lump Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Last fall I posted some photos of some radiator emblems and hood ornaments that I had bought from an estate. Later I visited the antique dealer (who had inherited those items from an uncle), to see about buying a few more. While I was there he showed me a nice old lighted "PACKARD SERVICE" sign. He asked $500 for it, and while I liked it very much, I was forced to spend my limited funds on the rest of his entire collection of badges and ornaments. Now this spring he will be coming to a local non-automotive antique show near me, and could presumably bring this sign to me. Could someone kindly offer me some value guidance here? I am fully aware that any collectible antique is worth only exactly what any particular buyer would pay. But I'm trying not to overpay for such things these days, in view of the realization that one day I'll need to resell this fascinating stuff (or my family will). Can anyone advise whether his price is reasonable for this old lighted sign, please? (I've never bought a lighted antique car dealership sign before). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I know nothing about signs. And you didn’t say how big it was? However, Packard stuff is still very popular. And I would imagine that’s worth $500 all day long. Even as a reproduction. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I don't think the price is way out of line given the condition. The roughness of the paint on the glass certainly hurts it's value. I feel certain that one in better condition would bring $700-$800 or more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Keep in mind that it's a postwar sign. I think it's poor condition will definitely reflect on its value. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted April 24 Author Share Posted April 24 Thanks everyone, so far. The size can be seen by comparing it against the old tennis rackets hanging behind it. I would guess that it is ABOUT 40" long. Don't know if its backside is a lighted sign also or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert G. Smits Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Is the face plastic or glass. Is the can metal or plastic. Close up appears to show deterioration which you can expect to continue. On the other hand $500 doesn’t purchase much in the advertising world today. Point out the flaws and present a low ball offer and work from there. From your initial post he has had this available for over a year and not sold it and I doubt he has been holding it just for you. I would probably try to buy it but loosing $500 doesn’t bother me much if I like it as it is offset by gains on purchases from the 70’s and 80’s. If you are a AACA member someone in your club is probably a memorabilia collector. Tell the dealer you are very interested but would love me to show it to an expert before you buy. Let us know what you decide and thanks for posting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I had a sign very much like this one advertising Champion Spark Plugs. The can is metal with a textured paint. Glass advertising glass, one sided. It was in excellent condition. Wish I hadn't sold it. Probably worth double by now. This kind of stuff has been a lot like '32 Fords. You never pay too much, sometimes you just buy too early. The market always seems to catch up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I can only say repro or original if I had that opportunity lump I would have ass burn from pulling out my wallet for $500.. Why - if one looks?at it as a decoration only vs. a collectible it would add a lot IMHO for what some nice framed prints cost. Plus not so big it's a pain to find room for but big enough to say notice me. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 You'd have to really love Packard stuff. Condition is everything and the lettering and other areas are in rough shape. Buy what you like but for me, it would be a pass. Terry 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I would have to agree with both Terry and Steve. I know Steve has a Packard and a sign like this cleaned up and detailed a bit would make a great addition to his garage! IF I had a vintage Packard I probably would spend the money. After all, when was the last time you saw one for sale. On the other hand, I DO NOT have a Packard and like Terry said, it IS rough, and $500 is a lot for a cool piece of man cave art that I have little connection to. Personally I would pass on it. Now, if it was a Pontiac sign.............................. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 For me condition is everything. Sometimes flawed condition tells a story and is a plus. Some times flawed condition just means it,s in poor condition.......bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flackmaster Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Its all about the condition of the painted glass. Once the paint starts deteriorating (from the backside), it becomes all about condition and what you want to pay. Unlikely you want to pay the impo$$ible cost to repaint. Clearly the original paint is flaking, so is it worth $500 to you? If you don't wind up buying it, I'd be a player - please advise so I can be a back-up buyer if you don't make a deal. Thank you, David Flack, 2l4-549-125O 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 (edited) Can't really tell from the photo? It looks to me like someone may have done a really bad attempt at repainting it? If so, they probably should have left it as was. Such a look actually make me wonder if it was originally a Packard sign or not. The glass of course could be replaced, and painted by someone with the skills to make it look right, for any marque someone may want. That size, the sign likely identified the way (inside or outside a building) to the lubrication bay at the service center. The style could be either late 1930s or up to early 1950s art deco. Too modern to get me excited, however advertising collectors tend to go nuts over that stuff! Current state of the economy and collecting makes uncertainty an issue, however a couple years ago I would have said $500 was cheap IF (that big "IF" again) it can be determined to be an original Packard piece. By the way, those tennis rackets are also interesting. I have a few of them from the 1920s and even a couple from maybe as early as 1900 (1890s's patent dates and a style that was out of favor by 1920). I used to take them to the "Gatsby Picnic" for our vintage picnic display. Edited April 24 by wayne sheldon (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 For a point of reference see this sign. The ask is 1850. https://www.ebay.com/itm/296383620871 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 58 minutes ago, flackmaster said: Its all about the condition of the painted glass. Once the paint starts deteriorating (from the backside), it becomes all about condition and what you want to pay. Unlikely you want to pay the impo$$ible cost to repaint. Clearly the original paint is flaking, so is it worth $500 to you? If you don't wind up buying it, I'd be a player - please advise so I can be a back-up buyer if you don't make a deal. Thank you, David Flack, 2l4-549-125O There are people that reproduce pin ball machine back glasses. Far more detailed and usually at least 5 colors. That glass would be duck soup to repro,........bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Although I don’t consider myself a sign expert, I have several, lighted, neon, and porcelain signs. I have a very Close friend who lives across the street from me who is deep into the stuff. I feel like I’ve learned a lot about price and value from hanging around with him. It looks like someone tried to touch up with paint the glass portion. That’s a shame because it probably would’ve been more valuable left alone even if it was flaking off. However, the Can alone makes it an easy buy at $500. The can is legitimate. There’s almost nothing at that price point that isn’t reproduction stuff. I have an antique dealer friend that I’ve purchased several Automobile related things from over the years including signs. He knows I’ve been looking for a neon statement piece and called me about 16 weeks ago. Big, legitimate, bullnose with artwork, It’s been sitting outside. Rust, flaking paint, all the neon broken. Very cool but it had no connection to me. It wasn’t auto related, it wasn’t from my hometown, it was actually for a chicken hatchery family business. As rough as it was, he offered it to me at $2500..... but because I had no connection to the piece I took a pass. He gave me the first shot at it before he told anyone else about it. He took it to an auction two weeks later and sold it just like it was for 9,500. lighted and neon signs are ridiculous. I would encourage you to buy it, even if it was to sell it to one of the Packard guys on here and put a little bit of money in your pocket. As expensive as these great signs are, there’s a lot to love about them. After the initial pain of writing a big check, you hang it and enjoy it. You don’t have to insure it, license and register it, replace batteries, rebuild generators and starters, chrome, paint, re-core radiators....... their simplicity pays dividends on into the future after the purchase. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 The seller's presentation is so poor you couldn't help but do a better job and make money with it. Some call that flipping but I like to think of it as a demographic shift. Also, be advised, that war sometimes used as a modern time marker was about 80 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 1 hour ago, John Bloom said: As expensive as these great signs are, there’s a lot to love about them. After the initial pain of writing a big check, you hang it and enjoy it. You don’t have to insure it, license and register it, replace batteries, rebuild generators and starters, chrome, paint, re-core radiators....... their simplicity pays dividends on into the future after the purchase. John just making sure it was you and not my dad making this post! 😊 Not sure how many times I have heard that over the years signs, pumps, smalls... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 I've enlarged the photo and agree it seems as if someone has tried to repaint or touch up around the lettering. Even the Packard has some issues. To me the blue color is off too. I'm beginning to wonder...is it genuine? I'd recommend opening it up and looking at the back of the glass before buying. Orinals were not painted by hand. Visible paintbrush marks would tell the truth about its authenticity. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 So, I have similar piece, apparently made by the same manufacturer. Notice the glass, it is not smooth. I have one original and one that I had restored by a member in Ohio who specializes in signs, clocks, etc. It was not cheap but thankfully I don't care as I have owned it for years and enjoy it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 23 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said: It was not cheap but thankfully I don't care as I have owned it for years and enjoy it. This can be said for a number of objects - just to find the right person who has the knowledge how to restore something - be it a part, a sign, clock, lamp etc and do it correctly and authentically can be an issue. There are a lot of self proclaimed experts out there . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 16 hours ago, flackmaster said: Its all about the condition of the painted glass. Once the paint starts deteriorating (from the backside), it becomes all about condition and what you want to pay. Unlikely you want to pay the impo$$ible cost to repaint. Clearly the original paint is flaking, so is it worth $500 to you? If you don't wind up buying it, I'd be a player - please advise so I can be a back-up buyer if you don't make a deal. Thank you, David Flack, 2l4-549-125O Ahh a reminder I best hold my money. Talking to a guy from TX about shiny Packard door handles and things like wiper towers and related. I owe him something for a carburetor heat shield as well... 🤔😊👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 16 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said: Ahh a reminder I best hold my money. Talking to a guy from TX about shiny Packard door handles and things like wiper towers and related. I owe him something for a carburetor heat shield as well... 🤔😊👍 A worthy reason to hold your fire on memorabilia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 1 hour ago, Walt G said: This can be said for a number of objects - just to find the right person who has the knowledge how to restore something - be it a part, a sign, clock, lamp etc and do it correctly and authentically can be an issue. There are a lot of self proclaimed experts out there . If I can't live with something in its exiting condition or restore it myself the promise that someone will make it nice for me from my life's experience is a real long shot: 1. They will disassemble it and never complete it. 2. It will come back looking worse than it left. 3. Any critique of poor workmanship will be treated as a personal assault and your ignorance will be pointed out. "I am a restorer, not an artist" is one I will always remember. 4. The old craftsman will keep it until he suffers from dementia and claim it was his all along. 5. The heirs will not recognize you own it. 6. Five years later you will come to take the parts home unfinished. And he will glare at you and say "I don't know what you are so antsy about." I'm laughing now thinking about how this list could go on and on. And these are all memories from before I was 25 years old. There are another 50 to go! My only saving grace is that "I do the same thing less frequently and expect a different outcome". It's a start. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 In 11 hours ago, 60FlatTop said: My only saving grace is that "I do the same thing less frequently and expect a different outcome". It's a start. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". Einstein. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 "Less frequently" has a bit of an edge on "over and over". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted April 29 Author Share Posted April 29 Ok, I've got egg on my face...again. I called the seller again, and he said I must have misunderstood. The price is $2,500. He said he has never seen one sell for less than that on eBay, etc. At least I can quit thinking and worrying about this one. LOL. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 1 hour ago, lump said: Ok, I've got egg on my face...again. I called the seller again, and he said I must have misunderstood. The price is $2,500. He said he has never seen one sell for less than that on eBay, etc. At least I can quit thinking and worrying about this one. LOL. That makes more sense to me. The cheap price and the fact it was an antique dealer selling it did not jive. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 6 hours ago, lump said: Ok, I've got egg on my face...again. I called the seller again, and he said I must have misunderstood. The price is $2,500. He said he has never seen one sell for less than that on eBay, etc. At least I can quit thinking and worrying about this one. LOL. All isn't lost.......Now you are more informed and when you see a good deal on a cool sign, you'll be quick to grab it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Signage isn't a cheap hobby anymore. When GM closed the Doraville GA Assembly Plant, our own MrEarl got the lighted signage that was on the building. After a few years he decided to sell the sign to finance completion of his Buick Sales and Service Garage. Here's the story: One of my big regrets in life is not buying it. It would have fit perfectly on the long wall of my garage. Imagine this lit up at night out here in the middle of nowhere!😃😎 But, the letters found a great new home and a part of GM and American automobile history survive. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flackmaster Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 2500? No way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 On 4/30/2024 at 10:27 PM, flackmaster said: 2500? No way. Yup. That's a lotta moola for a postwar sign in not very good condition. I thought $500 was too much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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