15,000 mile 1976 Cadillac Coupe deVille; Images tell the story

[Professor]

A couple of shots I took yesterday as I started cleaning it out.

 

 

[Professor]

[avgwarhawk]

On 11/25/2022 at 11:08 AM, VW4X4 said:

Joe,

     Do some home work.....  Find out how many were made.  Find out if the car has any significant background, or history that may add value.  IF so, it MIGHT have some value. If not, JUNK IT.  These cars were the worst gross polluters, and gas guzzler,

ever made.  BIG EGO cars...... LOOK AT ME AND WHO I AM , coming down the road.  I personally would never own one.  I called them clown cars, because by the late seventies, you had to be a complete idiot, with complete careless disrespect to health and environment, to have purchased such a monstrosity.  Yet, even today, I'm sure you will find an A$$ for every seat. (as the saying goes).......  If I was you, I would sell parts off of it,  (your not going to stop someone who already owns one), then scrap out the rest.  You will have done your part in keeping the planet clean.   Remembers the cash for clunker program? Consider this car to have been over looked.  Might be a great demolition derby car....  I'm sure I've offended a lot of people who have cars like this.   Maybe that's what it take to use some common sense. Flame suit on....

 

Now, I'm not a big tree huger, or environmentalist, but I am a fairly conservative person, and it has definitely payed off.... Literally  

 

ERIC

 

All of the GM products of this era were gas guzzlers and pollution machines.  Not to mention, oh say, a hemi? Ford had their gas sucking polluters as well.   But oh my it's a hemi in a Dodge. Certainly worth saving. Vehicle emissions were in the infancy stages during the 70s.  Condemning this Caddy to the crusher should include all other manufacturers vehicles of this time period. 

 

It is a nice Caddy.  Some did purchase these for status.  Watch the movie Tin Men. Even Mary Kay Cosmetics awarded a Caddy just like this to the top producers. Although it is pink!  I can't argue the point a Caddy was a car that indicated you have "arrived".  

 

The rubber poly by the tail lights might be hard to find.  If at all. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by avgwarhawk (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

1 hour ago, avgwarhawk said:

 

 

The rubber poly by the tail lights might be hard to find.  If at all. 

 

 

  Available for $250.00 to $400.00.   EBay and others.

 

    This car would make a Good tour car.    Or DD.😁

 

  Ben

[avgwarhawk]

19 minutes ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

 

  Available for $250.00 to $400.00.   EBay and others.

 

    This car would make a Good tour car.    Or DD.😁

 

  Ben

Glad these are available. Many of the cars from the era on up utilized these poly parts.  Certainly there is a market for the poly parts. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by avgwarhawk (see edit history)

[VW4X4]

On 11/27/2022 at 7:18 AM, Professor said:

cutting-edge technology without the bugs removed

I've worked more then 30 years in some of the most technologically advanced fields.  What you describe above is called the  "bleeding edge of technology"  Not to be confused with "leading edge of technology" .   Bleeding all your time, effort, and money.   I try to stay away from this.  I've payed this price to many times... Let someone else take there turn....there's always some young buck who thinks they know it all.

 

One thing that many car manufacturers have learned, is that high technology does not sell cars. Chrysler Airflow, Ford Edsel, Tucker, and many more all learned this hard lesson.  Rightfully so, after seeing cars like this Allantes.  

 

        More food for thought:  Look back in history..... find the one car manufacture  that constantly would sneak technology into there cars, way before everyone else............   That's the cars I drive.... They constantly get it right the first time....

 

ERIC

Edited December 3, 2022 by VW4X4
grammer (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

On 11/26/2022 at 10:23 AM, Professor said:

Hi Eric,

 

People stereotype because it helps process information more quickly.  I agree, Cadillacs come with a stigma associated with a common stereotype.  Stereotypes are nothing more than a common societal perception, and you are definitely not the only one with a Cadillac related stereotype.

 

Joe

 Well said, Joe.  Well said.

 

  Ben

[95Cardinal]

@Professor

If you don't keep this Cadillac, I suggest that you clean it up, get it running and see if Bring a Trailer will take it.

 

As you said, clean, low mileage examples are doing well on that site and this could be another big winner if the underside cleans up as well as I think it will.

Dry ice blasting is expensive, but it is probably an excellent way to get this one ready for auction.

 

As for the colors, I think it is a striking combination and will probably do well at auction.

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by 95Cardinal
Spelling (see edit history)

[EmTee]

Emberglow Firemist was a special order color.  (ref. http://www.rrrclc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/CLC-Color-Database-2017-03-20.pdf)

 

[Roger Zimmermann]

For 1976, more than 114'000 Coupe de Ville were sold...Not a rare car, but how many are still surviving in a good shape? When this one is cleaned, the surface rust will sure be still there but it's not dangerous. The floor seems to be well protected, but I'm not sure if it was from the factory or dealer applied. 

3 or 4 years ago, I bought a 1972 Coupe de Ville, unseen. The car was in Florida; it had about 20'000 miles. My idea was: what can go wrong with such a low mileage? The answer came when I let ship the car to a spare parts supplier/restorer in Pennsylvania: a lot. The car had more rust than that '76; brakes were to be replaced, there was perforating rust at the fender skirts and at one front fender, plus a myriad other small issues. I let repair most; when the car finally arrived in Switzerland, I found other ones like Cruise Control and A/C malfunction. Finally, the cars cost me much more than its effective value. In my opinion, "your" car is in a better shape; other tires are a must, and I would check the brakes thoroughly. Rubber hoses for the fuel will have to be replaced; rubber is expensive and has a limited life.

I'm adding a picture from that '72 coupe: about the same dimensions, much too large for actual driving conditions! You just have to see how the car is exceeding the parking space in front and rear...

Edited December 1, 2022 by Roger Zimmermann (see edit history)

[Professor]

I love that color green, Roger.  This said, I cannot imagine having such a large car in Switzerland.  I spent some time in Europe, and the price of petrol, the size of the roads, and the size of the parking spots would make such a car pretty unwieldy (as you note).  Did this car find a good home in Switzerland?

 

Joe

[Roger Zimmermann]

Well, I don't know what you mean with a "good home"! The car is mine; I'm not found with green, but when I saw the ad for this car, I found that green paint very attractive, not seen at each car at a meet! I cannot take the car home for the night: the garage I have is just adequate for such cars as I could park my other Cadillacs into it. But, with the long doors of this '72 coupe, I may be unable to get out of the car! The car is stored in an old barn at about 10 miles from home.

The picture is 3 years old; the black car, a '57 Eldo Brougham was sold last year.

[Professor]

Thanks Roger.  For some reason, I thought you had sold the green Cadillac.  My grandfather almost always had a green Cadillac, and I became fond of them!

Beautiful car!

 

Joe

[Professor]

Brief update.  I have the new tires on the Cadillac and have all new fluids ready to change out.  I also purchased a new fuel pump (it uses a manual pump) and will replace it prophylactically.  Clean the fuel tank, replace the fuel filter, check brakes and brake lines, replace if necessary, rebuild carburetor (likely), change radiator fluid and back flush system, recharge the cooling system with R-12 (one can, just to see if it holds pressure).  There are two options for this car: 1) I keep it as a show car, 2) I put it on Bring a Trailer (BaT).   I honestly do not know what I will do with it.  I have never had car that I took to shows, but this one might be a candidate.  Really, it all depends on how this car drives.  I do not care about the fuel economy (or should I say lack thereof).

 

I will post more as I go along.  Regardless of what I end up doing with it, I really feel good about getting this car back on the road.

 

Joe

 

 

[VW4X4]

14 minutes ago, Professor said:

 There are two options for this car: 1) I keep it as a show car, 2) I put it on Bring a Trailer (BaT). 

 

BRING A TRAILER (ASAP).  EBAY, Craig's list, Get rid of this monstrosity ASAP.... and get back to the Chrysler....

JUST my opinion .... I honestly would never own a car like this.... 

 

If your going to keep it,  you need to sell the Chrysler to me.. 

I'm afraid the Chrysler may be in the wrong hands....

 

 

[Rivguy]

This is the attitude that the typical citizen has towards any old car. They don't appreciate the historical or cultural value of a vintage car. Like this Cadillac's older sibling, born in 1959, these cars personify the state of the American luxury car at that time. I hope the owner decides to keep and show this car. You don't see many these days, especially in good shape.

[EmTee]

19 hours ago, Professor said:

Really, it all depends on how this car drives.

That ^^^

 

No need to decide yet.  All of the things you're doing need to be done in order to recommission the car anyway.  If you decide to sell, you'll do much better if it is running and driving.

[Professor]

Hi Eric,

 

I won't be selling my 1936 Chrysler Airstream, but, I will likely be without it for a 3-6 months while it is being painted.  I think this huge boat of a car may be the perfect distraction while the Chrysler is gone.  It's funny... I don't think that there are any cars in original condition, that I would not consider owning.  I like cars.  Period.  This said, yes, this is a wallowing beast of a car... but I cannot THINK of a better way to go against the current grain of fuel saving mini-cars.  LOL. 9mpg?  You must admit, this car is a statement of the times from the mid-70s.  I was a senior in high school in 1976, and I remember seeing Cadillacs like this and thinking "wow... they must be RICH".  At the time, and for almost all of my childhood, my parents owned one car; a 1962 Volkswagen Beetle.  You can imagine how a poor kid like me felt when my uncle visited from California in his huge Cadillac.  Riding in that car was an amazing experience.  I had never experienced air conditioning until that first Cadillac ride, and I'll tell you, living in Arizona without home or car air conditioning was sometimes a challenge.

 

Anyway... let's see where this car takes us.  I will treat it like a queen and get it on the road whether I keep it or not.

 

Joe

 

On 12/18/2022 at 1:53 PM, VW4X4 said:

BRING A TRAILER (ASAP).  EBAY, Craig's list, Get rid of this monstrosity ASAP.... and get back to the Chrysler....

JUST my opinion .... I honestly would never own a car like this.... 

 

If your going to keep it,  you need to sell the Chrysler to me.. 

I'm afraid the Chrysler may be in the wrong hands....

 

 

 

[usnavystgc]

If it were me, I would have just aired up the tires and drove it. 

[VW4X4]

7 hours ago, Professor said:

Hi Eric,

 

I won't be selling my 1936 Chrysler Airstream, but, I will likely be without it for a 3-6 months while it is being painted.  I think this huge boat of a car may be the perfect distraction while the Chrysler is gone.  It's funny... I don't think that there are any cars in original condition, that I would not consider owning.  I like cars.  Period.  This said, yes, this is a wallowing beast of a car... but I cannot THINK of a better way to go against the current grain of fuel saving mini-cars.  LOL. 9mpg?  You must admit, this car is a statement of the times from the mid-70s.  I was a senior in high school in 1976, and I remember seeing Cadillacs like this and thinking "wow... they must be RICH".  At the time, and for almost all of my childhood, my parents owned one car; a 1962 Volkswagen Beetle.  You can imagine how a poor kid like me felt when my uncle visited from California in his huge Cadillac.  Riding in that car was an amazing experience.  I had never experienced air conditioning until that first Cadillac ride, and I'll tell you, living in Arizona without home or car air conditioning was sometimes a challenge.

 

Anyway... let's see where this car takes us.  I will treat it like a queen and get it on the road whether I keep it or not.

 

Joe

 

 

Joe,    What happened to the Transmission?  Did you get it back in and driveable?  Did I missed the updates?

Turns out we are about the same age. My dad had a 65 VW bug, and a 70 bug. The 70 was stolen and turned into  a dune buggy.  My dad could have afforded anything he wanted, but at the time little did I know that.  Looking back on things all the people and friends I know who had those big gas hogs vehicles died young.... I wonder if there is a connection?

 

  That car made a statement back then alright.   A real bad statement, about the guy dumb enough to buy it, and the country still building it.   My uncle had a BIG Chrysler Imperial. He was a steel worker, and a union  rep. He was dead at around 50.  Letf the car to my aunt who could not afford it.   

 

I always thought a car that was a good choice, has to be the best in at least one area: Look great, really really fast, the best fual mileage, can carry a very large load, can carry a lot of people, etc. ... Maybe another category that I'm not thinking about.   Otherwise it was a poor choice in cars.    

 

I hope you enjoy the caddy.   Sorry but It doesn't make me think the driver is rich.  It makes me think it was a very very poor choice in cars, then and now, and forever. 

 

ERIC

[Randiego]

Joe,

 

Out in California, when I got here in 1974, it was "What you drive is who you are".  Starting life as a car saleman, I got to have a new demo of the cars we were selling.  If you worked in a Cadillac or Lincoln Mercury agency, you had "arrived" !  You got to keep your demo for 6 months (unless it was sold before then, and that always was the case). You just had to keep it clean and the service department took care of the rest.  SO to H*** with the naysayers and what the others think.  It is a 47 year old car, not a new one.  Besides, the new models look like crap!  The 70's styling was posh and the statement was "It's a Cadillac"  or "There goes a Lincoln"   NO SECOND GUESSING WHAT THE CAR WAS.  Distinctive styling.  All cars were easily identifiable. And the big cars made long trips a breeze.  Arriving comfortable and not worn out.

 

One thing I will say right off.   Your photographs of the Cadillac are not lacking.   You really  give us a good picture out here as to this beautiful car.  In 1974, my good friend had the El Dorado convirtable in red with a red/white accent interior, white top.  That car was a DREAM to drive!  He would send me to the store to pick up groceries or to the bottle shop for our weekend spirits.  I NEVER got tired of driving that car.  The turnsignals had an indicator out on the front of the fender.  when you put them on, it showed you that they were blinking.  Auto Dim headlights, power everything.  What a car!   His neighbor was jealous so he got a white El Dorado.  His license plate said: "Snosled" !   They were a striking pair of automobiles, parked next to eachother in their respective driveways.

 

Joe, this Caddy truely is a survivor.  Ditto to cleaning out the fuel system and the brakes.  Grease the suspension.  Smell the fluid in the transmission.  If it is pink, don't change it, just drain the pan and refill it with new oil.  There is a gallon + in the converter, but I bet you that fluid is still pink.  It takes a lot of driving to get it dirty as the GM transmissions were really  well built.  And sitting does NOT hurt trans fluid.  As long as it is clean. Just check all of the seals and pan gasket.  Once on the road again, a lot of seals may "seep" a little due to contraction from sitting.   I imagine that the inside of the fuel tank will show minimal oxidation, even though it is in New York.  The undercarriage is all surface rust and can be cleaned off and sealed.  With this car, once you get it running I recommend a thourough exterior/interior detail.  That will bring this Cadillac back to it's glory.

 

If you take it to a car show, I will even bet that you will get the award for "best survivor".  This car will be (probably) in the best condition of that class.   Survivors are beginning to get the deserved attention that they had not garnered in the past.  The last show I was at here in SO CAL a 54 Hudson Hornet with 4,200 miles on the odo took first place.  It was in better shape that when it was delivered to the buyer due to the 2nd owners dilligance and hard work. The original owner was killed on a job site (construction) and his father just left the car in the garage with a cover over it, never getting over the loss of his son.  When he passed, his widdow sold the car to a family friend who knew about the car and the story.   

 

He "super detailed" that car, inside, outside, undercarriage, and engine compartment.  It was sparkling and ALL original and loaded with all of the options that Hudson had to offer in 1954.  The original tires were with the car but he had put on a new set for safety reasons.  He displayed the originals, along with extra parts in their original boxes, a Hudson logo tool set, the sales contract, original registration and title in a nicely framed display next to the car.  The runner up was a 1966 Cheverolet Caprice with 28 K miles in beautiful, original condition.  But that Hudson was eye popping!

 

I realize that you have a wonderful car in the Airstream but this car just nees a little love administered and it will be a real beauty.  Plus when you get that De Ville out on the hiway, man..........you will see why so many purchased those wonderful cars.  The El Dorado, the Lincoln Continental Mark IV were hiway cruisers.  Gas was between .49 and .59 cents a gallon, unless there was a "gas war" going on.

So fuel was not an issue.  AND it was gasoline, not this alcohol blend that we are subjected to today.

 

Tough decision, Joe, but if you opt to keep this car and clean it up, you will have one of the finest 76s on the road.  It makes a Sunday drive to your favorite restuarant with the family a comfortable experience.  And you will be amazed at the head turning that it will garner.  Good luck.

Randy  

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

I agree with Randy!   And not SORRY, Eric.   We had a 1976 Fleetwood Brougham.  When it was just a 22 year old used car.  STILL turned heads.  M'Lady liked the "skylite" roof. I appreciated the TORQUY engine.  It did not even know Grapevine hill was there!  Fuel milage was 15+ on the highway.

   We did not die young, either, Eric.  As if the car could do that to a person!  LOL!

 

  Ben

[Professor]

Hi Gang,

 

I am completely stumped by this.  I have a 15,000 mile Cadillac Coupe Deville that was sitting for, let’s say, 30-ish years.  I decide to try and bring it back to life.  The story is in the projects section of this forum.

 

I change the oil and filter, drain the fuel and put in new fuel with a visible inline filter, change the fuel pump, prime the carburetor, and presto!  It fires right up.  I drive it to the gas station to put new fuel in it, it runs perfectly.  I drive home and park it.

 

The next day, I try to start it and it will not start, so I change the ignition module, coil, plug wires, and plugs.  It still will not start.  I rebuild the carburetor since the accelerator pump wasn’t working.  It will still not start.

 

I have fuel, spark… it must be compression.  I remove all the spark plugs and do a compression test:

 

1 - 170

2 - 0

3 - 170

4 - 0

5 - cranking it went to 50 (one compression pulse) and then I released the pressure and it was 0 after that.

6 - same as 5

7 - 0

8 - 0

 

5cc of oil in the zero cylinders does not increase compression.

 

Compression gauge is fine, I tested the “dead” cylinders with my finger and they clearly have no compression except every once in awhile on cylinders 5 and 6.

 

Okay… this car has a nylon toot cam gear… I suspect the timing chain is off timing somehow.

 

I pull everything to get to the timing chain and it is absolutely perfect and the timing marks are lined up as they should be.

 

There is no coolant in the oil and everything appears to be fine.

 

So… what in the world could have happened.  I am guessing I will have to pull the heads, but what could have happened “overnight” to cause a perfectly running car not to run and have such strange compression characteristics?  

 

I bought a new non nylon timing gear set (with chain) so I will change out the timing gear and chain and put all new gaskets in.

[Rusty_OToole]

If I had to guess I would say there was enough old varnishy gas to gum up the rings and valves and now your valves are stuck open on 6 cylinders. If this theory is correct you will see by taking off the valve covers, that the valves are stuck open and do not move when you turn the engine over.

 

Whether it is possible to free the valves by applying penetrating oil and prying them up, without taking the heads off, is another question but might be worth a try.

[m-mman]

24 minutes ago, Professor said:

I change the oil and filter, drain the fuel and put in new fuel with a visible inline filter

All good EXCEPT on a long parked car you must pull the fuel tank and visually inspect it for old gas, rust and sticky goo. 
You can change oil, but the gas tank must be squeaky clean. 
 

And I second the diagnosis from Rusty.  

Edited March 5, 2023 by m-mman (see edit history)

[nickelroadster]

I would go with stuck rings also.

[VW4X4]

59 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

If I had to guess I would say there was enough old varnishy gas to gum up the rings and valves and now your valves are stuck open on 6 cylinders. If this theory is correct you will see by taking off the valve covers, that the valves are stuck open and do not move when you turn the engine over.

 

Whether it is possible to free the valves by applying penetrating oil and prying them up, without taking the heads off, is another question but might be worth a try.

I will second this reply.  I just had this same problem.  Freeing up the valves was easy. WD-40 right   at the valve guide. The real problem is, stuck valves, often bends the push rods.  You may actually find a bunch of bend push rods, but at this stage the valves are now working properly.  They bend because of valve float, (unlikely) or stuck valves. 

 

Joe you should be working on your Chrysler!

 

ERIC

Edited March 6, 2023 by VW4X4 (see edit history)

[tom_in_nh]

You may have several bent pushrods, perhaps due to lifter failure. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by tom_in_nh (see edit history)

[tom_in_nh]

Eric typed faster than I. 

[Frank DuVal]

Yep, you need to drain every part of the fuel system! BTDT. The new fuel softens the old crud and makes a sticky mess that hangs the intake valves. Easy fix unless the push rods bent, then only slightly longer to fix. Usually does not bend the vales, but it will on some engines I hear.

 

 

[37_Roadmaster_C]

I will jump in here and add a third, fourth , fifth and more to the stuck valve issue. @Bloo has a 1970 Mercury with a FE 390. That car was his dads daily driver until he passed. The car sat mostly unstarted for years. One day Bloo decided to get it back on the road. He started it up, I do not know if fresh gas or not, but NO fuel system cleaning. I think it started and ran very poorly. Fast forward to repair...  Several stuck valves and bent push rods. The only thing appairant was a lot of very gummy and crusty fuel "stuff".  I was flabbergasted as I have started many engines that were left in the field for years and the only thing I ever did was to oil the cylinders, turn over by hand, drain any old gas, fresh oil, prime and start.  No problem unless really fouled up.  Bloos Merc was a learning project for me! I learned old gas can really break things AND a Ford/Merc  FE intake with carb can break two fairly husky guys 🤣. Those darn things weigh as much as a Buick 320 head and are just as unruly!!!!  I am sure @Bloowill add to this...

[Bloo]

That gas MIGHT have been 2-4 years old, worst case. It shouldn't have needed cleaning out. The car hadn't been daily driven since 2002, but got exercised every few months until that happened. I was driving around the neighborhood after taking it a little way down the highway. I barely got home. A bunch of pushrods were bent and the valves were glued solid.

 

This seems to be happening a lot more than it used to. Maybe due to changes in the fuel? It has happened to at least 2 other forum users this year and there have been threads about it.

 

[ted sweet]

if valves stuck open the pistion smashed them

[Bloo]

The Mercury didn't. @37_Roadmaster_C and I fixed it right where it was sitting in my driveway without pulling the heads. It still just sits around. It gets only ethanol-free gas now, unless someone is driving it a lot, and that hardly ever happens. I did drive it most of last winter though.

 

[Professor]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I read somewhere that the Cadillac 500 CI engine is a non-interference engine.  Assuming this is true, shouldn’t the valves be protected from hitting the pistons or is there some dynamic involving a stuck lifter that could cause a non-interference engine’s valves to hit the pistons.

 

Remembering that the car ran perfectly when I pulled it into the garage and has not run since, with any luck, there is no valve or piston damage.  An intermittently stuck valve would cause the sometimes zero, sometimes not zero characteristic I see in certain cylinders.

 

Once I install the timing chain and gear set and get the front end of the engine all buttoned up, I will pull the valve covers and report back here.

 

Joe

 

[dodge28]

I would remove the distributor cap and turn the crank or (fan) back and forth while looking for the rotor movement. That will tell you if the plastic on the gears are broken. There will be a  delay in the movement of the rotor

[jp1gt]

I am with dodge28. It used to happen with the cam timing gear. Aluminum gear with plastic teeth. you shut it off and the cam stops real quick but the crank does not. Move the crank and the dist has to move fairly soon, but it is driven by the cam. If you are REAL lucky you did not bend any valves.

[avgwarhawk]

It is quite possible the engine is non-interference.  Valves are fine but stuck open.  Pull the covers.  

[R Walling]

 Had the same problem with my 48 Chrysler straight eight. I would get compression on the first revolution of the engine, then the valve would stay open.

 I took the head off and used WD40 and pushed the valves closed. after cranking it over for a long time, the valves cleaned themselves up. 

[Professor]

On 3/6/2023 at 9:06 AM, dodge28 said:

I would remove the distributor cap and turn the crank or (fan) back and forth while looking for the rotor movement. That will tell you if the plastic on the gears are broken. There will be a  delay in the movement of the rotor

 

I have removed the timing cover and the nylon gear is absolutely perfect.  I am going to yank it out and replace it with a Cloyes timing gear and chain set… it will be one less thing to go wrong once I get it sorted.

 

Joe