Corn Head Grease Anyone Used it in a Transmission

[Mark Gregory]

I went to the Reo meet in Ohio and a Reo member mentioned he was thinking of using it in his transmission . He said he had lots of farm equipment and he has used it . Has anyone tried it before in a 1930's manual car transmission ? It is supposed to stop leaks .

 

Edited August 6, 2016 by Mark Gregory (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

Gearboxes of the '30s were designed for SAE 90 to 140 oil, mostly. Grease does not fit in that sequence.

 

You will have high losses and I would expect the gearbox to run hot.

 

Why not do it properly and fix the leaks rather than take a risk with an inappropriate product? At stake is a gearbox that might be hard to replace.

[Paul Dobbin]

I've heard it recommended for use ion the steering boxes.  On the 2015 Sentimental Tour i bought two tubes at a John Deere dealer in New Hampshire.  I have it in my steering boxes now and no drips (that's why I bought it.)  I must point out that the Early Ford V8;s exhaust manifold is within 1/2 inch of the steering box which gets real hot.   I have not tried it in transmissions yet because of no need, but I won't be afraid to try it if i ever need to.

Edited April 24 by Paul Dobbin
added the location of the heat problem (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

I could see it in a steering box.  You could about pack it full of wheel bearing grease and not have a problem as nothing turns at high speed for more than a few rotations where a transmission turns at high speed for hours on end.  I could see lots of problems unless it is specifically designed to not break down at high speed or temperature. 

The 2 are totally different applications. 

[John348]

I would let somebody else experiment with it first

[edinmass]

I would not run it in a steering box. I have seen a video on it, it won't provide proper lubrication for the box, and it will wear it out much quicker. Do not use it in the transmission, it is not the proper application and you will suffer shaft/bearing failure. Let it leak, keep it full. ALL old cars leak, nature of the beast. Ed

Edited August 6, 2016 by edinmass (see edit history)

[jpage]

If grease is used in a steering box the worm gear will auger the grease to either end of the box allowing the center to go dry and wear. Should always use heavy oil like 600 wt. or 140 wt.

[Spinneyhill]

Steering box lube is a semi fluid grease, which "corn head grease" is. The whole point of a semi fluid grease is that it flows back after displacement. There is an ASTM test for it. If you warm the bottle it will pour out, albeit slowly.

 

Presumably by "600 wt" you mean 600 by some unstated measurement of viscosity. Viscosity equivalents measured by The Saybolt Furol Sec. at 100 Deg. F. = 38 deg. C.  (superseded in January 1938 and optional until July 1939) of range min 300, max 600 gave S.A.E. viscosity number 160. SAE 250 is min. 600 Saybolt Furol, with no maximum.

 

"140 wt" might refer to S.A.E. viscosity number?

[Paul Dobbin]

On the early Ford V8's the steering box is very close to the left exhaust manifold. The heat breaks down the gear lube, whether oil or grease, into a thin liquid, then it leaks.  So far, the Corn Head grease is not dripping like the liquid 600 gear lube.  Even STP melts to a fine liquid with heat,  The Corn Head Grease seems to do better even in it's new liquid form.  I don't see any risk of dry sector damage. (Yet)

[Spinneyhill]

Many American cars in right hand control format have that problem too. My steering box lube is not leaking out yet after 15 years.

[jpage]

I was speaking of regular long fiber grease used to grease bearings. Many of the older cars had grease fittings on the steering boxes which lead some people to lube them with regular grease that would later cause an issue. When I mentioned 600 wt. oil, I was referring to the heavy gear lube used in early Fords and other makes which is labeled 600 wt.and still sold by Ford parts dealers as 600 wt. oil . Granted, 600 wt.is not a standard any more and the modern 140 wt. SAE gear lube is very close to the viscosity of the early 600 wt. No need to overthink this stuff.

[edinmass]

Corn head grease will not properly Lube the steering box. The shop I work with manufactures worms and bearings as well as making upgraded parts. A box is very high pressure on the wearing surfaces, grease and corn head grease will not flow and provide lubrication. In our  1920's and 1930's rebuilt boxes we run ATF, yup ATF as we machine all new seals for the box. Works great, and we don't have any leaks. Ed

Edited August 7, 2016 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Guest newbymachineworks]

14 hours ago, edinmass said:

Corn head grease will not properly Lube the steering box. The shop I work with manufactures worms and bearings as well as making upgraded parts. A box is very high pressure on the wearing surfaces, grease and corn head grease will not flow and provide lubrication. In our  1920's and 1930's rebuilt boxes we run ATF, yup ATF as we machine all new seals for the box. Works great, and we don't have any leaks. Ed

Corn head gearboxes operate under incredible pressure and shock loads, and at a high rate of speed.

[SDLARS]

Could it be possible that these old cars (I have a 30 & a 52 with 3 speed manual transmissions) may rotate too slowly for corn head grease to liquefy and get everything lubricated properly? I'm thinking of the input and tail shaft brgs.

[Bloo]

That's going to be really difficult to shift.

[Akstraw]

I am using it in the transmission of my 1914 Maxwell, and it seems to work well.  Having seen the promotional films for it, I would not use it in a steering box, though.

[Terry Wiegand]

When I went through the engine and drive line in my 1916 D-45 Buick I used John Deere Corn Head Grease on the transmission U-Joint.  It has worked just great for that application.  For the transmission I used the 600W gear oil that I got from Restoration Supply and that has worked well also.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

AACA Life Member #947918

[Mark Shaw]

NO, I have only used it in steering gears.  It effectively stops leaks while still lubricating the gears.

[Mark Gregush]

I would think that trying to use it in the transmission, it might have a hard time reaching places like the cluster gear bushing or bearings. Don't know but just a guess. 

[edinmass]

3 minutes ago, Mark Gregush said:

I would think that trying to use it in the transmission, it might have a hard time reaching places like the cluster gear bushing or bearings. Don't know but just a guess. 

 

I agree.......it's begging for a failure in a transmission. 

[AHa]

I did a little shade tree mechanic experiment. Put some in a cup and turned the cup upside down. Funny, it did not run at all, not one bit. The oil ran down the cup and out on the table. What's more important, minimizing oil leaks, or lubricating parts. My cars are too expensive to experiment on.

[Akstraw]

I think the magic of corn head grease is not how it behaves in a cup, but rather how it behaves in a gearbox.  It turns into a heavy weight oil when agitated by moving gears, as in a transmission, and hardens like grease when stationary.   No problem if you don’t use it in your cars; it’s easy enough (and safe) to stick with steam cylinder oil like the original manuals recommend.  I think the real risk is using it in a steering box where there is not sufficient agitation to soften it into oil. 

 

 

[edinmass]

Correct! The box has no where near the required movement that allows the lubrication to effectively work.

[West Peterson]

10 hours ago, edinmass said:

Correct! The box has no where near the required movement that allows the lubrication to effectively work.

Apparently you've never been in the right seat when I'm behind the wheel.

[AHa]

In my experiment, I did stir the corn head grease rapidly before turning the cup upside down. It was not a scientific experiment by any means but I couldn't get it to perform as advertised.

 

Years ago now I put some flowable grease in my 1940 truck transmission. Then I had to tear it down to rebuild it. The flowable grease never made it into the needle bearings. It actually never did flow. You have to remember, any kind of lubrication will work for a while. I'm sure Corn head grease works great in combine gear boxes, that's what it was designed for.

[Jack Bennett]

I have heard that corn head oil works good in bevel gear transmissions. 
I also recall the same person telling me to dump a quart of automatic transmission fluid in my cars crankcase to stop valve noise.

I have, and will always use 600W aka semi-grease lubricant,or steam oil in my transmissions.

For years I have used CV joint lubricant in my steering gear boxes, and have yet had one to leak or fail.

Jack

 

[ramair]

I use corn head grease in some of my farm machines, I have yet to see it used in a John Deere gear box of any type.  We use it in chain drive boxes with double row series 80 chain.  For those not familiar the double row chain is driven by 2 sprockets close together it looks similar to a timing chain just simpler with way less parts to the chain.  These drives can be used to speed up or slow down shaft speeds, also to remote power to different height levels on a big machine.  I have  one on a machine called a Pickett one step bean cutter / wind rower that transmits a lot of power and it gets really hot and the grease liquifies . I think it’s a great product, but in my opinion in a car you would have to pipe in heat somehow to get it to work either in steering gear or transmission.  I remember reading about how people would forget to change the oil in their transmission and rear axels in areas that have sustained temperature below 0 and I believe Packard explained to its customers that they where causing a great deal of damage the first couple of miles until it could flow and lubricate

[Dandy Dave]

21 hours ago, West Peterson said:

Apparently you've never been in the right seat when I'm behind the wheel.

Is it a right hand drive car? 😁

[AHa]

9 hours ago, ramair said:

 I have  one on a machine called a Pickett one step bean cutter / wind rower that transmits a lot of power and it gets really hot and the grease liquifies .

My suspicion is the grease was developed for high rpm gear boxes where the grease gets really hot and therefore leaks out of the box. These gear boxes 'sing' while in operation.

 

The problem, as I see it, is everybody is always trying to improve things and most marketing is an effort to improve. Think of all the aftermarket parts and devices developed in an effort to improve the model T Ford, or STP. All neat tricks, but did any of them actually improve anything? I hear all the time how the oils today are so much superior to what they had at the time but it is easy to forget the components were developed to run on the oils of the time. The fact that the cars have lasted this long should tell you something.

 

The other problem is our society as a whole has decided it must save the planet. "One drop of oil is enough to pollute the water on the whole earth," is a quote I often hear, never mind the fact that it is a natural product that seeps out of the ground in places and plants are still producing it today. I don't advocate pouring used motor oil on the ground but how about a little moderation. Maybe use some gasket sealer.

 

I put flowable grease in my 1940 truck transmission because it was said to be superior to the 90 weight recommended by the manufacturer. Turns out the manufacturer knew what he was talking about. Don't make the same mistake I did.

 

 

[Jack Bennett]

While I am not familiar with the term “flowable grease”, that in itself is not surprising.

But what is surprising is the number of types of grease manufactured, the multitude of uses grease is prescribed for, and the singular word “grease” is used to describe it all.

My books prescribe “steam oil” and “semi-liquid grease” for general use in my antique cars, which vary in age from 1923 to 1929.

But, I have had conversations with t some highly placed individuals in the lubricant business, as well as talking to the folks at places like Meyers Old Dodge and Snyder’s regarding the purchase of “steam oil” or “semi-liquid grease” and the reply has been unanimous……..”Stick with 600W or 1500W and you can’t go wrong regardless of the age of your collectible cars.

Of course only a idiot would think it’s OK to put 600W or 1500W in the transmission of my 1951 Plymouth, but, any idiot who thinks it is OK deserves to have their transmission destroyed.

I personally think that the cost of a quart of 600W or 1500W has a lot to do with the tendency of “frugal” antique auto collectors to stray into untested territory regarding the type of lubricants to use in their antique gear boxes.

I have heard that mixing some number of tubes of grease, mixed with some amount of 90/140 gear oil will stop the leaks from a 1923 Dodge transmission or differential.

I also understand that hominy grits and a diet of ground cork will stop leaks from a perforated ulcer……….and I believe these solutions to a problem, one not so serious, and the other very serious, are both equally laughable.

When in doubt stick with a time proven product and hope you outlast your 100 year old car.

https://www.valvolineglobal.com/en-ksa/grease-101-different-grease-types-and-when-to-use-them/

Jack