56Roadmaster Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 Always a topic for discussion. Painstaking restoration of wood frame bodies. Below is a link to a video "0How Packard Builds a Body" Near the final third of the video is some great footage of how fast the wood is sawn and machined en-mass with relatively simple jigs. Watch "How Packard Builds a Body Part 3" on YouTubehttps://youtu.be/dkxuZZlPjsI 10 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave39MD Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 Thanks, that was very interesting. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 Great video. Thanks. Pretty quick and easy with semi skilled labor when you're doing them by the thousands and you are all jigged and fixtured up. Doing one at a time by hand, not so much.............Bob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Str8-8-Dave Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 I noticed that guy running the band saw was cutting a lot faster than I do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthcranbrook Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 23 minutes ago, Str8-8-Dave said: I noticed that guy running the band saw was cutting a lot faster than I do... Maybe on piece work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 Thank you for sharing this. I am nearing completion of remaking nearly every wood piece for a touring car. When I spend an hour or more to make each piece, sometimes I'll try to imagine all of the jigs and fixtures that would have originally been used to make that part in seconds and more precisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 Very enjoyable video. That factory is an O.S.H.A. nightmare, I was getting nervous watching those cutters without any guards! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) The guy cutting pieces on a bandsaw was cutting blanks, which then went to a shaper workstation that used a fixture with a tracer template to cut the finish profile of the part. That shaper cutter was the size of a planer cutter head ! Edited January 2, 2022 by Oregon Desert model 45 edit (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3macboys Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, 46 woodie said: Very enjoyable video. That factory is an O.S.H.A. nightmare, I was getting nervous watching those cutters without any guards! I watch those videos and count fingers on the workers - they seem to have them all, unlike all but one of my shop teachers in school, including my drafting teacher! The only one that had all his fingers was an old school cabinet maker from Eastern Europe who made violins in his spare time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Roadmaster Posted January 5, 2022 Author Share Posted January 5, 2022 I think that most of the restorers today probably end up with a "better than factory" condition due to time, effort, and intent in recreating the wood parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Overall, as good or better than factory should be attainable. Without original patterns measurements, drawings and fixtures, I think that all we can do is get pretty close to original and call it good enough as far as the correct shape goes. In other aspects I think we can make up for it with better hardware, such as zinc coated steel wood screws, better glue, and often more effort spent to keep rot or wear areas from failing again in the next hundred years. In most situations I think that updates are good as long as they are used sparingly, are not obvious, and done with the intention of making those parts last longer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Roadmaster Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share Posted January 15, 2022 Jack lots to say there. I like it. I worked for a number of years on restorations, most not my own, but a lot involved wood replacement. I think you have made the point I was alluding to: That we often get caught in the vortex of what is perfectly, exactly, and indisputably original. You can be pretty sure all those jigs and fixtures of factories of yesterday were a compromise between "absolute perfection" and "fit for purpose" and production process. None of those jigs and fixtures, coupled with degree of skill of workmen made a perfect automobile, what they did do was make a repeatable product, for some expediture for a return, for some level of quality acceptable to the manufacturer, and customer. I might ad that has not changed to this day (I am in manufacturing) However, I do feel that what comes out restorations is the manifestation of indviduals' passions and drive for craftsmanship, unconstrained by a set level of compromise between manufacturing quality and profit. I think the restoration process and product is a tribute to the labor of love and skills that many share in preserving our motoring heritage. 👍🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 Remember that it was a different time and place when these cars were built. Working with wood wasn’t a “special skill” back then, the long history of the carriage and furniture trades meant that a LOT of men knew woodwork. Staffing a wood manufacturing plant of the size needed to build auto bodies would be nearly impossible. The first quarter of the 20th century, it was easy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/1/2022 at 4:20 PM, Str8-8-Dave said: I noticed that guy running the band saw was cutting a lot faster than I do... It’s recommended to use a 3 or4 tooth hook blade when cutting hardwood. It will cut faster but leave a rougher cut. A high quality disk and belt sander speeds up the finishing. I just purchased this double sided 48” horizontal belt sander to make my life easier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 The 3 tooth per inch hook blade is my favorite. The narrowest it comes is 1/2 inch, so that's what I get. That helps it turn tighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewOldWood Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Interesting video. Some of those parts look familiar.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewOldWood Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Those videos are running fast, they are not running those boards through that band saw as fast as it looks. And as far as I am concerned, OSHA is the nightmare. I have had too many encounters with OSHA inspectors to believe that their existance has anything at all to do with my safety. Restorations have their limits, obviously no one restoring a Packard today is going to be able to reproduce the original manufacturing process. There are cases where even if you could build a wood part exactly as it was done originally you would not be able to use it. This is a rear door from a Ford panel van. Originally the wood frame was completely assembled and then the sheet metal pieces were assembled over the wood frame. Removing the old wood intact without destroying the sheet metal was not possible so I had to find a way to assemble the wood pieces inside the sheet metal. Not exactly original, but the best I could do. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave39MD Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Very nice work NewOldWood! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB-Buff Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Pretty nice fixturing. I ended up slowing the video down to .75 speed and it was more realistic of the speed. Still may be a little fast. It was amazing to see the fixturing involved in doing that, it would be kind a hard to mess up when you have tooling like that. Very nice thank you for sharing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRA Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Excellent video. Thanks for sharing, 56roadmaster. Unfortunately I could not find the second part of it. It would be good to see the sheet metal dressing the wood frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) When using any kind of equipment, the trick is to understand the piece of equipment has one goal, that is to cut, break, maim, or otherwise destroy you. Once that is realized, and the proper respect for the purpose of the machinery established, it is very easy to spend a life time running all sorts of machinery and never get hurt. It is only those who believe they are smarter than the machine, that get fingers cut off, arms broken, etc. I once saw a picture of a man tangled up in a lathe. He believed he could run the lathe with loose fitting clothing and the lathe would not hurt him. He was wrong. Edited January 16, 2022 by AHa (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28 Chrysler Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 21 hours ago, AHa said: When using any kind of equipment, the trick is to understand the piece of equipment has one goal, that is to cut, break, maim, or otherwise destroy you. Once that is realized, and the proper respect for the purpose of the machinery established, it is very easy to spend a life time running all sorts of machinery and never get hurt. It is only those who believe they are smarter than the machine, that get fingers cut off, arms broken, etc. I once saw a picture of a man tangled up in a lathe. He believed he could run the lathe with loose fitting clothing and the lathe would not hurt him. He was wrong. I believe they lay in wait to take advantage of a situation. When working in a machine shop after high school a automatic vice malfunctioned while I was removing a part. It crushed the part but some how missed my thumb and index finger. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewOldWood Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 22 hours ago, AHa said: When using any kind of equipment, the trick is to understand the piece of equipment has one goal, that is to cut, break, maim, or otherwise destroy you. Once that is realized, and the proper respect for the purpose of the machinery established, it is very easy to spend a life time running all sorts of machinery and never get hurt. It is only those who believe they are smarter than the machine, that get fingers cut off, arms broken, etc. I once saw a picture of a man tangled up in a lathe. He believed he could run the lathe with loose fitting clothing and the lathe would not hurt him. He was wrong. A machine doesn't have a goal, but it doesn't have a conscience either. I have been doing custom woodwork professionally for over 35 years and have seen more than a few fingers removed or otherwise ground up, and eveytime it was due to temporary inattention. A woodcutting saw will take your finger off so fast it will be done before you even know it's happening, there is no time to react. I still have all ten of mine, my mantra is "if you can't touch the blade it cant cut you", and the instances where you have no choice but to put your digits close to a moving blade are exceedingly rare. On the other hand, one of the reasons I have no employees is because OSHA would have a field day in my shop, I don't have guards on anything. In my opinion anything that obstructs your view of the blade is a hazzard. The real safety is between your ears and if you don't have that one their has never been a guard made that will save you. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 I just purchased a Ritter double sided 6” x 132” horizontal belt sander. It’s sanding surfaces are 46” long on each side with one end having a 6” and 3” drum sander with its own adjustable table. One side table can be left at 90d and the other adjusted to any angle common on the work at the time. The large tables and large powerful belt traveling with the grain will allow for fast supported sanding of the pieces. This machine is a huge step up from the 14” disk, 6x36” combination sander I’ve been using. I am also purchasing this week a 36” Crescent 5hp bandsaw. This will allow for much faster cutting than what I’m capable of with my home type 14” delta band saw. My abilities to produce car body wood pieces will be greatly sped up because of the machines ability to handle the work easier. Of course this means , as NewOldWood stated, I will have to be certain to maintain undivided attention when using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 On 1/16/2022 at 11:36 AM, NewOldWood said: Interesting video. Some of those parts look familiar.... It all looks familiar. This is a 32’ olds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 After 43 years of doing automotive woodwork I am amazed I still have all my digits. Several close calls including a thumb broken by a router mishap but nothing serious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewOldWood Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 11 hours ago, chistech said: I just purchased a Ritter double sided 6” x 132” horizontal belt sander. It’s sanding surfaces are 46” long on each side with one end having a 6” and 3” drum sander with its own adjustable table. One side table can be left at 90d and the other adjusted to any angle common on the work at the time. The large tables and large powerful belt traveling with the grain will allow for fast supported sanding of the pieces. This machine is a huge step up from the 14” disk, 6x36” combination sander I’ve been using. I am also purchasing this week a 36” Crescent 5hp bandsaw. This will allow for much faster cutting than what I’m capable of with my home type 14” delta band saw. My abilities to produce car body wood pieces will be greatly sped up because of the machines ability to handle the work easier. Of course this means , as NewOldWood stated, I will have to be certain to maintain undivided attention when using them. Those big bandsaws are nice, the big table and extra throat depth make working on parts with a lot of shape much easier. While the big saw is certainly more imposing than the small one, the small one will take your finger off just as fast. The sander will be a good addition too, and although not as dangerous as a saw, I did once see a guy sand one of his fingers most of the way back to the first knuckle on a 20" disc sander! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewOldWood Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 1 hour ago, chistech said: It all looks familiar. This is a 32’ olds. Wood sills from similar year cars are all going to look somewhat alike. The first pictures I posted are from a packard and very close to some shown in the video. These are from a 41 Cadillac. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewOldWood Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 42 minutes ago, Restorer32 said: After 43 years of doing automotive woodwork I am amazed I still have all my digits. Several close calls including a thumb broken by a router mishap but nothing serious. When I was young I worked with a guy in his early 70s who had been a woodworker all his life, very talented and still very alert. One day he left the end of one of his fingers on the tablesaw. Later I asked him what happened and his response still runs through my head very often when I'm using a saw, " I just was not paying attention". He added that if you worked around these kind of tools long enough something like that was probably going to happen. I am not quite ready to hang it up just yet and doing my best to prove him wrong on that point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB-Buff Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 I’ve never owned a Packard or never done any research on Packard. Does anybody know what body company that is? Briggs, LeBaron, Maury etc. or did Packard do their own wood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Roadmaster Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share Posted January 25, 2022 Quite a bit of discussion here. Thanks for the good discussion and the folks presenting their handiwork👍👍 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Roadmaster Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share Posted January 25, 2022 This should also answer the question about Packard building their own bodies. The first description frame says so. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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