When did paint companies start issuing paint chip charts for autos?

[marcapra]

I was looking at paint chip charts for cars of various years.  I noticed the charts get real scarce when you try to go back pre-1936 or so.  When did the paint companies start making paint chip charts for auto manufacturers on a year by year basis?  Also, is giving a paint store a color chip from a chip chart a good way to get an original vintage paint color for your old car?  

[bryankazmer]

Giving a paint store an old color chip is NOT a very good way to get the accurate original color.  At best it is a way to get a starting point.  The chips were never intended to be fade free for decades.  Original paint masters, painted metal plates kept in cardboard  sleeves with the OEM info on the back, are a good basis, provided you do not rely on a spectrophotometer if it's metallic or pearlescent.  I'm not sure when these started being used, but they are newer.  Only companies involved in the original supply typically had these.

 

Old formulae are of even less use, as both available bases and pigments have changed.

[Xander Wildeisen]

My guess is as soon as a color other than black was offered. Paint chips/samples could be shown to customers. You should alway do a test sample on any color you pick. A test spray will be the cheapest part about your paint job. Skipping it, might turn out to be most most expensive mistake you make. If you are unhappy with the color choice. All paint samples/chips will fade and discolor over time.

[PFitz]

Dealers had paint chips as early as the late 1920's at least. I have some paint chips for 1930, 31, and 32. A friend has some for 28 and 29 Franklins.  The paint company - Acme White Lead and Color Works of Detroit MI. - has the name, number and amounts of the colors and tints used to mix each color printed on the back.

 

Don't go exactly by the chips unless you want your car to look as faded as the original paint would be after all these decades.

 

These chips (heavy paper cards) were stored indoors at a dealership. I had an all original 29 Victoria come into the shop. It had spent a good bit of its life outdoors in western NYS. One of the friend's paint chips was the body color of that 29. That chip was just as faded as the paint on the car. All the other chips have turned just as dull, too.

 

Paul

[Walt G]

On the larger paint chips that Paul shows if you carefully polish an area - not aggressively - you can bring back the lustre of the chip in question to a great extent not perfect but very close.  Chips were also in bound books about 1 inch thick and 5 x 7 inches. Many of these by Murphy ( not the coach builder the paint supplier) the ones in the bound book have much smaller chips - about 1/2 " x 2 inches. These because they are in a hard cover do not fade because of lack of exposure to light. The Acme ones shown can also be good for color although a bit dull ; I have a steel box that the Acme ones I have (about 300 + chips) came in and almost none of the color is faded to not give an accurate - or at least close enough - guide to mix a color. The ones I have also on the reverse list the year and make of car as seen here and a mixing code which of course is out of date by 80+ years.

To get a current color that is available you can look at color charts for European cars like Mercedes, Jaguar, etc. as they did not delve into the day glow, heavy metallic colors like the American car companies and the conservative pallet is what would have been seen on pre 1950 cars. The single page charts mentioned that show a lot of 1/2 x 2 inch samples on them are difficult if not impossible to use and mostly started to show up in the 1940s and then ran into post war era.

Auto paint supplies have a machine that they can scan and get a color match, as mentioned it is worth having a pint or quart mixed and paid for rather then order the gallons of color and find out "that ain't it". Looking at paint chips under fluorescent lights does not give you an accurate view of what a color is , has to be natural light or at least a "bulb" incandescent .

[TerryB]

I have this one dated 1921

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

4 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

My guess is as soon as a color other than black was offered. 

Early cars came in colors other than black.  For example,

from the AACA Library files is a small catalogue for the

Woods Electric, attributed to 1899.  Two-tone effects are

shown, and at least some models could be had in whatever

the buyer wanted:

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Terry Bond]

Paint color samples-teens.

 

[TerryB]

If you are going for authenticity, would you paint a car without the use of a spray system given that none existed when the car was built?  I always wondered how those non spray paint jobs would look.

[Shootey]

In the mid 1990’s I did paint research for my 1938 Buick. In those days DuPont still had automotive paint. I contacted a local DuPont dealer and the DuPont corporate people in Wilmington Delaware. It turned out the Dulux paint for my wheels was still in production. The DuPont folks were very helpful. 
 

I have recently tried a similar approach. DuPont, if it exists at all, doesn’t produce automotive paint. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

54 minutes ago, TerryB said:

If you are going for authenticity, would you paint a car without the use of a spray system given that none existed when the car was built?  I always wondered how those non spray paint jobs would look.

Terry, don't picture house paint and a brush!  From what

I understand, the paint jobs looked as good as when sprayed.

People could take as much pride in their vehicles then as now.

 

Here are excerpts from a first-hand account, speaking of 1897, 

which I reprinted for our regional newsletter:

 

"We were driving home from Church in the wagonette.  I had

five brothers and two sisters.  The wagonette held eight, including

Jimmie, my father's white-haired coachman...The vehicle was

painted black, striped in red, and on the side panels were gilt

and red decorative monograms of my father's initials....Jimmie

was very proud of a nice looking turn out--the bay horses were

curried and brushed, their tails and manes carefully combed, 

and their hoofs oiled.  The harness was polished, the nickel

trimmings shined to the utmost, nor was there a speck or a

scratch to be found on the carriage, running gear or wheels..."

[The 55er]

I don't know how far back the paint companies made chip charts for automotive manufacturers but this vintage Ditz-Lac book covers 1929-1936. It consists of a lot of color chips from number IM-1 Coolie Blue to IM-1674 Taupe-Phantom Gray (Metallic). All the different color chips have specific names. The color schedule pages are listed by make of car alphabetically from Auburn to Willys. You need to go into the car schedule pages by make & year, find the color by name and identifying IM-number and then refer to the chip in the chip section to see what the color looks like. This old book utilized a rather cumbersome procedure to find a specific color for a car. The later books were much easier to use where you just looked up the make of car by year (say, a 1940 Chevrolet) and all the chips of all the available colors, vehicle manufacturer's paint code, paint supplier's color number and even the mixing formulae from the time were right there in front of you on the same sheet. Incidentally, the paint prices in this book ranged from $1.30 a quart to $4.50-$5.00 a gallon. How times have changed!

[PFitz]

6 hours ago, Walt G said:

On the larger paint chips that Paul shows if you carefully polish an area - not aggressively - you can bring back the lustre of the chip in question to a great extent not perfect but very close.  Chips were also in bound books about 1 inch thick and 5 x 7 inches. Many of these by Murphy ( not the coach builder the paint supplier) the ones in the bound book have much smaller chips - about 1/2 " x 2 inches. These because they are in a hard cover do not fade because of lack of exposure to light. The Acme ones shown can also be good for color although a bit dull ; I have a steel box that the Acme ones I have (about 300 + chips) came in and almost none of the color is faded to not give an accurate - or at least close enough - guide to mix a color. The ones I have also on the reverse list the year and make of car as seen here and a mixing code which of course is out of date by 80+ years.

To get a current color that is available you can look at color charts for European cars like Mercedes, Jaguar, etc. as they did not delve into the day glow, heavy metallic colors like the American car companies and the conservative pallet is what would have been seen on pre 1950 cars. The single page charts mentioned that show a lot of 1/2 x 2 inch samples on them are difficult if not impossible to use and mostly started to show up in the 1940s and then ran into post war era.

Auto paint supplies have a machine that they can scan and get a color match, as mentioned it is worth having a pint or quart mixed and paid for rather then order the gallons of color and find out "that ain't it". Looking at paint chips under fluorescent lights does not give you an accurate view of what a color is , has to be natural light or at least a "bulb" incandescent .

Some of the colors have a lot of clear that the pigments are suspended in. That causes the colors to not only go dull, but it gives a yellowish tint. That 29 Victoria I mentioned had that problem, as did its paint chip. Both were badly yellowed to look like WWI era Army green because of the clear lacquer which yellows with age/exposer. When I removed the door handle escutcheons there was the original color protected from the elements. It was called Amazon Stone Gray. A very interesting light greenish gray with a candy apple-like quality from all the clear lacquer over the pigment. My first thought was what a find, then it struck me that it was going to not be easy to duplicate. However, the owner saved me the trouble. He wanted the car to be maroon. 😄

Edited July 1, 2022 by PFitz (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

6 hours ago, Shootey said:

In the mid 1990’s I did paint research for my 1938 Buick. In those days DuPont still had automotive paint. I contacted a local DuPont dealer and the DuPont corporate people in Wilmington Delaware. It turned out the Dulux paint for my wheels was still in production. The DuPont folks were very helpful. 
 

I have recently tried a similar approach. DuPont, if it exists at all, doesn’t produce automotive paint. 

 

Through mergers, purchases, etc, Dupont is now called Axalta.

 

Are DuPont and Axalta the same?

Through later mergers the company became DuPont Performance Coatings (DPC), part of the American DuPont chemical empire, and was rebranded as Axalta Coating Systems after being purchased by The Carlyle Group in 2013

[Rusty_OToole]

Brush painted surfaces cannot be told from spray painted if the same auto enamel is used, applied with a camel hair brush by a painter who knows his business. Morgan cars was still painting some of their cars by brush in the 1980s, I think it was the white ones.

You can't do metallic paints so easily by brush and of course spray painting is faster and easier so brush painting is seldom done anymore.

[Shootey]

I should had ended my contribution with history. I don’t know what the DuPont successor produces. My paint comfort zone is the 1990s and prior. DuPont, going  back to at least the ‘30s, had nitrocellulose lacquer, Duco and alkyd enamel, Dulux.  Duco was used for car bodies and Dulux for wheels. Duco was replaced by acrylic lacquer but Dulux was still being made in the 1990’s. That’s why I was able to order the Dulux I needed for my 1938 Buick wheels. 
 

For my 1990’s restoration I acquired some nitrocellulose lacquer for my 1938 Buick body. A gentlemen in Barstow, California had Ditzler nitrocellulose paint in original Buick ‘30’s colors. I purchased several gallons of Corot beige. I don’t know how long it had sat on a shelf but it worked just fine on my car although some so-called experts doubted that the shade was exactly right.  I don’t know if any nitrocellulose is still laying around on someone’s shelf. 

[Bryan G]

Body shops often have great resources at their fingertips, if they know where to look. I recall finding some very old colors were available from PPG or DuPont because someone had taken the time to match them in the newer paint systems and there was now an official formula. It amazed me sometimes some of the obscure colors that were in the database. Of course, those old solid colors aren't that difficult if you have something to go by. I've come up with some touch-up paint a couple times just by mixing a few shades of Rust Oleum.

[marcapra]

I painted my 50 Chrysler in Dulux in the 1980s in junior college.  Now, I'm going to paint my 48 DeSoto with a modern paint with a blended base of acetone and another solvent that are still allowed in California.  Otherwise the base would be water.  I am not choosing a metallic color although Chrysler was offering some metallic colors in the 40s.  Chrysler bodies as well as Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln bodies made by Briggs were painted in synthetic enamels and baked in ovens for a super glossy look.  I'm always amazed by the variety of names the auto makers came up with to name their colors, like Bombardier Blue, Seaplane Blue no. 3, Emperor Gold metallic, Bolero Red, etc.  The most difficult part is choosing the color, since that really gives the car its personality.  

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by marcapra (see edit history)

[Walt G]

Here are some of the examples in my collection on paint of the pre war era. As mentioned the hard bound smaller books have samples that are not faded at all. The larger Acme chips like PaulFitz showed for Franklin he has and I have that steel box full for all makes are slightly dull but can be brought back if carefully polished . These too were in an enclosed box since new and were rarely exposed to natural light.

Yes I have been collecting a lot of material for a very very long time and have wonderful friends who helped me add pieces to my collection to form a comprehensive collection of many assorted items so i could focus on my research and then pen stories about what I found 80+ years after it happened. Primary source material.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Walt G (see edit history)

[dibarlaw]

Here is a scanned page from a PPG Paint book. 8 1/2'X11' format over 180 pages published in 1923 entitled.... 

GLASS, PAINTS, VARNISHES AND BRUSHES 

    Their History Manufacture and Use

 The selection below indicate a general pallette of colors for refinishing and not necessesaraly close to what a car manufacturer actually offered. In the book the Patton's Auto Gloss as well as their specialty and house paint chip pages are separated by vellum sheets to keep from bleeding onto the next page. Fasinating book each time I go through it. Many application photos of process' applications, glass architectural decorating ideas, window displays and PPG product displays.

I also have a Du Pont Color chip pamphlet 3 hole punched to go into an automotive paint counter book

 Most popular refininsing colors... from the early 1950s. It gives close matches to some factory colors for overall refinishing jobs geared primaraly to used car dealers.

 I had found a good match for the Brewster Green for my 1925 Buick Standard color.

But the Cobalt Blue for my 1925 Master has been a bit frustrating. 1924 version of Cobalt Blue different from 1925 and than 1926 examples. The color on restored examples also vary widely. 

 Examples of a 1925-45 Master touring with mostly original (faded) paint with some touch up on hood and cowl.

Restored 1925-20 Master. I had tried to get the formula for this color from the restoration company but no luck so far.

This is what I had mixed up as a sample.

 

 

 

[Rusty_OToole]

20 hours ago, Shootey said:

I should had ended my contribution with history. I don’t know what the DuPont successor produces. My paint comfort zone is the 1990s and prior. DuPont, going  back to at least the ‘30s, had nitrocellulose lacquer, Duco and alkyd enamel, Dulux.  Duco was used for car bodies and Dulux for wheels. Duco was replaced by acrylic lacquer but Dulux was still being made in the 1990’s. That’s why I was able to order the Dulux I needed for my 1938 Buick wheels. 
 

For my 1990’s restoration I acquired some nitrocellulose lacquer for my 1938 Buick body. A gentlemen in Barstow, California had Ditzler nitrocellulose paint in original Buick ‘30’s colors. I purchased several gallons of Corot beige. I don’t know how long it had sat on a shelf but it worked just fine on my car although some so-called experts doubted that the shade was exactly right.  I don’t know if any nitrocellulose is still laying around on someone’s shelf. 

In 1959 bodyman Bill Hines built a custom car he called the Li'l Bat. He painted it with black nitrocellulose lacquer. Just a few years ago he recreated this car and painted it with a gallon of black lacquer he had on the shelf in his paint booth since 1959. I don't know how long the stuff will keep. I have used leftover auto acrylic enamel that must have been 20 years old or more. If the can is kept sealed and not frozen it will keep a long time. Sometimes even freezing won't hurt it.

[Shootey]

39 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

In 1959 bodyman Bill Hines built a custom car he called the Li'l Bat. He painted it with black nitrocellulose lacquer. Just a few years ago he recreated this car and painted it with a gallon of black lacquer he had on the shelf in his paint booth since 1959. I don't know how long the stuff will keep. I have used leftover auto acrylic enamel that must have been 20 years old or more. If the can is kept sealed and not frozen it will keep a long time. Sometimes even freezing won't hurt it.

I have a can of Bugatti Red, purchased in the 1990’s, never opened, Dulux as mentioned above for the wheels on my 1938 Buick Century. I will give it away to anyone who wants to pay for shipping. I tried to give it away earlier and was told by a member that it would not have survived intact. Who knows? I still haven’t opened it. 

[Walt G]

OK, my last contribution on color. This is from a late 1920s catalog of auto body tools, trim supplies, lacquer supplies, and auto body hardware issued by Abelles-Lewit Company on West 54th Street.

The catalog contents (over 100 huge pages) would be an outstanding subject for a story of what hardware ( from accessory windshields, to door jamb latches, interior trim and fabrics, roof fabrics ,door handles up to an including body hammers and air compressors) Everything is illustrated. But there is no room for it in an AACA publication . 

Here is what the one color page looks like that they had on available paint color. The catalog is not dated but my guesstimate is 1929.

[8E45E]

On 7/1/2022 at 7:03 PM, Rusty_OToole said:

Brush painted surfaces cannot be told from spray painted if the same auto enamel is used, applied with a camel hair brush by a painter who knows his business. Morgan cars was still painting some of their cars by brush in the 1980s, I think it was the white ones.

You can't do metallic paints so easily by brush and of course spray painting is faster and easier so brush painting is seldom done anymore.

Craftmaster in the UK still sells Coach Enamel, which is applied with a brush. Coach Enamel – Craftmaster Paints

 

Craig

[viv w]

I have an original Nash book showing tools and colors for 1926/7 with paint color samples.

[Rusty_OToole]

18 hours ago, Shootey said:

I have a can of Bugatti Red, purchased in the 1990’s, never opened, Dulux as mentioned above for the wheels on my 1938 Buick Century. I will give it away to anyone who wants to pay for shipping. I tried to give it away earlier and was told by a member that it would not have survived intact. Who knows? I still haven’t opened it. 

My first experience of using old, left over paint came when I bought 2 shelves of paint from the auction of a defunct Dodge dealer in the early 70s. All their leftover partly used quart cans of acrylic enamel for $5 bucks and the pint cans of acrylic lacquer for $2. I figured on throwing away half of it but I ended up with 120 quarts of paint for $7 and only threw away 5 or 6 cans. For a couple of years I was painting cars for $65 using this shop mix. If I had problems it wasn't the fault of the paint and eventually I learned how to paint a car.

I don't know how old the paint was, some had probably been on the shelf for 10 years when I bought it. I was still using it around the shop for painting air compressors, lawn mowers,  jack stands etc 15 years after I bought it. Gave away the last of it to a neighbor who used it for several more years. How long will paint last if it is in a sealed can? Who knows? In some cases the can was not that well sealed, I peeled the skin off the surface and used it anyway.

If I had some old cans of paint I would at least try to use them. What have you got to lose?

Edited July 3, 2022 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Borough Essex]

Re the chips fading issue, when we repainted my Hudson 20 years ago I took the paint chip book (faded) and the colour sales brochure (too bright maybe) to a paint mixer recommended to me and he did a great job mixing it. A couple of times since have had to have paint mixed for repairs and, with a good sample for them to work from, there were no problems doing an eye match. My car is a 30 footer so perhaps this is problematic for high end restorations.

[mrspeedyt]

some time ago i was shown a ‘official Ford color chart.’ you can guess the color. 

[Bryan G]

Dad had a cabinet full of paint from the 70s-80s which we finally got rid of in the 90s; mostly DuPont Lucite acrylic lacquer, with a bit of Dulux. I asked him about the latter and he had a very low opinion of it. I heard the old trick of warming it on a hot plate (carefully!) prior to spraying. In earlier years Dad would mix batches of similar colors; he would do all-overs for a used car dealer looking to spruce-up vehicles heading to auction. Pity the poor fella that ever had to match them! The later paints don't age so well as the old lacquer. I recall we used up a few quarts of leftover DuPont Centari (acrylic enamel) that had been on the shelf for a few years. It dried almost the instant it hit the car, with almost no shine.

[3macboys]

Back in the day here's how they kept track of the age of the paint.  This is the original paint booth of my shop which is a Chrysler dealership that was built in 1956.  The paint booth consists of cinderblock walls, an exterior ventilating fan, and two furnace filters in the overhead garage door along with explosion proof lights, which may or may not have mattered since the boiler room was to left of the door frame in the picture.  The paint rack ran down the one wall of the booth.