Dealership Emblem - Brooklyn NY

[Walt G]

Most of the dealership emblems  I have seen are cast script made of zinc. The newer post war notice of who sold the car new are adhesive vynil

this one has to be pre WWII era and is  2 x 2 1/2 inches with enamel in three colors. Made very much like the badges/emblems that were attached to the center of the top of a radiator shell in the 1930s and earlier era.  Has anyone seen or have other dealership badges like this that can share for us to see? There is no indication on the reverse as to how it was attached - no studs of screw thread. I know that some decals to note the dealership were used as early as 1931 as a friend has one on his 1931 Plymouth sedan that was sold by a local dealer here in the town I reside in. Comments most welcome as to the history of these . Who made them?

 

 

[wayne sheldon]

Really neat!

[3macboys]

Fantastic timing Walt - I just picked up a few of these one that are NOS.  The dealership opened in 1951 and the logo would fit with that timeline.  They did have me wondering when dealers started attaching these type of emblems to cars and you have answered that with at least by 1931.  I know Earl C Anthony had a personalized plate attached to Packards in California, however, those were not public facing such as yours.    In this case it is obvious the one that I have was attached by screws or rivets.  The example that you have shown has me puzzled.

 

[Billy Kingsley]

That style of enameling dates back to ancient times, and is still made today. The Chevrolet logo looks older...what time periods had the bars above and below the name? 

 

Is it possible the badge was adhesive and the adhesive backing has been removed so it doesn't stick to everything? I know current cars nameplates are just held on with adhesive, but I don't know when that started. 

 

Is it possible it was never attached to a car and instead used as, say, a paperweight on the salesman's desk? There are many variables that I simply don't have the knowledge to piece together or rule out.

[TAKerry]

Cool parts and kudos to both of you (you too Billy, LOL). Nothing intelligent to add, but I remember Pop having a fit when they were attached to his new cars. I would love to have one for my cars, one I havent looked for yet, the other the dealer seems to have disappeared from the face of the earth without a trace, perhaps aliens were involved? I have a friend that had one 3d printed for his car. There is an AMX that I see at local shows that still has the dealer tag from my town. The owner bought the car new. Its a cool piece of history as my little town of about 1200 people had an AMC dealer, a Dodge dealer and a Ford dealer all at one time!

[Tom99]

I picked up this enameled dealer emblem in Florida during the early 1970's.

 

[3macboys]

6 hours ago, Billy Kingsley said:

The Chevrolet logo looks older...what time periods had the bars above and below the name?

 

If found this chart online https://blog.logomyway.com/chevy-logo/   Which we all know that just because it's on the internet does not make it true.  I did not realize how long they used that style of logo.

 

 

[3macboys]

7 hours ago, Billy Kingsley said:

Is it possible it was never attached to a car and instead used as, say, a paperweight on the salesman's desk? There are many variables that I simply don't have the knowledge to piece together or rule out.

I think that you are onto something there.  The more I look at both those enameled emblems, the size of the script for the dealer name is too small to see if it was fastened to a vehicle, you would have to be very close to be able to see it.  With a casual glance walking by on the curb you would be hard pressed to take it in.  I've been saying of late that we are one generation removed from having the first hand knowledge of so much of this stuff.

[Walt G]

Great that this brought into discussion as to the actual use! Wonderful, makes us think and as stated above by 3macboys puts into perspective a period in time that things were different then we are used to. Great history lesson.

The one I showed, as mention, had no way of mounting it - no holes, no studs etc. so could indeed have been a paper weight it is brass but if a paperweight wasn't used for to many papers!!!!  And odd because there is absolutely no trace of any company name on the back that would have manufactured it.

I have lots of odd stuff here ( I know some friends are thinking - sure you do because you are odd...... 🙄)

Thanks guys, any other thoughts? Let's have them.

Walt

[58L-Y8]

I'd opine it was a paper weight developed by the dealership not only for their own use but also to be given to loyal customers as a token of appreciation for their business.  Beyond individual private sales, multiple paper weights given to the business owners who bought fleets of Chevrolet vehicles. Recall the office workers in the pre-A/C days had only fans to keep the work environment bearable in summertime.  

[philip roitman]

I grew up in Flatbush Brooklyn. Never heard of that dealership. Very cool to see the emblem. Thank you.

 

[RetroPetro]

Definitely pre war. For a car, not a desk piece.

[Walt G]

This is great, I just love it when the story comes together with the help of others. Made my week .

thanks gentlemen

Walt

 

PS OK Now does anyone have a sales brochure in their collection that is stamped with that dealers name on it??

[RetroPetro]

[Larry Schramm]

Better?

[TAKerry]

I see some of these old buildings still in use today with a business usually at the opposite end of the spectrum. I wonder if the people in them now knew about the history and what they originally were? 

[69merc]

I would conjecture based on the extremely fine quality and beauty of the piece that it may have been an award or part of an award to this particular dealership.

[Billy Kingsley]

Looking again at the damage under the KL in Brooklyn, I wonder if there was a pin or attachment soldered on there that has since been removed. 

I've seen similar damage on coins that had once been turned into jewelry. 

[tom_in_nh]

Hi Walt,

Great piece you have there.

How about a snapshot of the backside to satisfy the curious?

Thanks, 

Tom

[Walt G]

Ok, here is the back the circles are very slight impressions probably to center the piece?  Brass metal it is made of is about 1/16 inch thick.

It was never attached to anything- no residue of any adhesive, solder, etc. Was chrome plated after the 3 enamel colors were in place.

Due to the brass it is made of it weighs about as much as a similar size radiator shell emblem would ( about the same weight of of a silver dollar?) .

This dealership went to a great effort to have this made - makes me wonder if there was a specialty company that produced these and perhaps

some were made for other makes of cars/dealerships.

[69merc]

The US producers of these emblems were Fox of Cincinnati or Indianapolis, and Auld in Columbus.  Right now there is no hint of studs, but those two impressions would certainly have been the location of them.  It would not be difficult to erase all trace of studs.  Desolder them, and a little bit of glass beading would do it.  In any event, the chrome plater would have needed something to hold the piece while plating it.  Because of the flat smooth back, the front side design would have been acid etched which would be the best method for very small quantity.  The design itself is very reminiscent to me of the Durant badge from this era.

[58L-Y8]

Image is very fuzzy, but the newest Chevrolet appears to be a 1940.

[Walt G]

35 minutes ago, 69merc said:

It would not be difficult to erase all trace of studs.  Desolder them, and a little bit of glass beading would do it.

This is an original piece, not restored or reworked. What you see is how it was from new. Both Fox and D.L. Auld had their name and location stamped into the rear of the emblems they produced.

[RetroPetro]

There is another one extant, unknown on what back looks like.

 

Edited April 6 by RetroPetro (see edit history)

[Fargoguy]

This was the earliest form of dealer emblem I have seen- was on a model T dash up

here in Saskatchewan 

[Billy Kingsley]

Seeing the back makes me think this was "new old stock" and never actually used for what it was created for. 

[32tatra]

Some history on this dealership, it was first called Bedford Chevrolet and located at Bedford Ave and Saint Marks Place Brooklyn, NY.  In 1939 the dealership moved to 2625 Bedford Ave which is right off Flatbush Ave and at that time they  changed the name to Flatbush Chevrolet (the building before this had been a Dodge Plymouth dealer).  In the early 1980's the dealership was sold and changed its name to "Black Chevrolet", a year and half later they went out of business.

[58L-Y8]

A bit sharper, though the original image isn't very dense:

[TheMoneyPit]

Here’s two more for consideration, the Lasky was a Ford dealership in Brooklyn and although there is an online reference to a 1916 car manufacturer there’s no evidence that they produced one. The other is a Queens Village Pontiac dealership. Both are quality made enameled badges similar to Walt’s. Being from the same area I wonder if competition for sales made the dealership advertise with more flashy badges??

[RetroPetro]

I had a T radiator shell with the Lasky emblem affixed to it. No screws or studs either.

[TheMoneyPit]

1 hour ago, RetroPetro said:

I had a T radiator shell with the Lasky emblem affixed to it. No screws or studs either.

If you sold that shell to Don Lang this is that exact badge. I had to remove gobs of solder from it but it has two #10 threaded studs on the back. The Pontiac has a very small diameter stud around #6 (never measured it). Both are roughly 2-1/2 inches in size.

[Walt G]

It continues to "make my day" to read and see what is here. It puts into perspective a whole another part of what it was like to promote sales of new cars "then". Mush is never spoken or cared about. I love all car stuff especially pre 1950 and especially if it has a local area connection to me. Queens Village is only a couple of miles away. Keep it coming everyone, share your treasures. Thanks to all of you who can.

Walt

[3macboys]

Walt, this topic continues to make me think, and yes it does occasionally hurt!  At what point did the car companies start to put their name on the back of the car?   I'm thinking it was around 1935 or so.  Now when you start thinking of that, the only outside brand name on most cars up to that point was the relatively small radiator emblem on the front of the car for the first 30 years or so of serious production - talk about a missed marketing opportunity!  The practical implication is that it would really only be when cars were parked that they could be identified.   A pedestrian could identify a car, but a driver could not, which gives credence to the stories of people chasing down a car to find out what it was.   Now moving onto these dealer emblems, it appears that dealers were embracing the marketing of their brand in this way perhaps before the larger company was.  

 

Don

[Walt G]

Don

I agree that the dealers were more aggressive in wanting to reach the local potential car buyers. Tire covers with the car brand name and even sometimes the local dealers name and location were on cloth/canvas tire covers in the 1920s.  As I mentioned a actual dealer recognition of who sold the car was applied at least as early as 1931 as a local Chrysler - Plymouth dealer had decals made and affixed them to the right rear corner of the lower belt molding ( at the bottom edge off the body) on a sedan.

this a whole part of the context in car sales that is never thought about or mentioned in articles. I ( as it is apparent) like to know the whole story. What car companies locally also had their name and address printed on the sales literature that were provided by the car manufacturer ? 

As mentioned here someplace I am also very involved in local history as an appointed historian for the village I resided in my family has resided in since 1924.  NY  State law says if you are in incorporated village you have to appoint a village historian - it has been this way since before 1920. So besides loving the vehicles I am also interested in what business was around in the decades previously .

Walt

[36 D2 Coupe]

Interesting topic. There was a water-slip decal on the steering column of a '34 DeSoto Airflow I once owned indicating it was sold by a dealer in Pawtucket RI. I don't recall the name of the dealer but it did help to tell a story of its early life. First known-to-me  owner was an Airflow collector from RI in 1970 - by that time it was in poor shape. 

[wayne sheldon]

Before most of the timeframe of this discussion? In the late 1910s, and throughout the 1920s, it was common for some automobile dealers to affix small brass plates to the interior of cars they sold. They were usually nicely made (by modern standards), and about one inch tall by three to four inches wide. Similar in style to engine or serial number tags, they would show the dealership's name and cars they represented, and maybe the dealership's address or just the city and/or state they were in. A few dealers even put serial numbers on such plates to track (or brag about?) their sales.

 

Ford dealers did this a lot through the model T era, and still to a lesser extent during the Model A years. I have personally seen a dozen or more from Chevrolet dealers also. Other marques to a lesser extent, however I recall seeing ones for Buick, Reo, Cadillac, and Studebaker a few times.

 

The MTFCA forum used to discuss these fairly often. I have personally seen probably at least fifty of the things myself, however, I have only had a couple, and they went on cars when I sold them.

 

Jay-In Northern California, is a well known collector of model T Ford accessories, and a good friend. A quick google search found a thread he posted about ten years ago. I highly recommend you check in on it if you are interested. A small portion of his dash plaques, as well as a few from other forum members are pictured there. However, be forewarned, due to the age of that forum thread, it is not currently considered "secure". It should be fine, I personally search through their archives often, and have not had any issues from it.

 

The link;

 

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/457626.html?1420073941

[Gunsmoke]

Enjoying this discussion, interesting badge with a variety of classic images, Goodyear's tire emblem, a Fleur-de-Lis, and the stylized helmet. As for modern dealer stickers on backs of cars, I hate them and never leave their "free advertizing" on my cars. In 2020 I was with my son scouting out new cars and he settled on a red 2021 Honda Civic 6 speed sport coupe, very nice sleek little car. We told the sales person we did not want a license plate bracket on front (our province only requires a rear plate) and definitely no dealer sticker on back. When we went to pick up the car the next day, sure enuf there is an 8" long dealer sticker on trunk lid, and crooked at that, grrr! We waited half an hour while they removed it without damaging paint. Many people don't realize the valuable free advertising these decals give dealers.

[ch1929]

Picture of my tire cover from the 20's

[Walt G]

Roland

THANK YOU this is outstanding! I used to see more of these on cars but that was in the 1960s and it has now been another 60 years so they have mostly all deteriorated.

Last one I saw on a car had been there since new and was on a Franklin from about 1926 and that was over 30 years ago at that club's annual car event.

I am very enthused about this kind of stuff, it just reflects the entire era that most reading these forums are not aware of. You have to see it in person to believe it.

Walt

[TAKerry]

On 4/12/2024 at 12:23 PM, ch1929 said:

Picture of my tire cover from the 20's

Im very near Bel Air, was suppose to head over this morning for Cars n Coffee!