Car Hobby Past and Future == Your OPINION

[1937hd45]

With Hershey 2 weeks away I keep thinking of all the previous meets and the car hobby in general. No secret my main interest is in Pre 1942 vehilces and race cars up to @ 1965. The Golden Years of the hobby were 1965-1980, and most of my great memories are from that era. Great cars, people and active restoration projects. Maybe I'm just burned out or the hobby changed and left me out. Not having a vintage car on the road in 10 years has saved me a bunch of money, but finding the internet part of the hobby sure has made up for the differance. eBay has made far more parts available at reasonable prices, than a lifetime of flea markets has, but it has killed the quality of the hands on markets. Never had any dream cars, I'm happy with the ones I have, they found me, never went looking for them. Remember standing by the snow fence in the Blue Field at Hershey wondering if some year the whole field would be full? It is..........it's Hershey Park.

[Durant Mike]

I think the hobby is going to continue for a long time. Although today's cars are not what I would say collectable, since most of them look alike, and the quality of them will probably not let them live as long, there will always be individuals who love cars and the past years when the automotive world was exciting. Most car companies are not making the splash that they used to with each new model year, and many are just left over designs of the previous. I do think as the world of muscle cars gets to be ridiculous in their prices, that you will see a shift to other cars. I also think you will see a time when the early teens, 20's and 30's cars will be a hot commodity due to their age.

[Dave@Moon]

I think all you really have to do is look to any other form of commodity collecting hobby. Are there not "classic" era watches? Airplanes? Guns? Postage stamps? People who collect fine china might not throw away a good set of Mikasa from 1983, but at the same time they'll be all over an early 19th century set of Wedgewood!

I think the era when finding unknown stuff worth saving in barns and estate sales will die soon just as did the era of doing so in the back lots of used car dealers. Restoration will become an ongoing process to preserve what's already been saved. Cars from outside the "classic" era (I still hate that word, but which's better to describe the cars from such a broad range of time {<span style="font-style: italic">1890-approx. 1970</span>}?) will be preserved as they are, but no one's going to be out there reproducing the 140 decals and the 50 different injection-moulded plastic bits (in five colors) unique to the 1988 Dodge Colt.

Also <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic">actually driving</span></span> the cars, especially as it increasingly becomes a different experience than driving then contemporary cars, will come back as the major emphasis of the hobby. As such I think the local aspect of the hobby will become more important, and the "national" emphasis on awards and shows will decline. I think that in the future we might well be thought of as silly for spending our time in the hobby standing around looking at and judging how shiny paint can be instead of enjoying the more unique aspects of our cars (relative to new ones). Trailering cars, except to deliver them over long distance, might well become extinct. The gas might cost $20/gal, but it'll be worth it as long as it's spent in enjoyment!

[ex98thdrill]

Without sounding offensive to anyone, I see the street rods taking over. That isn't something that I want to see, but something that I see in the horizon.

[Barry Wolk]

Dave,

You and I met at the Ault Park Concours. I've been attending since '04 and the show has grown in quantity and quality. I can't fathom that that end of the hobby will ever disappear. It's like going to a outdoor high-end car museum where the exhibits change every year. Where else would you have been able to see the GM Futurliner up close and personal? There are currently close to 200 Concours spreading across the country. You can see a good quality show just about every weekend, if you're willing to travel.

I believe that the future of the hobby is women. Get used to it fellas. Five years ago you hardly saw the wives of the concours contestants. The shows have all become lifestyle events with something to do for everyone. I'm now seeing many, many women owners of some amazing vehicles. I'm very pleased to see the change.

My wife is probably a good example of women entering the hobby. We had been spectators at Meadow Brook for all 30 years. We sat on the hill and drooled as the cars went by to collect their trophies. Five years ago we bought the Mark II convertible and entered the show end of the hobby. One of our first exposures to the show environment was representing 1956 in the Centennial Circle in front of Ford World Headquarters for the 100th. It was the Superbowl of car shows.

My wife had heard my whole story on the car so many times that she started talking to the crowd and really loved it. She also loved the art and fashion part of the automobile kingdom so it really clicked with her.

After a couple of years we were asked to judge, under the wing of an AACA judge. She loved it, I hated it. This is her third season judging. I'm much more of an organizer so I joined the executive board of a couple of regional concours and usually end up Ringmaster.

One of the shows is 3 hours away. She was thinking about resigning the board for next year because of the amount of travel to meetings. After enjoying the fruits of our labors at this year's great show, she has reconsidered and will continue on the board. Now she has her own show car. She's the future of the hobby.

[FomocoService]

I'll give ya'll a little different perspective.

I was born and raised into the hobby and tend to see things from a different point of view.

When I was younger I remember seeing lots of brass era cars and tons of Model A Fords at the shows. Flea Markets actually had car parts with no Taiwan tool dealers or chrome valve covers..etc. Down here the heydays of the car shows was 1981(for me I can't remember any earlier than that) to about 1994/95

Now it's mostly 60s-up cars and most of the swap meet vendors don't have car parts- excepting the Mexican Chrome parts vendors.

There are very few people my age(29) in the hobby around here.

Most of them are in their 50s-up. My generation is into the import cars and new cars, I'm assuming because of being able to finance.

When I'm 60 yrs old I predict the hobby will be a shadow of it's former self unless something is done now to encourage the 18-35 yr old demographic. Junior AACA is good , but these kids are too young to drive and don't have income to restore a car. the 18-35 demographic does. But yet this is the group that gets the least attention.

I'm the youngest member in my local region, as well a couple other car clubs I belong too.

I agree with ex98thdrill --- the street rods and custom cars are slowly taking over. I've bought many choice Model A parts from rodders who buy a restored car to cut-up.

Daytona Turkey Run killed the old Ormond Beach show that was in existence BEFORE the Turkey Run.Those in FL will know what I'm talking about.

[hwellens]

I have been going to Hershey since 1964 and enjoy looking at cars that were not new when I started driving. Back then only cars built prior to 1930 were eligible to show. All cars are worth restoring and showing. Many people are not interested in all years. However, due to the large number of cars and vendors it is about time to split the years. I would recommend Hershey meet be two weeks. One prewar and the other post war. The flea market, show field and parking would be manageble. The prewar flea markets seem to be doing OK in other places.

[rocketraider]

Based on this afternoon, I'm convinced young people will have a big influence on the hobby, same as women like Barry's wife.

While waiting to install new tires on the Ford truck, I struck up a conversation with a 20 yr old getting an oil change on his Toyota. Turns out this kid is: a Civil War reenactor, a train enthusiast, and has just started work on a 1968 Mustang coupe. Was knowledgeable about the car and soaked up old car talk like a sponge. Turns out he was aware of my Toronado, and his grandfather had painted a friend's Mustang some 15 years ago.

Family has several 60s Mustangs in a field, and the boy decided on his own which one to do. He picked the 68 coupe over a 66 convertible, simply because of his limited experience and funds and didn't want to get discouraged over a snowball project (convert has rotten floors).

I was impressed. More like him will ensure the future of our hobby, and I think they're out there.

[mbstude]

Well, I do what I can. I'm 17 and was born into the old car madness. And I have the only Orange Studebaker in the high school parking lot.

Sadly, there really are too few young people in the old car hobby. Get your old car out there and make it known to everyone. I know that just by driving my truck everyday has gotten more than a couple teenage kids interested. Even the little Flathead 6 engine in my truck is so unusual to most, they can't help but want to know more. Every little bit helps.

[The Old Guy]

I have been involved in the car hobby since I was 14 years old. In the first years, I wanted to go fast and had a 37 Buick Century while in high school. In 1950 I went fast at the wrong time and my Dad traded it for a 39 Pontiac 6. I have played with cars for 60 years, and believe that the hobby will change, but never die! 6 of my Grand sons live next door, and they like my 37 Buick street rod ,but I honestly believe they like my 40 Buick convertible more. Ther is still hope for the young ones ,so don't sell them short. The oldest grand son is 16 ,and he is already working on his Dad to let him have the 72 Skylark 4 door that is out back.

[MCHinson]

I am 46 years old. I have been involved in this hobby for about 21 years. My kids, 18 and 9 are interested in old cars because they grew up in the hobby.

My 9 year old daughter is more interested than my 18 year old son. My son has other interests right now, including college, bagpiping, working for a living, (a new experience for him), being an Assistant Scoutmaster in his old troop, and being involved in the Order of the Arrow. He is still interested in the old car hobby but just a little bit too busy with other things right now.

My daughter's only interests are Soccer, Basketball, Girl Scouts, and Old Cars. She is still trying to figure out how to inherit the Model A that I have now, and the 1951 Hudson Hornet that she plans for me to buy.

She says that she should end up with all of the old cars, because she spends more time with us at car club events than her older brother does. My son does not seem to agree with her logic.

While I really don't care for Street Rods and those little import hot rods, I am still optimistic.

People have been complaining about the younger generation for a couple of thousand years. As long as we continue to try to involve more young people, they will continue to get involved in the hobby.

While I am personally an exception, Most collectors initially get interested in the cars of their youth. That is why the pre-war cars were more popular years ago and recently the 50's and 60's cars seem to be more popular. Simply, the youth of the 50's and 60's are getting to where they are able to afford those cars that they so fondly remember. In my local area, the Model A Fords are now getting more popular again. Essentially, the first collectors are dying off and either their heirs, or some lucky buyer is getting to "recycle" those cars that were first restored years ago.

As long as those cars still exist, a new generation will come along and the hobby will continue. I too am worried about all of the plastic in today's cars, and our perception of ho-hum styling. I can't imagine that 30 years from now, many people will be trying to restore today's new cars. But, I also realize that technology will likely be developed in the next 30 years that will make today's cars more restorable than we might think possible today. So, I am still optimistic.

[Shop Rat]

If the hobby is to have a bright future, it must welcome the new folks just as we were. No matter what vehicles they collect.

To not do so will be the death of the hobby. We just lost Dan Binger. He is one of several that have passed away just this year.

[novaman]

To expand on Shoprat's post. Never ever bad mouth a street roder over hisher car. Yes, you can express disappointment over the fact that he/she turned it into a rod, but don't bad motuh it. Reason I say this is you never know what they might have at home in the garage or may purchase down the road. I know severl people with street rods that have an antique car at home. If I were to bad mouth their rod, they possibly would say something like "those antique car people are a bunch of snobs and I don't want to assocate with them". Now that antique would either sit in the garage or if it is a project car, could very well end up going from a restoreation to a rod project.

[Ron Green]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ex98thdrill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Without sounding offensive to anyone, I see the street rods taking over. That isn't something that I want to see, but something that I see in the horizon. </div></div>

I agree with Pat. Living in PA whom some consider one of the best states in the old car hobby (for # of old cars) I see very few original non-modified vehicles. There are still many old (non-modified) cars around but not near as many as there were just a few years ago.

At the local shows and there are numerous every weekend are now pretty much restro-rod / street rod or chopped up creations with fewer and fewer vehicles being factory. Even when Val & I are on the road we see the same trend. When people visit my shop the modified Corvette seems to be what most are drawn to.

I taught my nephew at 8 years old how to drive the Amphicar in the water and that lasted until he learned computer games (now 13). He also used to help me in the shop getting a car ready for Hershey and seemed very interested as I made it fun, not work. He loved wrenching on things. Not saying all kids won’t get in the hobby but I think the ones that do will be in the minority. Hopefully I am dead wrong.

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shop Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the hobby is to have a bright future, it must welcome the new folks just as we were. No matter what vehicles they collect.

To not do so will be the death of the hobby. We just lost Dan Binger. He is one of several that have passed away just this year. </div></div>

Shop Rat and others in this thread have touched on a very important point.

The future of the car hobby has to be one where people must be welcome no matter what vehicle they collect

or what age the vehicle or the person is.

Every time I read in the AACA Magazine or here on the discussion forums about another AACA member's passing I get sad.

Sad for the the family and friends of the person who passed and how much they meant to their loved ones.

It is also sad to think of the loss of all the car knowledge that is gone and makes one wonder how the hobby can survive

down the road without the old car knowledge that is leaving us when people in the hobby pass away.

It is a sad truth that a number of the people that are in the old car hobby are getting older themselves and becoming less involved in the hobby.

If these hobbists continue to leave the hobby and are not replaced in sufficient numbers, the hobby will, at some point,

cease to exist.

That is why I feel one of the best ways to insure the long term survival of the hobby and the AACA is to welcome

new people into the hobby and the club.

[1937hd45]

Is there really anyone you know thay after doing a smokey burnout in his Hemi Cuda gets in a Curved Dash Oldsmobile and goes on a back road tour? I highly doubt it, the hobby is split into far too many sections to function as a united group.

[The Old Guy]

1937HD

I must be the exception then and I am 74 years old. I still drag race my 72 GS, go to street rod meets with my 37 coupe, and am currently planning a tour for the local Buick club which will go down the back roads and will be led at 35-40 MPH. There is room for everyone in the hobby, and I challenge the street rodders to restore a car! I tell tham that anyone can build a car, but doing one right is a REAL challlenge.

[Mark Shaw]

I basically agree with the consensus that modified cars will be much more numerous than original restorations. However, I think everyone must keep in mind that this forum may not be the place where you will be exposed to original restorations. For that, you should all be going to HCCA events & tours. This group is dedicated to restoring and driving original pre-16 automobiles.

I belong to HCCA & the BCA where a couple of buddies and I founded the PreWar Division of the BCA (BCA PWD). We got tired of seeing only go-fast muscle cars & modified cars at BCA events, so we did something about it. It resulted in a new sub group of Buick enthusiasts who actually drive their prewar cars.

The future is what you make it. And, you will get out of this hobby what you put into it. Since we founded the PWD I have heard many stories of former BCA members with prewar cars that re-joined the BCa because we are now providing events for them to use and enjoy their older Buicks.

I got hooked into this hobby by my father when he bought a 27 Chevy to restore. He and I worked on it together and I learned a whole lot of stuff about cars working on this very simple example. He hooked me on touring old cars by asking me to help him start and drive his 13 Buick after his bypass surgury over 20 years ago.

I am now 55 years old and tour with all my prewar Buicks. My son, now 25 years old, owns the first Buick I restored with his help when he was just a grade schooler. Getting younger people involved by giving free rides in your cars, and inviting friends and family to join you on tours and car events will ensure the future of the hobby in your area will be what you enjoy doing in this hobby.

[ex98thdrill]

Charlie,

With everything that the national directors have done, and with everything that they continue to do, plus with the fine tune adjustments from guys like Steve and West, I think the club will be okay. I just see a majority of the cars being out there being street rods or resto-rods than I do authentic restorations.

With the high costs of restoring a vehicle, I see most people spending their money on something that has power steering, power brakes, AM/FM/CD player, power windows, automatic transmission. If someone only has the money to restore one vehicle, I see the money getting spent on something that is comfortable to drive that can run in traffic and keep up, rather than a car with a top speed of 45mph that isn't comfortable to drive.

Don't think that I'm pro street rod and anti-restoration, but when you look at the big picture, most of the street rodders log more miles on their rods than we do with our restored originals (because they're built to be driven).

When you look at the majority of the cars sitting on the showfields of our national meets, most of the cars that you see are the cars that can run fast enough to run with traffic. Granted some of that has to do with people buying cars that came from their own generation, but I think driveability is still as big of factor as someone else.

I know there will be arguements against my statements, but in all reality, how many people would take any pre 30's vehicle and go from New York to Florida by heading down the interstate?? As much as people complain about the street rodders, there are more of us that own and use car trailers than there are street rod guys. Those guys build what they want, how they want, and they drive them. A lot of us (myself included) can't say that about our vehicles.

[Stan Kulikowski]

I'm 30 and I started in the hobby by building a modified muscle car. After that build process, I realized that there is more of a challenge in doing a correct restoration rather than a hot rod. This led me to purchasing another muscle car to perform that correct restoration.

The longer that I'm in the hobby, the more I'm drawn to earlier vehicles. I have to admit that I don't have the desire to own a brass T or Curved Dash Olds, but I really enjoy watching these vehicles enter the show field and think about how far the automotive industry has come in 100+ years. Unfortunately, I think that I am in the minority in these interests. In fact, I have recently offered the elderly father of a purchasing agent that I work with to help maintain his 1913 Model T and 1917 V8 Chevy just so that I can continue to learn about where the automotive industry started.

I do think that for the hobby to survive the modern cars need to be accepted by all involved in the hobby. I can remember an incident at last year's judges breakfast at Hershey. I registered late because my fiance and I just purchased our first home and, well, Hershey judging wasn't as much of a priority as moving in to our new house was. I sat down to breakfast with the National Awards Judges while waiting for my judging assignment. A couple of the judges were discussing the classes that they were required to evaluate and what I felt was a disturbing comment was made by one of them who I won't name on this forum. The comment was "I have to judge the 79-80 production cars. These are just used cars. The have no place on a Hershey show field."

I can't identify with driving a Model T on the early roads of America, but I can identify sitting in my high school cafeteria with the other gear heads dreaming of Chevelles, Camaros, and even 50's Oldsmobiles and Hudsons. These are the cars that 18-35 demographic is passonate about in general. Making sure that these cars feel welcome on our show fields will be an important part of keeping the hobby alive.

[FomocoService]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iceman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm 30 and I started in the hobby by building a modified muscle car

I can't identify with driving a Model T on the early roads of America, but I can identify sitting in my high school cafeteria with the other gear heads dreaming of Chevelles, Camaros, and even 50's Oldsmobiles and Hudsons. These are the cars that 18-35 demographic is passonate about in general. Making sure that these cars feel welcome on our show fields will be an important part of keeping the hobby alive. </div></div>

Good post!!!! I agree 100%..

Tho I can't indentify driving a Model T when they were new.. I'd still like to own one.

I drive my '56 Ford and one of my Model A's as regular drivers. If nothing else it helps to expose the hobby- besides I gotta have something to drive!

[novaman]

I'm 41 and have been in the old car hobby for 41 years and still don't know how to drive a T. My first old car event was Hershey at the age of 14 weeks.

When I got old enough to drive, I enjoyed driving my dad's '49 Willys Jeepster. But I purchased something a little more praticle for me to drive which was a '64 Chevrolet Chevy II. Used it for a driver as well as to show when there was a class for it.

BTW, I'm trying to talk a fellow member that's a year older than I, into teaching me to drive a T and an A.

[1937hd45]

If you are sitting in a Model T can you reach the pedals with your feet? My daughter could when she way six years old and drove the T up the street to Grandma's, a week later I took the training wheels off her bicycle.

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: novaman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

BTW, I'm trying to talk a fellow member that's a year older than I, into teaching me to drive a T and an A. </div></div>

Bill learned how to drive one (a huckster) in one session from a guy (now deceased) that had at least three Model T's and a '39 Ford. Bill actually did very well driving it in a local parade.

Speaking of the '39, our friend's widow and his son were hauling it to Hershey three years ago to sell it. They didn't make it past Flatwoods in W. Va. from Charleston, W. Va. They had pulled into a rest area and a couple pulled up along side their truck with the car on a trailer. Seems they had been out looking at one and liked this one better.

A deal was struck, they dropped the car and trailer off at the folks house and picked the money and the trailer up on the way back. How's that for good timing of a rest stop?

[MCHinson]

Novaman, come on down to Wilmington anytime and I can teach you to drive an A. You are on your own on the T though. I want to learn how to do that too. I do have a local chapter member who has some T's who would probably teach us both.

[TexRiv_63]

I'm 58 years old and my first car memory is sitting on the fender of my Mom's '30 Model A daily driver while my Dad worked on the motor. My first car was a 55 Ford and I've lost count years ago of how many cars I've owned. I've been into 50s, 60s, 70s, musclecars (when they were worthless!)and LT1 full size stockers. My currently hobby car is a 63 Buick Riviera, but I just bought a 1928 Pierce Arrow! I don't think we should be too quick to write off the car hobby yet, there are a lot of people younger than me with just as eclectic interests and as the musclecars become too expensive for anyone to afford the older cars become more attractive. I do agree that driving and making these cars visible in places other than a show field is critical to keeping people interested, in my case the generous owner of a 24 Cadillac allowed me to view and drive his car and the sheer mechanical presence of that led me to buy my Pierce. Since then the open friendliness and help received from the PAS has quickly educated me in the basics to get the car running and driving. I brought the car to a charity show at my office and drove it around, the interest level from all age groups was very gratifying.

[Twitch]

Can't imagine how we can expect young people to be involved in the hobby when they can barely afford a pair of crummy transportation cars for him and her both to drive to work each day and stay involved in the zillion things kids have been scheduled for these days.

It's one thing for a high schooler to own a 20 year old car because that's what he can afford and another for him to own a real hobby car when he needs something dependable enough to get to school and part time job.

The thing that is most derogatory to vintage American vehicles perpetuating into the future as they are today is tuner cars. The majority of kids like and desire tiny Japanese cars with high revving engines. Yes we know your nephew Douggie likes pre-1960 Chevies or whatnot but the "majority" is the key word here.

Where we in the 1960s were into 283s, 409s and 390s- and still are- they're into whizzy, screamy, tiny engines in little cars produced overseas. What will not make them interested in the same thing 40 years from now that they're into now?

All the examples people on this forum describing their kids being interested are jaundiced since, well, this is not a wide open public forum. It is a specialty one with most people thinking the same. Anytown USA will have probably show 10% of kids showing interest in vintage vehicles and the remainder into tuner cars. We're lucky with the 10%.

As for the banal original vs. modified business, there are no "rodders" stupid enough to blow $15,000 or more on a restored Model A or T and tear it apart for the scant few accessory parts that might be useful! The chassis is no good. The running gear and brakes are pitiful for rodding. Gee maybe the body is all that is usefull for constructing a safe street rod. Would any of you put a 400 HP engine into an A or T's stock 80 year old chassis and expect to drive safely and stop with 1930 era brakes?

The simple fact is that all old cars need to be modified in one way or another to keep running at all. Whether it's an electric fuel pump or a replacement of a standard part with a modern one because that's the only way it will be roadworthy we do what we need to do.

There was a time when ALL of our cars were viewed as just "old cars." Sure many were sold for scrap or cut up by kids in the 1960s for hot rods. A '40 Ford was just an old car, nothing more. No one used the term classic or even vintage. An old car could be bought for $175. It wasn't rare in the least either,so who would be excited about it?

Go back to the 80s. There was very little organized vintage car activities or interest in a widespread sense compared to say, the last 10 years. Cruize-ins didn't exist. Look at the car show flyers you get. Except for the big time national ones when have you seen anything touting the "21st annual local yokel car show in Anytown USA?" We're lucky to see an occassional one being the "7th annual."

People messed with their cars drove them a little and kept them in the garage. Until about the 80s few people had enough disposable income for anything as expensive as a hobby car.

Many folks here are uniquely true hobbyists that joined national car clubs mirroring their specific interests. They've have had hobby cars for 40+ years. Unfortunately they are a minority. Most involved today have no illusions of intricate specifics regarding one marque or another

as per some club's rules. There values are not the same as our long time hobbyist and they aren't likely to change.

The future may be some investors supported by folks that will have vintage cars only as long as they have fun with them. They may sell them all and get into old wooden boats one day or vintage Cessnas. Certainly there will be less nostalgia for the sake of it and more buying as an investment with a few who simply buy because they have a whim and will spare no cost.

Enjoy your toys while you're alive and physically well enough to play with them. Worrying about what will happen to your belongings after you're dead reminds me of how many people talk about life insurance. "I'll get $100,000 when I die." YOU aren't getting anything.

[MCHinson]

I have to take exception to a couple of things that you wrote:

"The simple fact is that all old cars need to be modified in one way or another to keep running at all. Whether it's an electric fuel pump or a replacement of a standard part with a modern one because that's the only way it will be roadworthy we do what we need to do."

<span style="font-weight: bold">Unless you count modern authentic reproduction parts as modifications, I don't understand your point. You can easily drive a Model A Ford without modifications. You can't drive it at 70 miles per hour for hours on end comfortably, but you can drive it easily. More "modern" old cars are even more drivable than my Model A.</span>

You wrote:

"Go back to the 80s. There was very little organized vintage car activities or interest in a widespread sense compared to say, the last 10 years. Cruize-ins didn't exist. Look at the car show flyers you get. Except for the big time national ones when have you seen anything touting the "21st annual local yokel car show in Anytown USA?" We're lucky to see an occassional one being the "7th annual.""

<span style="font-weight: bold">My local AACA Chapter is in a town of less than 100,000 population. It was much smaller in 1972 when the chapter was formed. We had our 35th Annual Chapter Car Show earlier this year. </span>

[TG57Roadmaster]

MC,

Face it, those of us who've been in the hobby all our lives will <span style="font-style: italic">never</span> get through to the entrenched mindset that in order to enjoy our old cars, whatever make, year or model, they have to be hopped up with modern BS to make 'em roadworthy.

That's why we join clubs like the AACA or marque clubs that require them to be spec'ed as original. Let the newbies have their way, and their say, but there will <span style="font-style: italic">always</span> be purists around to keep some cars in their original state, be it survivor or restored.

The minute the AACA starts letting modified vehicles into shows, as many marque clubs have done (some quite controversially), that's the day I cancel my membership.

If being a purist makes me an elitist (though I can't imagine why), so be it. I believe there's plenty of room for all, regardless of the thickness of your wallet.

It's thick-headedness that really needs to be addressed.

TG

[Guest windjamer]

Teitch, I just went through about thirty flyers I rec. this season. All local,none from Hershey or carlisle,I did find 3 or 4 that where less than 5 years anual,most where enjoying ther 10th or better,ive got half a doz. hiting the 25 year mark and a quick look found one celabrating the 42nd and one at 47th anual. Come on frend and I do meen frend, welcome to civalistion. I know its spelled wrong.

[MCHinson]

I bought my first Model A when I was a young poor police officer. Thank God for my credit union. They were willing to give 100% financing to the tune of the princely sum of $4,500, to a 26 year old police officer. This allowed me to purchase a ragged ex-movie studio owned (meaning it barely would run) Model A Ford in 1986.

I knew a guy, who knew a guy, in the local AACA Chapter. My friend gave me the phone number of the AACA member. He asked me to drive it over for him to see it. He was nice enough to lie to me and tell me it was a great car and invited me to a meeting and their upcoming car show.

I entered that show, got a third place award, joined the club, and I have been active in the chapter ever since. I have a much nicer Model A Ford now. (I am embarassed now to admit what a dog that first Model A was.)

I am older, wiser, and hope that I can continue the traditon of encouraging younger people who are interested in the hobby.

I also run a Cub Scout Pack, so I do have some contact with today's youth. Young people who are exposed to old cars show a lot more interest in them than you might think. In my experience, Today's young people will continue to join the hobby if they are exposed to it and encouraged. We need to remember to be positive and encouraging, even when somebody shows up with a cheap old ragged Model A Ford or a similar car.

[Orin]

There will always be a crowd that collects 20th Century cars. The crowd will get smaller, as the people won't actually remember seeing any of these cars on the road, but there will be a dedicated group that loves them. Over time being part of the group of owners will probably require more resources -- parts will become more scarce and expensive, for example -- but there will always be a dedicated group.

[FomocoService]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

As for the banal original vs. modified business, there are no "rodders" stupid enough to blow $15,000 or more on a restored Model A or T and tear it apart for the scant few accessory parts that might be useful! The chassis is no good. The running gear and brakes are pitiful for rodding. Gee maybe the body is all that is usefull for constructing a safe street rod. Would any of you put a 400 HP engine into an A or T's stock 80 year old chassis and expect to drive safely and stop with 1930 era brakes?

The simple fact is that all old cars need to be modified in one way or another to keep running at all. Whether it's an electric fuel pump or a replacement of a standard part with a modern one because that's the only way it will be roadworthy we do what we need to do.

</div></div>

Both of my daily drivers are bone stock... a Model A Ford Truck and a '56 Ford Sedan- the only mod the sedan has is an underdash CD player.

I drive both of them everyday and they aren't modified. It's all in your comfort of the vehicle.

As far as rodders cutting up a 15K restored car.. well it happens all the time, just pick up any street rod/hot rod mag and the point will be made.

Not to mention the loads of parts I've gotten from rodders who have cut up a good formerly restored car.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Relative to the comments about modified cars, I think just the opposite here, modifying a pre-war to "fit" into today's driving styles misses the point. To me, it is not just the shape but the whole experience. My "A" is so different than even our 68 Olds and that is what makes it fun. Also really enjoyed a recent ride in a "T" - very different from the "A". To each there own, that is just one restorer's view.

I think there are many who agree. HD, we had some really nice stuff show for the pre-war show in Redding and even at Southbury. I think a lot of the long term owners of these cars just don't use them as much, for several reasons. I hope that when most start changing hands the hot rodding phase haa passed. I agree w/Twitch - most kids like the tuner cars, although I do not think that is a bad thing. Just like those into musclecars or sports cars. In fact, I do not think these kids will be nostalgic for hot rods at all, and there will be a glut of these cars - especially non-Ford, non traditional cars with no historic value no matter how well executed.

Collectors who are into automotive history, like those into brass today (saw a young family with a couple really nice brass cars a couple weeks ago.) who couldn't just be nostalgic because they were younger than my 43 years are typical of where I think the future is going.

On the downside, I saw a really nice, albeit not $15K 100% original & completeModel A coupe at a show two weeks ago - I s/w the proud new owner - yep, he can't wait to make a "traditional hot rod"out of it. His logic is just the opposite of what Twitch says - why buy a Brookville when I get the whole thing here? At least he may sell some parts - too bad, this would be a no brainer to make into a high point car.

On worrying about the future, well I recognize anyone can do what they want with their car, but I won't sell mine to anyone who is not interested in preserving it. They will need to be AACA, MARC or MAFCA members. Our other hobby, AKC German Shepherds - breeders don't sell to just anyone, why do that with a car you have cherished? I think a lot of these old timers think the same.

One last comment, yes, involve the wives. Mine is great, and she pushed for our postwar car! A lot more fun than solo.

[MarkV]

I am 19 years old, I have been into the antique cars since I was little and my grandpa and I worked on the old '21 Chevy (he wanted me to drive it to school!) I finally got it road worthy and trusty this year, after my grandpa died my grandma gave me the car (I am the only grandson!) My collection at that point also included a 1966 Mustang that was in good condition that I bought when I was 12 with money from baby sitting my sister, I drove that car on the FWY for 2 years in a row to High School. My collection then grew to my mom's dad's 1941 Dodge Luxury Liner Coupe that my mother was almost born in, that I found abandoned on a property that my grandmother owns, It sat for 20+ years and it did not run, now it runs perfectly and I drive it all the time, I just got a paint job from Earl Scheib (everyone calm down!) and they did a fantastic job on the rust repair and the paint. Then I purchased my Uncle's 1978 MKV for $500 (he was going to donate it and I told him NO!) to use for college and it runs perfect and I had the air fixed and a new alt. in it. My Aunt's parents were the orig. owners.

My most recent addition is a 1948 Lincoln Cont. (the one in the pic.) That belonged to my grandpa, but, he sold it in 1991 (he bought it in 1975) when I was 3 (in 1991) and I was able to find it about 6 months ago and I bargained with the owner and after a small loan from my dad I brought it back into the family again! It is still all original! Down to the Paint and the interior! All of my cars stay original and are not screwed up by flames wheels and 350's!. I love the orig. look of the old 40's cars especially, pontoon fenders and all and the sound of the engines! I was in the Hemmings classic car July 2006 issue in the next generation section and my '41 dodge will be in Hemmings classic car again sometime soon (they already took the pics.)(pre-paint job) Also, my cars are not jammed in a garage and kept there and driven once a month I drive all of my cars at least a few times a week, I also drive them to school. I always say, that all of the costs for all of my old cars does not even equal what a new piece of junk would cost! Also people always say, you must have money because you have old cars and I tell them that it is the exact opposite, I DONT have money because I have old cars!

[ex98thdrill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">people always say, you must have money because you have old cars and I tell them that it is the exact opposite, I DONT have money because I have old cars!</div></div>

AMEN!! I get that all the time too.

[rocketraider]

That is unfortunately also a prevailing attitude in local governments who want to tax them at exorbitant and unrealistic values.

I'm convinced that had a lot to do with the recent antique plate mess here in VA. The sponsor of that misguided legislation is on Cities Counties and Towns subcommittee, and I believe the ultimate goal of this is to put antique plate cars back in the personal property tax system. Lord help us if that happens. The pinheads would tax every old car based on Barrett-Jackson.

Wes, you have quite a stable for a young guy, and all interesting cars. You are the future of AACA. Seems I remember reading about you in HCC, I'll dig out the back issues and read it again.

[ex98thdrill]

SSSHHHHHH!!

Don't give New York any ideas....

[novaman]

I like the NC personal property tax thing. If you have antique auto tags, the tax value is $500. If you don't and it isn't registered heaven help you. The county tax man gets to decide value and every one is usallay valued at #1 or higher. Had to take photos of the two '63 Chevy IIs I'm working on to show they are non-driveable then he brought the valvue down to match the value on the '63 Chevy II that is registered with antique tags and is drivable.

We can also run year of manufacture tags as long as the car is registered with antique tags and you must carry those tags with you. Also with the antique tags there is no state inspection.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As for the banal original vs. modified business, there are no "rodders" stupid enough to blow $15,000 or more on a restored Model A or T and tear it apart for the scant few accessory parts that might be useful! </div></div>

On the contrary, this is virtually a daily occurrance. I'll bet, in fact, <span style="font-style: italic">at least</span> 10 cars on the field next week in Hershey will suffer this exact fate within 12 months. It'll be over 100 within 5 years. The advantages ("all steel", tax, registration, expense, pedigree, etc.) are too good to resist.

And it would be just dandy if it was only the Model T and Model A classes I'm talking about. It ain't.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The simple fact is that all old cars need to be modified in one way or another to keep running at all. Whether it's an electric fuel pump or a replacement of a standard part with a modern one because that's the only way it will be roadworthy we do what we need to do. </div></div>

I've always thought of "making an antique car roadworthy", as if there were no roads in 1930, as the equivalent of purchasing extreme mountaineering gear to go climb the escalators at the mall. The difficult nature of moutaineering, as well as that of driving an antique car, <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">is</span></span></span> it's appeal. It completely misses the point of preserving these cars to use them as a costume on Sunday for the same old stuff that takes you to work on Monday. They're not dress-up!

That said, I don't think it's a good idea to deny the modifications for saftey or funcionality (within the limits of what that word meant when the car was new) any more than it's a good idea to deny mountaineers modern insulation and equipment. When a car <span style="text-decoration: underline">can't</span> perform at all is different from when it <span style="text-decoration: underline">could</span> perform better. Baseball can be made "better" too with steriods.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The thing that is most derogatory to vintage American vehicles perpetuating into the future as they are today is tuner cars. The majority of kids like and desire tiny Japanese cars with high revving engines. </div></div>

The show them somethng else. The majority of 70 year olds don't belong to the AACA either. All you have to do is expose people and the interest will develop in them like it did in us.