Computers for AACA people

[padgett]

In response to Apple content. While as long as you don't need to do much, an Apple is very good at making money for the company.

 

Was talking about the technophobes I know (several). Nothing wrong with Apple products just desktop computer I built last year (3 GHz four core CPU, 8 GB memory, 500 GB Flash drive, Gigabit Ethernet, multi-output video cost about $150) is running KALI to monitor my networks is a bit more cost-effective.

 

Have had a number of Apple products starting with an SE30 but current range are using Intel like every one else and want a touch scream ? Fahgedaboudit.

 

That said I have a MacBook and an iPad just to be able to help friends & run facetime but while the MacBook is capable of the latest OS, Apple refuses to update it, they consider memory (no SD capability in an iPhone, I have 128GB in my Samsung - needed to hold over 700 LPs ) and the OS to be profit centers.

 

Meanwhile my main desktop was begun in 1989 and has just growed like Topsy & now running the latest Win 10 20H2.

 

So think that Apple makes fine devices, quality has never been an issue. It is just their business model I find too limiting/expensive.

 

ps OB AACA - desktop also supports full reprogramming capability (C.A.T.S. and Moates software, Tektronix PROM programmer) for GM ALDL (all over 25 years old now) and Tech2Win for later model GM cars. Have Torque Pro on my Samsung. Wanna try that with an Apple ?  '93 GTP dash shown on Windows 10.

 

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

34 minutes ago, padgett said:

Was talking about the technophobes I know... 

 

I appreciate your computer expertise, Padgett.

I'm sure it comes in handy in many applications.

 

Those who don't use a particular product, though,

I wouldn't call "-phobes."  That means someone is

afraid of something;  but it's far more likely he merely

chooses not to adopt it, or appreciates something else.

If I don't want a touch-screen in my car, repair-prone

and complicated to use while driving, for example,

I'm not fearful of them.  If I choose an antique Buick

over an antique Ford, I'm not a Fordophobe!

[Peter Gariepy]

Like you I'm "technical". We differ in opinion on whats the best computer or mobile platform based upon what you've written.  Just like people differ in opinion on whats the best car to own.

 

For those not so "technical" the question of whats the best device is less complicated.  In the content of this forum the question is:

Whats the best device to use this forum?

Picking a computer or mobile device is a personal decision, just like a car.  Budget, features, service, availability and ego all variables. The forum software is designed to support all popular desktop and mobile devices and browsers. Therefore, the best choice of the device chosen to browse this forum is totally up to user.  

 

The most common device debate:

• Mac vs Windows (or Linux)
• Iphone vs Android (or Microsoft)

Most people consider their computer device an appliance.  Buy it and use it.  Throw it away and get another after its useful life is over.  Because we are car guys we sometimes consider "modifying or upgrading" our devices. Additional ram and storage are the most popular additions.  Some (like Padgett) have a DIY approach to their computer choices including upgradeable computer chassis that allows CPU/GPU/Storage/Power/Ports etc for additional function and performance. The extreme vast majority stick with the appliance approach. 

 

Real Life Statistics
55% of forum users use a mobile device (phone or pad).  Approx. 50% Apple equipment, 50% Android.

45% of forum users use a desktop device (including laptops).  Approx 25% Mac, 75% Windows.

 

 

 

[joe_padavano]

I've never owned an Apple product and don't plan to, but not everyone needs or wants a Top Fuel car or a McLaren F1. I see this a lot in automotive forums - you MUST have high compression, forged pistons, and a radical cam. No, you really don't. There are a lot of people who only want a comfortable cruiser. Why does one need to be "right" and the rest get panned? If speed and cost were the only considerations, we'd all have LS swaps.

 

I'll never own one of those, either...

[JamesR]

I probably have what some would call a phobia about digital stuff. I don't think it's a phobia about digital stuff so much as a phobia about wasting significant portions of my life by dwelling on things I don't care about.

 

When I had English motorcycles some of my English motorcycle friends would accuse modern or Japanese  bike lovers of being un-mechanically inclined. In truth, they probably wanted to spend more time riding and less time wrenching. I think the popular term is "user friendly." That's what I demand of digital technology, and if it can't be that, I live without it.

[padgett]

Agree, I know A Lot of "senior citizens" and most of them want nothing to do with anything more complicated than Facetime with children, grand children, great grandchildren,etc and many admit to being technophobes. Many were born before the baby boomers. Was not generalizing more than "many friends over 70".

 

Peter makes a good generalization  for most people. OTOH  grew up with computers (have a copy of PC-DOS 1.0 that has no "delete" command and like keyboards with function keys on the left. Again spent most of my career making computers do things they were not supposed to (anyone remember Mil-Std-1750A: the coprocessor in search of a processor) so agree I think differently than most.

 

And on the gripping hand if you want to be able to understand computers and cars (including LS swaps) it is best to be able to use computers that can reprogram/tune a car. Just Is. And not something Apples can do easily.

[Walt G]

What I can live without is a lot of abbreviations for computer jargon/lingo that many are comfortable with and I believe to the discomfort of the rest of us. I stop reading what people say when it gets loaded down with abbreviations to save the person sending the comment time, or perhaps wanting to show everyone here how technically smart and superior they are over the rest of us?!! I think abbreviations are fine : AACA, PAS (Pierce Arrow Society),  ; GM is fine I know what that is, but as a researcher and author if I wrote my stories in abbreviations would anyone really enjoy reading them ? I know I would not. I think and Editor or Publisher would no longer want anything I wrote either. I can guess some of you are now thinking I am a Fogey of advanced years , well sort of, but my long career teaching art would never let me teach kids how to make some art work if I did it all with abbreviations. I still hand draw things using a pencil, with an eraser , and do it on a piece of paper directly not via a computer screen.

[John348]

I am trying to figure out what this topic has to do with antique cars, 

[padgett]

All of the GM ALDL (assembly line data link) cars 1981-1994 that are now "antiques" had multiple computers. Repair and restoration as original requires an ability to talk to them. My era Cadillacs and Buicks had built in scan tools.

 

Even back in the 70s was using the GMI computer to design racing suspensions for my Corvette. Makes understanding geometry and specs much easier.

 

Many service and parts manuals re now on CD (are searchable and take up much less space - keep some on my cell phone). This includes my '70 GTO.

 

True for pre-1981 cars with the proper electronic tools (timing light, dwell meter, distributor tester) you do not need a digital computer, just makes my life a lot easier.

[mike6024]

I have a Lenovo Thinkpad T420, refurbished, "Windows 10 Pro" which is different then Windows 10 Home. Only cost me $217 plus tax from the now defunct Fry's Electronics

 

 

https://www.pcliquidations.com/p82294-lenovo-thinkpad-t420-14

 

It works great for Zoom BTW. It has the camera, microphone, and speakers built in.

You can connect a big VGA monitor if you like. The screen size I think is 15.4 inch on the laptop.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[padgett]

I used to visit Fry's in Sunnyvale quite often, bought my first digital camera (Kodak Digital Science 20) there. Sad it is gone.

 

ps Win 10 pro works best with at least 6GB (8 is better) of DRAM. 4GB does a lot of swapping.  2Gb fagedaboudit. At least it has a SSD.

[carbking]

There are 10 types of computer folks.

 

Those that understand binary

Those who do not

 

 

Jon.

[hidden_hunter]

2 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

Real Life Statistics
55% of forum users use a mobile device (phone or pad).  Approx. 50% Apple equipment, 50% Android.

45% of forum users use a desktop device (including laptops).  Approx 25% Mac, 75% Windows.

 

I work on a very large site that is used by all demographics and we see fairly similar split with slightly higher mobile usage but apple products dominate the stats in mobile (very low in desktop though but corporate devices would skew it) - wonder if it's a country or demographic thing

[padgett]

Jon: real computer people think in hex.

 

Made myself quite unpopular with all of the pre-millenium computer disaster egg-spurts by saying "Computers do not think in decimal"

[carbking]

Padgett - I love hex. Before my last birthday I was still in my 40's. 

 

Jon.

Edited April 8, 2021 by carbking (see edit history)

[padgett]

DEC PDP8s used octal: 113.

[carbking]

Awk - please don't remind me of octal. My place of employment about 45 years ago used a Burroughs mainframe, with Datapoint intelligent terminals scattered about the state. NO INTERFACE FROM DATAPOINT TO BURROUGHS! But there was a Burroughs/IBM interface that generally worked and a Datapoint/IBM interface. The B/I interface would not transfer reports. Had to write a conversion from Burroughs hex through IBM hex to Datapoint octal. Still cringe when I remember.

 

And you are a year older than I, I must respect my elders!

 

Let's return to cars

 

Jon

Edited April 8, 2021 by carbking (see edit history)

[padgett]

My most used software I considered a throwaway. An EBCDIC  to ASCII converter (IBM considered EBCDIC proprietary for a long time but I had friends at Watson).

and for them that don't like acronyms, extended binary-coded decimal interchange code & American Standard Code for Information Interchange. For some reason IBM never liked hex before the Boca Raton (mouth of the rat) plant.

[Peter Gariepy]

I have no need for them (thats what the dealership is for) 😃

... but only took me 10sec to find that there are vehicle diagnostics tools for Mac as well as Windows.

 

https://archer-soft.com/blog/top-6-car-diagnostic-software-windows-and-mac

https://tablevisions.weebly.com/free-ecu-tuning-software-for-mac.html

https://www.obdadvisor.com/best-car-tuning-software/

 

Not educated enough to know whats good or bad, but Mac isnt out of the game for engine tuning and diagnostics at first glance.

 

[Ronnie]

57 minutes ago, carbking said:

There are 10 types of computer folks.

 

Those that understand binary

Those who do not

 

 

1010-0100 on that.

[padgett]

I agree there are tools for the Mac just be aware there is a lot more than just OBD-II monitoring and it takes deep study to determine real capabilities. Two things to look for:

Ability to run/record a $06 test.

Ability to monitor/reset the ABS/SRS module

 

For example many scanners can read top level codes but to read the in depth ones takes more than just ODB-II. In general good scanners start at about a Benjamin.

 

Personally for ODB-II cars I use Torque Pro on my cell phone, an Autel Diaglink with GM, Benz, and Chrysler modules, and Tech2Win on a Win 10 laptop.

 

[Walt G]

2 hours ago, John348 said:

I am trying to figure out what this topic has to do with antique cars, 

OK can someone answer what John has stated, it has me wondering as well.

[1912Staver]

4 hours ago, JamesR said:

I probably have what some would call a phobia about digital stuff. I don't think it's a phobia about digital stuff so much as a phobia about wasting significant portions of my life by dwelling on things I don't care about.

 

When I had English motorcycles some of my English motorcycle friends would accuse modern or Japanese  bike lovers of being un-mechanically inclined. In truth, they probably wanted to spend more time riding and less time wrenching. I think the popular term is "user friendly." That's what I demand of digital technology, and if it can't be that, I live without it.

 

Regarding motorcycles. British bikes are pretty simple machines. Simple enough that a only slightly mechanically inclined owner , using a basic manual can maintain and repair one almost indefinitely. Even the owners handbook will deal with 80% or more of the machine. And a slightly more in depth factory or Clymer manual will cover everything.

 Japanese bikes are in many cases a lot more dependent on bike shop mechanics.  Bigger displacement street performance and hi way touring bikes are  lot more complex than any of the older British street bikes. And relatively few owners can handle much more than very basic maintenance.

Lots of examples out there of a British bike being used 3 or 4 decades with the same owner . Often maintained and repaired by that owner.

Some of the Honda tourer's can make similar claim's , but they seem to be almost a cult. Early Gold Wing's etc.

Greg

Edited April 8, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[padgett]

Interesting, my experiences with Delco electronics back to the Delcotronic ignition in the 60s has been they are very reliable. When the HEI (high energy ignition -1974) came out I always carried a spare module with me. Never needed it. Had MPG computers in '70s. Always worked (did have to add a prime button for the carbs on the dash). First computer car was an 84 Fiero. NP. Now I just carry an ignition module with my 3800 & always have a scan tool available

 

Do usually have spare computers/PCM/ECM/whatever and reprogram mainly to bring cooling fans in sooner. No Big. Am going to avoid 2015 and later nanny cars, just do not care for them. Do prefer cars with oil pressure and coolant temp gauges (all current), also have a tranny temp gauge in my tow car and had CHT (cylinder head temp) gauges (one for each head) in my Corvair.

 

Agree restoration in the future will be "different" but if had to replace a GM computer with an Arduino, could. May become a whole new industry.

[wws944]

On 4/8/2021 at 3:23 PM, padgett said:

Jon: real computer people think in hex.

 

Made myself quite unpopular with all of the pre-millenium computer disaster egg-spurts by saying "Computers do not think in decimal"

 

Or octal.  Mr Cray preferred octal.  Even in his 64-bit machines.

 

P.S., typing this on my linux desktop.  (Ubuntu flavor.)

Edited April 10, 2021 by wws944 (see edit history)

[padgett]

Ubuntu is good. Supports the big blue button (alternative to zoom).

[30DodgePanel]

On 4/8/2021 at 12:33 PM, John_S_in_Penna said:

I'm not a Fordophobe!

 

I'll admit it... I'm a Fordophobe  

Never had any luck with them and besides, the Dodge Brothers made Ford what it was if we were all being honest.

 

Is stirring the pot the same as getting completely off topic?

The irony of others pot stirring/getting off topic in a Padget started thread 🙄

 

Can someone please remember to include pears apples and oranges in this conversation so we can at least be somewhat on topic?
 

 

 

[Marty Roth]

Having started my corporate technical career within the hallowed halls of IBM's Poughkeepsie, and mid-town Manhattan offices, life revolved around System 360, Hexidecimal, and binary coding in the development of Internal Systems Software, Language development/creation, I/O Interrupt Supervisors, and the like. I transitioned to Applications Systems Software Architecture, and ultimately to corporate administration. Life revolved initially around trays of punch cards and magnetic core storage, warehouse-sized rooms with large mainframe supported by miles of underfloor cable, thousands of tons of conditioned air, and semi-sterile environment - and the transition to solid logic technology with more power on your wrist of phone than all prior versions. We use Apple iPhones, and HP laptop, and manage to survive.

 

The chip technology in the ignition key of my 1995 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham created more problems than my iPhone.

Thankfully I can still adjust ignition points and set timing on our early cars, and get pleasure from driving tours.

 

Use that which works for you.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Marty Roth (see edit history)

[padgett]

I don't mind, random dispersions are fine with me just need to be related to the previous threads.

 

The chip technology in a GM VATS (Vehicle Anti-Theft System) of the period is one of 15 resistors. Can break very quickly with a potentiometer on the two white wires.

 

Until the PC came along mainframes like the 360s were my PCs, worked mainly at night when it did not matter if it crashed.

[TAKerry]

A computer keeps my book work in the office streamlined. I can hit a couple of buttons and send an estimate or an invoice. I enjoy perusing and participating in several car forums.  The net is awsome, I can place an order on Amazing and have it on my doorstep the next day.  Other than the obvious stuff I have no love for computers. Def dont like or want them in a car. I am the guy that when I need a new one, price is the driving factor. 

 

As far as forum use, I do most on my laptop, some on my desktop, and almost zero on my smart phone. Screen is way too small, I have a hard enough time reading the computer.

[padgett]

Dozen years ago I thought that Tablets with Windows to Go would be the Next Big Thing for enterprise/agency use. Was rong. Have been using smaller laptops and docking stations with dual displays for years (first was a Dell 410)

 

My current Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge (am never up to date) is capable of a 2560x1440 display so with real keyboard, mouse, docking station, and 32" monitor can do everything you mention & with zero eyestrain.

[TAKerry]

The very first computer I had was by Apple. It was called a duo or something. Had a dock that you could plug a laptop in to convert to a desktop model. Actually was a pretty good idea I suppose. Now my desktop has everything built into the monitor. Much more streamlined.