Conclusion about early automobiling in the summer

[mrcvs]

I took my 1917 Maxwell for a spin yesterday, and, don't get me wrong, I had a blast.

 

Temperature had to be 90 deg F, or more...

 

Of course, pre-dates air conditioning, had top down, still was dripping sweat when I was done...

 

Automobiling in the summer months had to have been a sweat-filled proposition.  Is there any mention of this in the literature and/or what did affluent individuals, who would never be seen in public actually breaking a sweat, do to counter this?

[Matt Harwood]

I'm pretty sure people were quite stinky in the pre-A/C days and before indoor plumbing, I bet it was an exquisite mixture of B.O., cigarette smoke, and perfume everywhere you went. That's why motorists would bundle up, even in the summer--because the dust from the road would stick to their sweaty skin and really make a mess. I wasn't there, I may be wrong, but as you point out, it's impossible to not sweat behind the wheel of an old car and if the roads were dirty and your next shower was days away, well, it's not hard to imagine...

 

I remain convinced that A/C is the single greatest invention ever created by man.

[Restorer32]

Friday I visited the Old Order Amish foundry we use. 92 degrees. Middle of the afternoon they made home made ice cream, turning the freezer with a steam engine. Ice cream finished they treated all their employees. Heat does't seem to bother them, even though they are dressed in black. All in what you get used to I suppose.

[Phillip Cole]

Arthur Miller had a great article on New York during the summer in pre-Depression days in The New Yorker in 1998. Does not mention car driving, but he did mention the smell.

Linen suits and dresses were popular in the early 20th century...

[Restorer32]

I would imagine riding behind a horse on a hot day wasn't all that pleasant either. Amish buggies have no a/c but they do have brakes, sometimes drums, sometimes disc.

[61polara]

One tip I can give you is to drive with the top up and you will be cooler in the shade.

[Mark Shaw]

I agree with 61polara, and add that you should keep the back window rolled up too!

[John348]

3 hours ago, mrcvs said:

I took my 1917 Maxwell for a spin yesterday, and, don't get me wrong, I had a blast.

 

Temperature had to be 90 deg F, or more...

 

Of course, pre-dates air conditioning, had top down, still was dripping sweat when I was done...

 

Automobiling in the summer months had to have been a sweat-filled proposition.  Is there any mention of this in the literature and/or what did affluent individuals, who would never be seen in public actually breaking a sweat, do to counter this?

 

As hot as it was in the Maxwell it was more comfortable then a horse, which was the automobile's competition.

 

2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

I remain convinced that A/C is the single greatest invention ever created by man.

 

It is up there on the list. I recall hearing that Walt Disney knew that commercial and residential a/c and that was part of his inspiration for the location of Disney World, the price of land was cheap, and affordable a/c would make the place habitable. If it were not for a/c the state of Florida would be pretty much an uninhabited swamp

 

 

45 minutes ago, Phillip Cole said:

Arthur Miller had a great article on New York during the summer in pre-Depression days in The New Yorker in 1998. Does not mention car driving, but he did mention the smell.

Linen suits and dresses were popular in the early 20th century...

 

NYC still smells rather ripe in these modern times, just take a ride in the subway system during a 90+ degree week, you can smell the odor as you walk past the stairs going down to the platform. I am glad I retired and don't have to go into the big apple every day any more

 

Picked up my buddy this morning and went for a ride in my 50 Chevy to a local Buick show, he commented how cool the car was in the 90 degree heat as long as we were moving, he is right!

[Restorer32]

My theory is that there are only 2 or 3 days per year when it is actually comfortable to ride in a convertible with the top down. Usually either too hot, too cold or too wet.

[John_S_in_Penna]

One account I read from the 19th century was about workmen.

Theirs was a hotter and dirtier job than merely driving a wagon, but

an observer noted that the backs of their necks were so

crusted with dirt that one could almost plant and grow seeds there!

 

Not only do we have air conditioning when needed, but

indoor plumbing makes bathing more than once a week

possible when needed!

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

One account I read from the 19th century was about workmen.

Theirs was a hotter and dirtier job than merely driving a wagon, but

an observer noted that the backs of their necks were so

crusted with dirt that one could almost plant and grow seeds there!

 

Not only do we have air conditioning when needed, but

indoor plumbing makes bathing more than once a week

possible when needed!

Then their bed linens must have also been filthy! 

[MCHinson]

The first air conditioned car that my family owned was a 1969 Mercury Montego wagon. For the first 9 years of my life we did not have any air conditioned cars. I don't remember exactly when we got air conditioning in the house but it was probably in the 1970s. Back in those days we seemed to be just fine with open windows and a whole house exhaust fan creating a steady breeze. I also remember how cold it got in my upstairs bedroom in the winter with one oil burning heater in the middle of the first floor of the house. Back then, we simply got acclimated to it and did fine.

 

Now, even my garage is air conditioned in hot weather and heated in the winter. As long as it is under about 85 degrees, I enjoy driving my 1937 Buick. It is a little warm when stopped, but the ventilation system works well when moving. When it is over about 85 degrees, I typically drive one of my air conditioned cars. I guess we are just too used to the comfort of central air conditioning now. I guess that is part of the fun of the older cars. You get to experience the feeling of an earlier time in history. In the near future I will be driving my 1937 Buick on the Sentimental Tour. I expect it will be a bit uncomfortably hot on the tour. Being used to the air conditioning, I am sure I will enjoy the air conditioned lodging each night of the tour, but the drive in the heat will still be fun!

[Phillip Cole]

On the other hand, early cars didn't have heaters either...?

[capngrog]

4 hours ago, John348 said:

 

 If it were not for a/c the state of Florida would be pretty much an uninhabited swamp

 

I remember the days here in Florida before air conditioning became widely available, and we did just fine, thank you.  Unfortunately, air conditioning became widely available and the beautiful State of Florida was overrun by a bunch of Yankees, who keep telling us how great it is "Back Home" ... although they are right here in Florida.

 

Just sayin',

Grog

[nickelroadster]

My 1915 Olds has an aluminum floorboard.  It was supposed to be a bit upscale at the time.  It transmits a lot of heat to the passenger compartment so  Touring in forty degree temps is just fine but in the summer anything over eighty degrees can be quite toasty..  Unfortunately here in GA it is hot a lot of the time and I try to do my touring in the spring and the fall.  It was probably a lot easier to put up with high temps when you didn't have an air conditioned house.  Nobody wore short sleeved shirts and shorts back then either.

Edited May 30, 2016 by nickelroadster (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

It all a matter of what you are accustomed to. I don't have AC in my car or my house... its been in the 90s this week. I really don't even think about it unless I've got three hours of mowing to do and then I just take a break and drink lots of water. I also think that this mad obsession with personal comfort is a fairly modern development.

[John348]

2 hours ago, capngrog said:

 

I remember the days here in Florida before air conditioning became widely available, and we did just fine, thank you.  Unfortunately, air conditioning became widely available and the beautiful State of Florida was overrun by a bunch of Yankees, who keep telling us how great it is "Back Home" ... although they are right here in Florida.

 

Just sayin',

Grog

 

'Cool down' my friend, I did not mean for anyone (you) to take my comment personal, I was just pointing out if it were not for the advent of affordable A/C us "Yankees" or for that matter nobody else would be overrunning the state of Florida. The same can be said for many other parts of this country also. YES if it were not for A/C I would not own any property there.

 

 I will never tell you how great it is "back home" the only thing you will hear from me that is better "back home" is the pizza and bagels, the rate of pay, and that there are no snakes up north (where I am from anyway)

Edited May 30, 2016 by John348 (see edit history)

[John348]

3 hours ago, Phillip Cole said:

On the other hand, early cars didn't have heaters either...?

 

They also had no way to plow the snow on the roads for them to drive on

[Joe in Canada]

34 minutes ago, John348 said:

 

'Cool down' my friend, I did not mean for anyone (you) to take my comment personal, I was just pointing out if it were not for the advent of affordable A/C us "Yankees" or for that matter nobody else would be overrunning the state of Florida. The same can be said for many other parts of this country also. YES if it were not for A/C I would not own any property there.

 

 I will never tell you how great it is "back home" the only thing you will hear from me that is better "back home" is the pizza and bagels, the rate of pay, and that there are no snakes up north (where I am from anyway)

Well good thing you said ( were I am from anyway ) as I am further north than you up here in Canada. As we have  Massasauga Rattlers up here but they are rare.

As for  an A/C we are headed for N Carolina for the Sentimental tour next week and my top does not come down and no A/C. But I did have the mechanism to raise my windshield up to get some air flow to the floor area replaced as I understand it may get a touch warm down there in June. But I do have A/C in my home thankfully as we hit a high of 28 today. I will let you think about that one!

Edited May 30, 2016 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

8 hours ago, Phillip Cole said:

Arthur Miller had a great article on New York during the summer in pre-Depression days in The New Yorker in 1998. Does not mention car driving, but he did mention the smell.

Linen suits and dresses were popular in the early 20th century...

 

Don't you mean 1898??? We didn't stink that bad in 1998 as I remember? We had showers and all... Dandy Dave! Well, Maybe not some of the Folks in NYC.... But us upstate farm boys know what water and soap is.  

Edited May 30, 2016 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

2 hours ago, capngrog said:

 

I remember the days here in Florida before air conditioning became widely available, and we did just fine, thank you.  Unfortunately, air conditioning became widely available and the beautiful State of Florida was overrun by a bunch of Yankees, who keep telling us how great it is "Back Home" ... although they are right here in Florida.

 

Just sayin',

Grog

 

I should have been born a Reb. Why God planted me here in the middle yankee land I have no idea??? Other than to stir things up maybe... But I'm heading to a better place in the near future. Turn up the heat baby cause winters up here basically suck. Dandy Dave! 

[capngrog]

42 minutes ago, John348 said:

 

'Cool down' my friend, I did not mean for anyone (you) to take my comment personal, I was just pointing out if it were not for the advent of affordable A/C us "Yankees" or for that matter nobody else would be overrunning the state of Florida. The same can be said for many other parts of this country also. YES if it were not for A/C I would not own any property there.

 

 I will never tell you how great it is "back home" the only thing you will hear from me that is better "back home" is the pizza and bagels, the rate of pay, and that there are no snakes up north (where I am from anyway)

 

Thanks for reinforcing my point.  You have said it all.

 

Cheers,

Grog

[John348]

29 minutes ago, capngrog said:

 

Thanks for reinforcing my point.  You have said it all.

 

Cheers,

Grog

 

I knew you would understand, there would be a state income tax because there would be very little outside money coming in from tourism. Next time you think about not having to pay state income tax, be grateful of that invention of A/C that brought in money from all over the world to the state of Florida. 

I am not looking for an argument or a debate so I really don't know why I get the feeling you are. The Civil War ended a long time ago, and the only Yankee's I know play baseball, although I would not it if I did play for them, but reffering to people as Yankee's is demeaning, no need for that in this day an age. but I am sure you did not mean it that way,

A/C had a large economic impact, again reinforcing Matt's comment as one of the greatest inventions. The state of Florida is a perfect example of that economic impact, without A/C would a large part of the state would be an uninhabbital swap, safe bet on that my firend. I did not mean to disrespect anyone who was born in the State of Florida, so lighten up.  Heck I'm from the Bronx, so I know what an uninhabbital place is, insult it all you want, feel free....

The bagels and pizza is better in the Bronx.

So let's let this go

Edited May 30, 2016 by John348 (see edit history)

[padgett]

oh the mythconceptions.

 

I grew up in South Florida before AC was generally available. Population in winter was 35,000, summer 5,000

 

Don't remember it hitting 90. Would get to about 88 by the 3:30 rainstorm (could set your clock) and it would drop 10 degrees

 

Do remember taking a shower at bedtime and going to bed wet (can make a remarkable difference, in my SCCA days pit crew had a bucket of water and a quart of chocolate milk ready when I came in)

 

Helped son a while ago with a school project: figured the increased population, ACs, and autos were raising the temp over the state by 5 degrees in the last 100 years and creating an artificial high pressure area. Effect was to deflect hurr and himmicanes not coming straight at the coast elsewhere. Afternoon rainstorm is now iffy and mid-90s are common.

 

Florida has no income tax because not enough people have incomes and we have a militant retirement population with nothing else to do. (70 is the new 50).

 

More to the original point, convertible weather is mid-September to June. Natives always seek shade.

 

All of my cars have working AC. My camper even has AC when dry camping. (they said it couldn't be done).

 

[mrcvs]

Well, the top was down because I generally keep it that way because I cannot make it into the garage otherwise.  I Do prefer to ride with the top up, other than for this most practical reason.

 

I lived nearly a decade in Virginia in a house that lacked air conditioning and I did just fine. When hot, sat by a fan, and had no problems. Now reside in Pennsylvania in a house with central air, and ever since then, the summers have seemed hotter and more unbearable.

 

When I lived the better part of my life without air conditioning...well, you just can't miss what you never had!

[John348]

53 minutes ago, mrcvs said:

Well, the top was down because I generally keep it that way because I cannot make it into the garage otherwise.  I Do prefer to ride with the top up, other than for this most practical reason.

 

I lived nearly a decade in Virginia in a house that lacked air conditioning and I did just fine. When hot, sat by a fan, and had no problems. Now reside in Pennsylvania in a house with central air, and ever since then, the summers have seemed hotter and more unbearable.

 

When I lived the better part of my life without air conditioning...well, you just can't miss what you never had!

 

This is so true! Did you ever notice how hot a new car is to drive with the windows down and the A/C off, the ride is almost intolerable with the wind noise but yet an old car that never had A/C with the windows down and the VENT WINDOWS open is pefectly comfortable, as long as it is moving? Today on Long Island was hot and humid. My wife and I took our 50 Chevy for a ride to our sons house, windows down vents open and the car was comfortable actually cooled you down. After reading this thread it dawned on me why Dad took us on rides to nowhere on hot days in 'da Bronx when I was a kid. It was just to cool off. My wife was telling me how her Dad did the same, but we both never realized why until tonight.

 

Yes I am sure that Maxwell was hot even it it's day, but sitting on a horse had to be much hotter

[mrcvs]

If moving, the Maxwell isn't bad! In hindsight, 90% of the sweating may have occurred when I stopped to put air in the tires in the hot sun!

 

My regular driver has no a.c. either, and as 95% of my driving in it is 10 miles or less, and it is usually not sweltering hot, it isn't bad. I would be lying if I did not admit that my company car does have a.c., and that is the vast majority of my driving. Even so, I believe I am more likely than most to hold off on the a.c. until it simply is really unbearable.

[oldcarfudd]

Last week I participated in a 4-day HCCA tour in Pennsylvania.  On each of the last 3 days the temperature was in the 80s; it got to 88 on Thursday.  My wife and I were riding in a '13 Model T with the top down and the windshield folded.  Shorts, T-shirts, and lots of sun block.  It was fairly comfortable when we were moving, and absolutely delightful when we drove through a patch of shade, or alongside some water.  I wrote up the tour for the HCCA website; you can read about it and see pictures here:

 

http://boards.hcca.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=951

 

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ 

[Phillip Cole]

9 hours ago, Dandy Dave said:

 

Don't you mean 1898??? We didn't stink that bad in 1998 as I remember? We had showers and all... Dandy Dave! Well, Maybe not some of the Folks in NYC.... But us upstate farm boys know what water and soap is.  

Nope, the article was in The New Yorker in 1998, written about the summer of 1927. Arthur Miller was 12 in 1927. These were his recollections as a child.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Phillip Cole (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

Oh... OK.  Dandy Dave!

[capngrog]

9 hours ago, John348 said:

 " ... reffering to people as Yankee's is demeaning, ... " 

 

Well, that's news to my friends, most of whom are Yankees and seem to be proud of it (for some reason).  Even here in rural Paisley, Florida, most of the crowd at the local pub are Yankees, but nobody notices since that's pretty much the normal thing around here.  Many mango seasons ago, I was born in Tampa, Florida to my Mom who was a sixth generation Florida Cracker, and to my Dad who was ... Uh, Oh ... a Yankee from Hackensack, New Jersey.   I'm not sure where that leaves me: Semi-Reb or Half-Yank, except that it makes me All American, which is what most of us on this Forum are proud to be.

 

Insofar as "Automobiling in the summer" is concerned, none of my cars except my daily driver (2009 Ford Explorer) has working air conditioning.  I rely on the old "50 - 50" air conditioning: 50 degrees Fahrenheit or 50 miles per hour.  Note that I had to be explicit in my units of measure here lest "Joe In Canada" believe that I was thinking "Metric".  I actually prefer Metric, but that would be the subject of an entirely different rant ... I digress, and I apologize.  Of course, I try, at all costs, to avoid stop-and-go traffic situations which can be a major sweat bath.  Planning my trip for short legs and frequent stops at air conditioned facilities for a cool beverage also makes the experience more enjoyable.  If no air conditioned facilities are handy, a stop under a nice shade tree can be refreshing.  As mrcvs said, I believe that we have become "conditioned" to air conditioning and are sensitive to the lack of it just because it has become the "norm" in our lives.

 

Cheers,

Grog

 

 

 

 

[Joe in Canada]

New cars do not have vent windows or floor vents. Remember when Astro Ventilation came out doing away quarter window and floor drafts and all you had was a blower motor to get air to the floor. This was a major cost savings for the car manufactures  and forcing people to get A/C for more money. Just my thoughts.

[R Walling]

 My first car in the fifties was a 55 Chrysler four door.

 We traveled to the drag races and that car had vent windows that blew a beautiful cool breeze while moving. It also had a direct cowl vent right in the middle of the firewall at the foot level.

 

Why they took them out of the new cars is beyond me, unless it was in order to sell AC.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2016 by Roger Walling (see edit history)

[padgett]

When we took the GMC to my friend's new home last September, the AC (nor the alternator but is a different story) was thoroughly ex. He had a pair of clear plastic air deflectors that mounted at the front of the window and directed a blast of air toward the seat. A quick look did not find them, anyone have a name/vendor ? Made a real difference.

 

Back in the day, footwell ventilators were common and on GM cars were removed when you had AC. My 150s had little openable scoops on the fenders, E-type did not. Brit cars were not very good about ventilation, why I really liked FIATs, they did.

Edited May 30, 2016 by padgett (see edit history)

[mrcvs]

1 hour ago, Roger Walling said:

 My first car in the fifties was a 55 Chrysler four door.

 We traveled to the drag races and that car had vent windows that blew a beautiful cool breeze while moving. It also had a direct cowl vent right in the middle of the firewall at the foot level.

 

Why they took them out of the new cars is beyond me, unless it was in order to sell AC.

 

 

I heard repeatedly that vent windows were eliminated due to COST.

[John348]

1 hour ago, padgett said:

. Brit cars were not very good about ventilation,

 

Very true, but again what is a warm day in British Isles?

[Joe in Canada]

Now in 1947 to 55 Chevy pickups only the early ones had no vent windows. Funny thing is they are the ones that most people want for that clean look. Unless the truck has Vintage Air I think I would want vent windows on a hot day.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Joe in Canada said:

New cars do not have vent windows or floor vents. Remember when Astro Ventilation came out doing away quarter window and floor drafts and all you had was a blower motor to get air to the floor. This was a major cost savings for the car manufactures  and forcing people to get A/C for more money. Just my thoughts.

 I don't know what you consider what new or old in cars to be.

 

One of my cars which happens to be 47 years old does not have vent windows. I ordered it new with A/C. It seems for most of the 1969 GM models GM decided that a flow thru ventilation system would do the trick, it does not. Most people found out that the only way to stay cool was to order A/C.

Check out this, here is a new for 1938 body style and borne original without vented or" wind wings". 1953 would be the first year for vent wings for VW.

 

.

Here, below is one of my favorites, a car that you don't see much today that has a better looking ( IMO) than a deluxe The 1938 Ford Standard. Guess what ? No vent wings!

 

 BYW,  the  1938 Ford and the 1938 VW  beetle body styling are in the very same body styling time cycle  that will soon start to change for U.S. Built cars. The thing these two cars share is the recessed streamlined front headlamps with the covered protective and streamlined headlamp cover, the same type of fender styling, running boards and wide five wheels. The beetle however does have a better drag coefficient because of it's sloping hood. But NO vent wings.  

Edited May 30, 2016 by helfen (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Ferdinand Porsche toured the US in 1937 with special attention to the auto factories. He took a hard look at the new Fords and especially the rear engine experimental sedan that gave birth to the Lincoln Zephyr and inspired the 37 Ford line. In addition to styling he pirated the "wide 5" wheel bolt idea for VW.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Ferdinand Porsche toured the US in 1937 with special attention to the auto factories. He took a hard look at the new Fords and especially the rear engine experimental sedan that gave birth to the Lincoln Zephyr and inspired the 37 Ford line. In addition to styling he pirated the "wide 5" wheel bolt idea for VW.

 

Porsche didn't pirate the body design as much as Ford pirated the design from Chrysler Airflow or some of the aerodynamic designs coming from Tatra or Mercedes of this era. The styling cycle refers to all cars of a particular era. What about the little NSU car that Porsche made the type 12 that was his basis for the beetle.  As far as wheels go, I'm afraid Ford got those wheels from Kelsey Hayes who also made Wheels for GM  and Chrysler and other concerns.

Let's not let this thread get out of control.