosperous area but found nobody wanted to pay what it was worth to fix their old car. They had some phantasy that I could do 2 weeks work in a day and charge $500 for $5000 worth of work. They want you to take the bread out of your children's mouths so they can have a play toy. It may be hard to find a good mechanic but it is even harder to find a customer who can tell a good mechanic from a bad one, and is willing to pay what the job is worth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yachtflame Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Another thought if you are a good carpenter would be antique speedboats. I restore both cars and boats. When I get tired of saw dust, I move to working on grease! The antique speedboat community always needs a good carpenter or you could restore a boat on spec. Just a thought. wayne Elsworth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I have been working on classic cars since I was 16. And have owned a custom car shop for about 13 years. And have walked a line between restored classic cars on one side, and street rods and customs on the other. And I can tell you for a fact that if you do a really good job. You will find yourself in the cross hairs. The AACA has a email that is sent out called the speedster. In one a few months ago a person was asking for people to speak at the fall meet. While I am not a public speaker, if my story was told your jaw would drop to the floor. Like so many things in this country, some aspects of this "hobby/industry" are pretty messed up. I am in it for the cars, some people are in it for different reasons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 13 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said: that if you do a really good job. You will find yourself in the cross hairs. Would you please explain that statement? Do you mean you'll find yourself in demand, or that you'll find yourself in trouble? I do know, from being involved with one well known restoration shop, that there sometimes are disgruntled customers, which makes the gruntled customers all the more pleasurable. I also know that lawsuits aren't uncommon, and are often won by customer, even with contracts and checks signed willingly by customer..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 3 hours ago, trimacar said: I also know that lawsuits aren't uncommon, and are often won by customer, even with contracts and checks signed willingly by customer..... That's the scary part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Business owners have been in trouble since the first movie showed a landlord tie a young maiden to the railroad tracks. Pick up a movie, any movie, you won't see a business owner in a white hat. Ask that "other" Bernie. He'll tell you. I had my own nephew do a major job on my convertible. I was trying to teach him the importance of communication and timely billing. It was a fight to get a weekly itemized invoice from him, the point I tried to impress. Trouble starts when men do work for men and men pay men. Men are too easy about handling money and letting things slide. What seems small grows and turns into big problems. Anyone who has a woman taking care of their accounts receivable knows how aggressive they are. But that is a legal, licensed, code meeting, tax paying shop. The side garage home hobby shop IS in the cross hairs. It didn't happen to me, but I know of a casual shop that racked up about $5,000 against a car and the owner just refused to pay. He said he would turn in the hobby shop and the couple of under the table helpers. Period. That's leaving yourself open. And the general public has already been indoctrinated that the business owner is a bad guy. Well, break is over, back to work.... not fixin' cars! Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 4 hours ago, 60FlatTop said: Business owners have been in trouble since the first movie showed a landlord tie a young maiden to the railroad tracks. Pick up a movie, any movie, you won't see a business owner in a white hat. Bernie Bernie, being you mentioned it I can think of one business owner in a white hat portrayed in film we can't forget Don Fanucci in "The Godfather Part II"? I think he was in the "protection business" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 You're fairly safe with the guy above. He's predictable. With the Irish, you gotta be careful. A hint of larcency and lace curtains. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Bernie, I don't think Don Fannuci, was concerned about being sued, although Don Corleone (Robert DeNiro) sort of did a hostile takeover of Fannuci's business. I LOVE those Godfather films! I remember when they were filming them my Dad took his 39 Pontiac to a hanger at Kennedy Airport where the cars were selected, It was taken out three times but we never found it in the movie, ended up on the floor, sorry to go off topic, but just make sure that there are no Don Fannuci's selling glass insurance when you open your business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Not really sure what people are taking away from my post. I think my story is not much different then a lot of people in this hobby/industry, mine having a few more twists and turns. We have all seen the movie Tucker a man and his dreams. What happens in the movie is alive and well in this part of the country. If you are good at what you do, yes you can be a target by people wanting you to do their work. That is how it should be, do a good job and the word of mouth carries you. But the flip side of it is, do a good job and you can be seen as a threat to other shops, or people who want to lock you down and try and own you. And then you get into how far will people go? If in a big city people get harmed over a pair of tennis shoes. Is it a stretch to think that people will not jack with other peoples stuff? I am a legal tax paying shop, I am a dealer for aftermarket parts, I have built cars that have been in shows. And what I can tell you for a fact is that some people seem to know no limits in what they will do. And I think it is reflective of where we are at as a country. No matter what your own personal opinions are , I think we all agree that a free and fair market system that we can compete in, works best for us all as a whole. Great work, customer service, fair price. These are all things that made our automotive industry the envy of the world. But in my opinion we have been taken down a road that has turned the work environment for small businesses in to a battle ground. For a small business owner in any field, in this country you and your assets are viewed as fair game to a run away legal system, and people who actively set out to bring harm to companies. It is called predatory capitalism. I could not imagine how bad it would be on a large scale corporate level. People have put a lot of effort in to dividing shops around here by say one thing to one person and another to some one else just to create division, so shops do not talk to one another. That way people can get one shop to think this and another to think that. I am sure that what I am saying, people will just say. Well that is just hard ball business. I guess I understand that part??? But when people pull the rug out from under companies to try and take them out, and drive people into thinking harm will come to them if they do not drink the kool aid and play ball. Then we as a country have let things go to far. It appears to me that there are people who think that you can make good money with small businesses. But not from owning the Business, from owning the owner of the business. If our goal is to pass the torch on to the next generation of car builders and restorers. Then fixing the way some things are done in our "hobby" would be a good thing for us and for the youth wanting to get involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Xander, you might want to consider the services of someone like Don Fannuci to "talk" to these other businessmen (just joking) All kidding aside things are tough on small business's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 There are other guys in white hats that I would stand with long before the one shown above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 TOP O' THE MORNIN' , BERNIE ! (Well , it still is morning here on the west coast). Man , thanks for your great sense of humor ! I can be having a bit of a down day , and end up laughing heartily upon enjoying one of your gems ! Brings me right around ! Thanks again , I'm still chuckling. - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 "Restraint is my least recognized attribute" If you only knew the things I don't say or write. The O'Dalaigh''s do for sport what those tough guys took serious. I thought The Departed was a PBS documentary on my cousin Kenny! Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 (edited) On 6/28/2016 at 2:42 PM, 60FlatTop said: 18 hours ago, 60FlatTop said: You're fairly safe with the guy above. He's predictable. With the Irish, you gotta be careful. A hint of larcency and lace curtains. Bernie, you got the look you just need the pinky ring! Did you ever notice the Don Fannuci type "businessmen" all look like mobsters? You don't have to tell me about the Irish as business partners, or protective services, after all I am a BIC (Bronx Irish Catholic) I lived in Da Bronx when it was a real good place to live, now.......... not so much. As my Father said, the only Irish left in the Bronx are in a pine box in St Raymond's Cemetery, his last words were to me "whatever you do don't bury me in the Bronx" (I left out the a few unneeded words) Good stuff! I sent you a PM with a story you might enjoy Edited June 29, 2016 by John348 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Well , youse guys have stimulated my curiosity. Today or tomorrow I will be picking up my E550 being serviced at W.I. Simonon M-B in Santa Monica. They are not far from Whitey B. 's last stand. I think I will give a tourist's eye to his calm , peaceful retreat. Corner of , ahhhh , I think 2nd or 3rd , and , let's see , what was it ? Oh , never mind. I'll find it. And to keep this posting automotive , some will , some will not yet know how great these E550s are. Particularly the '07s and '08s , less confusing command center , and being earlier , more affordable. I checked Craigslist , L.A. , and you can get a well kept one with low (60k 's miles) for mid 'teens. These magnificent cars harness almost 400 steeds and likewise torque. And handle ? Can I get a witness ! Drive one. Buy a good one with obsessive service record. I think the 550 was about $10 grand more than the 350 of the period. Now the difference in price is negligible. No offense , but driving a 350 just doesn't even seem to be a M-B to me , being accustomed to my 550. I think a good low mileage E550 is about the best relatively modern automotive bargain you can get. Depreciation has pretty much already happened. Try one. You will love it ! There. I have fulfilled my responsibility to maintain a car focus. You other guys with your much appreciated wit , I hope you continue your wonderful humor ! Thanks , guys ! - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 restoring cars for a living? bad idea.................... as a side job for fun- a niche type thing- go for it, but dont expect to become rich. do it for the fun of it or dont do it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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