Bill Harrah Collection ====TODAY

[1937hd45]

Back in the "Golden Years" of the hobby The Bill Harrah Collection was the centerpiece of all car collections. I got to see it twice before he passed away and the bulk of it was auctioned off. There were great magazine features on the cars, and several books that allowed everyone who couldn't get to Reno, Nevada an overview of the collection. Has anyone been out to Reno recently to see what is left? Do you have any memories to share?

[Jim Bollman]

Haven't been out since the collection was auctioned off but made it once when he was still alive and the collection was intact.

Besides the obvious memories of all the fantastic cars, I took many rolls of film, remember that stuff. My memory is that there were very few visitors the day I visited and I notice a fellow giving a private tour to someone. Wasn't till weeks later when I saw a picture of Bill Harrah that I realized it was him doing the private tour.

[Dave Mitchell]

I never had the opportunity to see the Harrah collection, but the NAHC museum that is in Reno now has perhaps over 200 cars from the Harrah days, and it is a nice museum, thoughtfully laid out and showcasing a number of one of a kind cars and some very significant automobiles - such as the round the world race winning Thomas Flyer and the Phantom Corsair by Bohman & Schwartz. There are big classics like a MB Special Roadster, Hispano Suiza J12 sedan with the lines of a coupe, Al Jolson's 33 Cad 16 All Weather Phaeton, 38 Packard 12 Coupe Roadster, etc along with early cars, race cars, 50s and 60s cars. One display that I liked was a late 20s or early 30s used car lot. I saw it in 1998 and it has probably changed by now, but it surely is worth seeing if you are anywhere near there.

I am lucky enough to own an ex Harrah collection car, which is sort of fun. People still know and respect that collection even though Harrah has been gone quite a while.

Dave Mitchell

[ronbarn]

I visited the old collection a couple of times before Bill Harrah passed on to that great restoration shop in the skies. The problem in those times was that there were so many cars, you got "information overload" by the time you got half way through. Before the second auction I visited to see a specific car, a 1904 Cadillac that was to be auctioned. It was not on the floor of the museum and I asked if I could look at it in the storeroom and take some photos since I was (and am still) restoring one. They took me to the storeroom with a guard to make sure I didn't take any thing off of the car. After about 15 minutes the guard determined that I was honest and knew what I was doing, so he left me in the warehouse full of cars - talk about an enthusiast in hog heaven.

Three years ago Sally and I took a trip to California to visit relatives, friends and automotive museums. Visited the NAHC for the first time since the auctions. Was very impressed with both the vehicles and the presentation. The only problem I had was that the sole Marmon remaining was a forlorn looking Model 34 (1923) in a dark corner of one of the rooms. Bill Harrah was known to say that his Marmon SIXTEEN was one of his favorite cars, but it was not there.

I'll go along with the recommendation above - definitely a museum to go out of your way to visit.

[1937hd45]

Thanks Ron, I'm posting photos of both cars, the yearly index of cars Harrah's published was something I always looked forward to.

[1937hd45]

The 1904 Cadillac.

[CarlLaFong]

I went to Harrah's one time and took 5 or 6 rolls of pictures. There was something wrong with the camera and not one picture came out. Gave that camera a flying lesson. It was a once in a lifetime thing. All those cars. All the Fords and Franklins were a bit much. The Bugatti Royale was amazing, though Briggs Cunningham had two of them at the time. I've always been an old bike guy and he had a nice collection of two wheelers including my all time fave, a Crocker. The Ford Trimotor was pretty cool. Love some of the offbeat stuff too. The Pierce motorlodge, Stout Scarab. I need to visit the new museum some day. I can almost see the Nethercutt Museum from my house and have never been there. Can't really explain why. They have a dress code. No jeans, T shirts, flip flops etc. I'd have to buy a new wardrobe.

[gwells]

I've visited the Harrah collection only once, in 1979 or 1980 (while on a San Francisco-Atlanta journey with West's father, Donald R. Peterson BTW. Our transportation was a 1968 Shelby GT500 convertible and we didn't put the top up the entire way!).

What I recall most was quickly becoming almost numb from seeing so many rare, historic, and one-of-a-kind cars. Call it sensory overload if you want. The museum displays then were pretty much non-existant, just a couple of huge warehouses with row upon row of cars, most of which were simply identified as to make and year.

For some reason, when we visited the Bugatti Royale town car was parked outside, between the two buildings and it was great fun to be able to inspect that famous vehicle from all angles.

I'm glad I was able to visit the Harrah collection before it was downsized. Just wish we'd had more time there.

[West Peterson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Our transportation was a 1968 Shelby GT500 convertible and we didn't put the top up the entire way!).</div></div>

I believe I remember hearing that the alternator went out on the Shelby during that trip, somewhere in Nevada and 150 miles on the other side of nowhere. A proper replacement was found on a Falcon or Comet that was found sinking into the desert sand.

And wasn't that the same trip when he -- as a license plate collector/enthusiast -- kept speeding up to try and identify the plate on the car ahead, only to watch that car continue to raise his speed? It turned out the "interesting" license plate belonged to an unmarked patrol car. Chiing, ching, $$, badabing.

[West Peterson]

I went to the auction in 1987 as Managing Editor of Car Collector magazine. Waved to my dad from across the room and raised the bid on a Delahaye by $5,000!

[Dr Morbius]

Hah, I thought that only happened in Abbot & Costello movies - except for the Delahaye part of course!! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

............................Steve

[1937hd45]

I've got every catalog from the Harrah auctions, most have the sales prices noted. Lots of those vehicles went at giveaway prices back in the late 1970's. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[gwells]

West, it was actually a starter and the complete story is too long to tell here, though you have the essentials correct. We were darn near stranded for at least 2 days, possibly more, in the middle of Nevada over 100 miles from the nearest town, until a wise mechanic remembered that all Ford engines used the same starter. We retrieved a starter from a junked early '60s Falcon six-cylinder station wagon quietly rusting in the distance and, praise the Lord, it actually worked after being installed in the Shelby (which was an automatic BTW and could not be push-started).

I'll never forget the elation we both felt when the starter cranked the engine. As we roared eastward with the setting sun behind us, your dad turned to me and deadpanned, "I'd rather be lucky than good!"

That speeding ticket story must have happened on another of your dad's many journeys; it didn't occur on that trip. If it had, I would not have forgotten it. In fact, I'd probably still be laughing at him! 8-)

There are some other terrific stories from that epic trip, but another time, okay?

[ronbarn]

A couple of weeks before one of the auctions (I think it was the second) I was showing a car at the Huntsville Depot which was scheduled to be the Alabama State Transportation Museum. During a conversation with one of the Depot directors I suggested that what they needed was an Erskine since Russel Erskine was a native of Huntsville. The guy asked, "Where in the world would we find one." My response was, "In couple of weeks there will be one available at the Harrah's auction - a 1927 roadster." At the time I guessed it would sell for about $14,000 or $15,000. This was all just a casual conversation, so you can imagine my surprise when I heard that the guy went to Reno with a blank check from the city. He was the successful bidder at $14,500 and immediately arrainged for rail shipment directly to the Depot. When it arrived it was missing one hubcap (it was there at the auction). We decided to put the top up, but when we removed the boot we found out it was stuffed with cotton - no top at all. We checked all the fluids and started the engine. It had a significant rod knock.

Unfortunately, the Depot was going through a management crisis at the time so the car was rolled into a corner of a shed and pretty much forgotten. Over the years some members of our AACA Region made several offers to work on the car but the management rejected those offers. Finally about two years ago a couple of local men "discovered" the Erskine and pursuaded the current Depot director to let them work on it. They have it looked pretty good and have made repairs to the engine. Hopefully this ex-Harrah car will soon take it's rightful display space at the Depot.

[1937hd45]

I'm guessing it's this one. Don't know why, but I'm always interested in a cars life after it has been in a famous collection. An exHarrah, exAustin Clark, exZimmerman, etc. car always has something going for it that makes it stand out from the crowd.

[Dave Mitchell]

If you are ever looking through those Harrah auction catalogs, and you happen to see a 1941 Packard 1905 (model 160, 148" wheelbase)custom bodied limo in really bad condition, I would like to know what the date was of the auction and how much it brought. I think it was sold at one of the first auctions, perhaps even just before Harrah died. It has a Bohman & Schwartz body, but Harrah never researched it, so they didn't know who the coachbuilder was.

[ronbarn]

Bob, that is the Erskine. For some reason I keep thinking of it as a 1927, but indeed it is a 1928.

[KRK Sr.]

Dave, I just checked the June 30th, 1979 Sale catalog, the '41 Packard was not sold that weekend. I have a later catalog, but it's "awol" at the moment. When I find it, I will check that one too. Karl

[Guest c.johnson]

I remember visiting the Harrah collection in '79 when I was on a High School trip. 2 Huge buildings, and an Ford Tri-moter airplane right in the middle of one of them!! WOW!! I didn't want to leave then... Definitely information overload... The only cars I really remember were the Packards and Deuseys. Maybe thats when the old car bug got me <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Went to the museum last year, nicely done. They have a lot of the specialty cars. Even a copper cooled Chev - only 2 survivors - too bad they don't let you see the engine.. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

They have a website that shows some of the cars:

http://www.automuseum.org/

Enjoy!!

(Very nice, but once in a while I could still use the 2 warehouse fix!!)

cj

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Neat thread !

As a kid growing-up in the '70s, I remember reading/hearing about Bill Harrah's collection, but never got to see it.

I WAS fortunate enough to visit the Zimmerman collection outside of Harrisburg, PA ( Automobile-a-rama ), and fondly remember all the brass & nickle cars ( a Ford model K among them!), and all the wonderful band-organs and nickelodeons wheezing and tootling away !

That kind of stuff makes a VERY strong impression on a 10 year-old... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (I haven't be "right" since! )

[1937hd45]

The Zimmerman collection was on a par with Harrah's only smaller. It was a collection that was started in the early 1930's in Massachusetts and Gene Zimmerman moved it to the multi level building he built for it. I always thought the custom made carpet in the isles with the Zimmerman Highwheeler was real classy. The Pierce Arrow that was hanging from the celing along with other chassis was fully restored and won a First Junior at Hershey a few years ago. Guess this thread will ramble on about great collections that are now lost. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[Mark Huston]

Living just down the mountain from Reno, NV in the Sacramento, CA valley I used to stop in to see the Harrah Collection every chance I could. I was attending the Bill Harrah Swap Meet and car show at the time Bill Harrah passed away. It was a big loss for old car hobby. What I never could understand is why Bill Harrah kept his car collection as an asset of the Harrah casinos instead of a separate personal asset protected with a lifetime endowment that would have kept the collection together after his death. As soon as Holiday Inn bought the collection the bulk of the cars got auctioned off. I attended one of the earliest of the auctions to liquidate the collection. It was quite an experience. We attended the auction as registered bidders with the thought of picking up a Bill Harrah car. No such luck. We quickly found the prices that people were paying for cars that we thought we could get were way beyond what we could afford. At that auction (don?t recall the year) the highest priced car auctioned off was 76,000 for a Stutz Bearcat that was sold to a Doctor in Denver, CO. We all thought that was way too much and an example of auction fever. I have a picture of me standing next to the 76,000 Stutz Bearcat. At the time it was the most I had ever heard of anyone paying for a car.

A year or two later I stopped by to see what was left of the Harrah?s collection. My brother and I both had our girlfriends with us and we wanted to show them the Harrah?s car collection. I am sure they were bored out of their minds. At this time both of the big Bugatti Royals were still in the collection. The two Bugatti Royals were sitting side by side with the DeVille Royal next to the isle rope. We were trying to look in the back of the DeVille (trying to impress our girlfriends with our knowledge of old cars) but we could not see anything. At this point one of the young guys working for the Harrah?s collection came by and offered to open up the driver?s side passenger door so we could look in the back. He could not get the door open. So he went around to the right rear door and got into the back seat and tried to open the door from the inside. Still the door would not open so the guy starts to BANG HARD on the door trying to force the door open. Both my brother and I were shocked to see how this restored Bugatti Royal was being mistreated by a museum staff member. We both told him never mind, that?s OK, just forget it, and we walked away. To this day every time I see a picture of that Bugatti Royal DeVille I remember the museum guy in the back seat banging on the door trying to get it open. I am sure if Bill Harrah was still around at that time that would never have happened. But the Holiday Inn Corporation had a different set of values when it came to the old cars.

[jrbartlett]

Let me make a point about the Harrah collection that no one else has mentioned. The fact that he didn't provide for its preservation meant that many hundreds of cars went back into the marketplace where they were again available to collectors -- some of whom were also admittedly rich, but many of whom were just regular guys who managed to get the cars back on the road and enjoy them, and even pass them down to others later on. Sure, the big collections gather a lot of cars together, where you might be able to see them (sometimes; many big collections are private, if not secret). I'm glad most of Harrah's collection was sold. It would be a shame for all of those cars to have been locked away forever.

[1937hd45]

Mark, I can't remember the source but I did read that Bill Harrah wanted to put the cars in a trust of some kind and keep the collection intact after he passed on, but the IRS killed it. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[Guest brassnutboyz]

Who has a list of the cars sold and to whom at the Harrah auction and the Holiday Inn auction? Brassnutboyz

[poci1957]

I never got to see the Zimmerman collection but I met Mr Zimmerman in the late 1980s while working on his V16 Cadillac, I just recently came across my Auto-rama commemorative ashtray and grille medallion he gave me then. Thanks for the reference, made me smile!

[alsancle]

Who has a list of the cars sold and to whom at the Harrah auction and the Holiday Inn auction? Brassnutboyz

You can buy the auction catalogs off of ebay. As for who bought the cars, I doubt that information exists or if it does I doubt its available.

[Guest brassnutboyz]

Does anyone know who the auctioneer was for the Harrah' auction. They might have the purchasers name.

[Guest Nancy DeWitt]

Our museum is fortunate to own seven former-Harrah cars: 1906 Compound, 1917 Owen-Magnetic, 1919 McFarlan, 1920 Argonne, 1921 Heine-Velox, 1922 Wills Ste. Claire and 1928 Pierce-Arrow (Model 81). We're not sure if our 1921 Daniels was at Harrah's once or not. Like most of our museum cars, all of these will be driven during the summer.

I found a photo of our McFarlan at Harrah's on eBay recently and would be interested in finding more photos of our cars while at Harrah's. We recently showed the McFarlan at the Kirkland Concours in Washington,. It and the Heine-Velox are getting some restoration work done before being shipped to Alaska.

Nancy DeWitt

projects@fdifairbanks.com

[frankmc]

Two comments. One Harrah and one Zimmerman. In the mid 60's we owned a 1926 Oldsmobile all original with 6500 miles on it. Somehow Harrah's found out about it and sent a representative to look at the car. Since it was the first use of chrome plating on a production car Harrah wanted one for his museum. We must have asked too much since he didn't purchase ours. I visited the collection in 1971 and a 26 Olds was there with a sign telling about the first use of chrome plating. In 1978 we purchased a car out of the Zimmerman collection which was either in bankruptcy or IRS trouble. The lean on the title was for 3 million dollars.

Edited October 20, 2009 by frankmc (see edit history)

[Ivan Saxton]

It was 1980 that I was lucky enough to see the Harrah Collection, which was after quite a few cars, mostly unrestored, had gone; yet the collection was largely intact and there was still restoration in progress on some notable cars.

in the early -mid 1960's I had a little correspondance with Bud Catlett and Ralph Dunwoodie, mostly in response to queries about cars I had initially. Then about 1968 I learned that Bud was coming out with the HCCA as guests of the Veteran Car Club of Australia and would be on their rally (or Tour as you say) based at Terrigal which is on the coast far enough north of Sydney. Stuart Middlehurst and I decided to attend in his 1912 Alfonso Hispano Suiza. Bud seemed a bit sceptical initially that such a young bloke actually had all the (unrestored ) cars I said I had, till he saw a few photos and realised I knew exactly what I was talking about. Then in 1970 Harrahs were represented in the 1970 FIVA International Rally from Sydney To Melbourne by Bud and Bernice in the 66hp Pierce Arrow, and Ray and Sylvia Jesch in a Thomas Flyer. Mr Harrah and his wife were also planning to come, but unfortunately his relationship with her (Bobbie Gentry) suffered a terminal malfunction, and they were absent. Anyway, apparently the Pierce had to run the first two days on the trembler coil ignition because the magneto timing was wrong, and I met Bud again while he was messing around trying to fix it himself without obvious success. Well, as you do, I suggested helpfully that you have to do these things according to basic first principles; and next thing I was turning the crank to TDC#1, and setting the timing at points just breaking full retard with Bud watching me like a policeman(as he was). It was fine.

On the way back to Sydney along the secondary highway, it was arranged that they would stop at Druion to see the cars several of us had around there. Then we were to have lunch at my parents'home. As it happened, there were thre extra people for lunch on short notice, Al and Martha Helwig from California, and a lad from Sydney who was taking a ride back there in the Thomas. That was not a bother to cope with, and about half an hour after we stepped in the door the meal was ready to serve up. They threee ladies had it on the plates so quickly that it was almost too hot to eat when we sat down.

Some months later I got a phone call from Bud at work asking me to examine and report on an unrestored original 4 cylinder Delaunay Belleville which was offered to them by a rather shifty fellow about 100miles north of Melbourne. I saw the car again in storeage at the collectionwith new hickory in the wheels but otherwise as it was. Several years later I went to Sydney to give them a detailed report on a 2litre OHC Chenard Walcker, which they did not buy.

Bud had arranged that he would show me around the collection, but when I got to Reno his phone was not answering at all. So Jim Edwards showed me around, including the restoration shop where I photographed the FRP , the car designed and built by Finley Robertson Porter after he left Mercer; and one of the Bugatti Royales, whose engine was out and stripped down to correct some serious problem. I have since learned from friends with Bugattis that they do get serious problems. The unrestored Roamer Duesenberg had been sold to a man in California who had several others so I never saw that. An there were so many extraordinary cars there, that I walked past cars that here I would have spent half a day looking over and crawling under. Jim gave me a sticker for my overalls and left me to wander round as I liked, including inside the ropes; but I was not permitted to touch anything. One car I photographed in some detail was the black 1927 Stutz Black Hawk speedster from the racing team. Some years later I was given copy of a drawing with necessary measurements that several clones were made from. (I must get my feet untangled from my beard and finish the one I started.)

Two cars from the collection I have seen and ridden in. I met Charlie Norris at Auburn, and some weeks later when in Portland Oregon a Mercer friend took me around to visit him. Charlie had reduced his number of J model Duesenbergs from four to two, and had bought a maroon V8 WillsStClaire from Harrahs dispersal. He gave it plenty of time to warm up, and it was mechanically noisy. I was unimpressed by its road performance, but suspected it was capable of better. It was not a car restored by Harrahs, but considered reasonably presentable.

The other ex-Harrah car that I saw and rode in was at Alton Walker's home inside the Pebble Beach golf course in 1984. Alton was a very early member of HCCA, and a pilot most of his life I believe. His house was in the Golf course because he was there first; and the tee for the first sudden death play-off was right outside his front fence. The reason I corresponded with him was a mutual interest and ownership of Locomobile 3litre OHV straight eight cars about mid-twenties. Mine is very rough. His was another unrestored but presentable ex-Harrah roadster.

It also did not perform as enthusiastically as I had expected. I supposed my expectations are biassed by my experience with Mercer, and now also my Roamer-Duesenberg.

I apologise that I have used a lot of words to tell you about just two ex-Harrah cars.

[john2dameron]

NANCY DEWITT: The 1984 auction catalog shows a 1919 McFarlan four-passenger sport touring, Model 125. The info I recorded with the catalog states that it was in #4 condition and sold for $35,000.

Brassnutboyz: Dean Kruse (Kruse International) did the auctions in 1984, 85 and 86.

[john2dameron]

1n 1984 I spent several days camped in Donnor Pass, CA. Every morning as soon as I could get my wife and three kids in the car I'd head for Harrah's. When I got there I would hang a cassette recorder on my belt and a microphone on my shirt so I did not have to keep notes. I went through every aisle, down one side and up the other taking pix. The family would walk down one aisle with me and sit down at the end of it (there were benches along the wall). I go back up the other side of that aisle and down the next and they would rejoin me as I returned back up that aisle so they walked each aisle once while I walked it twice. One day I saw Wayne Newton there with two bodyguards. He consented to give me his autograph and posed with the bodyguards by a Marmon touring car for me to take his photo. Many, many interesting cars but it was easy to see that Mr. Harrah's emphasis had been on numbers and not necessarily on restoration quality. Took lots of photos with a Nikon 201 SLR and a cheap flash. Went through lots of batteries. The quality of a lot of my photos is not great; neither was the lighting in the museum. Still I am glad I went and would do it again in a heart beat. One car that interested me was a 1942 Ford coupe. I thought it would maybe be something I could afford. However, all the cars brought premium prices, I'm sure because of the Harrah ownership. The '42 Ford in #3 condition sold for $9,000, a 1907 Ford Model K touring, 1-2 condition, brought $62,500, a 1910 Napier 7-passenger touring, #1 condition brought $275,000, and a 1936 Duesenberg SJN convertible coupe with a Murphy body, #1 condition, sold for $800.000.

[trimacar]

In the early 80's was on vacation at Lake Tahoe, and wife and I drove to Harrah's. What a place. I'll make this short, but will mention two things. I stood in the Model T that was set against a wall, for people to climg in and take pictures. I stood, and took a series of pictures that is a panaramic view of that one room, with Duesenbergs on the right, a Pierce with trailer in the middle. It now hangs in my den, framed along with an admission ticket. Would be interesting to have people identify the cars!

Second, I was working on a 1907 Franklin at the time. There was one on display, and a museum attendant saw me looking at it closely; when he found out what I was doing, he rolled the car out in the aisle so that I could crawl under and around it. Then, he asked if I needed parts. He told me to go to the front desk, and ask for a certain person. We were then shown an unmarked door, and walked into the parts room. First, by a lot of engines, many still in crates. Then, a chicken wire wall, with brass lights and horns hanging by the hundreds. Then, aisle after aisle of racks with parts. Harrah liked Franklins, and there were 3 rows of Franklin parts. Hubcaps? He had wooden drawers full of them. The caretaker told me to browse, and make a pile of parts. I did, and wound up with a pretty good pile on the floor, for the 1907. He came over, How much? Well, he said, a couple hundred, let's say $250 if I box it all up and ship it to you. I paid, and a week later the parts were shipped to my home in Louisiana.

What a memory! David Coco Winchester Va.

[Dandy Dave]

I got to shake Bill Harrahs hand once and I ain't washed it since. Was at Hershey in the early 80's. He was a down to earth guy. Dandy Dave!

[Terry Bond]

Glad Bob brought the Zimmerman collection up again. I recall going there as part of the annual pilgrimage to Hershey, and it was a wonderful collection indeed. As I recall, he had difficulty with the state of PA allowing signs for the museum and as a result, closed it down and moved to Fla (refresh my memory if not correct). I think the car museum part of it eventually became an antique mall but it still had the custom carpet there, including a big AACA emblem in the entry-way. As for the Harrah collection, never got to see it, but did encounter Bill at Hershey a couple of times.

Is this the kind of stuff we'll be talking about in the rocking chair on the front porch of the old folks home in a few years?

Terry

[jan arnett (2)]

When I was fifteen I found a Grant in a junk yard and it had a nice brass radiator on it. I pulled it and all the parts out expecting to build a hot rod. A buyer for Bill Harrah heard about it and flew in to pay me a visit. I gave twenty five dollars for the Grant and he paid me $500. They kept in touch with me and when I went to college they offered me a summer job in their research department. I worked my forty hours and then they let me work with the mechanics. I had more fun then you should be allowed to have. I met Bill on several occassions and he was always nice to me. Not many have this opportunity and I have been grateful for it. Have nice day.

[keiser31]

Jan...in 1970 I wrote the Harrah collection folks about working for them. Unfortunately, they would not hire a 17 year old.

[Ivan Saxton]

Two cars of the Zimmerman collection I know something about. The T-head Mercer Raceabout belongs to Dean Butler, and it is consistently raced in vintage car races in England, where I understand he lives most of the time. Apparently it beats Bentleys ten years or so more modern. In 1984 Randy Ema introduced me to Alan Clendenon in Anaheim, and he still had there a Lancia Alpha restoration project which he had sold to an airline pilot who he did not name. I took some photos, but unfortunately mostly of parts which I was lacking for my 1911 Lancia Delta, which is a derivative design not much heavier but substantially faster and more powerful. The little Alpha had been in the Zimmerman collection, but when the collection was sold as I understand, nobody wanted it much because it was painted pink and had been shortened. Alan got it and corrected the chassis alteration if I remember correctly what he told me, so it was a fairly straight project for the next owner. Now I suspect that this may have been the early Lancia from James Melton's collection, which was an Alpha bodied like a Mercer Raceabout; and it had a radiator badge wich was designed by one of Lancias friends for the 1911 and later cars. I am fairly sure this one had a badge on the radiator, but I did not know then that it did not originally have one. Undoubtedly James Melton was as much attraction to bring people to see his cars as were the cars themselves; and as fewer then may have been knowledgible of authenticity, if he got an interesting chassis it may have tempting to rebuild it in form and function as he preferred. Bob told us a while back this car had an A Ford crankshaft which is nowhere near a fit in the later cars.

[1937hd45]

Ivan, thank you for both of your posts, I forgot about the Zimmerman MERCER. Here is a photo of the Melton Lancia, I think there may have been two early ones in the aera in the late 1950's. The one I mentioned earlier with the Model A Ford crankshaft didn't have fenders. The bodywork on the Melton car doesn't look like factory work to me.