Cadillac LaSalle Club changes policy

[alsancle]

Sorry, but the truth that hurts is that people collect cars that were popular when they were kids.  That means that those of use who are boomers will gravitate towards the 60s and 70s cars.  I can appreciate prewar and older cars, but I don't want to own one.  If a club won't accept new blood with newer cars, it will die.  That's the truth.

 

 

I'm 50 years old, went through a musclecar phase and now concentrate on prewar cars.   Do all these V16 Cadillacs just melt in to the ground?   Somebody owns them and that person probably wants to be in a club where he doesn't have to park next to a 93 Brougham.

 

Doesn't mean that a 93 Brougham is not collectable (I would prefer the 94 with the LT1 Corvette engine) but it is just not interesting to someone that appreciate cars from the prewar era.

 

What will happen will be a new club that caters to the prewar crowd.  The existing club can then continue with cruise night sorts of meets.

[John348]

I have found that this "younger member" to be an excuse for older members who now decided they want the continue the social aspect that they had for years with out bringing their vintage car (I am talking 25 years or older). So now they buy a brand new (whatever) and put it on the show field. Ironically by the same member who called the 35 year old car a used car 15 years ago.

 

 

When people join a club based for a certain car, then feel they need to change it when they join, on speculation. I am a Chevrolet guy, I own a new Cadillac because I can because I worked my whole life for it. It is far from a collectible and in my eyes won't be until it survives some sort of attrition. WHERE ARE THESE YOUNG PEOPLE? Better yet what is considered young? The only younger people I have met were our own children.

 

Why does this new younger unseen group focus their energy to start their own club that reflects those desires?  

 

When this happened in the VCCA we were fortunate that we overturned this same movement and tried to keep the club the same. It did not come without hard feelings, but if were left to stand it would have created harder feelings. The core members of the CLC need to decide if they want to overturn these decisions. My advice is to organize this and move on it NOW! 

Good luck.....

Edited July 10, 2015 by John348 (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Imperial if your interested in the restoration hobby from a hands on perspective try old Fords. Exclusive maybe not so much but many if not most A and T people do a lot themselves. Simple to work on, parts not a big challenge and a ready market if you want to sell down the road. Old guys and young guys (or gals) accepted. Full restorations are being done on these all the time.

[alsancle]

I won't argue with any of you, but look at his car. It's sill a Cadillac.

While would prefer white wall tires, or maybe a different color, it's still a

gorgeous 1935 Cadillac that belongs to another car guy. If he likes blackwall

tires because most 35's came with blackwalls, that his choice. I'd be proud to

park and talk cars with him. Maybe if there is judging involved, we should be

in different classes, but not kicked to the curb.

In 1987 I was refused entry as "non-judged" at a local AACA Show for having Great

American Race stickers on our 34 Ford, right after the Disneyland to Disney World,

a 4400 mile race for pre-1937 vehicles.

Reason given was "it was to commercial".

I hope we can learn to get along with and be civil to people who are not exactly

like us.

 

I think you can look at this car and immediately figure out what camp you are in.  I'm a guy that appreciates a traditional hot rod but consider this a crime.  There are a bunch of you that think this is wonderful.  These two camps can't be in the same club - they have NOTHING in common.   So any club that is "adapting" to the changing times will simply lose their members interested in traditional cars.    Since there are many many many 10 year old Cadillacs in theory the club will be much bigger.   I'm not sure that is necessarily better.

 

I would argue Jason, etc, and the rest of us should all fall back to the CCCA where the battle is over letting in a 49 Rolls Royce  vs letting in a monstrosity.

[JV Puleo]

I quite agree with alsancle re the early cars. None of those early cars, the brass ones, nickel era and early 30s cars have gone to the scrap yard because "no one wanted them." What has happened is that their owners — not museums or huge collections (both of which, statistically, own relatively few cars) can't be bothered bringing them out to a field covered with late models vehicles they have little or no interest in. I'm also going to be politically incorrect and say that I really couldn't care less about hot-rods or "resotmods" and wouldn't cross the street to bother looking at the best in the world. I have quit going to car shows because its more effort than its worth. I remember the 50s, 60s and 70s...the cars have no nostalgic appeal to me. I do t enforced think that a club that STRICTLY enforced a pre-war rule (without the arbitrary CCCA-type definition of "classic") would appeal to quite a few of us.

Edited July 10, 2015 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[John348]

I think it will help this discussion if someone will post the actual language of what change has been made and what is now allowed.

 

I agree

[oldcarfudd]

JV Puleo -

 

There is such a club. It's called the Horseless Carriage Club of America. It's a touring club, not a showing or judging club.  It allows only pre-war cars, not restricted as to marque, on its national tours, of which it has several every year in various parts of the U.S. and Canada.  It's actually growing membership - not fast, but fairly steadily.  It doesn't depend on nostalgia, because none of its members remember when the cars were new.  Neither does anyone else.

 

The war, by the way, is World War I.

 

Is there a demand for a similar club for interwar cars?  Personally, I think there is, although I don't have any cars of that vintage.  The HCCA doesn't want to welcome such a group.  The Veteran Motor Car Club of America would be the obvious home for such cars, but VMCCA tours (except for the Glidden in alternate years, and an annual one-and two-cylinder tour) seem to have succumbed to the lure of chrome era and muscle cars.  It's a wide-open field for some folks to start a really active new club.

 

Gil Fitzhugh the Elder, Morristown, NJ

[61polara]

From the Cadillac LaSalle judging manual. Modified vehicles can be judged in class judging, receiving full point deductions or entered in the non-judged Modified class. It appears that the Modified class is a display only class with no awards from my reading of this.

CADILLAC & LASALLE CLUB POLICY on MODIFIED VEHICLES

A major purpose of the CLC is to encourage the maintenance, preservation and restoration of Cadillacs and

LaSalles. When a vehicle requires repairs or restoration, this purpose is generally best served by performing the

work so as to produce a result as close as possible to the condition of the vehicle when it left the factory.

Nevertheless, some members own and drive Cadillac or LaSalle Vehicles that have been modified substantially by

the current or previous owners, whether by customizing appearance features, installing a non-authentic drivetrain

or both. This statement is intended to address the question of CLC policy toward such modified Cadillacs

and LaSalles.This policy is not intended to apply to Cadillac or LaSalles which were modified by a custom

coachbuilder at or near the time of initial delivery, such as classic-era custom bodied automobiles or professional

vehicles to which non-standard bodies were fitted.

MODIFIED VEHICLES AT GRAND NATIONAL MEETS

Modified Cadillac or LaSalles owned by CLC members may be entered in any appropriate judged Division,

but the judging criteria used by the Club will result in deductions for the departure from authenticity (except in

permitted cases such as safety glass, seat belts, battery disconnect switches, etc.).

These deductions will be applied regardless of the quality of the craftsmanship or other qualities present. For this

reason, it is suggested that owners of modified cars enter them in the Modified Car Division (non-Judged).

[TG57Roadmaster]

Matt,

 

Please remind me to give your three-year-old a big hug when we finally meet.

The boy has taste and, better yet, chutzpah!

 

TG 

[JV Puleo]

I'm certainly aware of the HCCA... I've been an off-and-on member for some years. The fact is, I can't reasonably afford to go on their tours, nor could I afford to take the time to do so. I was addressing the idea of car shows. If there were similar events sponsored locally, I would gladly participate. Unfortunately, it would take years to get something of that sort going, but why in the world do we measure a club's success by its membership numbers? Obviously, there is a minimal number needed to make things work, but ultimately I don't see how it would be impossible to reach that figure. As you say, there isn't a person alive who is collecting out of personal nostalgia for brass cars and the same can be said for the teens and 20s. My own feeling is that the various clubs, AACA included, have driven people out. The "year" business not withstanding, the insane emphasis on judging and the fact that (as a previous poster noted) an amateur restoration would be "laughed off the field" gives nearly all of these clubs an uncongenial atmosphere to anyone who disdains this sort of competition. The addition of various classifications in order to be more inclusive only works to a limited extent if they are seen as 2nd class options available to those who can't afford, or don't want, professional restorations. As you suggest, the VMCCA was, at one time, such a club. I was a long-time member but it has transformed itself into something I hardly recognize. The local chapters' idea of an event is to get together and drive (in their 50s or 60s or 70s air conditioned "collectible" cars) to some local, expensive eatery. I'm not certain they are a car club at all but more a club devoted to recreational dining.

 

I confess I'm far more comfortable with the European model which seems to be much less absorbed in awards and mutual recognition and more interested in the machines and getting them out. In any case, I have wandered too far from the original topic. What the Cadillac/LaSalle Club does is its own business. I'm not a member and won't be, though I'd like to get another teens or 20s Cadillac.

Edited July 11, 2015 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

I have belonged to the HCCA for many years, and to a degree find the 1915 and prior restriction too extreme. When the club was set up in circa 1936 a 1915 car was 20 years old , and available in good numbers.  Those same 1915 and older cars are now at least 100 years old, and have become fairly rare and generally quite costly.

 I like the brass era cars  a lot but I don't think the club would be too watered down if they raised the cut off to say 1925. It would allow people who like old cars but were of more modest means to participate. I don't think many people would say that a 90 year old {and counting} car was too modern.

 Some local groups will allow "nickel era" cars to participate but I get the impression many don't, and I know from comments in the Gazette that there is considerable opposition to officially moving the cut off year up. Personally I can't see how it could hurt, and I believe it would for many be a benefit.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited July 11, 2015 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[1935Packard]

I'm a CLC member and regularly attend the local shows.  We recently have been allowing modified cars, judged as their own class, on the ground that it would be a mistake to turn away a group of young Cadillac enthusiasts who love Cadillacs and love their cars and who want to participate in our shows.  It's been successful.  It's not like we have so many members and so many cars that we wouldn't like the company.  And it adds an interesting new element to our usual meets and shows.  

[John348]

I'm a CLC member and regularly attend the local shows.  We recently have been allowing modified cars, judged as their own class, on the ground that it would be a mistake to turn away a group of young Cadillac enthusiasts who love Cadillacs and love their cars and who want to participate in our shows.  It's been successful.  It's not like we have so many members and so many cars that we wouldn't like the company.  And it adds an interesting new element to our usual meets and shows.   

 

 

Just for my own knowledge how young is a young Cadillac enthusiast? 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

On one hand I have always thought that when younger guys show an interest in an older car, not necessarily a car of one's youth, it solidifies the great design. A few posters on this thread are CCCA members with cars designed well before their time, come to think of it.

On newer stuff, slab side lincolns a prime example. Too bad so many feel the need to modify them so heavily the character of the car, along with any chance to correct it,are gone. Sounds like CLC has thought it through though. Interesting to see how different clubs approach this.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[Robert G. Smits]

If the CCCA model is so desirable why can't Houston, (2.5 million pop with 4 million within a 60 mile radius) support a CCCA club.  I suspect there are 500 cars meeting the CCCA rules in the area described.  I have never owned a modified vehicle and have been to many CLC Grand National meets and look forward to viewing the modified Cads.  Just my TWC.  Bob Smits

[Pomeroy41144]

I am 52 and I grew up in the late 1960s and through out the 1970s.  I used to collect early 1970s Cadillacs.  I love them.  But nothing turns my crank more than 1930s era Cadillacs, the eights as well as the 12s and 16s.  The highly modified 1930s Cadillac coupe that appears in this thread is not my interest.  Turns my stomach really.  Love the 1957-1960 Cadillacs too.  Would love to own a 1958 Seville.  I did not grow up with these cars.  Sure, when I was a boy, there were some 50s era Cadillacs around, but not many.   I am interested in the cars I did NOT grow up with.  Those offer the real fascination.  I drove a 1941 Buick Series 90 to the BCA Nationals a few years back; I was not interested in the "modified" field at the BCA event.  I saw a modified 1941 Series 90 Hot Rod at the event.  Ugh!  What a crime.  Not interested.  Hate seeing any pre-war Cadillac or Buick being modified into a hot rod or custom.  I just don't understand why the modified crowd thinks they need to barn storm these clubs and force their way.  Join a custom club.  Glad the Chevy people were able to band together and save their club. 

[Guest]

I have found that this "younger member" to be an excuse for older members who now decided they want the continue the social aspect that they had for years with out bringing their vintage car (I am talking 25 years or older). So now they buy a brand new (whatever) and put it on the show field. Ironically by the same member who called the 35 year old car a used car 15 years ago.

 

 

When people join a club based for a certain car, then feel they need to change it when they join, on speculation. I am a Chevrolet guy, I own a new Cadillac because I can because I worked my whole life for it. It is far from a collectible and in my eyes won't be until it survives some sort of attrition. WHERE ARE THESE YOUNG PEOPLE? Better yet what is considered young? The only younger people I have met were our own children.

 

Why does this new younger unseen group focus their energy to start their own club that reflects those desires?  

 

When this happened in the VCCA we were fortunate that we overturned this same movement and tried to keep the club the same. It did not come without hard feelings, but if were left to stand it would have created harder feelings. The core members of the CLC need to decide if they want to overturn these decisions. My advice is to organize this and move on it NOW! 

Good luck.....

 

 John, please explain the advertisement of VCCA in the September 2015 Hemmings Classic Car Magazine for your club where it says " NOW we welcome ALL Chevrolets, vintage or contemporary, original, "personalized", and now our Chevy truck brother GMC.  

To me Personalized means modified, unless you were actually at the dealership in 1962 to personalize the car of your dreams with the salesman ordering your options.

  Second, Pontiac Oakland Club International has been the club for many years that  represents the GMC marque. Is the VCCA aware of that?

[Guest]

I won't argue with any of you, but look at his car. It's sill a Cadillac.

While would prefer white wall tires, or maybe a different color, it's still a

gorgeous 1935 Cadillac that belongs to another car guy. If he likes blackwall

tires because most 35's came with blackwalls, that his choice. I'd be proud to

park and talk cars with him. Maybe if there is judging involved, we should be

in different classes, but not kicked to the curb.

In 1987 I was refused entry as "non-judged" at a local AACA Show for having Great

American Race stickers on our 34 Ford, right after the Disneyland to Disney World,

a 4400 mile race for pre-1937 vehicles.

Reason given was "it was to commercial".

I hope we can learn to get along with and be civil to people who are not exactly

like us.

 

OK looking. What I see; wheels that do not belong on the car, A lowered car that would not be able to get out of my driveway. What I can't see is most likely that ubiquitous SBC under the hood with a auto trans that Cadillac wouldn't get until 1941, and last but not least A/C in a car that didn't come with it. What does this all mean? Not a car recognized by CCCA, AACA. The vehicle from a historical point of view which is not valid, and certainly not what the Cadillac division or the corporation built. Not a antique vehicle.

In short. now just a modified used car and a INSULT to the designers/stylist that created it. 

 

If you want to have your own mark on a vehicle then make your own car. Have respect and keep your hands off someone else's creation!

[1935Packard]

Just for my own knowledge how young is a young Cadillac enthusiast? 

 

20s & 30s.  In a local club where the average age is probably 60, that counts as young.

[Walt G]

I can agree with my friend Matt Harwood. I too do not really like car shows, and I especially do not like the competition of judging etc. the fun is in the journey getting there and coming home behind the wheel of an old car. To pay $15 or more to attend a car show so you can have the possibility of winning a plastic trophy that says it was donated by Joe's Brake Service and Sushi restaurant just isn't my kind of fun. I'd rather put the $15 towards paying for some more gasoline to put in the tank and thus be able to drive the car more.

 

My preference in recent years is for local cruise nights that take place in the middle of the week, I own only stock pre war cars, but of course the majority of the cruise night attendees are in post war, modified, street rods etc.

They don't ask me why I don't subfame my 36 Packard club sedan or 40 Buick conv sedan , but want to see the engine because they don't see striaght eights that often and ask a lot of

intellegent questions too . Many are amazed that I drive it at night still on a 6 volt system; that system has worked well since new so why "upgrade it"?  My point is that if those of us out there

who own pre war cars drive them and answer questions from those that don't perhaps we may get more people interested to want to buy a pre war car. My cars are good "15 footers" paint isn't perfect but everyone has their own personal reasons for owning a car, those of us with prewar machinery need to get it out there for people to see and perhaps inspire others to own vehicles of similar vintage.

[cahartley]

The two above posts are the best ever.

If everyone is going to get bent and keep their toys at home NOBODY will see them and interest will only decline.

I have gravitated toward OLD things my entire life and think "restomods" are abominations.

I'm not much on shows and have exhibited only once at a local fund raiser which made me decide, on the spot, that exhibiting is not my idea of a good time unless there is something else going on.

When I do go to a show I simply walk past the stuff I don't like.

Just because I don't like it doesn't make it wrong........it's simply unappealing to me.

I don't care who you are or what's your flavor but birds of a feather will STILL flock together.

When something comes down to a "my way or the highway" ultimatum the highway is usually the route things take and more than one club has been ruined that way.

 

[Guest Gary Hearn]

Intolerance is what has made Amarica what it is today.

[60FlatTop]

Last time I had a boss I would tell him that if we both thought the same way there would only be a need for one of us. And I was older. I arrived first.

 

 

Ever tried intolerance without denigrating those one is intolerant of? Check the liberal media.

 

And today is church day.

Bernie

[Terry Wiegand]

My wife tells me all the time that my name should be Harley-Davidson because I have a LESS THAN TOLERANT point of view on a lot of things. I agree with a lot of the comments on here about the butchering up of a perfectly fine original automobile (there's that less than tolerant view for you) and then trying to hijack the original only automobile clubs and shove their ideas down everybody's throats. Does anybody see just the slightest bit of absurdity with

this? And some on here think that there is something wrong with a person who feels this way about things like this. I will go on the record right here

and now and say that if someone or somebodies would start a Pre-War Only Club, I will be the first person in line to try and sign up. Somebody really

needs to consider doing this because I know a bunch of folks who are sick to death of the way some of these organizations are treating the people who own

and enjoy 'old' vehicles. If I say any more on here I could possibly be thrown off the forum. Anyone who wants to call me and talk about this personally,

I have included my phone number. I will not put anything down in writing about this.

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

(620)665-7672

[Guest]

Intolerance is what has made Amarica what it is today.

Correct, the founding fathers were highly intolerant of British rule and taxation without representation.

[capngrog]

 

If you want to have your own mark on a vehicle then make your own car. Have respect and keep your hands off someone else's creation!

 

Does that condemnation include taxi cabs, police cars, and any commercial vehicle with a sign and logo painted on it?  Whether a modification to "someone else's creation" is considered an enhancement or an abomination is in the eye of the beholder; however, those modifications themselves then become "someone else's creation".  In many respects, a 1956 Chevrolet is just a mildly customized 1955 Chevrolet, but both were the products of the Chevrolet Design Studio team headed by Chief Designer, Clare MacKichan.  I don't think that any member of the Design Team was overly upset when they modified the hugely successful 1955 Chevrolet body style.

 

With that said, I usually don't care for most of the body modifications I've seen on older vehicles, but that's just my taste.  For better or worse a vehicle owner is free to modify his vehicle as he sees fit. 

 

Just sayin',

Grog

[Guest]

Does that condemnation include taxi cabs, police cars, and any commercial vehicle with a sign and logo painted on it?  Whether a modification to "someone else's creation" is considered an enhancement or an abomination is in the eye of the beholder; however, those modifications themselves then become "someone else's creation".  In many respects, a 1956 Chevrolet is just a mildly customized 1955 Chevrolet, but both were the products of the Chevrolet Design Studio team headed by Chief Designer, Clare MacKichan.  I don't think that any member of the Design Team was overly upset when they modified the hugely successful 1955 Chevrolet body style.

 

With that said, I usually don't care for most of the body modifications I've seen on older vehicles, but that's just my taste.  For better or worse a vehicle owner is free to modify his vehicle as he sees fit. 

 

Just sayin',

Grog

No, I don't think taxi cabs, police cars or hearse's come into that.

I have a friend who has done quite a few hot rods in his time. Today he is working on another one. I have no problem as to what he is doing because his cars are ALL hand built in metal using his own design. Last week he showed me the blueprints of his new car. If you are going to do this type of thing this is the way to do it. He does not take a 1940 Chevy for example and re-create his design over it. I mean who could best a 1940 Chevrolet Royal Clipper???.

I have a 1969 Pontiac "A" body that I bought new. In 1992 I modified it so that I could safely run it on the track as a grand touring car. The body is absolutely stock, under the hood the engine looks stock, and the suspension aside from the front and rear 1 3/8 sway bars appears to be stock. No one can tell if the steering box is stock or a 9-C-1 Police nova box is in there because the case is the same, no one could tell that it has F-X body tall spindles and a off set upper "A" arm shafts for negative roll steering or that the ride height front and rear is a little lower because it uses Eibach racing springs or that all the suspension bushings are poly graphite impregnated plastic or that my four link rear suspension as welded and boxed lower and adjustable upper links and that Cadillac Seville disc brakes are in the rear. MY wheels are stock Pontiac Rally 2's that are 7" ft. and 8" rear. The car looks stock, but all this does not belong on the AACA forum or at a AACA show or any other show for that matter in a stock category.

The purpose of the car was to run on the street and track and NOT to be brought into AACA forum to shake up people like myself who like cars as they came from the factory. I have cars for that. There are many places where my Pontiac is welcome so why force my modified car onto people who don't like that sort of thing.

There is a place for everything and in my opinion AACA, POCI, VCCA, VVCA, CLC members should have a place to go and gather to be with people of the same interest. Is that asking too much of people who would like their hot rod 41 Cadillac to be a part of CLC to find some love on the hamb and find another club?

Edited July 13, 2015 by helfen (see edit history)

[capngrog]

There are many places where my Pontiac is welcome so why force my modified car onto people who don't like that sort of thing.

There is a place for everything and in my opinion AACA, POCI, VCCA, VVCA, CLC members should have a place to go and gather to be with people of the same interest. Is that asking too much of people who would like their hot rod 41 Cadillac to be a part of CLC to find some love on the hamb and find another club?

 

I could not agree more.  Well said!

 

Cheers,

Grog

[Larry W]

I'm 41 and an primarily interested in pre WWII cars.

My son was born in January of 1985, and just loves late forties and early fifties Mopars, especially since he heard one with a split exhaust. He is currently restoring a '46 Chrysler Windsor convertible.

[1912Staver]

I am in agreement with Terry Wiegand that a national pre war club would be a good idea. Or for that mater more of a Pacific N. W. presence for the AACA.  And as I previously mentioned a more lenient cut off date for the HCCA, seems hard to believe but at the moment a 99 year old car is not old enough. { next year a 100 year old car will not be old enough ! }

  I like 1950's and 60's cars but have a hard time calling them antiques. The later teens and early twenties cars are much neglected except for the street rodder's ; they are too new for HCCA events, and generally too slow / not enough braking power for many other more general old car events.   I like cars from this era, not as much as I like "brass" cars but they are much more manageable from a cost perspective.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited July 18, 2015 by 1912Staver (see edit history)