Frustrations

[1937McBuick]

......dealing with parts sellers.    Not private sellers,  but businesses.

 

Is this a common theme among businesses who sell parts?  

 

Don't want to get into any specifics.  Keep it vague.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I used to deal with an outfit where every interaction was an issue. Unfortunately if you have any sort of even somewhat other than common garden car (like we now have!) It can mean putting up with substandard service. 

 

I can think of 2 NJ firms, both providing Packard parts.  Very different service.  Not sure why, but I suspect the substandard service outfit issues has to do with scaling without business skills.  Anyway, I think we will leave it at Bill Hirsch was excellent... 😁😉

Edited July 10, 2020 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[jan arnett (2)]

Most Model T vendors are pretty good and I have had no problem in forty years, the early Dodge dealers are also excellent.

[Matt Harwood]

I think right now given the restrictions and difficulties with employees being in a confined space, they may be having some difficulty with turning orders quickly. There may also be supply chain disruptions so they can't get parts from their vendors. Even the big places are having a bit of trouble staying on top of things. For example, I can usually order from Summit Racing today and have the parts by 10 AM tomorrow merely because of my proximity to their store. But in the last few months, it's more like 3-4 days. When I need something right away I go get it in person, but the usual super fast delivery is no longer a sure thing. I'm also seeing many more items out of stock, and not even the oddball stuff.

 

If the problem is something else like a bad attitude, well, that's definitely different. But I think almost everyone in every industry--not just this hobby--is having supply chain issues, ranging from parts availability to delivery problems to staffing limitations.

[Terry Bond]

8 hours ago, 1937McBuick said:

......dealing with parts sellers.    Not private sellers,  but businesses.

 

Is this a common theme among businesses who sell parts?  

 

Don't want to get into any specifics.  Keep it vague.

Your going to get vague responses I'm afraid.  Would be helpful to provide more specifics of your frustration(s).  Are you talking about customer service? Parts quality? etc.etc. 

Terry

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Some, like Brattons Model A out of MD, have been outstanding.  They kept customers up to speed via forums, fb, and while asking for patience, they also wanted people to know they were able to remain open albeit with a limited staff of immediate family/owners.  Prompt shipping and great communication. 

 

Hopefully frustrating vendors are indeed the exception, and we generally know who they are.  They either survive on price or unobtaium stashes...

[TTR]

58 minutes ago, Terry Bond said:

Would be helpful to provide more specifics of your frustration(s).  Are you talking about customer service? Parts quality? etc.etc. 

+1

No need to use vendor names if you so prefer, but also bear in mind that quite often frustrations/problems of dealing with others are (at least partially) caused by the individual found staring at you in the mirror.

Also, based on my limited experience (40+ years in this hobby), dealing with large scale catalog* or online* vendors is about as brain damaging as it can get and all for saving a few shekels. Personally, I have no sympathy for anyone experiencing problems under such circumstances. 

 

Most people in this hobby today, especially many who've become involved with it during the computer/interweb era and prefer shopping from online vendors, don't seem to comprehend that most such businesses or their "customer service or sales personnel" are often just random people who haven't got the slightest clue about old cars or their parts, including the products the company they're employed by sells.

They just follow protocols prompted by the computer program in front of them and that protocol program was likely created by someone else who doesn't have a clue nor interest in old cars either.

My first experience with such goes back over 35 years (even way before online shopping options), when I step in to an auto parts store in Santa Monica, CA and the person (perhaps 10 years older than I was at the time), after I had inquired about some basic service/maintenance items for a '55 Packard I had just purchased couple of days earlier and was preparing to drive from Los Angeles, CA to Baltimore, MD, asked me if "it" is a foreign or domestic vehicle ??? 

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by TTR (see edit history)

[53Studie]

Most of my 40 years of vendor interactions have been positive, many of them Studebaker related. One common theme is poor or non-existent instructions.The vendors need to have an actual user review the instructions and usage.

[JamesR]

I think one problem for the average shade tree guy like myself is the inability to discern "tiers of quality" (for lack of a better term) for parts from suppliers, if such a thing even exists. When I refurbished my wagon, there were times when you could tell the old ORIGINAL parts were better made than the parts that were replacing them. But the old parts needed replacing, so what can you do?

 

So some EXPERIENCED guys on forums will shout, "Don't buy cheap parts!" But how do you find or discern "non-cheap parts"? You can't tell by looking at online ads, and if you call customer service at some of the big places, you just get someone who's never worked on a car before...they're only there to facilitate returns. They can't tell you about best options, and even if they could, it often wouldn't matter because there is only one replacement part available for your old obsolete vehicle, even from places that specialize in old obsolete vehicles. I had a door courtesy light switch go bad 10 seconds after putting it on the car. My wagon has a brand new turn signal switch that I had to repair before installation, because of it's low quality. Sending it back wouldn't work because the problem was it's generally low construction quality which needed to be addressed, even with a replacement unit.

 

People say "Don't buy Chinese parts! Don't buy Asian!" or "Don't buy on eBay!" so to avoid bad parts I'll order from one of the more respected small specialty restoration parts places...and they send me Chinese or Asian parts. In fact, the same ones listed on eBay at a fraction of the cost. And as I know from my music retail experience,  Chinese can be either bad quality or good quality.

 

So I've come up with some solutions, though they don't help all or even most of the time.  I recently bought some upper ball joints for my '65 T-Bird on eBay, but first I looked at the manufacturer name listed on the ad, then went to Amazon and other places to get reviews on that manufacturer. Some eBay ads may not list the manufacturers, though. Neither will parts suppliers. Thankfully, I'm not a guy who drives my old cars 10,000 miles a year (or even in ten years) so the longevity of replacement isn't as big an issue.

Edited July 10, 2020 by JamesR (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

Unfortunately, even buying from "respected" vendors is no guarantee of quality. I paid a premium at NAPA for their supposedly premium brand brake drums for my dually. They were still made in China and out of round right out of the box. Apparently the substantially higher price only pays for the 3yr vs 1yr warranty. Similarly, after a series of imported heater control valves that each started leaking as soon as the 30 day warranty was up, I paid about 5X for an AC Delco valve from the dealer. Took about two weeks to arrive, at which point I turned the box over to see Made in Mexico. That one also failed in just over a month.

[Matt Harwood]

"Quality" is an abstraction in today's world. There's no market for it.

[PFitz]

2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

I think right now given the restrictions and difficulties with employees being in a confined space, they may be having some difficulty with turning orders quickly. There may also be supply chain disruptions so they can't get parts from their vendors. Even the big places are having a bit of trouble staying on top of things. For example, I can usually order from Summit Racing today and have the parts by 10 AM tomorrow merely because of my proximity to their store. But in the last few months, it's more like 3-4 days. When I need something right away I go get it in person, but the usual super fast delivery is no longer a sure thing. I'm also seeing many more items out of stock, and not even the oddball stuff.

 

If the problem is something else like a bad attitude, well, that's definitely different. But I think almost everyone in every industry--not just this hobby--is having supply chain issues, ranging from parts availability to delivery problems to staffing limitations.

 

Disruptions in the supply chain is a reality. Especially for stuff traveling in or out of the country. Some of my wholesale suppliers are out of stock on parts I need because the factories making the parts have been shut down for a few months,.... just as demand is increasing with so many car owners stuck at home and working on their cars. And  no idea when those factories will start back up.

 

And that just made the few cranky suppliers that much crankier.

 

Paul

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Well Model A stuff, especially earlier stuff can be bad.  On bigger ticket items if it is not explicit (better vendors call it out in the A market) I will call.  Paid an extra $75 per for USA made shocks recently so there may still be some looking at that.

[joe_padavano]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

"Quality" is an abstraction in today's world. There's no market for it.

 

I wouldn't say "no" market, but definitely one that's too small for most manufacturers to serve or care about. And frankly, most non-automotive people with older cars aren't likely to own them long enough for the poor quality part to fail before something else craps out, so a lot of these companies are just playing the odds to make higher profits.

[Terry Bond]

Without knowing more about the OP's frustrations, all I can do is give a shout-out to one great dealer that I've had experience with - Ames GTO parts!

There catalog is full of great info and best of it is descriptions of the parts.  They tell you if it's a good part or a great part, it it's an accurate reproduction, or needs some hammering to adjust the fit. They give you a choice on a lot of items between show-quality and just "replacement" items.  They will even tell you in the catalog if the quality of chrome is good, or has flaws.  There is a lot of info on what's authentic for various years and engine options, and have tech tips throughout the catalog to make life easier when wrenching.  

 

When I buy from Ames I know what to expect.  Never been disappointed.  When I've called for help-I get to talk to people who know their product and the cars they fit.   Your experiences may vary - but count me as a loyal customer.  I think my 67 is happy too! 

Terry

[Buffalowed Bill]

I'm sorry if this does not comport with much of the groups biases, and maybe I should just keep quiet, but... I don't see a great deal of difference between the quality American made goods vs items made overseas. I'm sure most of us are old enough to remember when Japanese produced goods were demonized as being cheap, then it became the Korean made stuff, now it's Chinese manufacture that take the hit. I'm pretty sure only the most ardent old-timer holds on to the misconception on the first two country's production today. 

 

Producers of goods will only produce the level of quality goods that market profitability will sustain. The American consumer continues to tell the producers that they are unwilling to pay for quality. Just good enough is OK as long as it's cheap. 

 

About ten years ago there was an effort made at trying to replicate all mainstream household items, with items still produced  in the US. Virtually everything could still be purchased from a US manufacturer. The problem was, that US made items were measurably more expensive, and in head to head trials there was little significant difference in reliability. 

 

As for car parts. American car manufacturers long ago abdicated any responsibility for cars more then seven years old. Within that seven year window the part you got for your Buick etc was bound to be made overseas. Today the aftermarket producers give you at least three different levels of quality for a single part, but a choice is still a crap shoot.

[Mikefit]

Matt. You were right on about supplies   The N A P A store put out a four page flyer that was a one day only store opened at 7:30 I arrived at 9:00  only one in the store they were out of straight antifreeze hand wipes in a box  10 w40 motor oil had lots of straight 30   would not give rain check for any of the items.  

[padgett]

I have more problem with generic vendors that seem to just list eveything in the parts book whether available or not (and don't ask about returns) that marque vendors. Those that specialize to some extent seem much more reliable. Of course moost of my interests are for oddball parts for oddball cars (see sig) so what do I know.

[hidden_hunter]

I try to buy Australian made first, then from countries that share similar background (e.g US/Canada/UK/Europe etc) for my car stuff, I happily pay an extra couple of bucks if I know that there is likely things healthy and safety in place for the workers making the stuff. 

 

In terms of frustrations, my biggest frustration is dealers who advertise they have tonnes of parts for all years from like 1900-1942 but don't respond to calls/emails because yours isn't a year they're interested in even though they do actually have the parts (why bother advertising and waste peoples time)

 

Also frustrating is shipping, either not shipping to Australia or ridiculously expensive postage charges (the amount of stuff I've got from US vendors where it's something small like a flasher can in a  1ft box that cost $40 to ship, where wrapping it a couple of times in bubble wrap and sticking in a satchel would have been fine for $15) 

Edited July 11, 2020 by hidden_hunter (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

Over the years I have noticed a general lack of good service from second and third generation business owners. Not always, but if you watch It's a Wonderful Life enough times you get the drift.

 

Larger businesses that yield to corporate leadership after the founder has passed also have problems.

 

 I have a business and think it is very important that the organizational chart is thoroughly understood. It's a supportive thing. Google a few and see who gets the top line.

 

[capngrog]

I only have limited experience with Rock Auto, but so far, so good.  Their website lists the manufacturer of origin of the parts, which is of some help when trying to "buy American".  I ordered a set of assembled struts (those that include the spring) for my '09 Ford Explorer, taking care to order those listed as "Made In USA; however, when they arrived, I noticed that they were labeled: "Assembled in USA" instead of "Made in USA".  Oh well, I tried.

 

I've had good luck with items made in Taiwan, Japan and recently Korea.  Some air-cooled VW parts made in Mexico or Brazil seem to be O.K.  Otherwise, I guess it's just: "Roll the dice and hope for the best".

 

Cheers,

Grog

[John_Mereness]

Sidenote:  There are a lot of NOS parts out there that are technically not NOS - they were taken off a new car and put back in the box as someone saved verses throwing away

Add' Sidenote:  There is a lot of junk out there and that includes new parts in shiny new boxes as well as dusty boxes too. 

[1937McBuick]

Ok,  parts availability and quality aside.    

Professionalism.

Communication.

Courtesy.

Promptness.

 

Tried hard to get a hold of a certain company.   Finally they called back.  Took my order.  Took my money via credit card.  I was supposed to receive an email with a tracking tracking number.   No email, no contact, no returned calls.   I'm not from the U.S. so anything I buy from there becomes remarkably more expensive when shipping, Customs and currency exchange are taken into account.

 

Customer service and merchandise quality matters.   I'm always courteous and thank my vendors,  all I ask for is a level of service that makes me want to come back.

[TAKerry]

I get most of my stuff from a well know Pontiac specific vendor. I have never had a problem, or bad part. They do advertise in their catalogue if a product is sub-par. Those parts are usually a cheaper version of a GM part, or in some cases the only thing available.