Prewar car values

[papafarms]

Hi everyone, i would like to get some opinions from anyone who has noticed this, or is it me, I have noticed that pre-war cars are dropping in value, whats everyones opinion, would like to hear what everyone thinks.Thanks Bob

[hidden_hunter]

It's one of those things where 'it depends' if you've got something rare, unique and desirable (generally cars that were that when they were new as well) they seem to still be fetching strong money but the more garden variety stuff they aren't commanding big money. 

[auburnseeker]

Only the ones I own.  All the ones i want to buy have been going up,  sometimes it seems like daily. 

[Joe in Canada]

If you look at eBay Motors pre 1925 cars that some have been posted there for over a year now. That either they are loosing their popularity or are they overpriced at todays value. For cars between 1916 to 1930 is kind of a less desirable era so they will hurt first. 

[JV Puleo]

Your question is far to vague to elicit an realistic answer.

 

Do you mean the "mass consumption" cars like Ford, Chevrolet, Dodge etc. or do you mean Buicks... or better still Cadillacs, Peerless, Franklin or Packard not to mention all the really obscure makes or masterpieces like the Locomobile, Pierce Arrow of American Silver Ghost and Phantom I. If you are judging by whether they are selling on ebay are you considering that many, if not most cars that are advertised there and elsewhere are offered at either the top price or more than the top price in a fruitless endeavor to catch the mythical guy "with more money than brains." Despite all the hand wringing, I think there is still a strong market for pre-war cars, even those from the much bemoaned period from 1916 to the late 20s. What there isn't, is silly money being thrown at them. Since these cars are now less fashionable (using that term in a derogatory sense) they mostly appeal to serious early car enthusiasts and they KNOW it is a buyer's market. They are not attracting money from the fringe element of show-offs. This is not to say people interested in other areas are not serious enthusiasts, but that when ANY collectible item becomes fashionable it attracts elements that simply want to be seen, simulating whatever segment of the market that is and, temporarily at least, causing a spike in demand. This is true for everything from the housing bubble to cabbage patch dolls. Anyone who believes the price of anything has "nowhere to go but up" is foolishly naive. So... yes they are declining in cost in a relative sense but there is no reason to believe that is permanent or that exactly the same thing will not happen to many of the items that are "hot" today.

 

You'll also hear the endless refrain that people collect what they aspired to own when they were young... and that this is the root of the declining interest in pre-war cars. While there may be a small element of that... it's just plain silly. There is no one left alive that saw a brass car on the road in everyday use unless it was hopelessly old fashioned. The same can be said for the teens and early to mid 20s. My dad wold be 101 years old were he alive and he learned to drive in the 30s... If this sort of reasoning were valid who would collect 18th century pewter, Revolutionary War swords or 17th century books? In the end, I believe that quality always remains desirable and prices always fluctuate according to the demand at the time.

[Matt Harwood]

Just watched a 1933 Pierce-Arrow Silver Arrow sell for $2.1 million. That's more than any one before it. Your thesis is flawed.

[JV Puleo]

No... I referring to it in a general sense not any specific case and especially not in the case of a car like that (or any of the other really great cars of the era). At the moment there are two RRs on prewarcar offered for more than £1,000,000 — that isn't a decline either. Nevertheless, it probably is hard to sell a 1916 Dodge touring car and I don't see a host of people begging for information on the very interesting unrestored 1916 Oldsmobile offered on this site. Also... 1933 is well outside the "pre-war" area I was primarily addressing. This just goes to the original question and my point was that it (the question) was too vague and too general to generate any sort of reasonable answer.

[Matt Harwood]

7 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

No... I referring to it in a general sense not any specific case and especially not in the case of a car like that (or any of the other really great cars of the era). At the moment there are two RRs on prewarcar offered for more than £1,000,000 — that isn't a decline either. Nevertheless, it probably is hard to sell a 1916 Dodge touring car and I don't see a host of people begging for information on the very interesting unrestored 1916 Oldsmobile offered on this site. Also... 1933 is well outside the "pre-war" area I was primarily addressing. This just goes to the original question and my point was that it (the question) was too vague and too general to generate any sort of reasonable answer.

 

No, your thoughts are good and I agree. My comment was directed towards the original post. Some cars are getting more valuable, most aren't. That's actually how it always was. Collector cars are generally more expensive today simply because the dollar buys less. Not many farmers with Model As for sale for $35 these days. Some are MUCH more expensive because they're desirable, but most are average and have always been average and haven't commanded a lot of money.

 

Same as it's always been. The scale has changed, but the relative values haven't.

[mercer09]

 

Just watched a 1933 Pierce-Arrow Silver Arrow sell for $2.1 million. That's more than any one before it. Your thesis is flawed.

 

 

rare is the exception-Mercers are only going up as are Duesenbergs

 

yes common cars are dropping and so are early brass- as mentioned, many of the interested parties are dying.

Several Thomas Flyers went up for sale this past year, due to a passing and they are not garnering the prices they once did.

 

maybe they were too expensive in the first place?

 

and Ferrari continue to command top dollar...................

[trimacar]

I think the problem is that some people look at regular market fluctuations, and take that as a long term trend.

 

I had numerous people walk up to my booth at Hershey, look at some early brass horns I had for sale, and say something to the effect that "you won't sell those, no one wants brass cars any more".  Well, that person doesn't want a brass car, so he/she assumes NO ONE wants a brass car.  Yet, prices for good early cars keep staying steady or rising.  And, I did sell over half the horns, still have a few left though!

 

Is it hard to sell a 1920 something Dodge touring?  Sure, if you're asking big money for it, when the market on a good one has been under 10K for a long time.

 

Again, remember that it's all in perspective.  If you love muscle cars, you may not understand the allure of a pre-WWII car to other people.

 

I still think back to when Holiday Inn announced plans in the 1980's to put over 1000 of Harrah's cars over the auction block, numbers that were then massive, and everyone said "there goes the market, there aren't enough people interested to buy all those cars".....yet they were sucked into the hobby at record prices in some case...

 

Come back when you can buy a nice Model A roadster for a few thousand dollars, THEN I'll agree with you there's limited interest......

[JV Puleo]

One of my other interests is early Federal Period Arms... militia and military swords and other arms from the period 1790 to about 1830. I also like earlier stuff, but that has always been slightly above my pay scale though I have been able to find some good things over the past 50 years. In the mid 1970s, at the time of the bicentennial, prices went through the roof and this sort of thing virtually disappeared from the general market. Everyone had to have a "Rev War" musket (even one made 40 years after the war was over). It was ten years before things got back to normal and lots of those "priceless" relics of the War of Independence were back on the market. At first the prices reflected the cost but, eventually, the marked corrected this. In some cases, items never sold until inflation caught up with the price.  If you want to sell something as useless as a flintlock musket (or an antique car) you have to sell it to someone who is willing to spend their disposable income on it simply because like it and want to own it.

 

I have often though that brass cars and CCCA Classics in rough condition (which often take a lot of imagination to refurbish) were probably overpriced. I am not  disappointed to see them occasionally sell more realistically. I think we are a long way from seeing a brass Locomobile in the local junk yard but there may be a relative limit to how much they can be sold for. As for things like Ferraris... does anyone think most narcissistic "celebrities" are real enthusiasts? They'll change interests the moment the next "trend setter" does, leaving someone standing when the music stops. This is one of my favorites, if a bit over the top ... we should all learn from it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

Edited October 7, 2017 by JV Puleo
typo (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

Why have 36-37 Cord prices been so flat over the last 10 years?  Even open cars seem to be trading flat for the last 10 years. Seems such an iconic car (though there seem to be many surviving) would atleast be creeping up in value.   I think the only thing that has gone up on them is the value/ cost of the parts to restore them. 

It's kind of surprising when you see other trendsetting beautifully designed cars,  blowing by auction estimates, time and again.  

How are non Boat tail Auburns doing?  I know the bottails are rivaling nice open Duesenberg Money now.  Like the 800K one in the Hershey car corral. 

I noticed the 31 or 32 Cabriolet in the swap meet that could have been taken home for 65G  but was quite notably worse than other 50-55 G cars I have seen on the market. 

[ols car dog]

I have a perfect example,my 1930 Studebaker President has been for sale on Five venues for ten months..

I received one inquiry inJan.  AndThats IT...There have been over 10000 views.I can,t imagine not even one person

would even ask to make an offer.no questions at all!!! 

I guess I,ll just die with it

[Terry Wiegand]

I have been playing with old cars for going on 55 years now.  In the early to middle 1960's when I got my first OLD car for $150.00 (it was a 1931 Hudson Essex Super Six) Model A Fords were the hottest thing since sliced bread.  Everybody and his brother just had to have an A Model Ford.  They brought good money for that time.  Well, a few years passed and if you had a really nice A Model, you just about couldn't give it away.  Time seems to have a way of marching on and the next thing you know A Model Fords are hotter than a biscuit again.  It seems that a whole new crop of folks discovered them and everyone just had to have one.  I have watched this go on for decades now.  Some will call this a cyclical pattern and I believe that they are right.  I still believe that very nice original and well maintained (HPOF if you will) cars will hold a higher percentage of their value than the run of the mill mass produced elcheapos.  I realize that this is just one persons opinion and along with 55 cents you can buy a soda at Sam's.   I also want to point out what Matt just posted.  I am just not buying into this idea that pre-war cars are a dead item.  The person forking over 2.1 million obviously doesn't think that way either.  Just something to think about.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

The Buick Mecca of Doo Dah

[JV Puleo]

I think that part of our problem understanding all of this is that we do not represent the general public. For the most part, by participating here we are identifying ourselves as being genuinely interested in the subject. I am certain that if Jay Leno did a video on his new 1930 Studebaker President Sedan, Mr. osl car dog's phone would be ringing off the hook... but most of the people calling would have only a peripheral interest in old cars for their own sake. Terry (above) has a little advantage on me... I've only been involved since the early 70s but I've also seen several cycles of interest. Why is it that nicely preserved, untouched cars are now do desirable? I can assure you that in the 70s, many of the people touting them now would have laughed you off the field. My first car was a 314 Cadillac Fisher custom sedan in beautifully well preserved condition. The most common question I heard from the consignetti was "when are you going to restore it?"  I totally agree that a good looking but unrestored original car in driveable condition will always hold value but I came to old cars from a part of the collecting world that generally deplores restoration and devalues most items that have been restored.

 

I have an advantage here in that I am the technical editor of a collector magazine (dealing with another subject altogether) and deal every day with 17th, 18th and 19th century artifacts and those that collect them. Collectors are extremely myopic. For the most part, they only see the area they are particularly interested in. As Trimacar correctly pointed out, if you like muscle cars you probably don't even know anyone who likes brass cars and can't understand what their appeal could be.

 

Markets also go flat... in the 1960s, at the time of the Centennial, Civil War collecting was huge. By the and 80s and 90s it was flat... not really losing money but values were consistent with inflation. When Ken Burns did his 5-part special on the Civil War, it took off again and that surge is just about now flattening out. Why should car collecting be any different from other forms of collecting? I'm sorry to say, but a large part of the market is driven by fad and fashion.

[mercer09]

Why have 36-37 Cord prices been so flat over the last 10 years?

 

for starters- horrible fit and finish............... front wheel drive that is a PIA to get working properly and so, not an easy car for the avg layman to work on.

 

Terry, regarding the 2.1 million for the arrow- most likely going to a museum where the cost is somewhat irrelevant. Not many of us on this site dropping 2 mill for just one car...............

 

Model A's- could buy a nice roadster 20 years ago for about 12k- not much more today, but the dollar is worth half, so no, model A fords are not as hot as you might think, unless we are talking a rare body style A 400, 180 or town car.

[auburnseeker]

"for starters- horrible fit and finish"

Well that describes everything Chrysler Corp built in the late 50's but they are hotter than a smoking pistol. 

I don't see a lot of collectors who pay the crazy money driving much less fixing their cars anyways.  

Afterall,  I have been told by many that most of the problems have had fixes designed over the years to make them more reliable. 

My car appears to be fairly original as far as the panels and sheetmetal go.  Nothing seems any worse than any other production car of the time.  Maybe not on par with a Cadillac but definitely nothing worse than a Ford Chevy or Mopar.  Does anyone not remember the goal in the shop manuals was to bend the doors to fit with a block of wood in 1950's Dodge shop manuals and hammer decklid edges down after masking them on 40's chevy cars so they seal.   Shows it right in the shop manuals. 

Most of these cars have been restored and fit and finish has all been properly taken care of / over the top in most cases by the restorers.   You can't tell me alot of the 36-37's haven't been over restored. 

Edited October 7, 2017 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[Vintageben]

I may well get shot down for my next comments but so what! I just really love prewar cars and all their eccentricities and welcome either the slight drop in values or at least the plateau that we are experiencing now as it has made vehicles that I could only dream about become closer to reality for me. Sure the cars I already have are not as valuable and I will never get my money out of them but  that's not why I own them, they are a hobby,they're what keeps me sane (crazy I know)?. Not many hobbies make money anyway so why should this one be any different. I get so much enjoyment out them the money side doesn't matter as long as I can afford it. 

[mercer09]

so Auburn,

I guess you have no problem working on yours? you can easily repair the front wheel drive or any malady that comes up?

 

Let me know where you live and Ill bring mine by, because it is a bit daunting for me........... 

[SC38dls]

My prewar 38 State Commander Studebaker is actually 80 years old as it was produced on Aug 27 1937. I’m 71 and physically pretty busted up so I’m sure the car is going to out last me even though it is a daily driver. It’s not a rare or unique car so it does not have a high value on it. There is not a great audience waiting to buy it. I don’t think the average prewar falls into that category. It may drop in value, it may raise in value. I know no matter where I take it someone always comes up and asks me about it and goes away with a smile saying “nice car”. Makes me feel good I get to drive it away. Don’t worry so much about the value just enjoy the ride. 

[trimacar]

Interesting comments.

 

I do have to chime in here, though.

 

First, fit and finish.  Sure, Cords were basically hand built cars, so the fit and finish weren't perfect.  I worked on a professionally restored Packard Darrin, you want to talk fit and finish, and quality of body build?  Ha!  Talk to anyone who'll tell you the facts, these cars were cobbled together, they weren't built for the long term, they were built to SELL!  I test drove a 1969 Super Bee when I was 18, my parents offered me a new car graduating high school....by then I was into car restoration, and the fit and finish on Chrysler products, late 1960's, was not just bad, it was awful.  Really, really, awful.

 

Yes, it does seem that 36-37 Cord prices are "flat" for the last decade or so.  The interesting thing is that the "flat" is, ummm, 50K plus for a closed car, 150K plus for an open car, and some really nice cars have sold well over those numbers.  "Flat"?  Well, OK, if six figures for a car that thirty years ago sold for five figures is "flat"........

 

Auburnseeker can identify with this.  Hypothetically, I'll give you 70K, and you have to go buy an open 810 or 812 Cord.  You might find a rough one, or you might find a stalled project, but you probably won't find one you can hop in and drive away from the seller.

 

Always an interesting discussion about how car values are falling, since the younger generation doesn't like that old stuff.  Hmmmm, doesn't seem to work that way...

 

 

[auburnseeker]

I admit,  mine is not on the road, as I have not decided which route to go with it as far as restoration is concerned.  

Even as involved as a Cord is,  it can't hold a candle to newer cars guys are messing with, with alot more complex wiring schematics than Cord could have ever dreamed up and emissions devices all that were notoriously flawed from day one.  It's just a matter of truly understanding how everything in the car functions.  Lots of Cord problems are from worn parts and linkages.  If it's put back to like new condition mechanically,  I doubt it will be highly troublesome,  especially if what has been learned and developed is applied to the car during restoration. 

I know that's easy to say as I'm not touring with mine so I haven't had the chance to fully enjoy one,  but honestly how many of the high dollar cars get heavily toured.  I know even the lowly 40 Ford I acquired this summer was fully restored and driven probably less than a 100 miles after that.  Alot of guys just don't drive their old cars that much and even of the ones that do,  they own multiple cars and one is their favorite so it gets the majority of use.  Not the other 2-200 they own.  

I own 3 other driveable cars and the only one that got any miles on it this year was my Hudson.  I can say I did put more hours on my Excavator though this summer and now my Tractor working on the new garage. 

Better example would be to look at the micro cars that are trading for crazy money.  You think fit finish and reliability are high on those collectors minds? 

Edited October 7, 2017 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[trimacar]

One more comment.  I own a very solid, complete, 1937 Cord standard phaeton, badly painted in the 1960's, and never restored. 

 

I was having transmission trouble, called a Cord expert, sure, he could fix, but he asked me...are you going to drive it at all?  Well, yeah, maybe not long tour, but here and there....his advice, if you have any mechanical ability at all, just jump in and work on it..because when you have trouble on the side of the road, believe me he said, you're the expert...

 

So I did, wiring, solenoid repair, some mechanical repair to the top of the shift mechanism, diaphragm replacement.....you Cord guys know the drill...and now I understand it, and can get home regardless.....

 

I will also say that a correctly restored Cord is one of the finest driving pre war cars that exist.  Not mine, but I've driven one that meets that criteria. . A lot of people reading this won't understand, but it's true...a car that's restored to new specifications can be a pleasure to drive, regardless of all the "trucky" and "poor design" comments you hear...

[trimacar]

Just for fun, and those who haven't seen it....the Darrin I did top and interior...the Cord phaeton I also did top and interior...Cord was a delight to drive, the Packard, while beautiful, was a little shaky....both cars done for the late Bill Pettit, a great guy...

[Guest SaddleRider]

35 minutes ago, trimacar said:

Just for fun, and those who haven't seen it....the Darrin I did top and interior...the Cord phaeton I also did top and interior...Cord was a delight to drive, the Packard, while beautiful, was a little shaky....both cars done for the late Bill Pettit, a great guy...

 

Can you tell us in more detail what was " a little shaky" about that Packard ?

 

While those "Darrins" were not built on a chassis & engine from the so called "Senior" Packard factory,  the "junior" Packards were (when properly returned to their designed condition)   absolutely charming to drive.  Superb driveability in all respects.

 

Yes, I agree....if the objective is just something that LOOKS pretty;  where the primary function is to run long enough to get from the transporter across the grass to its position on the show field -  any car can be reduced to "a little shaky" in various respects.

 

Is it possible you are just referring to "body flutter", and like ALL Packards of ALL the price-classes they decided to compete in,  it is a great driver ? 

If that is one of the first 'Darrins"....that is understandable.  To get the cars out the door as cheaply as possible, "Dutch" was buying "120" series coupes,  not the ones with the heavier frame bracing that Packard designed to be open cars.    Packard found out about it, brought the problem "in house"...the later Darrins had much better bracing and thus less "a little shaky" i.e. less body flutter.

 

Tell us more !

[auburnseeker]

I also find it ironic that the 36-37 Cord ,as I have been told by many, is the most conventional advanced ride of any prewar car.  If so that seems like that would make them a better car to buy.   Just a curiosity as I know they have been flat value wise but the Auburns seem to be on the rise.  In a way,  kind of doesn't make any sense.  

[edinmass]

21 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Just watched a 1933 Pierce-Arrow Silver Arrow sell for $2.1 million. That's more than any one before it. Your thesis is flawed.

 

The last Custom Silver Arrow sold for 3.1 if memory serves me. That was the 1933 Worlds Fair Car. I am very familiar with the one sold at Hershey, Friday morning several of us placed bets on the sale price. I managed to hit it within five percent. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

As to the value and market for pre war cars............. the market is all over the place. It's hard to nail down on any given auction, how well the sale will be attended. Most every car is common, and not difficult to duplicate. Example- even within the top tier of collector cars, let's pick on Duesenberg......... only ten percent of the entire surviving cars are considered deseriable by collectors. Yup, 90 percent of them are just run of the mill, common Model J's. Only a small select group of them are top tier. Try and buy one of the top tier J's......you will stand in a LONG line of potential buyers that will execute a sale in ten minutes. Truly rare and deseriable cars are difficult to acquire, and more often than not, it's not money that is the reason the car is sold. We took three cars to Hershey this year, all pre war CCCA cars, all rather rare and unique. Of the three, one was one of four known, one was one of seven known, and another was one of five known, we sold two of the three, quite fast and rather easily. Interestingly, the one I consider the most interesting, didn't sell. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by edinmass (see edit history)

[trimacar]

I mean no disrespect to the Darrins, they were, and are, absolutely beautiful cars.

 

Yes, I've driven properly restored Junior Packards, and they are a delight...good power, quick steering, light...very nice.

 

The Darrin used a Junior series chassis, with a cast aluminum cowl.  The hood was extended about four or five inches,  with metal welded to the tail end of hood pieces. Over restored cars, you might not be able to see this detail, but original cars you could plainly see the weld underneath that joined the metal.

 

The bodies, from the cast cowl back, were crudely fabricated.  Doors can be up to an inch different length each side, rear quarters don't match side to side, and the "gorilla"  welding of body panels (ugly but strong" is evident.  When you upholster such a car,  these things are what you're hiding as a trimmer.

 

Driving it, as I did, there's a LOT of cowl shake at certain speeds.

 

Yes, beautiful cars, and I've had two chances to easily own one, and foolishly passed.  Talk to anyone who's restored one, and see what they say....beautiful cars, cobbled together to sell, and not fine workmanship....

 

maybe they solved these these issues on the later cars....

[alsancle]

17 minutes ago, trimacar said:

The Darrin used a Junior series chassis, with a cast aluminum cowl.  The hood was extended about four or five inches,  with metal welded to the tail end of hood pieces. Over restored cars, you might not be able to see this detail, but original cars you could plainly see the weld underneath that joined the metal.

 

Dave,

 

1/2 the 39 & 40 cars were 120's but the other 1/2 were 180 senior chassis.  I've done lots and lots of miles driving the later and it is a great car to drive.   I will agree with you that underneath there is some crude workmanship, i.e. hammer marks everywhere. 

 

On the Cord,  I think the mechanical reputation scares people away in much the same way it does on the PI Rolls.     However,  a properly sorted Cord is a dream to drive and a blown car is really a blast.

 

As for the market,  the sky has been following for a long time.  However, I agree there are demographic trends that are not great as a whole.   I felt the Hershey Auction felt soft on many prices.  The Silver Arrow was 1 million less than the last one that sold.  Could be for lots of reasons,  the last one was the actual auto show car,  etc.   But still...

[trimacar]

The Derro Silver Arrow is one of four, as is known,  and the people really in the know about that particular car realize that it needs a restoration to be a world class car.  I feel that fact influenced the selling price considerably.  There are few secrets in the high end Full Classic world....

 

The Darrin I reference drove OK, but had some shake, so may have been based on a Junior chassis as you mention.

 

I own a worn out, original, Cord 812, and while it goes down the road fine, it drives NOTHING like the perfectly restored car that I trimmed out for Bill...what a delight to drive, easy shift, easy steer, perfect braking....wonderful cars if correct...

[alsancle]

20 minutes ago, trimacar said:

The Derro Silver Arrow is one of four, as is known,  and the people really in the know about that particular car realize that it needs a restoration to be a world class car.  I feel that fact influenced the selling price considerably.  There are few secrets in the high end Full Classic world....

 

When Tom first bought this car I got to see quite a bit of it apart and you are 100% right.   It does present nicely but should be restored completely.

[edinmass]

It's a great car, and I have had an opportunity to play with it, and it needs a restoration that will be quite challenging. Looking at the last car that sold for 3.1, this car reflects the cost of the work required to bring it up to PB standards.

[60FlatTop]

On 10/6/2017 at 8:10 PM, papafarms said:

Hi everyone, i would like to get some opinions from anyone who has noticed this, or is it me, I have noticed that pre-war cars are dropping in value

 

Maybe the term "pre-war" applied to a period so many wars ago has some bearing on the interest group. What was that, about 80 or 90 years ago (rhetorical question). So much nice stuff has been built since then.

Bernie

[SC38dls]

9 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

 

Maybe the term "pre-war" applied to a period so many wars ago has some bearing on the interest group. What was that, about 80 or 90 years ago (rhetorical question). So much nice stuff has been built since then.

Bernie

The war they call the “Great War” was about 100 years ago but that was WWI. But the younger generation doesn’t even know where it was fought as they don’t teach history in schools anymore!  Sorry - Off the soapbox now. 

[padgett]

Suspect part is that "pre-war" now means "before Vietnam", all of which are AACA eligible and marks the age group that is now retiring.

 

Every year the pool of AACA cars grows and now must compete with hot rods, resto-mods, and replicas most of which have automatics, AC, brakes that do not go away when it gets wet, and wonderful parts availability from Jeggs, Amazon, and Rock. Many of these have never used a clutch.

 

The final nail is that many interesting used cars (like Merc SLK retractables) are now under $10k for under 100k miles and have equally fanatical forums so DIY is not difficult.

 

Just consider what was available and how hard it was to get parts when the AACA was formed vs this century. Even though the population is growing, millennials are into things with touch screens for the right hand and not sticks so flattening despite inflation is understandable.

[alsancle]

It is inevitable that the "hobby" will change or shrink or both.    My current mindset is that I'm going to ignore the market and if necessary be buried with whatever I have left for cars.   Maybe in 20 years it will just be me a few other 75 year old guys enjoying them but  I'm definitely not going to change my tastes to suit changing demographics. 

[edinmass]

39 minutes ago, alsancle said:

It is inevitable that the "hobby" will change or shrink or both.    My current mindset is that I'm going to ignore the market and if necessary be buried with whatever I have left for cars.   Maybe in 20 years it will just be me a few other 75 year old guys enjoying them but  I'm definitely not going to change my tastes to suit changing demographics. 

 

I agree.......I can't wait to buy a DV32 or a Custom Dietrich 12 for 50k! ?

[motoringicons]

I am hoping that the market for early cars crashes between now and the Bothwell Collection auction in Los Angeles. There are a few cars I would like to buy for my own collection.....

 

Probably won't happen.

 

I got into early (brass era) cars in the late 1970s when I was a kid. I remember in the early 1980s when the older collectors were crying that the market for early cars would be non-existent by 1990. 

 

I remember being at a Brucker/Movie World Auction when a barrel sided Duesenberg J phaeton sold for 100,000.00. It was a record price for such a car. I also remember when the above mentioned Pierce Silver Arrow was on display at Brucker's museum. He would tell people he turned down 250,000.00 for it. People thought he was full of crap and knowing Jim, he may have been. Many of the local car clubs would host swap meets in the parking lot of Brucker's Movie World/Cars of the Stars. There were always lots of restored brass Model Ts and Model A roadsters and phaetons priced less than 3,000.00. Black era Model Ts and closed Model As could be had for about 2,000.00. I also remember an incomplete and unrestored Oldsmobile Limited sitting on a trailer with a price of 25,000.00. It didn't sell.

[robcars]

The thing is people generally buy what they grew up with wanted as a child. I go to Horseless Carriage Club meets and CCCA meets. I am the youngest member with a car by 30 years and I am 50. They younger people are in tow with older family members. Is is just like the collector market in is dying. The Baby Boomers were the last big collector generation left. I have friends my age and they say nice car but non of them want one or want to ever try to drive mine when I offer. I can remember I have my 63 Cadillac and went to a meet at 18 in the Redwoods. The cars were 20's to  50's . Then went in my late 30s the cars were 60 and 70s. the same people that said my 25 year old Cadillac was to new were driving 15 year old cars. I did mention how they had a double standard. Now they are all dead and their cars are who knows were. Families still think they have a gold brick and try for high prices.

 

Today's Bargain may be tomorrows high price!