Restorer32 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 What are the known weaknesses with these cars? Any particular year to steer away from (no pun intended)? Anything for you that would be a deal breaker if you were considering buying one of these behemoths? Car in question is a '24 Roadster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbartlett Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 They are known for being near-bulletproof mechanically, and they certainly have a physical presence. One of the most impressive-looking cars of the mid-teens to mid-20s. I've had several owners tell me that of all the cars in their collections, the Locos are the ones they would never sell. My family feels the same way about my car, a '19 Sportif 4-passenger -- it's OK to sell everything but that one. My car cruises easily at 50-55. Weaknesses include the fact that they are expensive and complex to restore, particularly if an engine job is needed (525-cubic-inch T-head, two cams, massive Babbitt bearings, 3 separate cylinder blocks to align correctly on the crankcase, engine air pump that pressurizes fuel tank). The clutch has (if I recall correctly) 17 plates, though maybe it was simpler by 1924. Shifting is very heavy, but you can get the hang of it and shift quickly with practice. The electrical system is uncommonly complex for the era. Just need to understand that technically, a Loco Model 48 was a good 10 years behind its times compared to a Packard or Cadillac. Big and heavy, relatively low-revving. But the quality of the materials used was first-rate, and it shows when you look one over. They were reportedly the most expensive cars built in America until the Springfield Rolls came along. Many of the surviving Locos have fairly low mileage -- my car has 33,000 miles, the majority put on by collectors since the 1950s. A new owner should understand or be able to learn the ins and outs of the dual distributor ignition system, the wiring diagram, and steering and shifting what I like to call "A man's car." My car is pictured below. Happy to discuss further if needed. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) Good to see ex Dr. Davenport Loco that lived here in Ridgefield when it was a new car. I got to spend some time working on it when Mr. Oexle restored it back in the 1970's. Bob Edited June 28, 2018 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Loco’s are great cars, and the 48 is a fun machine to drive. Remember a 48 is basically a 1914 platform. I have never seen one on the side of the road on a tour, and the owners all love them. You usually only see them for sale at estate auctions........there must be a reason. Is the Roadster a Gunboat? There are several well known Gunboats around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 I have been fortunate to know (or have known) more than a dozen Locomobile owners, ranging from steamers to the early '20s behemoths. Only ridden in a couple of them, and not yet driven one. I have been on many tours (years ago) alongside the cars, and they are impressive to follow to say the least. I only ever saw one fail to complete a tour. That was due to it having been recently put back on tours by its new owner, and two of the rather old tires failed. It just by chance happened to be a couple miles from the owner's home (tour was nearly 300 miles total!), so he drove home and finished the tour with his Wills St Clair. The funny part about it was the tour began with two Locomobiles, and one Wills St Clair, then finished with one Locomobile (a Sportif) and two Wills St Clairs. The worst thing about touring with a big Locomobile is having to buy the gasoline. Their mileage stinks! But if you can afford to buy the car? That may not be so bad. Several people I know drive their Locomobile more than any other car in their collection. If a person can afford one, and had the opportunity to get one? For either Horseless Carriage or Nickel Age touring? You can't beat a Locomobile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) You have to be loco not to buy a Loco if you have the chance! “of course, nothing is worser than driving a Mercer!” Written while looking at a world class Stutz. Edited June 28, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 5 hours ago, wayne sheldon said: But if you can afford to buy the car? That may not be so bad. Several people I know drive their Locomobile more than any other car in their collection. If a person can afford one, and had the opportunity to get one? For either Horseless Carriage or Nickel Age touring? You can't beat a Locomobile. While Locomobiles aren't inexpensive, they needn't be tremendously expensive, either. One Locomobile I followed was at the Hershey car corral for 2 consecutive years, but sold, I believe, for HALF the original asking price. In a way, they are like stage coaches: Lots of people like to look at them, but not as many people actually aspire to own them. They are in the era where there's less demand, and I'd say they have less following than Pierces and Packards. You asked for downsides. The only one I can think of is that, as J. Bartlett implied above, they take considerable strength to operate. I have a 1957 GM car without power steering, and it takes noticeably less effort than driving a properly operating Locomobile. "The Beautiful Beast" is a term I've heard applied to Locos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 The trick with a Loco is make a new set of internals for the steering box.........you end up having to crank the wheel around more, but the better leverage ratio makes steering easy. There are lots of early brass cars with updated steering boxes.......lots. They are usually the ones seen being driven down the road. Also, driving tecnique is a major part of operating early cars. THINK before you park it, or pull into any area............too many people worry about getting close to the door of the building..........I rather park out back, and leave lots of room to maneuver, meaning I don't have to cut the wheel to leave.......problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) Ed, the idea you mention for easier handling of a big car is good for those who need a lighter-handling car; but there's something to be said for keeping the car as it really was historically. Drive an old Mack truck, or an authentic Locomobile, and you step back into history as you learn what life was really like back then! My muscles have been strengthened from Locomobile driving. Edited June 28, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbartlett Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 There is an easy upgrade to ease the steering of a Locomobile. The front axle/kingpin setup has the weight of the car's front end resting on slotted washers; the slots retain grease. It's not hard to replace the washers with thin washer-like roller bearings. I did that to mine and it helps. As Ed says, steering while moving is the key. The steering ratio is one-and-a-half turns lock to lock for a car that probably has 3,000 pounds weight on the front end. No way you'll turn it sitting still. Just thinking ahead helps a lot. Bottom line is I no longer consider the car hard to steer. One drawback is that the engine and rear axle tend to be leaky, but that may have been addressed by 1924. Gas mileage is 5-6 MPG, but you really don't care in one of these cars. I drove my car on the Glidden Tour in Ohio a few years back -- covering about 500-600 miles, and I drove in the fast car group with cars from the '30s. No problems. A pic of the engine is below. The crankcase is manganese bronze, used because it is stronger than cast iron. Incidentally, you're looking at a restoration that was done in 1971-1972. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbartlett Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Couldn't resist -- here are a few more photos. Those tires are 35x5, and combined with the standard 3.2 to 1 rear end ratio, at 60 miles per hour the engine is turning only 1,769 RPM. Some of the cars even had numerically lower ratios. I don't drive that fast; nervous about wood wheels, Babbitt rod bearings and 2-wheel brakes. But those brakes are huge, and more effective than I expected. I have a new 3.07 to 1 ring and pinion gear set from Phil Hill, but have not bothered to put it in. He used to routinely drive his '25 Sportif at 70-plus. We had a friend in West Texas with a '25 Sportif who back in the 1960s toured the western U.S. at 60-70. That car is now in the Cussler Museum. The reason so many Locos have low mileage is that technology was advancing fast, and these cars were quickly outdated as too thirsty, and too heavy. So they were parked in carriage houses. That said, I do know of a fellow (Alexander Stein) who I was told put 300,000 miles on his Loco from the 1920s through the 1950s. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Please do not resist ANY temptation to post ANY photos of ANY of your magnificent cars, James ! ? I am sure that many of us here have had our hearts carried away by this particular King of the Nickel Era roads ! I have a question regarding the function of a linkage seen in the engine bay. It is the horizontal rod, low down, which transits across the red valve handle. It seems to have something to do with intake air temp. Is this the case ? My feelings about speed in ancient machinery reflect the reality of inherent instability in an emergency. Combined with the total lack of safely engineering, I always favor SLOWER than capable speeds. The sum total value of all the primitive cars in the world, is infinitesimal compared with the precious cargo they (and other vehicles on the same roads), carry. I enjoy the privilege which driving a veteran conveys, in that I can get away with being an old man driving an old car slowly. Of course out West here, I know many lightly traveled scenic roads. Other motorists momentarily delayed, eventually pass me smiling after appreciating the seldom seen spectacle of such beautiful old machinery in operation. Now if this old guy was driving one of his extremely fast relatively modern cars at such a leisurely velocity, the facial expression on the delayed and enraged overtaker would not be a smile. And the raised digit would not be a thumb ! Wood spoke wheels are quite robust if in good condition. Seasonal inspection is a good idea. Do not ignore creaking spokes. Unloading them during long term storage by using hub jacks or jackstands is a must. Keep in mind that the greatest stress these wheels experience is during braking. Driving thoughtfully to reduce such loads is good practice. Thank you for the additional pictures. My guess is that you must be a fairly busy guy. But if you have some time, please show us more of your great cars. Most of us can only dream................ How lucky we are to be able to do so through our beloved AACA. - Carl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbartlett Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 The linkage you asked about connects to the choke. It's controlled by a nickle-plated rotating collar on the steering column, just below the steering wheel. The temperature of the incoming air is regulated by a sliding plate attached to an aluminum heat stove that encircles the exhaust manifold. It's use is contra-indicated currently because of the far-more-volatile nature of today's gasoline. I disconnected the pipe that ties the carburetor to the heat stove. Otherwise the gasoline would boil in the carburetor -- certainly down here in Texas. It's interesting to see the lengths the early manufacturers had to go to in order to deliver gasoline to the combustion chamber and get it to fire. The Loco not only has priming cups, it also has a button on the dash that when pressed shoots a jet of pressurized gasoline directly into the back of the intake manifold. That's some of the other plumbing that you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 What Carl said. Veiwing pics and learning about this great example is a treat. Hope info helped restorer, we all benefit. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoman Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Hello all Loco fans. I have a 1913 Loco 48 7 passenger touring for sale. Step up to the plate and own one of the best. E-mail me for particulars and photos. Locoman, email me at diane3626@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Locoman, having honored us with a chance to own your fine car, how about displaying a few pics ? Thanks, - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 I'll never understand AACA Form logic...…..or lack of it. Just Googled a photo of the Alex Stein 1919 Locomobile the one he put 300,000 miles on, thought someone might enjoy seeing a photo, but the Forum will not accept it. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) Is this it? Taken from Bonhams, who had it for sale. https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19392/lot/331/ I prefer the black tires and the black spark plug leads, which I think are correct as original. Edited June 29, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) Here it was again, as sold at Hymans. https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/5096-1919-locomobile-model-48-roadster/ Edited June 29, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Interesting that Hyman's says "... and currently showing what are believed to be less than 23,000 actual miles.." yet Mr. Stein is said to have driven it >300,000 miles. I'd like to know his car care techniques! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoman Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 OK C CARL Here they are. LOCOMAN 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Thank you all for the 1919 Alex Stein Loco photos. This car was on the 1950 Glidden Tour along with the 1912 Model T Ford that has been in my garage since 1983. Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Do you ever wonder were a 1919 Locomobile Sportif would have lived up till the time the second owner bought it? The carriage house is on the left, with the chauffeur quarters above it, the main house is on the right. I drive by it every day I go to town. James Bartlett is taking good care of the Loco now. Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbartlett Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Does anyone know if the roadster pictured was in fact Alexander Stein's "baggage car," or just one of the several Locomobiles that he owned? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Yes, that is the same Loco that Alex Stein drove on the 1950 Glidden tour, next caretaker was Len Dryer. When Len passed on it bounced around the auction circuit, until it has the home it has now. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Didn't Phil Bray own that green roadster towards the end of his life? I remember being on a tour with him 7-8 years ago and he had just acquired it. It was cold and rainy that week, but he ran that sucker without hesitation and later said it was the best old car he'd ever owned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motoringicons Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) Yes, Phil Bray did own that roadster. He may have purchased it from or through Mark Smith, can't remember exactly.He sold it at an RM auction before his unfortunate passing. Phil was a talented mechanic and a great enthusiast. He drove all of his cars with the gusto of Barney Oldfield. Phil really knew how to enjoy this hobby. I have driven a couple of well sorted out Model 48s and they are true road warriors. Once you get them going, its like driving a high speed locomotive. The earlier examples seem to be more nimble than the later examples, but they are all great cars. It is no wonder why the pioneer collectors held these cars in such high esteem. Edited July 6, 2018 by motoringicons (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 “of course, nothing is worser than driving a Mercer!” Written while looking at a world class Stutz. You gotta be nutz to drive a Stutz! reply of the Mercer owner............... I was at Hershey about 30 years ago and a fella was selling his model 48, I believe around a 1918 model and his buddy asked why.................. It was in the car corral Older fella replied, I enjoy driving my model A roadster better. Easier to stop, more nimble, and a heck of a lot of fun! Last time I was out in the Loco, couldnt stop the damn thing with the rear wheel brakes. Far too heavy and difficult to steer. I was eaves dropping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 On 7/5/2018 at 10:44 PM, 1937hd45 said: Yes, that is the same Loco that Alex Stein drove on the 1950 Glidden tour, next caretaker was Len Dryer. When Len passed on it bounced around the auction circuit, until it has the home it has now. Bob Bob, did this car ever reside in Gaylordsville, CT? I seem to remember running across it there in the 1960's. Can't remember if the little gas station there was working on it or if they said they owned it? My brother also mentioned years ago he ran across a big Loco owned by some scrap yard in CT? Howard Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Dean, The Garlordsville Loco was a smaller one, think it was a model 38. It graced the lawn at Pebble Beach last year in the unrestored class, current owner has a great eclectic collection of cars and posts regularly on the HAMB. The junkyard Loco is in Dells Auto Wrecking in Danbury the old Alex Stiein pickup truck Coupe conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said: Dean, The Garlordsville Loco was a smaller one, think it was a model 38. It graced the lawn at Pebble Beach last year in the unrestored class, current owner has a great eclectic collection of cars and posts regularly on the HAMB. The junkyard Loco is in Dells Auto Wrecking in Danbury the old Alex Stiein pickup truck Coupe conversion. Thanks Bob, I figured you would know. Right after I posted this I remembered a 1920's green touring that used to go roaring up Quaker Hill in Pawling in top gear while I was teenager cutting lawns for spending money in the early 1960's. Guess we saw more than the average number of Locomobile's in our youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 (edited) I'm guessing this is a Locomobile. The photo was taken in New London, Connecticut around 1912. My great-uncle was the chauffeur. The owners of the car were named "Poor" - which, needless to say, turned into something of a local joke. I apologize for the poor photo, the original is only about 1-1/2 inches long. Of course, he wasn't supposed to use the car to run errands so they bought him a runabout... Edited July 8, 2018 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob McAnlis Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Yes, the upper picture is 1912 Loco. 7p touring. Attached is a photo of my 1911 Loco 48. The first year for the 48. It has a 4p Torpedo body and was the forerunner of the Sportif. I won the Grand Champion Award at the OlD Car Festival at GFVillage in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Bob, Was your 1911 once in the McGee Collection here in Connecticut? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob McAnlis Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 No. My car was part of Hartline collection from early Fifties until I obtained in late eighties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbartlett Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 The green Locomobile roadster we've been discussing had supposedly had the back of the body cut off and was then used as a truck in a shipyard in Boston. Ultimately the car was sold and the back half of the body was rebuilt into the present form by Merrimac. So though Alex Stein later owned the car, I don't know if this was actually the "baggage car." When Alex Stein died, Lee Davenport was the executor of his estate, which supposedly included a garage full of Locomobile spare parts. Lee was the owner of my Sportif, and I suspect that my wheel rims -- which are absolutely pristine, with perfect "Firestone" engraving visible -- were NOS from the Stein parts cache. Lee also commissioned a restoration of my car in the early 1970s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 James, When Alex Stein passed away there were two Loco 48s, the green car above and a Coupe with a pickup bed, small Rolls Royce and a very nice 1929 Lincoln that had a Merrimac body if my memory is correct. Bob Stark drove that on tours for years, think he left it to the CCCA Museum. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Perhaps within the next 6 months or so you may see a story on the Locomobile dealer that was in New York City on the upper west side . Emlen S. Hare was his name, and he was also a VP at Packard in 1918. I have the showroom album he had for his dealership that consists of huge b & w photographs mounted on linen showing a variety of body styles on the 38 and 48 series chassis. Locomobile has always been of interest to me especially because of the era when James Frank de Causse was responsible for their styling. I do not own a Locomobile but do have a part for one ( complete radiator and shell of the 1916-1919 era) resting against my garage wall that I can walk past every time I am in the garage. My own personal tribute and a momento of one of the finest cars ever made in America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbartlett Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I have quite a collection of Loco literature that was accumulated through the years by Lee Davenport and possibly Alexander Stein. Would love to see your catalog. Of course you know that Emlen Hare later put together a manufacturing venture that included Locomobile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Yes, Emlen Hare was quite a well known figure in the 1917-35 era, but is little mentioned today by author's in articles. The story will most likely appear in Hemmings Classic Car magazine, not sure yet, I have a lot of research, story's etc going on currently. Lee Davenport was a fine gentleman, and great enthusiast . We used to have conversations at the annual HCCA pre 1942 car show that was held in the school yard at Ridgefield , Ct. every September. in addition to the showroom album I have a fair amount of Locomobile factory issued portfolio's , as well as individual publicity photographs issued by coachbuilders that used a Locomobile chassis as a base for their creations. Many of the photos taken by John Adams Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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