Tire age. What is too old when buying new tires?

[39mm]

What is the oldest production date you would accept when buying new tires?

 

How quickly do tires age if just being stored (not on the car) in a cool protected enviroment?

[Seafoam65]

Tires are not safe after 7 years of age regardless of how they are stored. The oldest date

code I would accept on new tires would be 6 months, or 2 months if it is a car I drive infrequently

where the tires wouldn't be worn out at 7 years.

[Turbinator]

4 minutes ago, Seafoam65 said:

drive infrequently

where the tires wouldn't be worn out at 7 years.

Gents, folks At Michelin Tires wrote five years and after tires would be inspected for safety. This is what I go by. There are numerous statements by different organizations addressing this subject. I like the Michelin method because I can remember to get them inspected every year after the fifth year. As they say, my experience and 2 cents….

Turbinator 

[kreed]

Agree completely - 7 years max. Here is my 66 GS with 15,000 original miles and tires that were 15 years old that were put on at 7,000 miles . On my way to show on interstate at 70 mph . Thank God I was in the right hand lane when the right front absolutely exploded making me swerve severely to the right but fortunately exactly at an exit off the interstate . If I had been in the passing lane and a semi beside me or another car ….. let’s just say the good Lord was looking down on me . Tore off the wheel rim molding ,damaged the paint on the fender and hood - $3500 later . Hagerty paid it all . Lesson learned the hard way .

Kreed

ROA 14549

[Matt Harwood]

I wouldn't accept tires more than a few months old--with what they cost, you're losing a significant portion of their usable life if they're already two or three years old. This tire had less than 500 miles on it, but was perhaps 10-12 years old. Exploded just sitting in a parking lot. The tread is not even worn a little and there were no visible signs of age.

 

 

Don't take chances with tires.

[RivNut]

42 minutes ago, Turbinator said:

Gents, folks At Michelin Tires wrote five years and after tires would be inspected for safety. This is what I go by. There are numerous statements by different organizations addressing this subject. I like the Michelin method because I can remember to get them inspected every year after the fifth year. As they say, my experience and 2 cents….

Turbinator 

How does s the technician get inside the rubber to inspect for rubber deterioration?  I have a perfectly “good looking” set of 205/70r15 tires off my 90 Riviera; lots of tread and pliable but they were 7 years old so I replaced them.   I’ve read too many horror stories about tires disintegrating and lives being lost because of old tires.  Main reason to be cautious of the reproduction tires (Coker, etc.) They are not required to be dated so you never know how long they’ve been sitting on the shelf. 

[Turbinator]

Ed, Im telling what I read about Michelin recommendation regarding inspection. Your question about how the technician gets inside the rubber is funny. I’m sure you know the tech cannot get inside the rubber. 
How Michelin inspects the tire is entirely a mystery to me. I’m thinking Michelin would not make something up and put it in writing.

Im certain your comment was meant to be humorous. I know you well enough to know you wouldn’t write something that was facetious. 
Continental Tire inspects tires after 5 years for safety as well.

Turbinator

[Bloo]

All this obsession over date codes is a recent thing, driven by the Internet for who knows who's benefit. It certainly is not in our best interest to promote it, as supplies of authentic tires are spotty at best. It may not be possible to buy correct tires with a current date code. A tire needs to hold air on the show field even if it won't be driven on the street. More and more tire repair facilities now have a 7 year cutoff, or some similar policy and will refuse to work on a tire based on it's date code. I often see people telling themselves in here that bias ply tires don't rot nearly so fast. I doubt you could convince the guy at the tire shop of that, even if it were true. He has probably never seen a bias ply tire. That is not a slam against the tire guy. He is expected to be an expert in the things he actually works on, and bias ply tires are not one of those things. They were trailing edge technology 40 years ago. The best thing you could do at this point is figure out which tire shop in your area doesn't look too close and give them all your business. You never know when you might need them. I can see the day not too long in the future when every enthusiast will have to find room for an old Coats 40-40a and an enormous service station sized air compressor. That is not a trivial commitment.

 

Now it may sound like I am advocating driving around on old rotten tires. I am not. I am getting a little nervous at the 7 year point. Some common sense should be applied here. Before the date code obsession nobody I know would have advocated driving around on 20 year old tires or even 15. Still storage conditions make a huge difference and that has not changed. The overwhelming majority of tire failures are due to under-inflation and overloading. That has not changed either and is not likely to change. Under-inflation and overloading are almost exactly the same thing because the maximum load a tire can carry is tied directly to it's pressure.

 

At the end of the day, people are lazy and checking your tire pressure all the time is inconvenient and almost no one does it. I do it, but not as often as I probably should, so I am guilty too. With this new date code obsession, people have a code they can check once and call it done. They don't have to think about it anymore. People love that and tell all their friends. Tires will continue to catastrophically fail for the same reasons they always did. Under-inflation and overloading will remain stuck firmly at the top of the list without even a close runner up.

 

TPMS systems, on the other hand, might actually do some good.

 

[RivNut]

Driving your car on and off the trailer and 5 mph to and from the show field is probably okay.  You might be lucky and not have any problems but you have to weigh the consequences.

[Barney Eaton]

I don't think you can made a flat statement about "when to replace tires"  too many variables in quality of both material and workmanship.   Heat also needs to be factored into the discussion. 

Higher ambient temps will heat the tires and factor into the failure rates.   

Above are testimonials on failures,  but what was the brand, age, and road conditions?    An extreme example was in Road and Track a few years back where they pulled a late '40's Indy race car out of the

Speedway museum and ran it around the track at speeds around 100 on old original racing tires. ..... with no tire failure. 

Virtually all of the information being published is from tire makers...... they want you to replace tires...... especially before they fail and they might get sued. 

Common sense should be the major decision maker. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Barney Eaton (see edit history)

[kegart]

After Ken first posted pictures of his tire failure I checked the dates on my 1961 pickup. They were 12 years old so I replaced them. The new tires ride smooth and peace of mind with new tires was worth it. 

 

Kevin 

 

[Turbinator]

8 hours ago, Barney Eaton said:

Common sense should be the major decision maker. 

Sir, I believe you are 100% correct

 regarding common sense. I scanned an article full of pictures of what to look for when you are inspecting your tires. For those of us not keen on tire handling and inspection I believe your tire shop would inspect your tires whenever you want.

Turbinator

[Turbinator]

5 hours ago, kegart said:

The new tires ride smooth and peace of mind with new tires was worth it. 

Kevin, 20 plus years ago I raced bicycles at the recreational level. You could easily get killed with a blow out. There were 2 types of bike tires- clinchers and tubular tires. I was on a ride and a bike built for two came haulin ass past me going down a hill.

The rear tire blew out and shattered the tire rim. The cyclists handled the blow out safely. My next stop I put on 2 new Kevlar clinchers.  Safety first.

Turbinator

[RivNut]

I had a set of Michelin Pilots on my 63, which at the time was sitting in my garage. Got home from work one day and the right front had exploded.  Hadn't driven the car for 3-4 years and the tread still looked decent.  Should have taken a picture of it.  Scared the Beejeezus out of me when I saw it.  Wouldn't even roll when we pulled the car out of the garage to change it (and the other three which still looked good and were holding air) Loaded up the Michelins in my Jeep and went to the tire store.

[Turbinator]

5 hours ago, RivNut said:

Loaded up the Michelins in my Jeep and went to the tire store.

Ed, My Dad said during WWII TIRES were hard to get. If a tire blew out they would save the tire to use as a boot for another blown tires They would fix the tube boot the tire pump it up and keep on going. MThey were farm trucks that got the boot. True story.

Turbinator

[60FlatTop]

14 hours ago, Barney Eaton said:

Above are testimonials on failures,

My '60 Buick is due for a new set of tires. I bought them in 2012. The first set served me from 2001-'12. On that car I drive about 1200 miles per year, less since the plague hit. Around five years ago I ran across New York State on the thruway to a meet where John DeFiore was checking out my biased tires in the parking lot. Although I am still using the tires I wouldn't consider a drive like that today. I wouldn't even take the hour drive to Buffalo at 70 MPH. I would take the 50 MPH route without concern.

 

I grew up in a tire shop. Old tires will go a long way. We used to regroove casings that had some meat on them. And if they were cracked we used heavier paint to pretty them up. We had regular customers buying those tires. A report of a blowout was not common but we did get them. We also vulcanized tires and I was good at reviving truck runflats. My Grandfather was a big one for high air pressures. He said "We put them together with heat and pressure. That's how they come apart. Pump them up so they run cool." Higher air pressures will also cause objects to bounce away rather than imbed it a tire.

 

Around the turn of the century my '64 Riviera gradually fell into disuse. My wife became increasingly uncomfortable riding in it and favored the taller cloth seat Electra. The tires on the Riviera were purchased in 1994. They creak when I move it. I put a pair of "roll arounds" on the front when I did the front brakes and haven't done the rears yet, maybe this winter. I make the 2 mile annual drive for the state inspection to keep the license current, but I don't expect some cataclysmic event on that drive through the village.

 

I have put less than 4,000 miles on my '86 Park Ave convertible since I put the new tires on it in 20013, there's seven years. No urgency or lack of confidence there, either.

 

Like Barney writes, each car and owner has its own set of circumstances Guidelines but no hard rules.

 

Writing and thinking about this makes me think. How many would agree that "Does this look bad?" is the most common rhetorical question asked?

[EmTee]

In addition to calendar age, the driver needs to pay attention to what the car (and tires) are 'saying' as it is driven.  A mild 'bump-bump' from tires on a car that has been parked for a week or more that goes away in a mile or two of driving is very different than a bump or shake that develops as the tires heat-up.  As Bernie says above, speed is also a critical factor.  The force trying to tear the tire apart increases as the square of velocity.  So, the stress at 70 mph is basically twice as much as it is at 50 mph.  Pay attention to what your car is telling you and investigate symptoms that deviate from 'normal'...

[Turbinator]

19 hours ago, EmTee said:

Pay attention to what your car is telling you and investigate symptoms that deviate from 'normal'...

EmTee, I'm speculating most of us crawl around the car looking for something to fix under the guise of inspection. I've not had blow outs that have not put me in a grave situation while getting to a safe place off the road. I think inspecting tires all the time is a good habit to have. I drive fast on the interstate highways. I've invested more time and money trying to make the 63 Riviera reliable and safe for higher highway speeds.

I'm changing the tires when it I see fit for safety. I have two sets of four tires for. my 63 I alternate. One set of tires is the 7.10 R 15 Radial bias look and the other set is a more modern set of Toyo 220/ 70 15. I drive the car more frequently and raised my mileage coverage with my insurance company. I'm the first guy to vote for safety on any activity when people are involved with machines that can hurt and or kill you.

My personal stance right now is if my tires look iffy and I can't decide I'll go to the tire shop I always go to and ask the gents there to give me a professional inspection. 

Turbinator

 

 

[KRmanr]

On 7/29/2021 at 4:03 PM, Turbinator said:

Ed, Im telling what I read about Michelin recommendation regarding inspection. Your question about how the technician gets inside the rubber is funny. I’m sure you know the tech cannot get inside the rubber. 
How Michelin inspects the tire is entirely a mystery to me. I’m thinking Michelin would not make something up and put it in writing.

Im certain your comment was meant to be humorous. I know you well enough to know you wouldn’t write something that was facetious. 
Continental Tire inspects tires after 5 years for safety as well.

Turbinator

What then does Michelin's recommendation regarding inspection "five years and after tires would be inspected for safety" really mean? 

I believe Ed's point is that Michelin's recommendation is completely useless as is; without clarifying, detailed inspection criteria it is an open ended guess left up to each individual tire technician performing the inspections. Note, deterioration of tire rubber isn't necessarily visible to the human eyeball.

[KRmanr]

This post makes me realize just how very lucky I've been in the past driving on very old tires.  I drove from DFW to Overland Park, Kansas in 2018 at 70-75 MPH on tires >12 years old, and I made it both ways, thankfully!   I'm now riding on a new set of 235/75R 15's so I rest easier now, plus that fractionally larger size reduces my Hwy RPM's by approximately 150+/- at 70 MPH.

[Turbinator]

4 hours ago, KRmanr said:

five years and after tires would be inspected for safety" really mean? 

Sir,Michelin has on their website established criteria for tire safety. Michelin shows the customer what to look for for their own safety. Ifacustomerstill has their tires after 5 years Michelin recommends the tires be inspected by one of their technicians. Many states have annual or semiannual inspection of motor vehicles for driver safety. I would think the inspector would check the tires for safety.

I’ll have my tires inspected by a professional after the tires are five years old. In the meantime I’ll keep a sharp eye out for any abnormalities in my tires.

[Y-JobFan]

People often look at the sidewall for deterioration but often the cracks appear down in the tread itself, I have seen with my own eyes on more than one occasion tires on show cars that have been dressed for years and the sidewalls look brand new but there were cracks down in between the tread that would be catastrophic if driven.    I remember one trip home in a 79 Riv I bought that had 13K original miles, had never sat out overnight or driven in the rain, this would have been around 2010, the tires appeared perfect even in the treads, by the time I got it home (3 hour drive) the car was bouncing like a carnival ride  and all 4 tires were ready to go.  I pushed the limit in the past but that ended it.  Another thing people often ignore is the spare tire, I always change that out as well.  The latest one I changed was in my 90 Reatta I have had a couple years, it was terribly dry rotted, those tires sit in there for decades in heat if outside or from the exhaust and road heat while driving and get baked.  A few hundred dollars for good tires is pretty cheap protection against killing someone 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Y-JobFan (see edit history)

[gungeey]

A project  is at it's last steps to road ready, ...since the tires were 20 years old got 4 new ones even though by eye the 20 year old ones looked fine on the outside. Dismounted they looked fine on the inside, too. Was so tempted to just put the old ones back on again.

New tire sidewalls are so thin now...I can feel my finger through the rubber regardless of brand michelin pirelli, continental all the same.

 

Ya just don't know. I will say this, apparantly there's not only a chip shortage for cars there's a RUBBER SHORTAGE right around the corner. Steve

[RivNut]

I would have to ask any Michelin technician just what kind of training he went through, other than OJT, to become a “professional.” Just putting on his company supplied shirt? Most tire jockeys I know are taught by the guy who started two weeks before him.  I bought a new set of Cooper tires for my ‘90 a year ago.  I continue taking my ‘94 Roadmaster to the same Discount Tire Store because they can’t seem to get all four tires balanced correctly at the same time.  They sell Michelin tires as well as numerous other brands.  I have a pretty good memory for names and faces but have never seen the same tech there any time I’ve been in there. So if I bought Michelin’s there, would one of these 3 week wonders be considered the “Michelin professional.”  I trust my capabilities to do research much more than I would trust one of these guys.

[kegart]

There is a reason date codes were mandated. I think due to the changes in rubber compounds to get higher mileage,  we don't see the deterioration  for age like we use to.

 

Kevin 

[60FlatTop]

I think Michelin provides techs with a company thong. But that that's not a CYA thing.

[Pat Curran]

15 hours ago, gungeey said:

A project  is at it's last steps to road ready, ...since the tires were 20 years old got 4 new ones even though by eye the 20 year old ones looked fine on the outside. Dismounted they looked fine on the inside, too. Was so tempted to just put the old ones back on again.

New tire sidewalls are so thin now...I can feel my finger through the rubber regardless of brand michelin pirelli, continental all the same.

 

Ya just don't know. I will say this, apparantly there's not only a chip shortage for cars there's a RUBBER SHORTAGE right around the corner. Steve

I just put a set of tires on my 2017 Regal GS a couple of weeks ago and I have been doing business with the owner of this store for a number of years now.  He asked me how the tires were on my other cars and if I needed some, I should get them now.  He has been told to expect a shortage next year and he was not trying to make an extra buck.

 

I think the rubber compound formulas have evolved over the years but I agree with Steve, they aren't as good as they used to be.  The sidewalls on my GMC Sierra were dry rotted in 4 years time.  Now in comparison, I have a set of Michelins on my 1971 Monte Carlo that have been on the car since 1977!  (I am expecting comments any time now).  There are no signs of dry rot inside or outside the tires and no flat spots at all.  They ride as good as the day I put them on.  Now granted, I don't go 80 miles an hour down the highway with them even though the big block is begging for more throttle, but for the occasional local cruise night or cars N' coffee, they seem to work well.  If I used the car more often I would definitely replace the tires but I doubt I could get the same quality.

 

[Turbinator]

On 8/5/2021 at 11:47 PM, RivNut said:

.  I continue taking my ‘94 Roadmaster to the same Discount Tire Store because they can’t seem to get all four tires balanced correctly at the same time.

Ed, I have an unusual tire shop I’ve bought tires since 2007. The gent that does the front end alignment has been there for 30 years. The owner, Frank, just retired and turned management over to one of his long time employees. I get a new calendar every year in the mail from Frank. Frank gets a new CD recording from me every year.

Most industries have training programs for their customers and employees. You have to know your supplier and their capabilities. After a service providers fails with product or service I take my lumps and move on.

In Maryland tires are included on the inspection of autos, etc.by Licensed shop individuals. I would suppose the State of Maryland would see to it the inspector knows something about tires. Different States have different regulations for vehicle safety.

Turbinator

[Turbinator]

On 8/6/2021 at 2:10 PM, Pat Curran said:

hink the rubber compound formulas have evolved over the years but I agree with Steve, they aren't as good as they used to be.

Pat, my initial thoughts are to agree the rubber in tires is not what it once was. I’m not going to do a research paper on the topic because it is not necessary. It seems not much today is as good as it once was. The radial tire has come a long way since my Dad and GrandDad would argue who had the best recap tires. I would suppose today many of our tires are made off shore. Ive been told by my nephew who works in R&D for a battery company off shore battery makers give you exactly what is specified and nothing more. Could be rubber is ok but our specs could be stronger?

Turbinator

 

[Turbinator]

On 8/6/2021 at 10:03 AM, kegart said:

we don't see the deterioration  for age like we use to.

 

Kev, I gave it a second thought and came up with tire manufacturers are given weaker specs with senior management thinking their rubber is stronger and better not so much rubber has to go in the tire. So, the offshore tire maker short changes  heavier specs. I would agree the rubber doesn’t seem to be what it once was. Like me I’m not as good as I once was but good once as I ever was.

 

[protrash63]

Cant over stress how important tires are to the vehicle. You arent going anywhere without them. In the Phoenix area when summer starts rolling in and we are hitting 100*s the freeways are littered with blowouts. I see this every year. My .02

[Turbinator]

For what is worth….Consumer Reports Sept 2021 has an article on tire safety entitled “Danger on Wheels” the RV tires you must avoid. The piece we might be interested in ( if we haven’t already beat it to death) is how old is too old? Page 59 item #4

” Regardless of how much wear or use they have, Consumer Reports recommends replacing tires at 10 years old from date of manufacture, or sooner if specified in the vehicles owner’s manual.” Of course, this article is about RV tires and that may be unimportant with regard to car tires.

Turbinator 

[Seafoam65]

Anybody heard of an old tire exploding just sitting in the garage and not being driven on?

The reason I ask is I just bought a 1995 Corvette Indy Pace Car convertible with 1,000 miles

on the odometer and 26 year old Goodyear Eagle GSC tires.  I'm going to show the car in Top

Flight judging in the NCRS in October and I get about twenty points for having the original tires.

I bought an extra set of wheels and put new Michelins on them for use when driving the car and 

I'm planning to use the original tires in point judging for a couple of years. They would only be driven

on and off a trailer. Anybody think I'm taking a chance on doing this, the more I think about it the more concerned I get.

If  one were to explode and destroy a fender on this perfect original car it would be a disaster of epic proportions....thoughts please.......

[RivNut]

I had a Michelin Pilot BLOW big time on the right front of my 63.  I had not driven the car for four years, built a new house and moved the 63 into the #3 garage.  One day about three years later KAPLOOIE. biggest hole I’ve ever seen in a tire.  Hard as hell to pull the car out of the garage on a tire with shredded rubber on it.  The guys at the tire store charged me a premium to remove that tire.  They apparently had to do it by hand rather than with their machine. 

[Turbinator]

9 hours ago, Seafoam65 said:

thoughts please.......

Winston, Ive never faulted a man for being safe. Protecting your rare collection of automobiles is of paramount consideration.

in the instance of your Corvette protection regarding tires Michelin has the Airless tires UPTIS. 100 % puncture proof. Explosion and punctures are non existent with the Michelin Airless Tires. Tote the original tires along to the show to be changed out once the Vette is settled for show. Of course, use Michelin Airless for storage and transport. Then for a casual drive use a third set as you mentioned. You’ll need a three ton hydraulic Jack, Jack stands, chocks, and battery powered impact gun when you get to the show. A little intense activity, but safe by any means.

Turbinator

[RivNut]

Winston has plenty of room in the trailer which he uses to tow his show cars to meets in.  No problem for him. 

[gungeey]

12 hours ago, Turbinator said:

Winston, Ive never faulted a man for being safe. Protecting your rare collection of automobiles is of paramount consideration.

in the instance of your Corvette protection regarding tires Michelin has the Airless tires UPTIS. 100 % puncture proof. Explosion and punctures are non existent with the Michelin Airless Tires. Tote the original tires along to the show to be changed out once the Vette is settled for show. Of course, use Michelin Airless for storage and transport. Then for a casual drive use a third set as you mentioned. You’ll need a three ton hydraulic Jack, Jack stands, chocks, and battery powered impact gun when you get to the show. A little intense activity, but safe by any means.

Turbinator

 

Those solid rubber tires are quite heavy. I prefer to fill the original tires with exactly 2/3rds a can of family size expandable foam.  The air pressure malady is resolved, the tires hold the weight of the vehicle and the judges are none the wiser. Just make sure to not lose the correct valve stem caps in the process.

[Turbinator]

On 8/14/2021 at 11:12 AM, RivNut said:

Winston has plenty of room in the trailer which he uses to tow his show cars to meets in.  No problem for him. 

Ed, I was thinking about buying a covered dual car hauler to start storing my collection of treasure. Don’t know if I’d haul any vehicles, but the trailer would be a good place to store stuff. Between my outdoor power equipment and car hobby stuff starts to pile up! Pretty soon I’ll have to get rental space to store my treasure. My wife says I have too much clutter on the property. I’m in the woods so I do have some hiding places.🤓

[RivNut]

Sounds like a deal to me.  Think about one of those steel shipping containers.  Set it back a ways and paint it camouflage.

[arnulfo de l.a.]

That is COOL! ^^^^