Car under Restoration and Owner dies, What now???

[Dandy Dave]

OK Folks, Hypothetically, A car has been in a shop for a very long time. (More than 10 years.) It has taken years to gather parts and get specialized repairs done. The car is still not complete and lacks several key components. One is a $1,000 dollar carburetor which the owner did not want to puchase at the time. The other is generator parts. The car is not super rare but not a sloutch either. It still needs some assembly. The estate handlers, (Lawyers) want the car returned to the estate immediatly. However, there is money owed to the shop against the car for parts and repairs. (Never mind the storage fees accumulated for so many years.) Should the car be returned in hopes the estate will satisfy the bill. Or should the shop retain the car until the bill is satisfied. I've always been told that possession is 9/10ths of the law. Ah yes, and if it helps with an answer, this is New York State. Thanks, Dandy Dave!

Edited November 6, 2013 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[CarlLaFong]

If the estate has clear title for the car, possession means nothing. It's their car, same as it was his car when he was alive. I'd slap a mechanics lien on it for the bill and the storage

[nickelroadster]

Am unfamiliar with laws in New York but if the car was in my possession, I would not let it go until the bills were paid in full. If the car was released to the estate that would probably be the last you heard of the estate. If they do not wish any more work to be done on the car, storage will acrue.

[Rusty_OToole]

I bought a Mercedes under similar circumstances. The owner left it with a local garage for an engine rebuild. The owner died before the job was finished. The estate had to settle the bill, as they have to settle all bills owed by the deceased before the estate can be settled.

I suggest you make up a bill and send it to the executors of the estate.

In this particular case they instructed the garage to stop work. They took the car with the rebuilt engine installed but not running, no exhaust, wiring not hooked up, etc. It ran but not drivable.

The estate sold the car to me for actually less than the repair bill. I finished the job and had a nice Mercedes to drive.

So, long story short, the executors are now in the place of the owner. It is up to them what they want to do. In any case, they are obliged to pay the bill.

If there is a lot of money involved you may need to sit down with them and discuss what can be done. Probably the best thing from their standpoint would be to pay the bill and have you sell the car as is for whatever you can get, or sell it at auction.

They may want to get an appraisal. Or, if the car has sentimental value to the family they may want to keep it. It is hard to say. This is why I suggest you send in a bill for work done to date and be prepared to sit down with them and discuss their options.

[TerryB]

The estate needs to know all the bills due so they can be satisfied. Submitting a bill for work and storage would be the first order.

Terry

[trimacar]

"In hopes the estate will satisfy (pay) the bill" are, to me, the key words in your question....if the car is back in the estate, the family/ lawyers can always challenge the charges, bring you to court, and so forth.

Present an invoice to the executor of the estate, after establishing a mechanic's lien....the estate has to pay if it wants the vehicle back as an asset for the estate...

[R Walling]

In MA. a mechanics lein even trumps any bank lein on the car.

[Guest BillP]

In my experience, a New York estate, even a very simple one, takes years to settle. Were it me, I would refuse to release the vehicle until the bill is paid in full and the check clears.

[Dandy Dave]

Thanks for the answers. Just as I was sort of thinking. I guess it would be best to keep the car here and summit a bill to the estate. And agree to release/return the automobile only when the bill is satisfied. The owner in this case has no surviving relatives so the lawers will have a field day. Also, this is no simple estate. A lot of parcels of land and assets are left behind. Shops, buildings, rental property, a trailor park, a farm, and a rather large collection of cars and tractors and other machinery. I can see the state taking a lot in taxes also. The owner was a really good guy and a friend. I would rather still have him here but such is life.... No matter my relationship with him in life, I still need to collect on the work, parts, and storage of this auto. Thanks again. Dandy Dave!

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Dave, maybe stating the obvious here but will put it out there anyway - estate law varies state to state, and the response could be very different from a family member/executor/executrix vs. a lawyer. Dealing with this without your own atty. at least advising you on approach is like attempting a full restoration with a homeowner's hand held toolbox...

[Restorer32]

State law prevails. You would likely be on very shaky legal grounds refusing to return the car to the estate before the bill is paid if they insist. You couldn't get away with that here in PA. In fact, hard as it may be to believe, in PA a "Mechanic's Lien" does not even apply to automobiles. Here a shop's only recourse is to start a court proceeding in hopes of being awarded a judgement that you then have to enforce. You also cannot impose "storage fees" unless the owner has been notified before you start imposing storage fees. In PA a shop can't even legally declare a car "abandoned" and sell it for storage, regardless what many think. Were I you I would submit a bill to the estate along with copies of any documentation or contract you might have and they will likely pay it with no problem. They have a fiduciary responsibility to settle all estate matters and they would not benefit financially from refusing to pay.

[trimacar]

I am not a lawyer and my information is only that gleaned from the Internet, so take no responsibility in any way for how accurate it is, but below is a discussion of a lien on personal property in New York State, apparently a Mechanic's Lien, although it seems the correct thing to say, is incorrect for a motor vehicle (i.e. personal property)....note that it seems to state that any lien becomes void if you return the personal property, so it would seem that you need to hold on to the vehicle until paid.

In my mind, the other option is to make an offer for the vehicle as is, and see if they'll settle with you... all of the below is copied from Internet and NOT MY WORDS NOR ADVICE (there, the fine print!)

Expert: Attorney & Mediator replied 6 years ago.

Since you have a vehicle in your possession a mechanic's lien will not work as a mechanic's lien only applies to materials and services provided upon real property (real estate/land).

To enforce payment for services or storage up your shop you will need to file for a lien on personal property (or also called a personal property lien). The law provides the following regarding personal property liens on vehicles:

§ 184. Lien of bailee of motor vehicles, motor boats or aircraft. 1. A

person keeping a garage, hangar or place for the storage, maintenance,

keeping or repair of motor vehicles as defined by the vehicle and

traffic law, or of motor boats as defined by article seven of the

navigation law, or of aircraft as defined by article fourteen of the

general business law, and who in connection therewith tows, stores,

maintains, keeps or repairs any motor vehicle, motor boat, or aircraft

or furnishes gasoline or other supplies therefor at the request or with

the consent of the owner or, subject to the provisions of subdivision

two of this section, tows and stores any motor vehicle at the request of

a law enforcement officer authorized to remove such motor vehicle,

whether or not such motor vehicle, motor boat or aircraft is subject to

a security interest, has a lien upon such motor vehicle, motor boat or

aircraft for the sum due for such towing, storing, maintaining, keeping

or repairing of such motor vehicle, motor boat or aircraft or for

furnishing gasoline or other supplies therefor and may detain such motor

vehicle, motor boat or aircraft at any time it may be lawfully in his

possession until such sum is paid, except that if the lienor, subsequent

to thirty days from the accrual of such lien, allows the motor vehicle,

motor boat or aircraft out of his actual possession the lien provided

for in this section shall thereupon become void as against all security

interests, whether or not perfected, in such motor vehicles, motor boat

or aircraft and executed prior to the accrual of such lien,

notwithstanding possession of such motor vehicle, motor boat or aircraft

is thereafter acquired by such lienor.

However, if the bailee of a motor vehicle, motor boat or aircraft has

furnished a written estimate of the cost of towing, storage,

maintenance, repair or any other service on such motor vehicle, motor

boat or aircraft, any lien sought by such bailee for such service may

not be in an amount in excess of the written estimate.

2. A person who tows and stores a motor vehicle at the request of a

law enforcement officer authorized to remove such motor vehicle shall be

entitled to a lien for the reasonable costs of such towing and storage,

provided that such person, within five working days from the initial

towing, mails to the owner of said motor vehicle a notice by certified

mail return receipt requested that contains the name of the person who

towed and is storing said motor vehicle, the amount that is being

claimed for such towing and storage, and the address and times at which

said motor vehicle may be recovered. Such notice shall further state

that the person mailing said notice claims a lien on said motor vehicle

and that said motor vehicle shall be released to the owner thereof or

his or her lawfully designated representative upon full payment of all

charges accrued to the date that said motor vehicle is released. A

person who mails the foregoing notice within said five day period shall

be entitled to a lien for storage from and after the date of initial

towing, but a person who fails to mail such notice within said five day

period shall only be entitled to a lien for storage from and after the

date that the notice was mailed. A failure to mail such notice in a

timely fashion shall not affect a lien for towing.

3. The provisions of this section shall not apply to a person who tows

and stores a motor vehicle at the request of a law enforcement officer

where such request is made pursuant to the provisions of a local law or

ordinance regulating the towing and safekeeping of stolen or abandoned

vehicles within such locality and which requires such motor vehicle to

be turned over to the locality after a specified period of time.

4. The lien provided herein shall not inure to the benefit of any

person required to be registered as a motor vehicle repair shop pursuant

to article twelve-A of the vehicle and traffic law who is not so

registered.

5. A person who tows and stores a motor vehicle at the request of a

law enforcement officer authorized to remove such motor vehicle, and who

seeks to assert a lien for the storage of such motor vehicle pursuant to

subdivision two of this section shall mail by certified mail, return

receipt requested, a notice pursuant to this subdivision to every person

who has perfected a security interest in such motor vehicle or who is

listed as a lienholder upon the certificate of title of such motor

vehicle pursuant to the vehicle and traffic law within twenty days of

the first day of storage. Such notice shall include the name of the

person providing storage of the motor vehicle, the amount being claimed

for such storage, and address and times at which the motor vehicle may

be recovered. The notice shall also state that the person providing such

notice claims a lien on the motor vehicle and that such motor vehicle

shall be released upon full payment of all storage charges accrued on

the date the motor vehicle is released. A person who mails such notice

within such twenty day period shall be entitled to a lien for storage

from and after the first date of storage. A person who fails to mail

such notice within such twenty day period shall only be entitled to a

lien for the amount payable for storage from and after the date the

notice was mailed. A failure to mail such notice in a timely fashion

shall not affect a lien for towing.

Essentially, you will need to file a lien for personal property, then notified (certified mail) the vehicle owner that if there is no response within a certain period of time (period of time not provided in the code section) , that said vehicle will be sold by the sheriff to satisfy the debt.

As the code section does not specify the period of time, I would county your county clerk and see if they can assist you with obtaining the forms and the time required for proper notice. You might also be able to get a book about personal liens at your local law library or major bookstore.

To read about enforcement of the lien you can click on the following:

LIE - Lien

Article 9 - ENFORCEMENT OF LIENS ON PERSONAL PROPERTY

200 - Sale of personal property to satisfy a lien.

201 - Notice of sale.

201-A - Proceeding to determine validity of liens.

202 - Sale to be advertised; exception.

202-A - Sale of a security.

202-B - Pledgee may buy at public sale.

203 - Redemption before sale.

204 - Disposition of proceeds.

205 - Remedy not exclusive.

206 - Enforcement by action; when and in what courts; procedure in action to foreclose real property mortgage applicable in actions to foreclose a mortgage

207 - Warrant to seize chattel; proceedings thereupon.

208 - Judgment.

209 - Action in inferior court.

210 - Application.

211 - Arrears/past due support.

Again, a mechanic's lien is not what you are looking for as that type of lien is only for real property not personal property of the debtor.

[Bud Tierney]

How does the old saying go??---A man who represents himself as his own atty has a fool for a client??--or something similar...

As already mentioned above, find yourself an atty to at least get local professional advice...

With apologies to everyone who quoted/referred to statutes, it's not just what the specific law states but also how local courts have interpreted/applied it over the years...

And, yes, it's also perfectly true that unless you have an atty in the family, or have a considerable amount of actual out-of-pocket money tied up here (as opposed to "expectations"), and unless you can find one to handle it on a contingent fee basis, atty fees may well be more than you're able to get back...

Welcome to the legal world!!

With sympathy, Bud

[jscheib]

Dave,

Just to throw my 2 cents in - As this may be a more friendly agreement verses a professional shop with a restoration contract with an agreed price, time, storage fees, etc. My suggestion is best to use an attorney and the idea to submitted a price to purchase to the estate. It sounds like the estate have much bigger fish than a car to take up their time and energy.

John

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Bud I think makes the valid point that atty. fees could eat up the potential gain here, Dave, but a good attorney will usually sit down with you for a half hour and discuss the validity/practicality of their involvement and likely share some general ideas for free - especially if you have an existing client relationship with them.

In a case like this I would go that route, and probably pay them an hour or two's time to draw up the initial communication once you decide on the best approach. You can always back off and cut your losses later. I have no idea of the math involved but personally I would pay an atty. say, $300 to write up a simple letter in hopes of recovering say $10,000 -

As John points out they have bigger fish to fry, an amicable professional approach likely makes sense.

Have you thought about offering your services to help dispose of the collection? Clearly you had some relationship with the deceased, and likely know a bit about his cars. A headache could actually be an opportunity...

[trimacar]

I have a friend who's an attorney, I called him recently about a contract offered to me....he was very professional, and gave me a free ten minute call, the gist of which saved my butt from a very poorly worded contract...he then stated, rightfully so, further advice would be in his office "on the clock"...

Yes, lawyer advice will cost, but a quick consultation can point the way and, in the end, pay you back...

I don't like how litigious our society has become, but at times one needs to be able to talk legalese .....

[cahartley]

The obvious has been overlooked entirely thus far.

Have you told the attorneys for the estate that when the bills are paid it WILL be immediately released to the estate?

[1937hd45]

Sounds like the owner was a slow payer while alive, does his estate have the funds to pay the bill? Bob

[Rusty_OToole]

I gather the estate has plenty of money or assets so covering the bill is not the issue. And, that the bill is quite a substantial one.

In the circumstances you should talk to a lawyer. If you do business with one, they will usually answer questions for free up to a point.

[Dandy Dave]

OK gang, I have contacted my Lawer and will get together with her sometime next week. I have not talked at all to the Law Firm handeling the Estate. Just the man that worked for the owner. Getting some Legal advice first. Yes the owner was slow to pay. I did a tractor transmission repair a few years ago and it took quite a while to get paid. The owner said he had never seen times as bad as these in trying to collect rent. He said he would lay awake at night wondering how he was going to pay the bills. Up here in NY, we are "Land Poor" as we are taxed and insured to death. Most of the farms, and any industry around have closed up, or moved away so there is little for people to do for an income to pay rent other than low paying service industry jobs. Much of the property was not rented and what was collected was about one half of the total. One third always paid, One third paid sometimes, the last third did not pay at all. This fellow lived well into his 90's and even told me that the great depession was not as bad as that in this area. Now that I have made all of you feel good and depressed for the day..... I will let you know as things unfold. I have thought of offering my services to the estate as they will need someone to "Go through Stuff" for what I would believe will lead to an Auction. Get the stuff running that is eazy to do so, and determine what is not worth getting running and selling as is where is. Thanks, Dandy Dave!

Edited November 9, 2013 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Kimo]

I wish you the best in this matter and however it turns out have you thought about learning a lesson from this cases on how to do business better in the future by drawing up a new standard contract, with your attorney's help, that will include a clause or two about what happens in cases of non-payment or arrearages should the client pass away while you are in the middle of a long term restoration? More than a small percentage of antique auto owners happen to be in that group of men who are getting on in age - no offense to all the great guys here but if we are honest with ourselves I think that this tends not to be a hobby dominated by teenagers and twenty-somethings - and some restorations can take many years as you have seen.

[NTX5467]

I have no doubt you could total up the acrued bill for work/parts accumulated up until and including the day of the owner's passing. For THAT amount, there should be no room for discussion. Where there CAN be discussion is relating to "storage" charges while the car was in your possession/care and not being worked on (for whatever reason). It was in your care and taking up space on your property, so some sort of storage charges might be in order. IF the length of time the vehicle was on the property has been very long, it's also very possible that "local industry standard" storage fees could well exceed the ultimate value of the vehicle. It might seem a little "cheesy" to do the "mechanic's lein" deal right now, unless the estate's operatives slow-walk their decision. What might be appropriate is to send them, along with any acrued invoice items, a notice that if the vehicle's bill remains "unsettled" past a near-future date (30 days?), then mechanic's lein storage procedures will be initiated. I would suspect that, at that time, the outstanding repair bill would be added to the future-accumulating storage bill for the "ultimate amount" needing to be collected BEFORE the vehicle will be released to ANYBODY.

I would hope the estate's operatives would have the gumption to know that an "incomplete vehicle" is basically worth "junk prices" rather than the higher value it could have if it was a "functioning vehicle", regardless of what kind of vehicle it was. PLUS that a dis-assembled vehicle will lose value and deteriorate (in condition) faster than an assembled or partially-assembled vehicle will . . . time is NOT in their favor on THAT issue.

As mentioned above, ANY and ALL bills owed by the deceased MUST be settled before the estate can be "closed" or "settled". Getting YOUR claim in as soon as possible can be important if there might not be enough money to go around. The owner might have been a friend and long-time customer, but now it's about business in getting the work you've done and parts you've accumulated for the job paid for -- no more, no less.

Of course, depending upon how the figures work out, you could offer the estate's operatives . . . "Here's the bills accumulated for the vehicle's repair, parts and labor and applicable sales taxes. If you bring me a clear title to the vehicle, in our company's name, we'll trade that for the repair bill. Then we can ALL move on to bigger and better things."

Please keep us posted on how things evolve. Depending upon how things transpire, my last suggestion might also be the best plan of action for all involved. It would solve MANY problems with the least amount of angst . . . provided the numbers work for YOU on such a situation.

Take care,

NTX5467

[Dandy Dave]

Thanks for the advice gang. Will meet with my Lawyer this week. I would rather just get paid than deal with the car as the parts it needs are very expensive and the owner did not want to spring for them at the time I was working on it. That is one of the reasons it has sat here for so long. Looking back in my paper work, a set of piston rings is just over $1,500.00 without shipping. (of course these are an odd size and cannot be had by dimension. Only one place that they are availible and they know it.) Never mind the Carburetor and other parts that it still needs to get it back together. Also, It would need new tires to be driven out on the road. The tires are up and hold air, but are very old. I'm not sure they would last long with the riggers of the highway. We will see where it goes. This old fellow was use to buying model "A" Fords back in the day for $5 to $10 bucks. You can imagine the look I got when I told him what a ring set costs a number of years ago. Dandy Dave!

Edited November 11, 2013 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[oldcarfudd]

1500 bucks for piston rings???? Just what IS this car?

[Dandy Dave]

1500 bucks for piston rings???? Just what IS this car?

A hint... RR... Need I say more???

[oldcarfudd]

Nope.

[cahartley]

Must be an odd 8 banger.

Custom rings are obscenely expensive and oil rings are always double the cost of compression rings so $45ish per ring isn't that far fetched.

I'd have regrooved the pistons to fit a standard ring and, hopefully, found some over size rings that might fit the bores with a little adjusting of the gaps.

Maybe that's not possible in this case but it's an idea.

[NTX5467]

Ah, the OEM-specific nature of that brand! A friend worked at a body shop in the later 1970s. They were the "body shop of record" for the local RR dealer. He had to go to school to be trained on how to apply the pinstripes on the wheels correctly! On cars they'd get in, on normal collision repair or other cosmetic refurbishment (well BEFORE we had the many "certified" used car programs, when a RR was traded-in, getting it 'back to OEM specs' was necessary . . . mechanically and cosmetically!), they might find only 1/2 of the bolts to, for example, hold on a fender. They had an older gentleman who delivered and picked-up customers' cars. One day the guy stopped by the body shop as they were trying to figure out what was holding the grille shell in, OTHER than the bolts/retainers they'd found. He smiled and showed them the "hidden fasteners" that ONLY a RR body repair operataive would know about! Kind of like ensuring that RRs would be worked on ONLY by people who knew completely about RRs in the first place, i.e., franchised dealers.

Later on, I happened upon a Silver Cloud that a customer had at another repair shop in that area, with a great history or working on imported and exotic vehicles. That was the first time I'd seen one of those cars up close. The owner was telling me about how this guy bought the car "off the Internet" and had it shipped in, not running. The owner also provided a repair manual for the car, which detailed the many redundant systems on the car. I also noticed that there was NO gap between the top of the fenders and the A-pillar . . . all soldered/welded together. YIKES, Batman! Holy welded-on-fenders, front and back! Looking at the lower control arms and other chassis items, they looked more like a medium-duty truck than a luxury car! But a luxury car which could be sold anywhere in the world and hold its Flying Lady high.

After seeing all of that ONE car, as it was, the phrase "bullet-proof mechanicals" came to mind. NOT to say they couldn't be neglected and later fail. LOTS of unique stuff and systems, too. Enough to keep them going back to the franchised dealers for service and repair! But then, too, this was at a time in those particular models' life when there were "used cars" rather than "collector cars".

Surprisingly, N TX has a rather large RR owners club! With a diverse group of cars, too. Perhaps one of the RR club chapters might be a resource in getting the car disposed of?

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[NTX5467]

Must be an odd 8 banger.

Custom rings are obscenely expensive and oil rings are always double the cost of compression rings so $45ish per ring isn't that far fetched.

I'd have regrooved the pistons to fit a standard ring and, hopefully, found some over size rings that might fit the bores with a little adjusting of the gaps.

Maybe that's not possible in this case but it's an idea.

Generally, a piston ring doesn't know what engine it's going it . . . other than the bore diameter is what it was made for. From what I know, I don't believe you can really compensate for "different" bore sizes by adjusting the end gap of the ring. Each ring has a particular end gap (AND tension against the cylinder wall), by design, which can be fine-tuned to a particular piston bore size, but more on the order of .005" rather than .050", or even .030".

In some of the old Perfect Circle Piston Ring catalogs, they'd usually have a "spec" and "buyer's guide" section in the back. The "spec" section would give you the respective specs for each part number of piston ring they built. The "buyer's guide" would detail what engine and ring position the particular part number piston ring was designed for and others it might fit, listed by ascending bore diameters.

One reason the price of the compression ring would be different than the oil ring is that the compression ring is pretty simple to build. The oil ring would have many possible variations due to the "scraper" underside edge of the upper oil ring--lots of possible intricate machine work there. Plus that oil rings are usually multi-piece rather than the one-piece compression ring . . . unless it's a "Total Seal" ring.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[cahartley]

I'm not talking about the "new" three piece oil rings.

I'm talking about the old fashioned one piece cast iron oil control rings.

With all the options available for oversize rings for most bores adjusting ring gap isn't that big a deal Rolls Royce or not.......it's still "just another engine".

[Hudzilla]

Dave, $1500 piston rings?? Let me guess... EGGE! Lol.

[Dandy Dave]

No, Not EGGE... A R.R. Supply company. The car is a light 6 cylinder 20/25. The problem is the thickness of the rings. The grooves are .090. All the thickness of the rings I see listed are in fractional sizes. Also, there are pins to keep the rings from turning. I could get a thicker ring and spend hours on a surface grinder getting them ground down to size. Not worth it in my opinion. I would have to pull the pins to re-cut the piston grooves if I went that route. At least one ring was broken and the rest are well worn. If it was all that eazy, and not so expen$$ive, it would have been done long ago.

http://www.bentleyyard.com/parts/1904-1955..... Part number is E55561SA.

At this point it looks like I will not be finnishing the job unless a new owner contracts me to. Dandy Dave!

Edited November 13, 2013 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Hudzilla]

No, Not EGGE... A R.R. Supply company. The car is a light 6 cylinder 20/25. The problem is the thickness of the rings. The grooves are .090. All the thickness of the rings I see listed are in fractional sizes. Also, there are pins to keep the rings from turning. I could get a thicker ring and spend hours on a surface grinder getting them ground down to size. Not worth it in my opinion. I would have to pull the pins to re-cut the piston grooves if I went that route. At least one ring was broken and the rest are well worn. If it was all that eazy, and not so expen$$ive, it would have been done long ago.

http://www.bentleyyard.com/parts/1904-1955..... Part number is E55561SA.

At this point it looks like I will not be finnishing the job unless a new owner contracts me to. Dandy Dave!

Dave, I wish you well in your undertaking. About the only other manufacturer I can think of that had pinned piston rings was Hudson. Might be a good thing to get professional advise but hold onto the car until paid.

[Rusty_OToole]

Have heard of re ringing old engines with thick piston rings, by using 2 modern rings of half the thickness.

[Dandy Dave]

Yup. I've done that myself in the past. These rings are already thin and actually measure 0.086. 1/16th is 0.0625. 1/8th is 0.125. If there were rings that were 3/32cds. They would be 0.0937 and about 0.006 too thick for the grooves. I did the homework a while back and totally forgot about this issue until digging though some old paper work.

[paulrhd29nz]

Could you not regroove the pistions?

[Bud Tierney]

DD: Did you investigate UK or Continent sources for those rings?? They may've used many non-us compatible sizes...

[JV Puleo]

The only other application for the 20-25 engine was the contemporary Bentley, albeit with different manifolding and carburation. Its been a long time (30 years or more) but I seem to remember that the last time I had one apart I bored it and replaced the pistons so never encountered this problem. I think I would have looked for another piston to use... but time is money and I don't do that sort of work for anyone but myself now and therefore don't think about the time as much.

The 20-25 is an OHV engine. The post-war sixes were F heads. The earlier engines are far easier to work on... until you've tried adjusting the valves (the manual says do them hot) on a Mark VI Bentley (1947-52?) you haven't felt uncomfortable... stretched over the fender, head down in the engine compartment working with 2 wrenches and a dental mirror on lifters behind a hot exhaust manifold.

[Dandy Dave]

I've done the things suggested on different motors in the past. At this point, the car is not mine. I've been told to stop all work. So it all stops until the issue of getting paid for what I was authorized to do at the time is satified, or whatever comes next if the bill is not satisfied. Not sure where this is going at the moment. Time will tell. Dandy Dave!

[trimacar]

Keep us updated. This happens every now and then, and it's interesting to see the outcome, hopefully it'll be one that leaves you whole....I know of a car that's been in a fellow's shop for over 25 years, man didn't pay the bill, isn't interested in selling the car, nor is the mechanic interest in pursuing any legal remedy...and there it sits!