Guest wingski Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 Hi, I'm a 73 year young man who has just joined to get some good advice. I want to get a 1931 Ford Tudor to use as a daily or weekly driver. I've been trying to find a car with modern running gear and brakes because of the speed and distance I'll be driving the car each week. Probably 50 to 100 miles at 55 mph. I'd also like to get a car that my wife would enjoy driving, so maybe an automatic transmission. I am not into muscle cars, so a four cylinder overhead cam engine would be great. One of the biggest problems I have is the heat where we live. It is so hot for at least four months out of the year that AC is not an option. I would like to get a nice looking car, but not a show car because it would attract too much attention. I want a tudor because I've never had one and I need an enclosed car for the AC. The only person I want to impress with this car is my wife and maybe my cat and dog. I am still mechanical and have all the tools except a welder. I just do things a lot slower with a lot more breaks than I use to. I'm open to any and all suggestions
mercer09 Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 sounds like you are looking for a Shay repro car. that would click the box for the auto and air............ my suggestion is to head to the Ford Barn site and post the same request- you will get a multitude of answers. some guys there live in AZ and have put air in their A's-others have made them automatic, because of old age and shifting problems. you will get much more feedback there- and by the way, dont think you cant just drive a stock A 55 mph at around 100 miles a week-you can. being done often and all over the world! 3
Guest Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 A 6 cylinder car would be better. I've been driving mine for 58 years and have put 400.000 miles on my Grandfather's 99,000 mile only new car.
Guest wingski Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 Thanks for your input, guys. I would love to get a Shay or one of the other replicas available, but I haven't found any manufacturer that made Tudors. We've had at least a week of over 100 degree days so far and an open car is just not practical. Now, as to the hydraulic brakes verses mechanical brakes let me share an adventure that happened in 1958. I grew up in Milwaukie, Oregon and when I was 13 I bought my first A. It was a beautiful 1931 five window coupe in very good condition and was rust and dent free. My Mom drove my Dad and me out to Hillsboro, Oregon, which was about twenty-five miles from where we lived and I paid $25 for the car. My Dad had to actually buy it because I was under age with no driver's license. On the way home, Dad drove the car without any problem. He even told me that I'd bought one heck of nice car. That was on the flat roads and everything was great until we came to Terwilliger Blvd. Terwilliger was a steep downhill road that dropped from the flat land down to the Willamette River, and it was more than a 6% grade with a 90 degree turn at the bottom that dropped you down to a stop sign on Macadam Blvd. Macadam was one of the busier roads in Portland at that time and it still is. That last 90 degree turn was a short stretch of road, but it had to be an 8 degree drop down to that stop sign. After that day, I hated that road right up until the City of Portland removed that last turn and straightened out Terwilliger. Back to the adventure, about half way down Terwilliger, Dad had to start riding the drainage ditch with the right front wheel. In and out of that ditch anything to slow that car down. It felt and sounded like we were going to tear the front axle out as it dragged on the asphalt on the edge of the road, but it slowed the car down. My Dad was a very strong in his upper body because he was a cement finisher, but he was shaking by the time we approached that final 90 degree turn. I won't say it was a miracle that the traffic opened up for us as we went through that stop sign and turned right onto Macadam, but it was close to being one because we sure couldn't stop. We didn't talk at all as Dad drove across the Sellwood Bridge and the final two or three miles to get home. When we arrived and got out of the car, Dad said, "You're not driving this thing until you've put hydraulic brakes on it, and I mean it !" When I pulled the brake drums off the car the next day, the shoes were fine, not down to the rivets at all. The brake rods were just not able to handle that type of braking. So, my first major job on my '31 A was to put '47 or '48 Mercury brakes, lines, and master cylinder on it. You guys can talk all day about how great mechanical brakes are, but I'll never forget that day or the look on my Dad's face as he fought to keep that car from going out of control.
hddennis Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 I can appreciate how scared everyone was at the time but have to add that it was the fault of the last owner's inability to properly adjust or adequately repair the mechanical brakes. If all 1931 Fords were this scary there would be none left today. Are they as good as hydraulics? No but they are not worthless either or Ford wouldn't have been able to sell them for nearly a decade later. Howard Dennis 1
Rusty_OToole Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) You know if you buy a Ford one year newer it will come with a V8 and 55 will be no problem. Or if you want hydraulic brakes buy a Plymouth, they had them 10 years before Ford. As Tinindian pointed out there are lots of cars better than a Ford, that came with 6 cylinder engines and hydraulic brakes. Edited July 18, 2017 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) 1
CarlLaFong Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 You want hydraulic brakes, A/C and be able to drive it every day at highway speeds. What you want is called a street rod. 1
mike6024 Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) How about a truck? Swap a 2.3 mustang engine with automatic into this one. It does not run currently and the price reflects that. It's in Portland. 1929 ford model A - $4800, or best offer, Phone - (509) 948-3981 https://portland.craigslist.org/grg/cto/d/ford-model/6224423538.html Edited July 18, 2017 by mike6024 (see edit history)
tomcarnut Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 I believe I saw Model A Ford sedan with A/C and a four banger( maybe a model B)once on tour in Northern Ohio AACA Ohio Region tour about 10 years ago. It was set up as a taxi and was driven around the country. They will run at 55 ok with an overdrive. Mechanical brakes are fine if set up right. In fact much safer than single cylinder master cars till 1967. May want to ask around on a Model A Ford site. Tom Muth Cincinnati, Ohio
Rusty_OToole Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 Did a quick search for 1931 Model A tudor sedans, there are hundreds of them for sale, possibly thousands. Many have V8 engines, automatic, modern brakes and air conditioning. Get set to pay $30,000 to $40,000. Probably a bargain for the right car considering what it would cost to buy a decent A and have it modified, not to mention the time element. Shay is no good they were all roadsters.
vermontboy Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 I ran 600-16's on my Model "A" and had no trouble locking up all four wheels with mechanical brakes- yours were grossly out of adjustment.
Guest wingski Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 I've been checking every site I can find throughout the U.S. and have only found two or three tudors that have modern four cylinder engines in them. I've always considered a street rod to be a car with a lot bigger engine than the original, and a muscle car is pretty self explanatory. I don't want either of those. I want an A because I love their looks, especially the 1931. I can go out and buy a pretty decent stock 28-31 A tudor, but my age and arthritis limit me when it comes to converting it to modern brakes and running gear. So, I've got to buy something that is at least partially updated. I can still install rack and pinion steering if it didn't already have it, but it would take me awhile. That's good because I need projects to keep me sane, but I know my limitations. I'm including a picture of my pride and joy which I'll have to get rid of if I get a tudor, but that's OK because I've had it for 15 years.
John_S_in_Penna Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) Mr. Wingski, have you considered getting your favorite Model A Tudor and using it only periodically, as a collector car and a car for scenic week-end drives? That way you'll be able to enjoy it as much or as little as you want, keep it authentic, and not be held back by its limitations. Maybe you'll put a few thousand miles on it per year. Using it when the weather is good, and driving it on roads that you'll enjoy, it will remain in better condition and it should maintain its value. I think some others enjoy their cars this way, too. Edited July 18, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)
Guest wingski Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 My wife and I are retired, and I've learned that boredom and inactivity are two of main reasons why old people don't get older. I must stay physically active and mechanical work comes naturally to me. So, to be active and happy I need a wrench in my hand. To me, a mechanical challenge makes all the negative things that surround me recede into the background so i can deal with them. Or not. I've always done all my mechanical work myself unless I didn't have the equipment. So, my getting a Tudor is not just some old guy wanting another toy, it's something that will make me live longer, live happier, and probably bleed a lot. I love the fact that you guys are allowing me to share with you and that you are sharing with me. Thank you.
SC38dls Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 Go for what you like. I had a 49 F3 Ford pickup I totally redid. It came out of the last barn in Chicago. Took 20 years to get it done with life and dollars. Drove it twice and felt I had to sell it because my legs don't work like they use too from football injuries and I was worried I couldn't go from the gas to the break fast enough in an emergency. The truck cab is very small on leg room. I looked around and found this Studebaker. Plenty of room, fun to drive, not too expensive, not very common and still easy to work on. It's my daily driver. I don't go too far but have made a few trips of over 250 miles and it ran well. Like I said go for it. 1
old car fan Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 W e have a 30 coupe,original,it will do 55 .more pleasing at 45.You are retired take your time and enjoy like they did in the day'As far as value in the long term,a replica vs original,Who knows,i like the real ones
old car fan Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 Sc,lovley car,i am a stud fan for years. Glad you found this on
CarlLaFong Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 I see that you now want rack and pinion. You are really straying from a simple brake swap and engine upgrade into definite street rod mods. R&P doesn't play well with the straight axle on an early Ford. Lots of bump steer and other weird maladies. So then, a Mustang II swap is the next step. Also, the rear suspension will have to be redone,as well since the torque tube will not mate up with an automatic transmission. It's going to be a slippery slope
mercer09 Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 there are folks that sell revamped f150 steering boxes, that make steering an A a breeze. Might be the better choice then rack and pinion........... love the :modern: headlights on that Stude!
John348 Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 I myself don't think it is a good idea as an everyday car in the age of cell phones and distracted drivers. When these cars were on the road new everyone was on the same playing field driving. I had sold my 31 Chevy because of two real close calls with distracted drivers on a back roads during off hours. Again it depends where you live and what the weather is like. Get caught in a severe thunderstorm with old slow wipers and dim lights,
Guest wingski Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Thanks to you all. This is why I joined this forum. SC, I love the Stuudy, but that dog is awesome. We have a double doodle named Doobie who looks similar to yours. When I started working on A's, I didn't learn by doing things right and I sure didn't have internet. Lay it on me guys, life is too short for me to make mistakes like I did when I was younger. So, I appreciate any and all comments. The comment about the F150 steering box was great, thanks. I realize that since I never had an A that drove and handled like a modern car, that is my dream. I can't even imagine what it would be like to have an A that behaved like a new small or medium sized car. Has anyone ever heard of an A with front wheel drive? I realize that I'm venturing into the street rod realm, but a lowered A with independent suspension front and rear and a good performing engine with a five or six speed tranny. WOW! The idea of a '31 Tudor going into a corner and coming out at a faster speed just tickles the cockles of my heart. As the Everly brothers sang, "Dream, dream,dream."
cahartley Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Chevy Vega steering boxes seem to be the steering box of choice for Model A's. They don't cast too much either.
emjay Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Wingski, you outlook on life activity is aligned with mine and probably most of the members here. Quality time in the workshop is much better than time on the fairway and you have something to show for your efforts. Also on hot rods. So much of that part of the hobby is hung up on horsepower. There's got to be a decent size market for the same builders to take someone's favorite vehicle and modernize it with a modest power source. Then you have something that is a bit more practical to use more often than a 10MPH lump that keeps spinning it's tires. I'm sure some builders get the occasional request but you just don't hear much about it. Of course it costs more than an already built one, but working with a hot rod builder near you would give you just what you want and you might be able to do some of the work. Another direction you might want to look into is electric.
C Carl Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Wing' , I am very impressed with your emphasis on handling. That is the real problem with velocity enhancement of old crates. Acceleration through corners ? Uh HUH ! FWD ! Yeah ! Go for it man ! FWD powertrains make a good "plug in" conversion ,though not done every week in the hotrod world. Did you ever see that old pickup truck Sonny Wisner put the big block FWD Eldo in 40 some years ago up in Seattle ? That thing has so many carbs sticking out of it that it looks like a pork'pine. Sonny is one of the greatest of the creative old school hotrodders in the area. He is pushing 80 now , in fine health , still totally involved in old cars. He would have good info on FWD conversions. If you don't know him , I can put you in touch. I am also 73. Dad "Learned me up" when I was a teenager , also. I had saved my nickels and I saved my dimes from paper route , and summer work. Like most other guys on the forum , obsessed with old cars from a very early age. Finally able to buy one , I found a '27 Pierce Arrow sedan for $450 in the paper. I did not know how to drive a crashbox , so I took my dad. He drove it , parked it , and growled "You don't want this car , son. It's got mechanical brakes". So I bought a '39 Cadillac model 60S for $100 instead. Very large capable brakes. I think Dad had a point. I was kind of a wild kid , I might have even put the P.A. on its side. Yes. Yes indeed ! Handling , brother. That is the most important aspect of what you are doing. Welcome to the AACA forums ! There are plenty of closet hotrodders 'round here. They "come out" from time to time too ! I will be following your progress with great interest. Particularly FWD. Keep a lot of weight foreward , and plan for state of the art high pressure, low slip angle performance tires up front. It is tons of fun to exit a tight corner faster than you entered , with the go pedal firmly planted in the firewall and the ass end flung out. I hope I see your creation and get to meet you ! - Cadillac Carl Edited July 19, 2017 by C Carl Spelling (see edit history)
mercer09 Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Posted 4 hours ago · Report post I myself don't think it is a good idea as an everyday car in the age of cell phones and distracted drivers. When these cars were on the road new everyone was on the same playing field driving. I had sold my 31 Chevy because of two real close calls with distracted drivers on a back roads during off hours. Again it depends where you live and what the weather is like. Get caught in a severe thunderstorm with old slow wipers and dim lights, wingski likes this John, cant blame you- Long Island is a nightmare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:(
hddennis Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Wrong year but it's still a Model A. I was blown away the first time I saw this: Howard Dennis 2
CarlLaFong Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 FWD?!?!?! This is going from the ridiculous to the sublime. Look at any FWD powertrain. The transmission sits at the rear of most all of them. This pushes the engine at least 10 to 12 ahead of the axle centerline. On a Model A, this would require one of two choices, both equally absurd. Either push the radiator forward to keep the wheels under the crown of the fenders or move the fenders back. Either way, You will end up with a silly looking, bucktoothed abortion. Similar atrocities can be seen on eBay all the time where a shadetree "craftsman" has grafted an early body onto a late chassis
Brass is Best Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 How about one of these nice Model A sedans? More information at www.petersmotorcars.com Happy Motoring, Andy
lump Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Wow, HDdennis. Amazing video. At first I assumed it was an original Model A Ford engine and trans, and so I was wondering what he did to the trans to make it shift upward so smoothly, and to downshift cleanly.
C Carl Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Oops ! CLF John , yeah you are absolutely right ! I enjoy driving FWD hard and fast to such a degree that excitement got the best of me and I didn't think it through . Rats ! Back to the drawing board ! - CC
C Carl Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 Hmmmmmmmm ............... mmmmmmmmmmmm........... I'm going to break out the tape and measure something up when I get back to the Westside junk yard from the Eastside ranch. Mmmmmmmmmmuuffff................ Hmmmmmm ? I sure hope it pencils out. I will admit my potentially embarrassing notion AFTER a feasibility study. As it is strictly hypothetical at this point , totally without data , no sense rattling cages right now. - CC
Guest SaddleRider Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 On 7/18/2017 at 9:37 AM, hddennis said: ................... fault of the last owner's inability to properly adjust or adequately repair the mechanical brakes. If all 1931 Fords were this scary there would be none left today. Are they as good as hydraulics? No but they are not worthless either or Ford wouldn't have been able to sell them for nearly a decade later....Howard Dennis Good post, Mr. Dennis - you have pointed out the obvious - so many people who THINK they like old cars, have no clue or even interest in how to maintain them. I do understand where this guy is coming from ( the guy who started this particular "thread".) Given the "nostalgia craze", people THINK they'd like an early car to drive around in. The tremendous technological advances since the 2nd World War have so altered what we expect from cars these days! Pressurized cooling systems, short-stroke motors with sophisticated controls on fuel and electrical systems, vastly improved lighting, tires - the list goes on. Nothing unusual about liking the "look" of pre-war cars. But with little or no interest and/or understanding in how different the driving experience is today, it shouldn't surprise anyone that there is so much "custom" and./or "hot-rodding" going on.
Paul Dobbin Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 Wingski, I know your said Model A, but take a look at this 32 Ford Tudor, which I bet would do anything you want in style and reliability.
mcdarrunt Posted July 21, 2017 Posted July 21, 2017 Once you decide exactly what you want members here can probably give you a price range which may or may not be a concern. Here are some samples of what is in the shop now or has been recently: (1st) !930 all factory with generic interior and single stage paint----20,000 (2nd) 1931 with LeBaron Bonney interior, base coat/clear coat, a Piranio fully counter weighted crank engine, aluminum pistons etc., very good updated mechanical brakes---30,000 (3rd) 1930 with same as above but with all leather, dual side mounts, and is a roadster---40,000 (4th) 1930 Street Rod: Filled top, Deuce grill, a/c, power r&p, a/t, power discs, PA chassis, and on and on---50,000 (5th) 1931 Show car: All of the street rod stuff above plus suicide doors with weather stripping, Ostrich interior, power everything, IRS with inboard discs, everything plated or polished stainless, custom tube frame with every weld ground smooth and finished to like glass, the list is endless---90,000 P.S. YOU CAN ALWAYS BUY ONE CHEAPER THAN HAVE IT DONE.
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