Packard Twelve Club Sedan at Auction

[Matt Harwood]

4 minutes ago, kar3516 said:

Or perhaps a “put your hands all over it and sit in it if you want to” display…

 

Along with a "Free hantavirus!" sign for that interior.

[TAKerry]

Kinda thinking the same thing. Figured it would need a couple good deep steam cleanings before I would even poke my head inside of that thing!

[pkhammer]

8 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

Kinda thinking the same thing. Figured it would need a couple good deep steam cleanings before I would even poke my head inside of that thing!

I had my head in it for a second or two yesterday. Not a pleasant smell!

Bidding has topped $5,500.00. 2.5 days to go!

[edinmass]

14 hours ago, kramaton said:

I think this car needs what any old car that needs restored has to have. Someone with a positive attitude.

 

 

Bipolar & schizophrenia with an unlimited bank account would be more helpful than a positive attitude........just saying. 😎

[pkhammer]

4 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Bipolar & schizophrenia with an unlimited bank account would be more helpful than a positive attitude........just saying. 😎

That describes most of the antique car friends I have, well, except for the unlimited bank account part.

[1912Staver]

Actually the small number of people that have just 1 old car, in mint shape, that may or may not leave the garage a 1/2 dozen or so times a year and probably pay someone else to work on it eliminating a huge outlay of time and money on all the parts of the hobby apart from the car itself are the sane ones. 90 % of the remainder of us fall into your definition pkhammer. About 5% of us are in Ed's category from what I have seen. 

My father put it best years ago " if you had put just 10% of the effort you put into learning about old cars into learning how to make money all of your problems would have been solved years ago."  Unfortunately time has proved him so right. I continue to learn about old cars with great enthusiasm, the making money part has been a far less successful.

[60FlatTop]

9 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

(I know, I know, serves me right for wasting time in FB forums; not exactly the most informed group of people.)

Wasting time with the informed groups can be equally entertaining.

 

I have never let conformity or logic stand in the way of my buying a car. If fact, the impulse purchases of projects have been the most enjoyable. Never spent a whole lot of money. Never really finished one of major jobs. The worst ones I have sold and made a little money on. Now, what kind of message does that send.

 

I guess there are authorities. They set expectations for followers whom rarely see them met. I was quite young when I learned not to follow.

Edited February 6 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[kramaton]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

 

Bipolar & schizophrenia with an unlimited bank account would be more helpful than a positive attitude........just saying. 😎

Interesting perspective. 

[edinmass]

53 minutes ago, kramaton said:

Interesting perspective. 

 

Works for me over the last 58 years........

[8E45E]

4 hours ago, kar3516 said:

Or perhaps a “put your hands all over it and sit in it if you want to” display…

Good idea!

 

The local P'N'P yard here doesn't allow "children" under 16 years of age into their yard anymore.  It will give them a place to play while dad, or the older brother goes parts hunting!!

 

Craig

[pkhammer]

Car sitting at $6,125.00 with two days to go!

   After thinking on this for a while, I suppose if I were restoring a '33 Packard V12, a $200K? car finished, and I had been desperately trying to locate some missing or busted parts, I could see paying $6k, or $8k or maybe even $10k for this car if everything I needed was right here in one package. Say I needed a headlight bucket, steering wheel, a few door handles, a gauge or two, an original carburetor and air cleaner, a distributor and a cylinder head, would I pay $10k to get the parts I needed to finish a $200k car? Heck yeah!! I'd be thrilled just to find a source for parts that until now seemed to be made of unobtainium. If one can afford to restore a car like that to begin with, that would be a fairly small price to pay to get what I needed. I'd then have a bunch of parts left over to sell to recoup at least some, if not all of my money.

[trimacar]

I’m going to venture that the car brings 14K.  Parts aside, someone could put it in a two car garage, disassemble carefully, cleaned out body off on one side on sawhorses, start cleaning the frame and laying out engine pieces, and have bragging rights for years in Packard circles.

 

As for nasty interior, I once gutted a Pierce Travelodge, where racoons and possoms had lived.  Excrement everywhere, nastiest thing I’ve ever done, bar none.

 

That Packard is a piece of cake.  The worst thing about mice and rats, their piss rusts everything.

[kar3516]

3 hours ago, pkhammer said:

Car sitting at $6,125.00 with two days to go!

   After thinking on this for a while, I suppose if I were restoring a '33 Packard V12, a $200K? car finished, and I had been desperately trying to locate some missing or busted parts, I could see paying $6k, or $8k or maybe even $10k for this car if everything I needed was right here in one package. Say I needed a headlight bucket, steering wheel, a few door handles, a gauge or two, an original carburetor and air cleaner, a distributor and a cylinder head, would I pay $10k to get the parts I needed to finish a $200k car? Heck yeah!! I'd be thrilled just to find a source for parts that until now seemed to be made of unobtainium. If one can afford to restore a car like that to begin with, that would be a fairly small price to pay to get what I needed. I'd then have a bunch of parts left over to sell to recoup at least some, if not all of my money.

The bid is at $6125 but there is a 17% internet premium and 5.3% sales tax.  So the bid is really at $7546 plus costs to retrieve and transport.

[Dave Henderson]

12 hours ago, 8E45E said:

A larger size autowrecker could use it in their showroom/checkout area if they have the space, roped off as a "hands off" display.

 

Craig

By the '40's even good running cars of this ilk became viewed as obsolete gas guzzling dinosaurs.  The term "classic car" hadn't come into the vernacular yet, and their monetary value was chump change.  But pragmatic filling station and repair shop owners saw a use for them.  They could be inexpensively converted to service vehicles or wreckers by selectively removing rear body sections, installing a hand crank crane and a big hefty oak plank at the front for use to push start stranded cars.  Oh, and a big old headlight mounted high at the rear for night work.  I'm of an age that I was able to have seen these conversions, one I remember in particular was a '34 Super 8 done by a nearby station owner.  
Now, wouldn't that be a cooler thing to do with the subject car than parting it, making it into a ratrod, or having it become yard or garage art? 

[Frank DuVal]

On 2/5/2024 at 5:16 PM, pkhammer said:

I don't feel that way when our toaster quits working and I throw it out. Are they both not just metal objects? What makes an old car different?

If it was a Toastmaster Model 1B14 you would fix it!👍 Man that stainless steel sure shines nice. 

[Dave Henderson]

7 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

If it was a Toastmaster Model 1B14 you would fix it!👍 Man that stainless steel sure shines nice. 

Amen.  I just tossed my Toastmaster toaster a year ago, it had been given the fix several times but it was finally done.  We had gotten it as a wedding present.  So what?  Jean and I will be celebrating our 70th wedding anniversary later this year! 

[Restorer32]

Maybe we should change the mission statement of AACA to read  "Dedicated to the preservation of automotive history as long as it makes economic sense".

[8E45E]

10 hours ago, Dave Henderson said:

By the '40's even good running cars of this ilk became viewed as obsolete gas guzzling dinosaurs.  The term "classic car" hadn't come into the vernacular yet, and their monetary value was chump change.  But pragmatic filling station and repair shop owners saw a use for them.  They could be inexpensively converted to service vehicles or wreckers by selectively removing rear body sections, installing a hand crank crane and a big hefty oak plank at the front for use to push start stranded cars.  Oh, and a big old headlight mounted high at the rear for night work.  I'm of an age that I was able to have seen these conversions, one I remember in particular was a '34 Super 8 done by a nearby station owner.  
Now, wouldn't that be a cooler thing to do with the subject car than parting it, making it into a ratrod, or having it become yard or garage art? 

I have seen that numerous times, filling stations cutting down heavy old vehicles into service 'trucks'.   That happened to a 1917 Rolls-Royce I showed a link to here, 4th post down:  

In the 1980's saw a 1925 Studebaker Duplex Phaeton that was being restored from being a tow truck conversion, where the front was restored, and the owner was still working on the back end, as he only recently found correct rear body components for it.

 

Craig

[edinmass]

There is economic sense…….and economic suicide. Interesting challenge, yes…….but when finished it is still a car that was absolutely junk on wheels. I have done cars that were in similar condition. It’s twenty times the work than starting with good bones. And the odds of it being done correctly? Almost zero.

Edited February 7 by edinmass (see edit history)

[pkhammer]

Bidding at $7,003.00 with auction ending tomorrow evening. Will it top $10k? Stay tuned for another episode of "Packard finds a new home"!

[8E45E]

7 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

If it was a Toastmaster Model 1B14 you would fix it!👍 Man that stainless steel sure shines nice. 

I still use my Sunbeam 'Radiant Control' toaster every day!! Home Page (automaticbeyondbelief.org)

 

Craig

[edinmass]

Winning bidder should be given a free tetnus shot……..

[8E45E]

3 minutes ago, edinmass said:

There is economic sense…….and economic suicide. Interesting challenge, yes…….but when finished it is still a car that was absolutely junk on wheels. I have done cars that were in similar condition. It’s twenty times the work than starting with good bones. And the odds of it being done correctly? Almost zero.

That's a huge reason we see 'restomods'; to fix most of the shortcomings of the original product.  Not that I always agree with it, but it can make an outdated, substandard vehicle perform adequately in today's traffic.

 

Craig

[pkhammer]

1 minute ago, edinmass said:

Winning bidder should be given a free tetnus shot……..

I'd be more afraid of the interior. I wanted to get a photo the other day of me sitting in the car. I couldn't bring myself to do it without a hazmat suit. 

[TAKerry]

15 years I would probably have seen something like this and figure.. 'Hey, I'm a pretty good woodworker, I know how to paint a car, I know a guy down the road that does chrome plating. I even know a fellow that knows his way around a motor or two. For $10k, a few hours a week for a year or so and I will have a $100k + classic car!'

 

I am glad I found the AACA forum😁

[alsancle]

10 hours ago, Dave Henderson said:

By the '40's even good running cars of this ilk became viewed as obsolete gas guzzling dinosaurs.  The term "classic car" hadn't come into the vernacular yet, and their monetary value was chump change.  But pragmatic filling station and repair shop owners saw a use for them.  They could be inexpensively converted to service vehicles or wreckers by selectively removing rear body sections, installing a hand crank crane and a big hefty oak plank at the front for use to push start stranded cars.  Oh, and a big old headlight mounted high at the rear for night work.  I'm of an age that I was able to have seen these conversions, one I remember in particular was a '34 Super 8 done by a nearby station owner.  
Now, wouldn't that be a cooler thing to do with the subject car than parting it, making it into a ratrod, or having it become yard or garage art? 

You have the further issue that the collector generation of the 50s, 60, 70s and 80s (i.e my dad and his buddies) would view even a new low mileage version of this car as "parts".

[pkhammer]

I'm wondering if perhaps there are two guys competing for this car that both need parts badly. Maybe once the auction is over, they can make contact, share the cost and both get what they need. In a perfect world maybe this could happen............🤔

[8E45E]

20 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Bipolar & schizophrenia with an unlimited bank account would be more helpful than a positive attitude........just saying. 😎

Are you being reminded of this?  

Craig

[8E45E]

3 minutes ago, pkhammer said:

In a perfect world maybe this could happen............🤔

In a perfect world, it will be restored in my lifetime.

 

Craig

[kramaton]

I think from day one these big classic cars were built for the upper class. The average working man during the depression couldn't even afford a new Chevy. Most drove used cars if they had a car at all. So to this day these cars are unaffordable to the average working class. Just my thoughts. 

[trimacar]

6 minutes ago, kramaton said:

I think from day one these big classic cars were built for the upper class. The average working man during the depression couldn't even afford a new Chevy. Most drove used cars if they had a car at all. So to this day these cars are unaffordable to the average working class. Just my thoughts. 

I somewhat disagree.

 

There were over a million cars built which qualify as Full Classics.  Even now, an entry level Full Classic, running and driving, can be had for under $25K.  

 

So, the middle class can't afford that, but they can afford an F-150 or a Silverado at $70K plus?  That's not all rich folk driving those expensive new cars around.  It's not how much it cost, it's "how much per month".

 

As a friend of mine states, it's a choice.  If one were even of modest means, and wanted a Full Classic, there are ways to make it happen.  No, the "middle class" usually doesn't own Duesenbergs, but there are lots of other Classics out there (as in the CCCA definition, not modern "classics")

[Mr. Don]

There are also those rare individuals who from a very very modest beginnings make it happen! George Daniels taught himself the basics of watch making, and then passionately pursued that, making his work better and better, making connections, applying himself and ultimately becoming the "Best"

 

He got into the "Hobby" and eventually owned the Birkin Bentley (the big red Brooklands monster), also Ettore Bugatti's personal car, and a few other desirables!

Not too bad!

[63RedBrier]

3 hours ago, trimacar said:

I somewhat disagree.

 

There were over a million cars built which qualify as Full Classics.  Even now, an entry level Full Classic, running and driving, can be had for under $25K.  

 

So, the middle class can't afford that, but they can afford an F-150 or a Silverado at $70K plus?  That's not all rich folk driving those expensive new cars around.  It's not how much it cost, it's "how much per month".

 

As a friend of mine states, it's a choice.  If one were even of modest means, and wanted a Full Classic, there are ways to make it happen.  No, the "middle class" usually doesn't own Duesenbergs, but there are lots of other Classics out there (as in the CCCA definition, not modern "classics")

Always buy a new vehicle by negotiating on the price and NOT by the monthly payment!  If you need to make monthly payments, then look for the best interest rate!

[John Bloom]

3 hours ago, trimacar said:

I somewhat disagree.

 

There were over a million cars built which qualify as Full Classics.  Even now, an entry level Full Classic, running and driving, can be had for under $25K.  

 

So, the middle class can't afford that, but they can afford an F-150 or a Silverado at $70K plus?  That's not all rich folk driving those expensive new cars around.  It's not how much it cost, it's "how much per month".

 

As a friend of mine states, it's a choice.  If one were even of modest means, and wanted a Full Classic, there are ways to make it happen.  No, the "middle class" usually doesn't own Duesenbergs, but there are lots of other Classics out there (as in the CCCA definition, not modern "classics")

It’s always good every now and then to remind yourself and others that there are some guys driving super expensive high-end cars and those guys are broke. There are also some guys driving around in a ratty modest model T, and they own the whole town. I know examples of both of those types of people.

[Tph479]

On 2/5/2024 at 4:16 PM, pkhammer said:

  I got to see the Packard in person after work today. What a shame what was once such an elegant automobile has been left to deteriorate to what exists now. Why is it when I get around an old car like this it seems to tug on my heart strings like a lost puppy or abused animal would? I don't feel that way when our toaster quits working and I throw it out. Are they both not just metal objects? What makes an old car different?

  This car seemed to say "Please sir, can you help me? I was once the pride and joy of my owner, grand and elegant, but I was abandoned, forgotten, and left with nobody to care for me. I was recently awoken from my slumber however and brought here! What will be my fate? Are you going to rescue me?".

   I assured the car that I was not the right guy to rescue it, but that it would indeed soon have a new owner that would hopefully rescue it.

  More photos and condition notes to follow.

 

 

The original owner of this car should have spent the money and had the TruCoat paint sealer put on. It would have prevented the oxidation issues....

[kar3516]

5 hours ago, pkhammer said:

I'm wondering if perhaps there are two guys competing for this car that both need parts badly. Maybe once the auction is over, they can make contact, share the cost and both get what they need. In a perfect world maybe this could happen............🤔

As @edinmass has already stated here and elsewhere this car is absolutely a parts car.  But the purchase of a parts car such as this is the ONLY way to economically attempt a restoration of a more rare body style of the same make IF you can’t afford the entry amount for a decent complete car of your dreams.  Buying a car one part at a time is for the foolhardy or the uber-rich.  I’ll bet it sells for $15K all in

Edited February 7 by kar3516 (see edit history)

[edinmass]

17 minutes ago, Tph479 said:

The original owner of this car should have spent the money and had the TruCoat paint sealer put on. It would have prevented the oxidation issues....

 

Should have had Rusty Jones give it a undercoat job!

[Matt Harwood]

I think the engine alone as an inert lump is still worth $6000-8000, minimum. It looks very complete, which is a big plus. I paid $3500 for 3/4 of a Lincoln V12 that was sitting on a dirt floor and thought it was the bargain of the century.

 

Decent, complete, not-smashed grille shell, maybe $1000.

 

Gauges look pretty nice, maybe another $1000.

 

Generator, starter, water pump, distributor, each maybe $500.

 

If there's an undamaged carburetor, figure $2500-3500, maybe more.

 

Welled front fenders that look pretty good, maybe $1500. Does it still have sidemount covers? Then double that figure.

 

Headlights? Meh, without lenses they might bring $400-500. Same with the horns.

 

Hood looks OK and the vent doors are there, so that might be worth $750-1000 to someone with a Super 8 or Twelve in need.

 

Misc. interior fittings like handles, defroster outlets, window garnish moldings, maybe $500 in aggregate.

 

Bumpers? Maybe $500 for the pair. They're unique to the big series Packards.

 

There's surely some value in wire wheels with hubcaps, brake drums, the transmission, the rear end, and other big parts. Maybe another $2500 en toto.

 

Anyway, it's most definitely a parts car, but if you're ambitious, have time and space to store a disassembled car, and the means to drag it home, there may yet be some upside to parting it out. I guarantee the bidders are doing this math, not trying to figure out how to turn it back into a functioning automobile. 1934 Packard parts are still in demand and valuable and even though most Twelves have been found and restored, there are definitely cars out there being restored today that will need parts (or someone maybe just wants to put a spare on the shelf--I am such a person). Either way, I am pretty sure there are about to be a bunch of 1934 Packard Twelve parts on eBay...

[8E45E]

1 hour ago, John Bloom said:

It’s always good every now and then to remind yourself and others that there are some guys driving super expensive high-end cars and those guys are broke. There are also some guys driving around in a ratty modest model T, and they own the whole town. I know examples of both of those types of people.

Me too!!  The guy I knew who practically owned both sides of almost a full block of a major thoroughfare in Edmonton drove a base model Valiant four door sedan.

 

Craig

[jeff_a]

A lot of rational statements about this 1934 Packard; yes a man or woman with a few thousand to buy it who's too starry-eyed to realize how many $10,000 jobs there are to get it in good shape is in for a disappointment, but there are a LOT pf people who could make a few phone calls to come up with the money for a turn-key restoration. In 2007 somebody wrote a $577,500 check for a Vega, and in 2012 two old boys paid $2,000,000 for some slippers Judy Garland wore for a few hours.