Mercedes 450SL good or bad ?

[Ray62]

I've been looking at listings on Hemmings, Craigslist, FB Marketplace, etc. for foreign convertibles (MG, Triumph, etc.) and I keep seeing listings for Mercedes 450SL's from the 70's at what I consider quite reasonable prices. Some are under 10 thousand and many more are listed if you look up into the mid to high teen thousands. Many, but not all, look quite nice for the money. I'm not very knowledgeable on Mercedes and I'm wondering if these cars are just underappreciated or is there are reason to avoid them. Thanks in advance for any insight those that are experienced with Mercedes can provide.  

[CChinn]

I have a ‘87 560 SL since 1994. Fantastic car, fun to drive and mechanically very sound. Parts can be pricey because it’s a MB. No major mechanical issues over the years in part due to keeping on top of regular maintenance and regularly driving it. Obviously it’s not a ‘70s 450 SL, but it is in the same line. I think all of the later SL models (450 and 560) are under appreciated 

[rocketraider]

Except for the fussy MB maintenance requirements and expense of parts and service, a properly maintained and serviced used Benz is going to be a good car.

 

Doesn't hurt to have competent service people nearby either.

 

I believe Mercedes-Benz is able to supply factory parts for about every car series they've ever made.

[CChinn]

You do not have to pay the exorbitant service maintenance fees at a MB dealer to maintain a MB. I have found experienced and capable independent European auto repair/maintenance shops at the many places I have lived over the years in CA, WA, VA and NC

[TTR]

I believe this would fall under same consideration as buying any old used car, i.e. “If you think you can’t afford (to buy and own) a nice, well kept and maintained ************* , you definitely can’t afford one that isn’t”, especially when it comes to higher end makes & models.

And even if an example what could be considered “very nice” is found, hiring a professional PPI by someone intimately familiar with the make & model will be money very well spent, regardless of outcome.
After all, 450 SL’s are now over 40 years old.
Look for the condition & maintenance records, especially everything electrical & mechanical related, not the price
If no comprehensive records exist, walk away.

[61polara]

On the plus side, MB has kept many parts for these cars and earlier ones in production.  Just pricy.

[mercer09]

great cars, cheap prices and many available. be sure to check for rust..............main culprit.

 

I was offered a lovely one a month ago- red, tan interior, very nice shape, really needing nothing 8k.

[CarNucopia]

These catch my attention when they pop up for sale, so I appreciate the question and the education. Did they ever make this generation of SL with a manual?

[CChinn]

1 minute ago, CarNucopia said:

These catch my attention when they pop up for sale, so I appreciate the question and the education. Did they ever make this generation of SL with a manual?

Not for the US market. They were available in  Germany. Maybe other European countries as well. 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

The 450 SL is part of the W107/R107 chassis.  While outwardly very similar, these are very different cars under the skin.  Roughpecking order: 

 

500 SL - grey market cars if you can find one, most powerful of the series.  Rare birds..

 

560 SL '86 - '89 more power than the 380 SL and many Mechanical upgrades while retaining the look designed in the late 60s.

 

350 - 450 SL - the earliest ones. Cast iron blocks that wear like iron. Later models had catalytic converters in a bad location.  Fuel injection on these cats can be troublesome 

 

280, 300 SL - 6 cylinder cars, including 4 speed versions. Great looking engines! 

 

380 Sl.  Watch earlier ones w single row timing chain.

 

Prices on these cars range wide from under $10k to $30k and more for a mint, low mile 560 SL.  You get what you pay for...

 

Not quite as much of a long term ownership as Colin but I have a 560 we love.  Great driving cars more GT though than sportscar.

Edited June 17 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

52 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

The 450 SL is part of the W107/R107 chassis.  While outwardly very similar, these are very different cars under the skin.  Roughpecking order: 

 

500 SL - grey market cars if you can find one, most powerful of the series.  Rare birds..

 

560 SL '86 - '89 more power than the 380 SL and many Mechanical upgrades while retaining the look designed in the late 60s.

 

350 - 450 SL - the earliest ones. Cast iron blocks that wear like iron. Later models had catalytic converters in a bad location.  Fuel injection on these cats can be troublesome 

 

280, 300 SL - 6 cylinder cars, including 4 speed versions. Great looking engines! 

 

380 Sl.  Watch earlier ones w single row timing chain.

 

Prices on these cars range wide from under $10k to $30k and more for a mint, low mile 560 SL.  You get what you pay for...

 

Not quite as much of a long term ownership as Colin but I have a 560 we love.  Great driving cars more GT though than sportscar.

Your opinion Steve, 350-450, but earlier and what years? 280-300SL are ok. Any idea chain and guides replacement mileage?

Thanks in advance. 

[CarNucopia]

1 hour ago, CChinn said:

Not for the US market. They were available in  Germany. Maybe other European countries as well. 

Hmmmm….I do have some friends in Germany….. Time to head down the rabbit hole.

[Angelfish]

1 hour ago, Pfeil said:

Your opinion Steve, 350-450, but earlier and what years? 280-300SL are ok. Any idea chain and guides replacement mileage?

Thanks in advance. 

Timing chain is generally considered a 100,000 mile item and the guides are replaced at the same time.   There is a process to check for chain tension, if it’s within spec you can run it longer.  
 

The guides are ivory colored when new and gradually turn dark brown.   Once they look like burnt toast you’d better get them replaced.   Not a terrible job but fiddly.  

[Angelfish]

10 hours ago, Ray62 said:

I've been looking at listings on Hemmings, Craigslist, FB Marketplace, etc. for foreign convertibles (MG, Triumph, etc.) and I keep seeing listings for Mercedes 450SL's from the 70's at what I consider quite reasonable prices. Some are under 10 thousand and many more are listed if you look up into the mid to high teen thousands. Many, but not all, look quite nice for the money. I'm not very knowledgeable on Mercedes and I'm wondering if these cars are just underappreciated or is there are reason to avoid them. Thanks in advance for any insight those that are experienced with Mercedes can provide.  

The Mercedes SL series are fantastic cars.   The maintenance won’t be any worse than the others you mention, but there will be maintenance so just plan on it.  
 

These cars are cruisers or GT cars.   90 mph all day long and ready for more tomorrow.   Great around town and fit into parking spaces.   If that’s what you want you won’t be disappointed.  If you want a Triumph or MG, get a Triumph or MG, the SLs are not the same thing.   
 

If looking at a 450, the 1975 had a one year only problem with the catalytic converters that caused overheating.   Not fatal but something to consider.  1971-1975 require a valve adjust every 10-12,000 miles, later cars do not.

Up to 1975 used D jet fuel injection, after that came K & KE jet.  K/E jet parts are cheaper and maybe a little easier to work on.

 

The 380 is considered a little underpowered and usually cheaper, still really nice cars but always check that the timing chain has been replaced with a dual row or that the car is priced accordingly.

 

560s do have some improvements in the suspension and other a few other things.

 

Timing chain is important regardless of which one you get.   A failed chain results in bent valves and alcohol abuse.
 

The climate control and AC seldom work right in any of them but it’s known problems with known solutions.

 

1982 380SL and most of a 1977 450SLC.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

@Pfeil a lot of folks look for a 72 or 73 just because they are the earliest.  I think, in 76 or 77 the 450 SL got the cats located in a tough spot. 

 

The exception to Fish's note on 100k timing chain is the single row 380 SL to 1982 or 83 - 30k is the recommended replacement interval.

 

Subframe failure Is also an issue MB didn't fix till the 560 in 86.  As of 2011 when we got our 560, MB was still doing replacement subframes on 380 SLs.  

 

I like the hubcap and thin ww tires on the earlier cars along with some colors from that period.  

 

Lots of support, parts etc. Available for these cars.  

[Steve_Mack_CT]

10 minutes ago, Angelfish said:

The climate control and AC seldom work right in any of them but it’s known problems with known solutions.

 

1982 380SL and most of a 1977 450SLC.

Nice cars!  

 

Ha before and after AC service.  All you need to do is find a 100 lb wiry kid who knows his AC sh** and write a big check and you too can get cold air blasting  with the top down.  Well cool air anyway... It is cool how the run ducts into door panels and the AC comes out in the door panel perforation.

 

But 110% on the MG/TR comparison.  Different worlds.  As much as I loved my TR-6 this is the car to have for long range cruising.

 

[Pfeil]

13 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Nice cars!  

 

Ha before and after AC service.  All you need to do is find a 100 lb wiry kid who knows his AC sh** and write a big check and you too can get cold air blasting  with the top down.  Well cool air anyway... It is cool how the run ducts into door panels and the AC comes out in the door panel perforation.

 

But 110% on the MG/TR comparison.  Different worlds.  As much as I loved my TR-6 this is the car to have for long range cruising.

 

The image to some might be scary however, you'll find the same picture going on in any of today's cars economy, medium to expensive all the same and doesn't differentiate between brands or country of origin. You want to replace an evaporator or heater core in a G.M. "B" or "C" body of early 60's? you'll not only do that, but the rt. front fender comes off too. 

Thanks for the comments for me Steve. If you were to pick just one of those MB (year and model) above which one would it be? Power and V-8 doesn't matter, 280's seen to go plenty and are smooth. 

  

[West Peterson]

On 6/16/2024 at 1:33 PM, Ray62 said:

I've been looking at listings on Hemmings, Craigslist, FB Marketplace, etc. for foreign convertibles (MG, Triumph, etc.) and I keep seeing listings for Mercedes 450SL's from the 70's at what I consider quite reasonable prices. Some are under 10 thousand and many more are listed if you look up into the mid to high teen thousands. Many, but not all, look quite nice for the money. I'm not very knowledgeable on Mercedes and I'm wondering if these cars are just underappreciated or is there are reason to avoid them. Thanks in advance for any insight those that are experienced with Mercedes can provide.  

 

I think it's mostly an indication of just how many were built, over a terribly long production run.

[1935Packard]

I loved these cars when they were new, and I still really like them.  If they came in a manual I would own one, and they're still on my list as a "someday when I have the space" car....

[Steve_Mack_CT]

@Pfeil, and @1935Packard, the 280 , 300 SL DOHC 6, 4 speed variants are pretty cool.  A HS pal now semi-retired and in FL has one.  I want to drive it at some point.  Ironic he has the 6, variant - back in HS days we nicknamed him "valvecover" due to his owning a 6 cylinder 69 Nova.  😉😁

[Littlestown Mike]

Deferred maintenance will get the unsuspecting buyer.  

While many have leather interiors. the MB Tex interior might be the best vinyl ever used in cars.  Many people assume the interior is leather when it actually MB Tex. The condition of the interiors is often stunning to novice MB fans and that causes them to overlook other details.

One popular saying among Mercedes people--and full of truth is" There is nothing as expensive as a cheap Mercedes."

[Steve_Mack_CT]

The MB Tex is amazing!  Sadly not available in the 560 SL. I think in some years both options were available.  

 

In the past few years a few good books have been written on this series; they are all decent Taylor's is pretty popular. 

 

 

Edited June 18 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[Robert G. Smits]

I have owned two 380 SLC's for over 30 years.  One of the greatest road cars i have ever driven.  They do require a lot of maintenance most of which you can do yourself if so inclined.  Great online support groups.  I would disagree with others on the MB parts support.  The bean counters have taken control and the MB parts supply is being exhausted for the older versions.  As an example MB can no longer supply replacement pistons or rods for the 380.  My long time "indie" will no longer accept new 107 customers because of the parts issue.   My bottom line recommendation would be to buy the latest version of the SL.  You will enjoy it.

[Paul Dobbin]

While in the USAF, I was stationed in St. Louis, MO when the 280 SL was introduced @ $5800.

I famously said "who would ever pay that much for a new car"?.    Two years later while stationed

in Germany I owned a Mercedes 170 Va and a Porsche Speedster and admired the girls in the

280 SL while being a flag man on the Finthen Army Airfield Raceway.   They sure were pretty!

and the car looked good too.

[Ray62]

Thank you to everyone that has responded to my original post. As usual, this forum is full of knowledgeable people no matter the age, or brand, or model of vehicle in question, and they're always willing to share that knowledge. I learned a lot, and in addition to a page full of notes now I need to pick up a couple of the books that Steve posted about above.

 

Again, Thanks to all !!!

[CChinn]

There’s a lot of good info in those books. Good luck with your search. Let us know if you find something you like and purchase. Photos are always welcome here. Having said that, here’s mine

[Robert G. Smits]

If I were in the market for a MB I would sign into BaT and set up a search function for whatever model I was looking for. You will receive a email whenever one is listed. It can be very educational as there are many knowledgeable people commenting along with a few screwballs  BaT also screens entries so you avoid most of the crap.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

@Ray62 hope you pursue an SL after you complete your research. 

 

After a two year hiatus the hardtop was removed last Sunday and we took a nice backroads drive to breakfast a couple towns over this morning.  A reminder of just what great road cars these R107 chassis cars are - and a few items on the to do list.  Pretty much like most old cars but the time behind the wheel makes it well worthwhile.  Collected a couple compliments as well. 😊

[Oz Dodge 4]

A friend of mine owns one and it "mostly" has been a lovely car, but recently it dropped a valve, and he is talking about replacing it without fixing the problem because of the expense of repairing it. He is a good maintainer of cars but not a hands on fixer, and I suspect the "expert" he has been using has cut a few corners. They can be and are a very nice ride, and as long as your luck holds, or as long as you are "VERY" careful with the maintenance one would be a great acquisition !

[hook]

Never ever replace a single row timing chain in a 380 with a single row timing chain. That's tempting disaster. 380 heads are getting scarce. Re-fit it with a double chain, sprockets and idlers or junk it, because that's where it will end up.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

What Hook said.  I will say that clean 380 SL can be a great buy.  Almost bought one when we bought the 560.  Might be irrelevant now as it was a long time ago 2011 -  but prices still kind of stacked up the same. CA car with pro repaint in the same color (blue) and a new soft top.  Both tops.  Around 100k miles I think it was $6k.  It had been sitting but did run and it belonged to a family we knew.  Try getting anything professionally painted for 6 grand.  I did think it would have been a good light project for the right person.

[Ed Luddy]

On 6/17/2024 at 12:58 AM, Steve_Mack_CT said:

@Pfeil a lot of folks look for a 72 or 73 just because they are the earliest.  I think, in 76 or 77 the 450 SL got the cats located in a tough spot. 

 

The exception to Fish's note on 100k timing chain is the single row 380 SL to 1982 or 83 - 30k is the recommended replacement interval.

 

Subframe failure Is also an issue MB didn't fix till the 560 in 86.  As of 2011 when we got our 560, MB was still doing replacement subframes on 380 SLs.  

 

I like the hubcap and thin ww tires on the earlier cars along with some colors from that period.  

 

Lots of support, parts etc. Available for these cars.  

Subframe is an important area to check on a hoist before you buy! I found out the hard way on the 2nd one I bought.

 My preference is the 86-89 560 SL's. Just a better car overall in my opinion.

[B Jake Moran]

On 6/16/2024 at 11:58 PM, Steve_Mack_CT said:

@Pfeil a lot of folks look for a 72 or 73 just because they are the earliest.  I think, in 76 or 77 the 450 SL got the cats located in a tough spot. 

 

The exception to Fish's note on 100k timing chain is the single row 380 SL to 1982 or 83 - 30k is the recommended replacement interval.

 

Subframe failure Is also an issue MB didn't fix till the 560 in 86.  As of 2011 when we got our 560, MB was still doing replacement subframes on 380 SLs.  

 

I like the hubcap and thin ww tires on the earlier cars along with some colors from that period.  

 

Lots of support, parts etc. Available for these cars.  

Disagree somewhat on why some collect the early cars. Most in my opinion collect them for the pre 5 mph bumpers which are superior looking over the 450SL from 1974 on.  Find an early car and compare.  Of course the 560 had the same bumpers but added an attractive spoiler underneath to mitigate that bad looking bumper in front at least.   

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Actually Jake I missed that point.  Love my car but have thought seriously about 3 mods - nardi wheel, the bumper conversion and shaving the "turd" brake light off the trunk. 🤔

 

 

[B Jake Moran]

I’ve owned 2 350SLs and loved them. I’ve tried to get a 560SL but passed. To the original poster, I know of a green early bumper car owned by a 94 year old man in Missouri for reasonable money.  I’ve spoken to him and it was a pleasure.  In the $12,000 range.  

[PhillyFordGuy]

We love our '72, badged as a 350 SL but has the 4.5L V8. 116K miles and still going strong.

[DavidinCA]

I’ve had a couple and, in my opinion, a 560 is the best and most modern feeling to drive of the group.  Plenty of power 4-speed automatic, abs, airbags, etc.  On the other hand, I prefer the 450 since they are a bit more quirky, some have very period colors, and feel like a somewhat older car.  Conversely, they have the 3-speed auto vs. the 4, no abs or airbag, adequate, if not great a/c, and as others mentioned, the years with the cats under the hood often run hot.  I think the early, small bumper ones look the best.  To me, the 380 is the least interesting, but often the least expensive.  They are also often in early 80s colors that I don’t particularly like.  

 

I’ve found parts reasonably easy to find, but often expensive and many of them need some deferred maintenance.  I’ve found that once sorted, they are excellent cars.  

 

In the northeast, many were bought new as second or third cars, kept for many years and have pretty low mileage. In CA, I found a lot of high mileage, very tired cars.  Overall, survival is pretty high, perhaps because they were expensive when new, looked current for years, and weren’t peoples everyday car.  If you take your time, you should be able to find the model you want, in the colors you want, with reasonable mileage.  A project will cost a  fortune to restore.

 

My only real issue with them, is that they’re not particularly roomy if you’re tall.  

[Ed Luddy]

A friend of mine has just put his 1988 560 SL for sale. It's in excellent condition, never winter driven, 2 tops, etc. I'm tempted..., but just don't have room to keep it.

[Angelfish]

2 hours ago, DavidinCA said:

…

My only real issue with them, is that they’re not particularly roomy if you’re tall.  

I had overlooked this point.   I’m the runt of the family so at 5’8” it fits me very nicely, but once you hit 6’ it starts to look like a clown car.