Shop Rat

Hello. Thanks so much for asking about me. Bill and I are still active with judging. For about thirteen years I was doing a lot of babysitting and got busy. I need to come back.

I totally agree with packards42. The way we judge, with the exception of the scores, is an open book. Please do sign up and go to the judging school at the next meet you go to. And the roundtable discussion which is usually just prior to the judging school. Go at each meet until you fully understand how and why we judge the way we do. It gives owners a leg up on the owners that don't go.

When I was Team Captain at Hershey there were three vehicles in the 27e class (62-63 production vehicles) that had P type radial tires and one that had regular radial tires. How is the AACA going to get owners to understand and comply with the rules about tires? This was the first time I had seen that many vehicles with those tires in one class. One guy was nearly nasty when I approached him to talk to him about the P-radials he had on one of his cars. He said, "I will NEVER put bias ply tires on that car!!" Yet the other car he had there had the correct tires. His wife was horrified that he acted like that and talked to me away from where he was. I hope she can calm him down and get him to understand that he needs to put correct tires on the car if he wants it to go higher in the program. They were the only one going for an award and didn't get it.

Yes, you need to stay within the GE brand or replace all of them so that they match by brand and era within the brand. Some folks think that GE and General Electric are the same. They are not the same era. Brand no longer matters. ie,, vehicles that came from the factory with T-3 headlights no longer have to have those. Purists will still seek them out and use them. The change was made several years back when the T-3 headlight supply dried up. Now they are being produced again but the rule has not been reversed. Honestly from my perspective it seems a bit nitpicky to be looking at the number of refractive ribs to say they don't match. And headlights are something I always take a good look at if I am the exterior judge or the Team Captain. Many now are trying to slip Halogen headlights in or mixing the brands.

Yes I read the other part of his statement. The first part of the General Policy should always be displayed with the qualifying portion as well. The part about the purists not vapor locking smacks very much of him being okay with modifications. If he is then he should not be implying that the rest of us should. Like I said, the rules have not changed. If they do many "purists" will ditch the AACA like rats jumping off of a sinking ship.

He forgot to quote the whole General Policy. And implied that we accept that "and dealers, then and now, will do whatever is possible to make the customer happy. We must understand this and apply it in a reasonable manner." That goes against everything in the rest of that policy. We are taught year after year that only factory authorized options are to be accepted without deductions. The rules have not changed. Otherwise we will be judging street rods, rat rods and modifieds. The General Policy should have been quoted in it's entirity. Not just the part that many want to use to do what they want.

We don't "assume" things are wrong when we judge. We ask for factory documentation. In the absence of that the Team Captain can accept or reject the information the owner does provide. We are to err on the side of the owner if the team is not 100% sure about a deduction. Also a good idea is to remind the owner that they are entitled to 1.5 hours of free research through the AACA Library and Research Center. And that copies of documents from there are accepted by the judges.

Correct. It is my understanding that this also happened last year at the Charlotte Meet. But since we attended the Team Captain School we attended other CJE's after the judges breakfast. We just didn't pick up on there not being a Team Captain CJE since we had attended the Team Captain School the day before to keep our certification current. I spoke with Herb and he indicated that we can attend the Team Captain School or the Team Captain CJE at the next Meet we go to during this calendar year. The Team Captain School or Team Captain CJE are the only required classes other than the mandatory CJE at milestones.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for those kind words Wayne. The reason I asked about a Team Captain CJE was because as a Certified Team Captain all of us that are must attend either the Team Captain School or a Team Captain CJE to remain certified. If we don't within the calendar year we are put on the inactive list until we do. Bill and I have attended the Team Captain School at the Charlotte Meet for about three years. But we decided to go to the regular Judging School this year. With the intentions of going to the Team Captain CJE after the breakfast. So when no one indicated they were teaching it I asked. We will have to attend one or the other at the Louisville Meet or at the latest the Hershey Meet.

If a Team Captain School is going to be offered at a Meet, but the Team Captain CJE is not going to be offered, there should be a sign posted as judges come into the area where the schools will be held. Bill and I had gone to the Team Captain School at the Charlotte Meet for at least two years. This year, thinking there would be a Team Captain CJE on Saturday after the breakfast, we decides to go to the regular Judging School. After the judge's breakfast.....no Team Captain CJE. Had we known there wouldn't be one we would have gone to the Team Captain School. The issue would be if for some reason we couldn't get to another meet, neither of us would have completed the requirement to remain in compliance with the requirements to be Certified Team Captains.

License plate frames/stickers/vinyl lettering /even the metal dealer names are considered advertising and as such would be deducted for. This came up several years ago in a Round Table meeting.

Not being picked as a Team Captain once someone is Certified does happen as more people need to be certified. We were told about that at the beginning of that program. Sometimes we are and sometimes we are not depending on their needs. But at Grand Nationals they do try their best to have as many of the Team Captains as possible as be Certified Team Captains.

Has anyone else received a letter from Herb Oakes stating that they have been put on the inactive list as a Team Captain/Certified Team Captain with the reason stated that they haven't fulfilled the requirement to remain active by attending the required Team Captain School or Team Captain CJE? And the letter states that it might go back as far as at least 2009??? Bill got one of those letters yesterday as did a friend of ours. Both of them have indeed not only fulfilled that requirement but are Certified Team Captains and have served as such many times since it was claimed they were not in compliance with the rules. There has to be a computer glitch or something that has given him bad information. There have been glitches in the past. I got a call several years ago from the gentleman that was the Chief Judge for Fall Hershey saying that I had not attended the required Judging School to judge at Hershey and that neither had Bill. When I was able to get in touch with Vicki Bolton she confirmed that we had both attended the new (at the time) Team Captain School at the Spring Charlotte Meet and she called him and cleared that up. When he called us we were half way to Hershey. It was a scary thing to have happen. Now this happens. Anyone else get a letter like that? Or know of someone that did?

I agree. I have promoted folks going to the judging school and CJEs for years just to learn how and why we judge the way we do. And now with the Official Judging Guidelines available on-line for free they don't even have to buy one. Or if, as you suggested and I have in the past, they go to the class they get the book for free. AACA judging is not a secret handshake closed group. Judges will help anyone that wants to learn. In the past at Hershey after the judging I would pick someone from the class I judged or was Team Captain for and go back and hand them my copy of the Guidelines. Not one person turned them down. Everyone took them and thanked me. Now I suggest they come here and read the book here.

What it looks like doesn't matter. What it is matters. How did you not get that from what Rick Marsh wrote? The debate is over. He clarified the rule. If the rule ever changes officially then judges will judge according to the new rule. Until then we judge by the current rules.