old stored vintage tires , useable ?

[goatboy]

i just bought a set of very very nice wide white, allstate brand that had been in a garage and still had the plastic wrap on them.

these tires are still soft not hard at all and cleaned up brand new, my question is how many of you have done this for an old car and had good luck, bad luck, whats your stories? i am putting them on my 38 studebaker and it will prolly never see much over 55mph, so how safe are these?

thx for your input

goatboy

[keiser31]

Didn't we just answer this question a couple of days ago?

[SC38dls]

22 minutes ago, keiser31 said:

Didn't we just answer this question a couple of days ago?

It may help him if you remember what thread the answer was in. 

Goatboy you may want to do a search for it or check out the AACA Tires section. 

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[goatboy]

i dont know, didnt see the thread, i will look around

[padgett]

If it were me I would not trust over 10 mph. If need to drive I'd have a second set of wheels and tires for driving and save these for shows.

 

Does bring up a question: for  AACA judging, do the original type/size tires need to be mounted on the car, or is it ok to have in a stack next to it "not for road use".

[goatboy]

i did find a thread about this issue it has both good and bad results, im gonna try it because i do know a lot of people that are driving this type of car with old tires and no issues. i will probably be "the one " that loses.

thx

goatboy

[C Carl]

Hey Goat' : Consider this old goat's (I even look like one with my goat beard) , advice. Mount them up and balance them as well as technology will permit. Check , and maybe shave them as round as technology will permit. Pressure up to max load bearing capacity (you will want as little flex as possible). Drive under 30 for 100 local miles. If you start to develop any vibration whatsoever , you will know everything HAD been right , and is not now. In that case , use the tires for show only , or sell them to someone who will do exactly that with them. If still totally smooth and unchanged after 100 miles at 30 mph , do another 150 miles under 40. Still good ? 100 miles under 45. Still good ? Go ahead driving 50. Think about never exceeding 50 on these old tires , as the difference in driving time from point A to point B will be insignificant , and if you try to hold 50 , you stand a very good chance of not inadvertently hitting 60. Make sense ? Please let us know how you get on with this. Welcome to AACA forums !   - Carl

[Bhigdog]

6 hours ago, padgett said:

Does bring up a question: for  AACA judging, do the original type/size tires need to be mounted on the car, or is it ok to have in a stack next to it "not for road use".

 

Yeah sure. Just as soon as it's OK to have a "correct" but dead battery sitting next to the car with a sign that says "Not for starting use".................Bob

[Bhigdog]

4 minutes ago, C Carl said:

Please let us know how you get on with this

 Assuming of course you don't have a blow out and hit a tree @ 50 MPH..........................Bob

[padgett]

When you find an original battery, that will be fine. I use AGMs in my drivers.

 

ps no GM car was produced with an R59 battery.

[keiser31]

I will say what I have said before....as an ex-Firestone Tire Company employee, I would never use tires that old for driving on. Static display or roll around only, but not on the roads. Tires can deteriorate from the inside as well as the outside and even plastic wrapped tire will age.

[Guest]

Always think about, the people around you on the sidewalk, street or road.  If you have a blowout you are probably safe, surrounded by a solid heavy car.  They have no chance. you could  kill or maim them.   After attending many hundreds of automobile incidents with the Coroner's services I have never seen an accident.  Every single one was caused by improper maintenance, alcohol, speed or just plain stupidity.  An accident would be something that just happened (something that no one had any control over) and I have never attended at one of those.  In several jurisdictions we even had Police Officers that would not refer to these incidents as accidents.  Every single one was caused by someone not doing what they should have or doing something they shouldn't have done.  Laws and rules don't make us safe,  our common sense and the common sense of those around us is our only protection.

I had several OMG incidents when I first started driving, haven't had one in over 55 years. In my first two years driving my speeding fines exceeded my wages, haven't had a ticket now in 56 years.

[60FlatTop]

From my observations, the 30-40 year old tires are the ones owners take off and replace with radials. Then say "Wow! My car never drove so well!"

 

How much did you pay for the Studebaker?

How much did you pay for the tires?

Do you carry a leather change purse with three quarters in it for waitress tips?

 

On Sunday I told my Wife I don't do stereotypes, but I do gather facts and make generalizations.

 

Oh, whenever I see a cop writing a ticket I step on the gas and say "Cop's busy."

 

And you knew it was wrong to use those like new tires, or you wouldn't have asked. My kids are like that.

Bernie

[SC38dls]

I guess I would not use them if the car is a daily driver. If you really need to use them and you know it will not go over 30 mph maybe I would try them as most cars with good working brakes should be able to stop if a blow out occurs. One blow out and they would be gone if mine.

Is it really worth taking a chance hurting someone or damaging your car?  

[victorialynn2]

Personally I have been told not to trust tires over 5 years old no matter how good they look. I am buying new for the 57 even though they seem to drive well. There is a way to date tires. 

I'm going to replace the bias ply wide whites with new wide white radials. I don't want to damage my car or anyone else. Small price to pay for safety and I'm told will drive much better. 

[28 Chrysler]

I have some 35+ year old tires that are still pliable and have a pair of 18 year old tires that still hold air but are cracking and crumbling apart.

The cotton in the old tires is most likely weak and rotted , The newer rubber compounds are not as stable and the steal cords are barely holding it together.

[keiser31]

On 7/31/2017 at 8:23 AM, goatboy said:

i dont know, didnt see the thread, i will look around

I remember now that my first answer regarding your question about tires was on the H.A.M.B. and not on the AACA forum. Sorry about the mistake on my part.

[victorialynn2]

On another, but related note, I ordered some Coker wide white radials today for the '57 that are in the vintage style. A friend suggested I list the vintage bias ply that are on it on Craigslist. They look fine but I am replacing them simply because Imagine they are probably several years old. I can't even change a tire so I don't want to risk it. They are 8.00-14 Good Year wide whites. 

 

Would it be ethical to sell them, is there a market and if so, what would you ask? They are quite expensive new (almost $200 each plus shipping) and they have very little wear. I have not looked for a date code yet. 

 

I can't even tell you how many new looking tires I took out of dad's garages and brought to the dump simply because I know they have been sitting at least 5+ years. 

 

This is is a pic of a vintage bias ply like what is on the car now. 

Edited August 2, 2017 by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

[Bloo]

Someone will want them. If not here, probably on the HAMB.

[victorialynn2]

17 minutes ago, Bloo said:

Someone will want them. If not here, probably on the HAMB.

Any idea what a fair price range would be in almost new looking condition?

[Bloo]

No, I dont know what they're worth...

 

[mike6024]

The date of manufacture is the last four digits of the DOT code. The first two digits are the week of manufacture, and the last two digits are the year. For example, if the last four digits of the DOT code are 0203, that means that the tire was manufactured during the second week of the year 2003.

 

 

http://www.tirebuyer.com/education/how-to-determine-the-age-of-your-tires

 

For tires manufactured in the year 2000 – present
The date of manufacture is the last four digits of the DOT code. The first two digits are the week of manufacture, and the last two digits are the year. For example, if the last four digits of the DOT code are 0203, that means that the tire was manufactured during the second week of the year 2003. Pretty simple, right? However…if your tires were made before 2000, it gets a bit more complicated.

For tires manufactured before the year 2000
The date of manufacture is the last three digits of the code. The first two digits refer to the week within that year. For example, if the last 3 digits are 022, it means that the tire was manufactured in the second week of the year, and the year is the second year of the decade. This is where it gets confusing -- there's no universal identifier that signifies which decade, so in this example the tire could have been manufactured in 1982 or 1992. Some tires do have a small triangle following the DOT code to indicate the 1990s.

Seeing an incomplete DOT number?
If you look at the tires sidewall and see a DOT number that appears to be incomplete, that's because the DOT's current regulations require the entire number to be branded on only one sidewall, while the opposite sidewall is branded with just the first few digits. To see the entire DOT number, just look on the other sidewall.

[Dynaflash8]

If they are radial, which I suspect not, then I would not use them for a farm tractor.  However, if they are bias, I would.  I ran a set of Universal double white wall 6.50x16 tires for over 30 years and they were still good, except one was going bald.  Young people don't remember Rayon and Nylon tires before radials.  They almost never got too old.  Bias tires introduced for modern cars in the 80s were a different composition.  I bought those Universal Tires in 1971 and didn't replace them until about 2007.  Tires bought in 2007 have not been nearly so good.  Radial tires are said to last only 7 years, but on my trailer they last 3

[Restorer32]

I grew up in Dad's tire and recap shop in the 1960's. He regularly recapped tires that were 10 or more years old. Now and then a recap would fly off but I don't remember any tires actually blowing out in use. He recapped one set of trailer tires 12 times over 15 years or so for a fellow who transported mobile homes, known as house trailers back in the day.

[FLYER15015]

Ooooops

[60FlatTop]

We kept casings in the loft of the back barn and it stacks outside in the back.

 

If we were just selling a load of casings for cash we pulled them from the outside pile, dipped out the water, and wiped them with a sponge.

If we were sending in our own casings to be capped and returned to us we always picked the dry ones from inside the barn.

 

Dry times in July and August were the best times to cap. Wet or damp tires could create small steam pockets during the heating process. That is where the separations would start.

 

I guess one could say choosing the dry casings for us was our way of mitigating our risk, although the risk still existed. Selling old tires passes the risk to someone who may or may not know the risk. Send a PM to Goatboy and ask what he paid. Selling old tires can't have nearly the risk of disposing of nuclear waste.

 

Personally, I would only sell them to a friend, too risky to sell to a stranger. (I bet you can hear your Dad saying that, can't you, Victoria Lynn.)

 

Bernie

 

[Bloo]

One thing to keep in mind is that the leading cause of tire failure is heat caused by underinflation. This was true before people started obsessing over date codes, and will likely remain true in the future.

 

[padgett]

Underinflation and overloading. Everyone know what a Load Rating is ? Wonder every time I see a lowrider with teensy fronts. Only thing worse are shows where they air up the tires on a barn find and head out on city streets.

[Dynaflash8]

11 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

I grew up in Dad's tire and recap shop in the 1960's. He regularly recapped tires that were 10 or more years old. Now and then a recap would fly off but I don't remember any tires actually blowing out in use. He recapped one set of trailer tires 12 times over 15 years or so for a fellow who transported mobile homes, known as house trailers back in the day.

Yes that is so true.  Everybody thinks radials are safer.  That is such bunk.  They drive straighter down truck rutted roads, yes.  They last 3 times as many miles before going bald if you can drive that far in six years, yes.  But they blow out when they get old.  I started driving in 1954 and I never ever experienced a blowout until I got a radial tire, and when they blow, they can take your fender off.  And, those tires they were recapping in the 1960s were not "bias tiresl".  I can remember when Ford introduced "bias tires".  They are the last newer type of manufacture before radial tires.  Good tread mileage on a new tire produced in 1959 was 22,000 miles based on my experience.  And you could drive them totally bald if you were crazy enough

[Restorer32]

Another thing I've noticed. Dad was a Cooper Tire dealer. When balancing a tire, if it required more than 3 ounces, which was rare, he would complain to the distributor. Even his recaps seldom needed more than an ounce or two of weights. Several months ago I treated my Ram Diesel to a set of Michelins. All four tires required three ounces or more to balance. Few now remember how popular recaps were, especially snow tires. Dad ran the recap equipment 24 hrs/day for several months in preparation for that first hint of snow in the Fall.

[Restorer32]

I ran recaps on my Jag for the year it was my only means of transportation. Never had a problem either with the recaps or the "out of date" casings wearing the caps.

[padgett]

Remember when Casler cheater slicks were the way to go and those were recaps.

 

BTW AFAIR Bias was the original method of laying cord for a tire - in alternating angles. Meanwhile in the '50s (?) Michelin (X stop) Radials became porpular here with lower rolling resistance, less temperature build up, and a rep for suddenly losing traction in the wet.

 

In the late 60s radials became so popular (think the Lincoln Continental MK III was the first American car to have standard radials) that the tire companies countered with something called a "bias/belted" tire that was more marketing than substance.

 

My '78 Sunbird came with a set of Firestone 500 radials that shall live in infamy.

 

That said modern radials are very good and I buy mostly Michelin or BFGs (same company) these days.

[C Carl]

I too buy mostly BFG and Michelin. I am also looking into some of the state of the art directional and asymmetrical tires which have recently been introduced in a few light truck sizes. Relatively expensive , that is what I like ! I kind of figure you get what pay for in general. When it comes to handling , I will go for the best , and forget the rest.   - Carl

[Guest SaddleRider]

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 5:54 PM, victorialynn2 said:

Personally I have been told not to trust tires over 5 years old no matter how good they look. ......

I'm going to replace the bias ply wide whites with new wide white radials. I don't want to damage my car or anyone else. Small price to pay for safety and I'm told will drive much better. 

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

As others have pointed out,  rubber technology has changed down thru the years,  and not necessarily for the better in all respects. As others in here have pointed out,   modern tires may not, from a TIME standpoint,  be as stable & as durable as the rubber of previous eras.  But also as others have pointed out,  the fabric internal structure is time-sensitive even in storage,   meaning the tire can look fine externally,  but not be strong enough to be safe in use.

 

Amongst so called " collector car" tires these days,  there are marked differences in quality.    Especially the so called "bias" types.    Over the years I had THREE high-speed blow-outs with a well-known major "collector car' brand.  In fairness, bias tires are not suited to modern speeds,  given the phenomena of "internal heat-generating flexing". 

 

As a side-note, a high speed blow out  WITH A BIAS tire in a huge, heavy collector car like mine,  with its superior handling/suspension,  is pretty much a non-event.   Just inconvenient  ( damn the fellow who designed my side-mount covers.....!)     

 

That's one big advantage the bias tires had compared to radial tires - when a modern radial blows out - admittedly a VERY rare event,   it can come completely apart, and in doing so, cause major damage - even ripping fenders clear off cars !

 

Bottom line - I join with the others in here who recommend using modern radials from a major manufacturer.

[goatboy]

thx to all for your messages, i will pass on how they do as i get them going, its gonna be a while before i get them on the road

[cutlasguy]

When I bought my Olds at Carlisle, it had a set of Radial Whitewalls on it. After driving it with them for a few years, I decided that a new set with raised white letters was in order, so I had the old ones taken off and stored them in the basement because they still had good tread. After five years I decided to take them to the recycling center because they took up too much space. When I tried to pick them up, the beading disintegrated in my hands. All around, the beading just flaked off about a half inch into the tire. I vowed to never purchase an old tire ever, no matter how cheap!

[Ivan Saxton]

In late 1969, with the help of a friend, I did a rebuild for road use, in 4 1/2 months, of the car I used for the 1970 FIVA "International Rally" from Sydney(New South  Wales), back to Melbourne ( Victoria).  My tyres then were only good enough to stand it up.  So I was very pleased when Goodyear here in Australia issued a promotional brochure.   "Christmas is Cartime at Goodyear.   Right up to '69 -- no matter what you drive -- we'll get you set for the holidays".  So I ordered a set of six with new tubes.   There was a Mercer L-head photograph for 1922, it was a Raceabout, but the same 6.00x23" tyres as I needed for my 1918 Mercer Sporting.  They have still not supplied my new tyres to this day;  though the local Goodyear Tyre Service manager investigated, and said they still had the 6.00x23"moulds.   I managed to buy enough 8 ply tyres that had been replaced on fire trucks in Sydney.  I always ran them with about 60psi so the sidewalls did not overheat by flexing, and destroy the cords.  I never had a blow-out.  On fire trucks they would not have received much degradation from ultraviolet light exposure.  Nor much mileage wear either.  I was told they were over 30 years old.  But the long established tyre dealer felt they were good enough to keep someone else rolling.

A couple of lifetime limiting factors are the additives in the rubber,  and the material of the reinforcing woven structure.  Most of the aircraft tyres that we had from war surplus had Rayon.  This was probably fine at the time.   But a friend got some small tail-wheel tyres from me because he knew people who needed them.   That was good until the RAAF carried one as a spare inside an aircraft, and apparently took it to an altitude  where the inflation pressure proved enough to explode it due to the degraded rayon  inside where it was invisible.     And some filler pigments may not well protect the rubber well from UV light.   I could not support any general recommendation on this subject.   How fast did I travel in the Mercer?  I do not know because the speedometer was not restored or connected.  I drove the car at the speed it wanted to cruise.  And Morris Burrows told me later that "Mercers do not like parades".    One day on that 1970 tour a girl wanted to ride with me on one morning stage.   Her family were running in a modern car to enjoy seeing the antiques.  They said that they left ten minutes after me, and only caught up at the lunch stop.

[mrspeedyt]

i would have no issue with bias 'rag' tires. ran old bias tires on both my desoto and cadillac until selling. on the otherhand... steel belted radials are a gamble. regardless of the age. if you detect ANY new slight vibration check for an 'out of round' tire. the belt could be coming apart. but radial does drive nicer. and they seem to have less problems now. my last car radial failure was about 8 years ago on my toyota tacoma. did over $2000 worth of damage.and it was less than 5 years old. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by mrspeedyt (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 10:47 AM, C Carl said:

I too buy mostly BFG and Michelin.   - Carl

 

Same company.  Both Michelin.

[padgett]

If care, the lineup is Michelin (premium tires), BFG (midrange), and Uniroyal (remember Uni, Roy, and Al ?)

 

"given the phenomena of "internal heat-generating flexing". "  I remember ads when Radials came out showing a standing wave building up on the leading edge of a bias tire. AFAIR radial race tires came along much later than passenger tires and was told that was because early radials suffered from sudden breakaway particularly when damp.

Edited August 14, 2017 by padgett (see edit history)