Stuck Cylinder Head Bolts - 25 Jewett Six

[ch1929]

Attempting to remove the cylinder head bolts off of my 25 Jewett 6, so far 2 have come out with no issues and 2 have broken using a 1/2 rachet and 5/8 short socket

 

Any suggestions on not braking anymore? Did not try heating the head bolt, fear of cracking the cyl head. 

[Matt Harwood]

I don't think you need to worry about cracking the head by applying heat--it's only sudden cold that typically cracks cast iron. Douse them in penetrating oil every day for a few days, then heat the bolts red hot and gently work them back and forth. No guarantees, but heat, time, patience, and some penetrating oil are your best friends. I removed 58 head studs from my 1935 Lincoln V12 and broke more than half of them no matter what I did. If you're lucky, they won't shear off at the deck surface and you'll have something to grab when you get the head off.

 

Heat them up cherry red, put a wrench on them and work them back and forth to try to break any rust, and talk nicely to them. Just take your time and don't do it when you're tired or frustrated. Do one or two and walk away. This is the voice of experience.

Good luck!

[keiser31]

I always try to tighten them a little before loosening the blots.

 

[Rusty_OToole]

An air wrench or electric wrench will often rattle a bolt loose when it is stuck.

[pkhammer]

Apply heat as suggested above, rap (not too hard) with a hammer a few times, spray with kroil or your favorite penetrating oil. Repeat every day for a week or more until they decide to come out.

[DFeeney]

Follow the above advice,  Slow and easy is the word.   Patience is far easier than drilling out the broken studs.   My Ex-Mother-in law ( may she rest in peace) could have starred them out.

[28 Chrysler]

12 minutes ago, DFeeney said:

Follow the above advice,  Slow and easy is the word.   Patience is far easier than drilling out the broken studs.   My Ex-Mother-in law ( may she rest in peace) could have starred them out.

My mother would have cussed them out.

Take your time. If you use an impact as stated above use a low power setting in both directions.

[ch1929]

Thanks for all of the replies, I have been soaking them for a couple of days and then I will apply the heat this weekend and see how it goes.

 

[wayne sheldon]

Two people. One with a box end wrench pulling hard. The other with a big punch or half inch (about?) steel rod maybe six inches long tapping down lightly with a heavy (medium weight?) hammer. Sometimes the repeated shocks and vibrations will help shake the seizing rust loose enough to get it started. Sometimes that doesn't work.

 

An idea I have toyed with, but never done? Part of the problem here is that the bolt has had decades for moisture to ingress and rust to develop and bind the threads and bolt shank. Often, the bolt head has squeezed and bonded somewhat to the head casting. This makes it difficult, and sometimes impossible for the penetrating oil to get inside enough to flow down through the head and reach the threads were it is needed.

What about using an electric drill, and the smallest drill bit you can chuck into it. Drill in close and barely downward from the side of the bolt head's hex, only about 3/16 of an inch. 

While they may be close, usually head bolts are not tight in the head. That small hole would allow penetrating oil to get inside to where the limited space between the head and head bolts would then allow the penetrating oil to flow down to where it is needed.

The small dimple left on the surface of the head would actually be harmless, and hidden under the bolts put in when the head is reinstalled.

If one were to drill too far, the bolt shank could be nicked and the bolt would have a potential fracture start and need to be replaced.

 

I have considered trying this several times myself. However, so far, every time I have considered it, the bolts began coming loose by standard practices.

Edited July 27, 2023 by wayne sheldon
I hate leaving typos! (see edit history)

[ch1929]

Thanks Wayne! I had tapped the bolts but not while pulling the wrench.

 

[c49er]

Good luck...your're going to need a lot of it.

 

[63RedBrier]

KROIL is my go to penetrant!  Expensive, but worth the money!  Over $100/gallon, but I put some in very small soft squeeze bottles with needle dispensers, much easier to pinpoint instead of spraying all over with an aerosol...  Much great advice above!  Please come back when you get the head totally off and let us know your findings!  

[Hemi Joel]

Enuff heat on the threads, and it will come loose. The problem I have had with heating head bolts is that a propane torch isn't hot enuff, and the oxyacetylene torch will liquify the head before the threads get hot enuff.  Plus everything else get hot. 

So I decided to try an inductive heater. It works awesome! It will heat the head red, without heating all the surrounding stuff. I can zap it until the heat spreads down to the thread with no collateral damage. It works great on exhaust manifold bolts too. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/EMAGIH-Repairing-Flameless-Electromagnetic-Induction/dp/B08PD8ZSXZ/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=bolt+heater&qid=1690577299&sr=8-5

[wayne sheldon]

4 hours ago, 63RedBrier said:

KROIL is my go to penetrant!  Expensive, but worth the money!  Over $100/gallon, but I put some in very small soft squeeze bottles with needle dispensers, much easier to pinpoint instead of spraying all over with an aerosol...  Much great advice above!  Please come back when you get the head totally off and let us know your findings!  

 

Kroil is amazing stuff! My dad bought a gallon of the stuff when it was largely unknown almost forty years ago. I think he paid about twenty dollars for it then. I still have the can and about a quarter of it left over (he passed away almost twenty years ago). It still works where most products won't. However, there are some places it may not get through, and head bolts is one of those places.

 

Another surprisingly good penetrant is older type brake fluid. I being a cheapskate and wanting to hoard what really old new stuff I have left, I use some bled out of a 1960s car many years ago. I kept a small bottle of the used stuff (clearly marked as "Used" just for use as penetrating fluid. It has allowed removal of a few things even Kroil alone didn't do the trick. Of course perhaps the remaining Kroil mixed with the brake fluid may be what did the trick?

[c49er]

My Kroil is mostly great but the cans seem to run out of propellant before fluid.🤫

[Robert G. Smits]

5 hours ago, Hemi Joel said:

It works great on exhaust manifold bolts too.

Read the negative reviews on Amazon as well as the positive.  Apparently made in China

[brasscarguy]

After soaking with Kroil or Rust Buster for a few days, then take a decent size ball peen hammer and whack the heads of the bolts a few times then more flooding. After a few days whack the heads again. You should be able to get some back and forth movement more flooding then more whacking do not spare the horses when I say Wack I mean Hit the damn head with a strong arm swing dead nuts on the head. This is how we remove head bolts on old marine engines that have salt water corrosion. They will come out just don't rush the process.

 

just sayin'

 

brasscarguy

[Hemi Joel]

1 hour ago, Robert G. Smits said:

Read the negative reviews on Amazon as well as the positive.  Apparently made in China

Yes made in China. But it works well.

[63RedBrier]

7 hours ago, c49er said:

My Kroil is mostly great but the cans seem to run out of propellant before fluid.🤫

Buy the Kroil in a quart or gallon can and just put some in a small squeeze container with a narrow tip and you can squirt a little bit exactly where you want it!

 

[ch1929]

I sure do appreciate all of the advice. I will try the soaking and whacking first and see what happens. 

[Rusty_OToole]

On 7/28/2023 at 4:54 PM, Hemi Joel said:

Enuff heat on the threads, and it will come loose. The problem I have had with heating head bolts is that a propane torch isn't hot enuff, and the oxyacetylene torch will liquify the head before the threads get hot enuff.  Plus everything else get hot. 

So I decided to try an inductive heater. It works awesome! It will heat the head red, without heating all the surrounding stuff. I can zap it until the heat spreads down to the thread with no collateral damage. It works great on exhaust manifold bolts too. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/EMAGIH-Repairing-Flameless-Electromagnetic-Induction/dp/B08PD8ZSXZ/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=bolt+heater&qid=1690577299&sr=8-5

You can do the same trick with an arc welder and a carbon rod. They used to sell a little 110 volt welder, almost a toy, the size of a battery charger. I knew a machine shop that kept one around just for heating things up, for installing bearings, loosening bolts etc.

 

I'm told you can get a carbon rod out of an old flashlight battery but have not tried it.

[R Walling]

When I remove ehxaust nuts from an engine, I heat them red hot and let them cool. I then reheat them red hot and let them cool again. Then I heat them again until hot and then try to remove them. Turn it a little and then turn it back several times before trying to finally take it off.

[dodge28]

All the above suggestions have some degree of merit . I would try something different. Grind all the bolt heads flush , heat the head with a propane torch and pound it with a lead hammer. to loosen the head gasket. After removing the head there is plenty of stock bolt left to heat close to the block. Removing the left over bolts will be easy. 

First make sure the threads of the bolts are standard SAE. The reason  I am saying this not all head bolts threads were the same in that era.

[EmTee]

Replace them with studs for reassembly.

[dodge28]

Em Te  that is a very good idea. In addition paste the studs with copper grease.

 

[sagefinds]

When bolts or plugs or plumbing fittings are threaded,there are bunches of microscopic hairs,ridges,etc sticking out,most not visable with the naked eye. When the bolt or fitting is tightened to the right,all those things are downwind to the left. When you go to unscrew one of these items,all those little hairs are like roadblocks. It's almost imperitive to get the thing to turn right a smidge,then going left could be more possibile. Like stated above,it's unlikely any penetrating oil will get past the head of the bolt slammed against the top of the head and down to the threads. Grinding the head off will almost always leave some damage. Maybe grind a little on one side to have an avenue to get the oil down in. It it was me,I would get some low splatter welding rod like 3/32 7018,light up on the bolthead and make a good puddle. While it's still hot,put a 6-point box end on it,give it a medium blow clockwise with a hammer,then counterclockwise. Maybe try it a couple of times. It looks like you're going to have to get new head bolts anyway and probably better quality than the originals. 

  And then,I would like to ask a favor. I have a bare unidentified 6 cyl crankcase except for valves,I put it on the What Is It site and the only response I got was possibly mid 20's Jewett. Would you post left and right pictures of your block that I might compare? It's back under some shelving with the wrong side out,otherwise I might be able to tell by your one picture. If it turns out to be Jewett it might be something you would be interested in anyway. Thanks.

[Frank DuVal]

On 7/28/2023 at 10:24 PM, c49er said:

My Kroil is mostly great but the cans seem to run out of propellant before fluid.🤫

That's what an ice pick is for, converting an aerosol can to a metal can holding liquid with a pour hole, or two (opposite sides of the top) so it pours easier!

 

My go to penetrant is ATF. I keep used ATF that I drain during changes. I use it full strength mostly, like for getting rusted pilers to work again, or with some Acetone (50/50 is internet advice) to get it to creep into crevices faster.  But just ATF itself will eventually creep in. As said above, time is the secret. Keep the joint (between bolt and head) wet all the time. Days, weeks. New ATF works too. Get a pump oil can at Harbor Freight, etc. Or since it is a flat horizontal head engine, just pour it on.

 

You can still use heat, just watch the flames at first, they go out quick.

 

It has replaced Kroil in most of my work.

 

I have yet to try the melting wax into the crevice method. Since people on the west coat say it works, I figure it is just for lightly rusty fasteners. Ha!🤣

 

I do want to buy an induction heater, but the only good reviews (online and friends) are for the Mini-Ductor brand name one. ~$600. I think tasks like this are what they are made for. Just another version of the bearing heaters we used in the electric motor shop years ago. Hmm, you have a lot of bolts left to remove, that $600 may pay for itself quick in not having to remove so many broken bolt pieces.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)

[c49er]

I have done so many head bolt and head stud jobs...

Seems o matter  what penetrant you use, how much blue tip, careful firm hammering, time spent waiting ...

you still cannot be sure of success getting a head bolt or stud out in one piece.

Have driiled out and welded onto a lot of broken off bolts and studs over the years.

[ch1929]

On 7/30/2023 at 6:01 PM, sagefinds said:

 

  And then,I would like to ask a favor. I have a bare unidentified 6 cyl crankcase except for valves,I put it on the What Is It site and the only response I got was possibly mid 20's Jewett. Would you post left and right pictures of your block that I might compare? It's back under some shelving with the wrong side out,otherwise I might be able to tell by your one picture.

 

I hope these pictures help with your identification of your block. 

 

 

 

[kuhner]

Harbor Freight sells something called a Bolt Breaker.

Appears you use them with your air hammer, socket and box end wrench.

If you don’t like Harbor Freight I’m sure they copied the design from someone else.

 

[Frank DuVal]

I know they (brand names) make a version for brake bleeder screws. 

[sagefinds]

3 hours ago, ch1929 said:

 

I hope these pictures help with your identification of your block. 

 

 

 

Unfortunately it's not the same. Thanks much for posting pictures.