1970 challenger R/T SE 440 4 speed value

[RowdyXmX]

my dad is looking to retire and is going to sell his 1970 R/T SE 440 4 speed challenger with factory power steering, power brakes, front disk and leather interior. It is all original minus a quarter panel repair and the original carb. Runs strong absolutely no rust original paint and top is in really good condition. Car needs a little tlc but not much shed or garage its whole life. We are having a REALLY hard time nailing down a rough value of this car. We were told only 143 of this specific car was made but like I said we are getting so many different values and conflicting info can you guys help?

Edited October 19, 2020 by RowdyXmX
additional info (see edit history)

[TerryB]

Without some recent pictures your request for a value is not possible.

[RowdyXmX]

Its in the garage at the farm. Ill have to pull it out wash it and get some current photos next time I can make it out there. Is there a rough idea? Like rough condition mid condition and spotless?

[Ed Luddy]

Post pictures please. Your post is smelling like a phishing scam. If you really have this car in your family since new you must have some photo's?

[RowdyXmX]

I dont even know what a phishing scam is give me a break guy. My mom sent me these pics from last year when they were digging it out of the garage to replace the fuel tank, lines and have a piston in the engine replaced. Car is obviously filthy paint is original.

Edited October 19, 2020 by RowdyXmX
spelling errors (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

Welcome to the forum Rowdy. Looks like a pretty nicecar but about all you will get is a guess at what it might be worth. I do know that some of those cars can have considerable value in really good condition. It might be worth your time to clean it up and spend a little money to have it appraised.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[padgett]

Not really my field but "the original carb" sounds like a 4 bbl. "Appliance" was an aftermarket mag wheel so originality may be questionable. Gauges, steering wheel, and radio were often replaced. It really needs a thorough inspection by someone local. Location is also a factor.

[Guest]

It's probably worth $40K in it's current condition.

Clean it and make it run, then it's probably worth $65K+.

[RowdyXmX]

8 minutes ago, GregLaR said:

It's probably worth $40K in it's current condition.

Clean it and make it run, then it's probably worth $65K+.

We are going to try and finish putting the new tank in and the motor is ready to be put back in. We have heard from 3 people now you included its worth around 60k running and cleaned up in this condition. Thank you. 

[alsancle]

It really depends on the condition of the body and undercarriage.   If it is as solid as it looks then you will do better and maybe that 60 number is attainable.  Also,  you didn't mention if it was the original engine?    Matching Engine/Tranny/rear end makes a big difference,  and then heads/carb/dist/manifolds etc could make up the last 5-10k.

 

9 out of 10 times barn finds are worth less than what you think.   1 out of 10 times more.   Typically cars were used, parts were replaced, sub frames rusted, bondo was applied and car was stored.   Sometimes, however things are better than they seem.  

 

Good luck,  cool car.

[Ed Luddy]

9 hours ago, RowdyXmX said:

I dont even know what a phishing scam is give me a break guy. My mom sent me these pics from last year when they were digging it out of the garage to replace the fuel tank, lines and have a piston in the engine replaced. Car is obviously filthy paint is original.

My apologies! It's just that lately a lot of fake posts about valuable cars pop up with no photos

 

[Ed Luddy]

That's a valuable car for sure. Any chance you can post a photo of the fender tag? Under the hood on the left fender apron. 

 

[TAKerry]

I think I would contact someone in the mopar world privately, maybe find someone on this forum. It may or may not be a valuable car. I am more in tune with 60's-70's cars but dont know much about that brand. I dont think I would 'over restore' it at this point for a sale. Example: if the car is valued at say $50-$60k as is, dont spend 7-8k into the engine that the next owner will most likely do a rebuild on anyway. A car in any type of original condition will bring back a better return these days than one that has been restored. Vanderbrink has made a name for selling cars just like this for ridiculous amounts of money. May want to contact someone along those lines as well.

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, TAKerry said:

I think I would contact someone in the mopar world privately, maybe find someone on this forum. It may or may not be a valuable car. I am more in tune with 60's-70's cars but dont know much about that brand. I dont think I would 'over restore' it at this point for a sale. Example: if the car is valued at say $50-$60k as is, dont spend 7-8k into the engine that the next owner will most likely do a rebuild on anyway. A car in any type of original condition will bring back a better return these days than one that has been restored. Vanderbrink has made a name for selling cars just like this for ridiculous amounts of money. May want to contact someone along those lines as well.

 

Good point about spending money on it.    Almost the same as when people renovate their kitchen to sell the house and the buyer rips the whole thing out.

[padgett]

BTW a number of the cars I've sold have had pictures of the rust free undercarriage. Depending on where it was driven I've seem cars like this that have Flintstone brakes.

[TerryB]

No points awarded for storage practices on this one.  Was the quarter panel replaced due to rust or was it accident damage?  Mixed info in your post, runs strong but it’s getting the motor put back in?  Pics without the clutter will help as will the top as many rust under the vinyl.  Not trying to pic it apart but need realistic view of condition.

[Graham Man]

Rowdy,

    Contact this friend of mine, one of the most knowable Mopar guys in the county.  507-254-0227 ask for Jim Remlinger.  I would talk to him before you do anything with the car.  (507) 254-0227

 

https://remlingermusclecars.com/

[Matt Harwood]

I think $60K for that car is very optimistic. For comparison, I have this for sale for $59,900.

 

 

Matching numbers 1970 'Cuda, 383/auto, factory A/C, power windows, great colors, two tag car, 8-year-old restoration.

 

'Cudas bring more than Challengers, but a 440+6 is worth more than a 383. Numbers matching is the #1 most important factor on a car like this--it can swing the value by 50%. If it has a replacement engine, no matter how "correct" it might otherwise be, few serious high-dollar collectors will even bother and it's little better than a clone. Verify engine number and transmission numbers, decode the fender tag and make sure the car matches that spec. The only guys more fanatical about numbers than Mopar guys are Corvette guys. Do not even try to sell this car without verifying the numbers, it will be an exercise in frustration.

 

Condition also matters and you're not going to get anywhere near what it's worth--whatever that number might be--if you don't get it out of that garage, get it running properly, and give it a deep clean inside and out, including the engine bay. Trying to sell it as-is with the pretext that it might be a desirable car if the buyer would just look under the dirt is not going to fly. Too many such cars for sale at any given moment and projects bring project car money, even if they're otherwise desirable cars. If it has needs, figure out what those needs are and either address them--I recommend fixing most stuff because if not, you will have to discount the car by a factor of 4-5x the cost of the repair (that is, if it needs a $2000 transmission rebuild, expect to discount it $8-10,000 to get someone to bite).

 

It could be a desirable car, but it is not right now. Diamonds-in-the-rough are not hot sellers, no matter what they might potentially be. Get it out, get it clean, get it running, verify the numbers and the spec, and then a value can be better determined. Everything else is throwing darts with a blindfold in a windstorm.

[alsancle]

7 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

I think $60K for that car is very optimistic. For comparison, I have this for sale for $59,900.

 

 

Matching numbers 1970 'Cuda, 383/auto, factory A/C, power windows, great colors, two tag car, 8-year-old restoration.

 

'Cudas bring more than Challengers, but a 440+6 is worth more than a 383. Numbers matching is the #1 most important factor on a car like this--it can swing the value by 50%. If it has a replacement engine, no matter how "correct" it might otherwise be, few serious high-dollar collectors will even bother and it's little better than a clone. Verify engine number and transmission numbers, decode the fender tag and make sure the car matches that spec. The only guys more fanatical about numbers than Mopar guys are Corvette guys. Do not even try to sell this car without verifying the numbers, it will be an exercise in frustration.

 

Condition also matters and you're not going to get anywhere near what it's worth--whatever that number might be--if you don't get it out of that garage, get it running properly, and give it a deep clean inside and out, including the engine bay. Trying to sell it as-is with the pretext that it might be a desirable car if the buyer would just look under the dirt is not going to fly. Too many such cars for sale at any given moment and projects bring project car money, even if they're otherwise desirable cars. If it has needs, figure out what those needs are and either address them--I recommend fixing most stuff because if not, you will have to discount the car by a factor of 4-5x the cost of the repair (that is, if it needs a $2000 transmission rebuild, expect to discount it $8-10,000 to get someone to bite).

 

It could be a desirable car, but it is not right now. Diamonds-in-the-rough are not hot sellers, no matter what they might potentially be. Get it out, get it clean, get it running, verify the numbers and the spec, and then a value can be better determined. Everything else is throwing darts with a blindfold in a windstorm.

 

Matt,  it used to be that a 440/four speed would be double a  383 auto car.   Not sure the four speed means much anymore.    They barn car needs to be all matching otherwise the fact that its a project would really kill things.

 

 

[carbking]

"Missing the original carb" is an EXPENSIVE issue!

 

The 440 could have come with either a single Carter type AVS four-barrel, or three Holley 2-barrel carbs.

 

The AVS was a "smog emission first, any performance is secondary" carburetor. Because of this fact, depending on the finances of the original buyer; these were either trash-canned at purchase, or trash-canned one micro-second after the warranty expired. Very scarce, very expensive for this reason.

 

Don't really know the value or availability of the six-pack.

 

Jon.

[RowdyXmX]

So to clear up some questions. There is no visible rust. It does have the original fender tag my dad has it in the vault. The quarter panel was replaced due to it being hit by another car in 1970. My dad has not driven the car since 78 we are putting in a new gas tank and lines and pulled the motor to go through it before starting it up again for first time in so many years. My dad claims everything on the car matches number wise and the only parts not original is the carburator and the manifolds he has headers and a Holly on it. When we get it put back together ill pull it out wash it and post more pics

Edited October 19, 2020 by RowdyXmX
additional info (see edit history)

[DLynskey]

As you see from my signature I'm a prewar guy and  know little about muscle cars, but the fender tag in a vault bothers me a lot. If it's not on the fender with the original fasteners it is a red flag for a buyer. The tag could have been removed from any car. Any sign that it's been tampered with is a problem.

 

Don

[Guest]

DL, the Mopar fender tags are only held in place with a couple of phillips screws. Removal is pretty common.

Alsancle, the 4 speed is a huge difference over the automatics in Mopars of this era.  I agree with most of what Matt posted about having this car complete, clean and running in order to ring the bell. And while a '70 Cuda is one of my all time personal favorites, I believe the difference in drive trains between these two cars makes them apples and oranges. 

A dialed in, rust free 440 4 speed RT Mopar E body with provenance all the way back to 1970 will bring $65+ all day long.

Cheers, Greg

[CHuDWah]

21 hours ago, padgett said:

Not really my field but "the original carb" sounds like a 4 bbl. "Appliance" was an aftermarket mag wheel so originality may be questionable. Gauges, steering wheel, and radio were often replaced. It really needs a thorough inspection by someone local. Location is also a factor.

 

They also sold headers - hence the buzzard perched on one in the window decal:

 

 

OP mentioned the car has headers.

[61polara]

I believe this car is an SE not an R/T.  The car should be one or the other.  The SE emblem is clear on the C pillar and SE's came standard with vinyl tops.  An SE could receive any available engine option.  Much more documentation is needed on this car before it can be declared a factory R/T.

[keiser31]

16 minutes ago, 61polara said:

I believe this car is an SE not an R/T.  The car should be one or the other.  The SE emblem is clear on the C pillar and SE's came standard with vinyl tops.  An SE could receive any available engine option.  Much more documentation is needed on this car before it can be declared a factory R/T.

I can very well be an R/T SE. The SE is a trim package such as the formal vinyl roof which has a smaller rear window and a few other items.

Edited October 20, 2020 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[61polara]

Yes, Keiser31 you're correct.  It can be an SE and R/T.  I should have done more research.  This just shows that documentation is the key to the value of this Challenger.

Edited October 20, 2020 by 61polara (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

Yes, the R/T SE is a real thing.

 

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1970-dodge-challenger-r-t-se

[Guest]

The more I look at this car the more interesting it seems to be.  I would really like to see the fender tag on this one.  I think with the options included, it sold at a high price point when new.

If the car hasn't been driven since 1978 as Rowdy points out, I think it's safe to say that it's in fairly original condition.  Exhaust manifolds aren't too difficult to replace but the orig. carb may be a little more difficult as Jon pointed out.  All badging looks correct for the R/T-SE combination even down to the rear bumblebee stripe, which just shows in this pic.

 

This painted on stripe (or the full length longitudinal side stripes) came on all R/T's except in the unlikely case where the V68 Stripe Delete may have been chosen. 

I'm usually reluctant to use the word "rare" but I think one would be hard pressed to find very many '70 RT's painted in this combination of FK5 Dark Burnt Orange with the EK2 Go-Mango stripe. I would guess that with the white vinyl roof the car may also have a white/burnt orange interior?

A pretty sharp looking combination when all polished up I think.

[Trulyvintage]

Barn Find Mopar Cars are the hottest thing and the hardest thing to find.

 

Don’t move - touch it - wash it - try to get it running.

 

Let a qualified buyer come to where the car is.

 

 

Jim

[8E45E]

21 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

 Almost the same as when people renovate their kitchen to sell the house and the buyer rips the whole thing out.

That is EXACTLY what happened next door to me!!

 

After the new owners paid nearly $700K for the house, the kitchen was too 'dark', and she didn't like cooking with gas.  They immediately tore it all out and replaced the darker granite counters with a white quartz, and replaced the stainless steel appliances with white ones (with ones equally expensive), and removed the gas cooktop with an electric 'induction' one.

 

Craig

[8E45E]

8 hours ago, GregLaR said:

The more I look at this car the more interesting it seems to be.  I would really like to see the fender tag on this one.  I think with the options included, it sold at a high price point when new.

If the car hasn't been driven since 1978 as Rowdy points out, I think it's safe to say that it's in fairly original condition.  Exhaust manifolds aren't too difficult to replace but the orig. carb may be a little more difficult as Jon pointed out.  All badging looks correct for the R/T-SE combination even down to the rear bumblebee stripe, which just shows in this pic.

 

 

This painted on stripe (or the full length longitudinal side stripes) came on all R/T's except in the unlikely case where the V68 Stripe Delete may have been chosen. 

I'm usually reluctant to use the word "rare" but I think one would be hard pressed to find very many '70 RT's painted in this combination of FK5 Dark Burnt Orange with the EK2 Go-Mango stripe. I would guess that with the white vinyl roof the car may also have a white/burnt orange interior?

 

A pretty sharp looking combination when all polished up I think.

I'm looking at that R/T-SE package as well.    

 

The SE was the top of the line for a 'luxury' model Challenger, most likely aimed at the Mustang 'Grande' and Cougar XR7 market, and it would have sold for a high price, as it was. Then add the R/T package, and it really added up!  

 

I will agree it is one Challenger that is 'rare' for being so well equipped.  The annual MCACN show in Chicago won't complete without this one being there at least once!!

 

Craig

[keiser31]

For information and price evaluation, try to contact my friend, Galen Govier on this link. He is an expert on these cars.

http://galengovier.com/

[TerryB]

I’m impressed at all the excitement over a car from 1970!  That’s the year I graduated from HS.  One of my all time favorites from that time is the Plymouth AAR Cuda.  Like sports guys that have fantasy sports teams, I have a fantasy garage with an AAR parked in it, right next to my Yenko Nova and several other great cars of that time in automotive history.

[alsancle]

15 minutes ago, TerryB said:

I’m impressed at all the excitement over a car from 1970!  That’s the year I graduated from HS.  One of my all time favorites from that time is the Plymouth AAR Cuda.  Like sports guys that have fantasy sports teams, I have a fantasy garage with an AAR parked in it, right next to my Yenko Nova and several other great cars of that time in automotive history.

1970 is the high water mark, isn’t it.

[George Smolinski]

It's interesting and a learning experience reading all the comments about this car. I know VERY little about Mopar muscle, & now I know a little more. My only comment is I bet every one of the people replying to this topic would have to wear a bib to keep from drooling on it if you found it in it's present location and condition, with or without the fender tag intact.

[alsancle]

The thing about musclecars is that it is all in the pedigree and paperwork.    A RT 440/four speed E body car is going to be desirable.   This car has a long history with one owner and may be relatively untouched for 40 plus years.    That makes it interesting.   Depending on how many of the following things are true you could see a 30-40k swing in value:

 

1.   Is it a V code six pack or a four barrel originally?

2.  Is the original fender tag intact?

3.  Is the original block still there and usable?

4.  is the original transmission with the car?

5.  Is the original rear end still in the car?

6.  Is there a build sheet?

7.  Is there any original dealer paperwork?

8.  Is there a complete ownership history?

9.  How bad are the rockers and torque boxes?

10.  How many original accessories are still in the engine compartment?

Edited October 20, 2020 by alsancle (see edit history)

[8E45E]

41 minutes ago, alsancle said:

The thing about musclecars is that it is all in the pedigree and paperwork.    A RT 440/four speed E body car is going to be desirable.   This car has a long history with one owner and may be relatively untouched for 40 plus years.    That makes it interesting.   Depending on how many of the following things are true you could see a 30-40k swing in value:

 

1.   Is it a V code six pack or a four barrel originally?

2.  Is the original fender tag intact?

3.  Is the original block still there and usable?

4.  is the original transmission with the car?

5.  Is the original rear end still in the car?

6.  Is there a build sheet?

7.  Is there any original dealer paperwork?

8.  Is there a complete ownership history?

9.  How bad are the rockers and torque boxes?

10.  How many original accessories are still in the engine compartment?

It could qualify to be in the 'Barnfinds' display at next year's MCACN show as this year's show has been cancelled.

 

Craig

[Guest]

3 hours ago, TerryB said:

I’m impressed at all the excitement over a car from 1970!  That’s the year I graduated from HS.  One of my all time favorites from that time is the Plymouth AAR Cuda.  Like sports guys that have fantasy sports teams, I have a fantasy garage with an AAR parked in it, right next to my Yenko Nova and several other great cars of that time in automotive history.

Yes Terry, a very good choice. One of my friends back in high school had a B5 Blue AAR, which he bought from his brother who bought it new. I think that was the first car that got me hooked on Mopars. Come to think of it, about the same era, another friend had a 383 4 speed '69 Roadrunner in X9 Velvet Black on Black, while still another had a '70 Superbird. 

All pretty cool Mopars for the time but still, all were just another muscle car back then. Nobody 

could have guessed where these numbers would get to.

Edited October 20, 2020 by GregLaR (see edit history)

[TerryB]

I am more of a GM guy than MoPar but there are MoPars that are desirable, especially the 340ci offerings.  One of my favorites is the 1970 Duster 340 with 4speed.  This is strictly nostalgia as my late best friend got one as his HS graduation gift in lieu of having a normal family life. The car did not fare well as my friend had drinking and drug issues, but it sure was fun while it lasted.  He put a hurting on many big block cars with that Duster, it was fun to see their reactions!