1910-12 Oldsmobile Limited

[8E45E]

7 minutes ago, Dandy Dave said:

I have a rim out in the barn. Does that mean I can build a fake from it? 

Good starting point!  Maybe the next box of Cheerios will have the speedometer in it!!

 

Craig

[8E45E]

On 3/24/2024 at 6:49 PM, John_S_in_Penna said:

Even if you don't own an early car, or aspire to

own one, the history is very interesting.

 

My 1916 Locomobile is about 6'9" high, and the

catalogue extols their "low" stature.  Cars were

getting lower even then.  I understand the Olds

Limited cars to be about 8-and-a-half feet tall!

A majority won't have a garage tall enough to accommodate such a vehicle of that height.  I can only imagine how much more overhead clearance is needed should one want to raise or lower the top while parked inside the garage.  It also applies to a vintage 'big rig' two-ton & up truck, especially with a vertical exhaust stack.  I tell people I was 'garage shopping' 30 years ago; not 'house shopping'.

 

Craig

[raybelf]

When you look at the Oldsmobile Limited you have segments for the cars. The 1909 Model Z and the 1910 Limited have a 130 inch wheelbase and used a 500 CID 6 cylinder engine rated at 60hp a 3 speed gearbox and the 43X5 tires. The 1911 and 1912 cars were increased in size. These later cars had a 138 inch wheelbase, a 707 CID 6 cylinder engine also rated at 60 hp, a 4 speed gearbox and the 43X5 tires.  

[jdome]

I think Underslung wears 43 inch tires, which is another large auto of this era but of course with a much lower profile. It would be interesting,  maybe cartoonish to see an Underslung parked next to one of these olds

[West Peterson]

1 hour ago, jdome said:

I think Underslung wears 43 inch tires, which is another large auto of this era but of course with a much lower profile. It would be interesting,  maybe cartoonish to see an Underslung parked next to one of these olds

What's more comical, or cartoonish, is seeing a giant next to a single-cylinder car. While the Packard is a step below in size to the Olds Limited, these "Mutt 'n Jeff" photos of a 1911 le Zebre and a 1910 Packard is fun to see.

[TAKerry]

I have seen the Olds in the lobby at the AACA HQ, and also am American Underslung at the Simione. Unless one is standing next to one of these, you have no idea how big and imposing they really are. Truly beautiful automobiles!

[cxgvd]

A four cylinder Oldsmobile Autocrat with a 1912 Cadillac on tour. Well used Autocrat, has been driven around Europe and to local restaurants, too.

 

Regards, Gary

 

[8E45E]

8 hours ago, jdome said:

I think Underslung wears 43 inch tires, which is another large auto of this era but of course with a much lower profile. It would be interesting,  maybe cartoonish to see an Underslung parked next to one of these olds

The American Underslung in Harrah's.

[A Woolf]

48 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

The American Underslung in Harrah's.

The largest tire used on an American Underslung was 41 x 4-1/2 (32 inch diameter rim).  That is what the car pictured uses.  The Olds LImited uses 43 x 5  tire (33 inch diameter rim).  I believe I am correct in saying the Olds Limited had the the largest tire of any production automobile.  I am not sure how tall this car is but I am sure it is significantly shorter than an Olds Limited.

 

[8E45E]

14 minutes ago, A Woolf said:

I am not sure how tall this car is but I am sure it is significantly shorter than an Olds Limited.

 

It is shorter than the Olds.

 

[wayne sheldon]

The le Zebre next to the Packard makes me think of the miniature Reo that the Ringling Brothers/Barnum and Bailey Circus had back in those years. (I believe that it still exists?)

[Stude Light]

5 minutes ago, wayne sheldon said:

The le Zebre next to the Packard makes me think of the miniature Reo that the Ringling Brothers/Barnum and Bailey Circus had back in those years. (I believe that it still exists?)

The Baby REO is on display at the RE Olds Transportation Museum in Lansing.

It runs and drives along with its Mama.

 

 

[wayne sheldon]

Thank you! I thought that was where it was, just wasn't certain.

[Stude Light]

On 3/24/2024 at 10:12 PM, BobinVirginia said:

A reprint of that painting would be epic man cave material. Are any available? 

While Executive Director at the RE Olds Transportation Museum, I had an original hanging in my office. I never got tired of seeing it.

This gives an idea of the size of the Limited

With the "limited" sales (pun intended) of "cars for the rich", it's no wonder the Smiths ran Olds Motor Works to the brink of insolvency and were happy to sell out to Billy Durant and get out of the auto manufacturing business. I'm sure Ransom Olds took some pleasure in seeing Olds Motor Works struggle to survive while he was pumping out his REOs on the other side of the Grand River in Lansing. 

[jdome]

That is my point about the Underslung.  The opposite of the limited. Big, powerful and expensive but because the chassis and body are suspended below the axles it has a very low and squatty profile. Even lower than a typical model T.  A well known collector in my area, Bill Haines,  owned 3 or 4 Underslungs from the 50s to the 90s before his passing. He also owned The Baby REO as well.  I've also had the privilege of seeing an Olds limited up close and personal.  They are huge motorcars.

[BobinVirginia]

How is the drivability of these? Are they laborious to drive? I see cars like this and wonder what the driving experience is like? The steering ratio in my Haynes is quite faster than I’d imagined. Makes me wonder what a car as massive as these are really like from a drivers perspective. 
 

Since it was a high end vehicle and assumed a chauffeur would drive, did driver experience matter? These are things I would like to know about such cars. 

Edited March 27 by BobinVirginia (see edit history)

[Tph479]

You really have to see one of the Oldsmobile Limited’s in person to fully comprehend how large and over the top they are in size. I think I have seen 8 of these in person over the years and I am still amazed at how big they are. 

[chuck f]

1 hour ago, Tph479 said:

You really have to see one of the Oldsmobile Limited’s in person to fully comprehend how large and over the top they are in size. I think I have seen 8 of these in person over the years and I am still amazed at how big they are. 

 

[chuck f]

really curious as to who owns this magnificent machine,  Initials possibly E.E. from Kalamazoo??

[BobinVirginia]

1 hour ago, Tph479 said:

You really have to see one of the Oldsmobile Limited’s in person to fully comprehend how large and over the top they are in size. I think I have seen 8 of these in person over the years and I am still amazed at how big they are. 

Thank you for sharing! I’ve never seen one and would love to imagine how they drive. They’re very much a car out of my ownership but not out of reach for appreciation 

[8E45E]

1 hour ago, Tph479 said:

You really have to see one of the Oldsmobile Limited’s in person to fully comprehend how large and over the top they are in size. I think I have seen 8 of these in person over the years and I am still amazed at how big they are. 

The Limiteds might have the tallest wheels and fenders of any car made, but the early Limiteds might also have the shortest front doors in the industry!!

 

 

[BobinVirginia]

6 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

The Limiteds might have the tallest wheels and fenders of any car made, but the early Limiteds might also have the shortest front doors in the industry!!

 

 

Interesting! I’ve never seen one and only have knowledge of them from  the internet. That’s the real reason I started this thread. I want to hear actual experience of these fairytale cars. Being born in 1976 a lot of first hand experience has escaped me. 

Edited March 28 by BobinVirginia (see edit history)

[dpeeler]

 

Seldom seen 2 Limiteds on the show field together. This was at last month’s new Moda Miami Concours. Both are 1911 models, the unrestored car a 7 passenger Touring and the dark red one a 4 passenger Tourabout. The vast majority of the Limiteds produced were Touring cars. The Tourabout, on the other hand, was one of the fewest body styles produced and is seldom seen. With a sportier profile, the one at Miami was slightly under 8’ tall and the height of the front fender from ground at roughly 50”.

 

If you ask a Limited owner how they ride and drive, they will probably tell you they are very comfortable but can be a handful due to their size and weight. Easily capable of speeds approaching 65 mph or greater, stopping has to be planned (rear wheel brakes only).

Edited March 28 by dpeeler (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

You have had two Limited owners respond here and one has many, many miles behind the wheel.  The white car is the one we restored at Ohlendorf's Restoration Shop in Beecher, Illinois.  It was the Old's factory car and had been damaged while improperly displayed at a theme park.  Olds gave it to me to oversee the restoration efforts.  I had the car for about 5 years and had a 9' tall trailer to take it to various events. A blast to drive at speed but NO fun at all if you are asked to use it at a concours for a style show.  Turning the steering wheel on this takes some mighty effort if you are not moving.

 

As to the paintings.  This is a constant source of confusion for people due to the quality of the oleographs used to make copies.  No one knows what happened to the real original painting that hung in Olds' headquarters.  It disappeared many years ago and was thought to be given to a retired employee. There were three early version's of the painting that today look like they are an original painting but they are not and at least two have been advertised as originals.  For Oldsmobile's 75th Anniversary they released a smaller version.  These generally sell in the $500 range plus or minus.  The very early ones can bring several thousand.  Ken Eberts also did a night version.

[Walt G]

56 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

There were three early version's of the painting that today look like they are an original painting but they are not

Austin Clark had one of the early version prints mentioned here hanging in his library of automotive catalogs, periodicals, photos. I used to see it every day for several years when I worked for him in the early 1970s as his librarian. He also had a curved dash olds that was perched at the top of the roof over the entrance to his museum in Southampton , NY  as an advertisement  That car did get restored by I believe someone in Ct. who bought it.

Edited March 29 by Walt G (see edit history)

[28 Chrysler]

Steve mentioned the Armstrong steering but also there is a gyro effect on the tall wheels can be felt at a good speed.

[29 Chandler]

Here's an Oldsmobile factory photo I have of what I think is a 1911 Oldsmobile Limited. I am able to blow up the image and clearly see the tire size of 42 x 4 1/2"

Edited March 29 by 29 Chandler (see edit history)

[dpeeler]

Early series factory literature did show tires 42 x 4 1/2 without distinguishing by body style. Later on they would show the 42 x 4 1/2 on Roadsters and Tourabouts with 43 x 5 on Touring and Limousines. Both, of course, use the same 33" wood wheel.

[nsbrassnut]

I have only seen one of them in person, and it was very impressive. I had to go back a bit in my files to find pictures of it when it was on display in the AACA museum at the time.

[bryankazmer]

10 hours ago, 29 Chandler said:

Here's an Oldsmobile factory photo I have of what I think is a 1911 Oldsmobile Limited. I am able to blow up the image and clearly see the tire size of 42 x 4 1/2"

I believe the building in the background is Olds Hall at Michigan State University

[Brass is Best]

On 3/27/2024 at 10:15 PM, 8E45E said:

The Limiteds might have the tallest wheels and fenders of any car made, but the early Limiteds might also have the shortest front doors in the industry!!

 

 

 

The Olds and the 1911 Buick Model 26 Runabout shared very similar doors.

Edited March 30 by Brass is Best (see edit history)

[Brass is Best]

On 3/26/2024 at 12:49 PM, West Peterson said:

What's more comical, or cartoonish, is seeing a giant next to a single-cylinder car. While the Packard is a step below in size to the Olds Limited, these "Mutt 'n Jeff" photos of a 1911 le Zebre and a 1910 Packard is fun to see.

That Packard is killer... Wow!

[Steve Moskowitz]

While the front door on the Buick is similar to the 1908 Olds Prototype they are not the same.  The Olds is sitting about 30' from me this morning and it is a very unique door and looks to be smaller than the Buick and certainly shaped a bit different.

[BobinVirginia]

1 minute ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

While the front door on the Buick is similar to the 1908 Olds Prototype they are not the same.  The Olds is sitting about 30' from me this morning and it is a very unique door and looks to be smaller than the Buick and certainly shaped a bit different.

Thank you for your input! I’d like to thank the other contributors as well! I was thrilled when you informed me earlier that two owners of these cars replied! 
I really need to see some of these vehicles for myself. 

[BobinVirginia]

On 3/28/2024 at 9:15 AM, dpeeler said:

 

Seldom seen 2 Limiteds on the show field together. This was at last month’s new Moda Miami Concours. Both are 1911 models, the unrestored car a 7 passenger Touring and the dark red one a 4 passenger Tourabout. The vast majority of the Limiteds produced were Touring cars. The Tourabout, on the other hand, was one of the fewest body styles produced and is seldom seen. With a sportier profile, the one at Miami was slightly under 8’ tall and the height of the front fender from ground at roughly 50”.

 

If you ask a Limited owner how they ride and drive, they will probably tell you they are very comfortable but can be a handful due to their size and weight. Easily capable of speeds approaching 65 mph or greater, stopping has to be planned (rear wheel brakes only).

Amazing vehicles! Thank you for sharing! I really appreciate it 

[John_S_in_Penna]

53 minutes ago, BobinVirginia said:

I was thrilled when you informed me earlier that two owners of these cars replied! 

Yes, it's great that owners of Limiteds have contributed

to this topic.  Thank you!  Their knowledge is likely better

than ours, and they help us to understand the topic better.

[Brass is Best]

1 hour ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

While the front door on the Buick is similar to the 1908 Olds Prototype they are not the same.  The Olds is sitting about 30' from me this morning and it is a very unique door and looks to be smaller than the Buick and certainly shaped a bit different.

They are the same idea.

[TAKerry]

Looking at the Olds without the doors and the Buick with them, as an uneducated plebeian, the cars look very similar. However taking the doors away makes the car look so much sportier. 

[Lozierman]

While searching for Lozier parts many years ago I came across an ad in Hemmings that stated the seller had a large 6-cylinder T head motor for sale.  I immediately contacted the seller, and he described it as best he could over the phone, (pre-internet days).  I determined it wasn't a Lozier motor, but I decided it might work until I found the correct motor.  I had a Lozier frame and almost the rest of a chassis along with a Briarcliff body.  I sent him a check and he sent me photos.  When the photos arrived, I knew it wasn't a Lozier motor, but I wanted it anyway.  He crated it and sent it to me.  He lived in Maine, and I live in Washington State.

I had it for many years and wasn't able to identify it as it had no marking except some cast numbers including a serial number.  Many items were nickel plated.  I searched old copies of HCCA, the AACA and spent many hours in the main library checking out bound copies of Horseless Age, Motor, etc.  Never found it in any of the publications.  Finally, a local guy heard about it and he came to see it.  He owned an Olds Autocrat and identified it as an Olds Limited motor.

 

I was later contacted by a collector who had come to Seattle on a business trip.  He came to see it and was overwhelmed to find it was indeed a motor for an Olds Limited.  He wanted to buy it as he had the rest of an Olds Limited chassis and even had the casting of a body.  He said if he could purchase the motor, he could complete the 7th known Limited.  He already had two, so I assumed he knew what he was talking about.  I decided he needed it more than I did as I would not want to see my motor misused. 

 

Last I heard he was trying to sell his Limited project.  I don't know if it is now one of those shown in these posts.

 

I never did find the Lozier motor I needed, but I did find a few others during my searches.  These include a motor for a 1907 Thomas Detroit and a 1911 Pierce Arrow 48.  Both of these found homes that resulted in complete cars.  I eventually traded all of my Lozier parts for a complete, original 1913 Lozier Montclair touring.

Edited March 30 by Lozierman
correct missing words (see edit history)

[BobinVirginia]

@Lozierman

i enjoy hearing stories like this. Always amazing to hear about how things float through time relatively unknown or lost only to be discovered once again. Cool stuff