Off Topic ... Maybe

[capngrog]

I know this question does not involve collector vehicles; however, sooner or later, it will affect most of us who enjoy this forum.

 

Microsoft is presently offering free upgrades to its Windows 10 operating system, and they have stated that they will "soon" no longer be supporting Windows 7.  Has anyone upgraded to Windows 10, and, if so, what has your experience been ... Good, Bad or Ugly?

 

Just wonderin',

Grog

 

 

[Guest]

We have four computers in our household one of them is a windows 10. It's the only computer we DON"T use because of it's format. How's that for a indication?

[GARY F]

my sister who is computer savvy told me not to switch, which i didnt. my 2c

[95Cardinal]

I switched to Windows 10 from Windows 7 about 2 months ago.

I have had no problems, other than occasionally spending a few minutes learning where to find some Control Panel functions.

 

I do not use Microsoft Edge (the browser that has apparently "replaced" Internet Explorer); I like Firefox.

 

Gary F: why did your tech-savvy sister tell you not to switch?

[Standard Eight]

Windows 7 has stopped "Mainstream support" but continues with "Extended" support until January 2020, so you are safe to run Windows 7 for years (you just won't get any new features or tweaks).

 

We have 7 laptops/pcs and have upgraded all of them to Windows 10.  The upgrade process was quick, simple, and well thought out (you have 30 days to revert back to your original system if you decide you do not want Windows 10).    All 7 devices upgraded to Windows 10 with no issues.  You will want to make sure your current device has all windows updates applied and all software updates applied before upgrading to Windows 10, it will just make the upgrade much easier.

 

We have been running our devices on Windows 10 for 2-3 months and have seen no issues.  I find the Windows 10 user interface to be very clean and simple, much better than the Windows 8 GUI.  I also find my devices and programs actually run better under Windows 10.  And if you create and use a Microsoft Account as your login ID on each device your user settings (such as your IE favorites) will automatically stay synced amongst your devices.  This feature was available in Windows 8 but in Windows 10 this feature is much simpler to use.

 

I am not yet a fan of the new Windows 10 browser "Edge" but the familiar IE11 browser is still available and can be set as your default with one click.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Standard Eight]

I have had no problems, other than occasionally spending a few minutes learning where to find some Control Panel functions.

 

95Cardinal,  I find the Windows 10 search function/box works much like the iPad/iPhone Spotlight Search function.  I find it to be one of the better features to Windows 10.  Now instead of trying to navigate menus or screens to find programs, settings, etc. I simply start typing what I want to run, or what I want to change, in the search box and Windows 10 pops it to the top of the list 95% of the time.  Then if it is something I want to access frequently I just right click and pin the item to either the desktop, task bar, or home screen. - Bob

Edited January 5, 2016 by Butler Old Stone House (see edit history)

[vermontboy]

Those of us who have never used an app and still use a flip phone respectfully disagree. A friend upgraded to Windows 10 and i can't find anything on his computer. I am not a Luddite,  I started using a computer at work back in 1996 ( actually designed systems around the old 16 bit processors back in the 70's as well) and still use a computer with Windows 7 for my web business now that I am retired.. I was involved in a  lot of "playing in the sandbox" to ferret out system problems during development on a large integrated government system that took 3 years to complete. But I can't seem to get excited about Windows 10.

 

Maybe I will just get a Mac.

[Standard Eight]

Those of us who have never used an app 

 

Luckily with Windows 10, just like Windows 7, you never have to use apps but you can just use your desktop programs as before.

 

Macs with the El Capitan OS X are good machines also, just a different user interface and a different approach to programs and settings (although the Safari browser not supporting Adobe Flash can be a pain on some websites).

 

One thing for sure the rate of change within technology today is tremendous, and what we buy today is obsolete in a few months.

[padgett]

Lets just say I go back a bit further & now have Win 10 on four machines including the hotrodded (64 bit capable) netbook I like to travel with.

Generally use two dissimilar browsers, one locked down so tight it squeaks.

Do not care for Edge (save as is missing and I use directories extensively) but easy to revive IE 10 & my boot opens a screen that looks a lot like Win 7 (except the start button is square.

Do make a lot of backups including images & use removable drives (is nothing like an air gap) & if one is suspect of has a problem, can just mount as a slave in another. These days a terabyte is cheap but mostly use much smaller working drives.

Have a MAC with El but mostly to duplicate issues. Are nice enough but cannot do many of the things I want & have no use for anything small that cannot mount a microSD card.

Am finding that less is more & use small, dumb devices for a lot of things. Raspberry Pis are fun.

[Spinneyhill]

I went to Win 10 in early August. It was a disaster. The screen is set to turn off after 15 mins or something. I could not get it back once it was turned off.

 

I couldn't print and couldn't find the printer on the network to connect to.

 

The network card stopped responding to commands, tried to reset itself and hung the computer, frequently.

 

I use SMA's Sunny Explorer to monitor our PV installation. It stopped working.

 

I could not see the other computers on the network. I could only see them intermittently under Windows 7 too.

 

So I reverted to Win 7 after about 3 weeks. That was another disaster. The USB ports and the SD card reader now did not work and could not be made to work. I still couldn't see the PV installation. I managed to reconnect to the printer. At least it was stable. I couldn't see or be seen by other computers on the network. I paid a computer wizard to look at it; he went round the same traps I had been around and the advice was to reinstall Windows 7 and don't touch Win 10 until service pack one comes out.

 

So when it came to reinstalling Windows 7, how do it do a backup with no access to the USB ports and the external drive? I plugged the drive into another computer and used the IP address of the other computer in Windows Explorer to connect to the drive. The copy took about 36 hours (very slow across the network). After the reinstall, it all works - except I can't see the PV inverter. Copying the backup back took about 4 hours with the external drive plugged into this computer!

 

What I saw of Win 10 looked good. Many of the familiar Win 7 screens were hidden in there. I liked the short cuts to get to them. I did not like the loss of Freecell. We don't get part of Win 10 in our region (I'll remember what it is called later) and I chose to stay with Cyberfox and Thunderbird. The loss of Windows Media Centre was no loss; I use Irfanview and VLC for media playing.

 

I will look at Win 10 again in 3 or 4 months. Hopefully the stream of questions on various fora about problems will have slowed by then.

[nick8086]

They want the computer to run like an I phone.. apps.. My kids love it.. I will have to figure it out..

[joe_padavano]

I upgraded to Win 10 on my new convertible (laptop and tablet) Lenovo Yoga.  I think Win 10 is the best MS operating system since XP.  Granted, that's not saying much...

 

It is very intuitive and easy to customize.  It combines the touch-screen features of Win 8 with the traditional Windows start menu.  Admittedly, Microsoft has spent decades lowering our expectations, so when an operating system is released that is exceedingly adequate, we consider it to be outstanding by Microsoft standards.  In any case, it is far better than 8, at least as good as 7, and light years ahead of Vista (again, not saying much).

 

I'll add that since my computer converts to a tablet, I need the touch-screen features in Win 10.  If your computer does not have a touch screen, there is less of a reason to upgrade.

 

The only problem I had with my upgrade was that I did it only a week or so after the formal release of Win 10.  Lenovo had not yet released all the Win 10 drivers for my computer so for a couple of weeks some of the features of my computer did not work.  Lenovo finally caught up and all has been good for a few months now.

 

I highly recommend it.

Edited January 1, 2016 by joe_padavano (see edit history)

[Standard Eight]

Do make a lot of backups including images & use removable drives (is nothing like an air gap) & if one is suspect of has a problem, can just mount as a slave in another. These days a terabyte is cheap but mostly use much smaller working drives.

Have a MAC with El but mostly to duplicate issues. Are nice enough but cannot do many of the things I want & have no use for anything small that cannot mount a microSD card.

Am finding that less is more & use small, dumb devices for a lot of things. Raspberry Pis are fun.

 

+1 on making a lot of backups!  And you are so right that today even terabytes of data storage is cheap.  And now that cloud storage has matured I keep all of my files both backed up and synced (the two are different) using several cloud services and also local external drives.

 

I still find it amazing just how much cloud space one can get using the free plans with many of the cloud providers.  Windows 10 is tightly integrated with Microsoft's OneDrive cloud storage and if you setup a free Microsoft Account for your Windows 10 device you get 5gb of free cloud storage (similar to the free 5gb you get with an Apple/Mac iCloud account).

 

I have a Mac for similar reasons.  I maintain several websites for different clubs/organizations to which I belong and when I make changes to one of the websites I check the changes on a Windows machine under IE11, Firefox, and Chrome and then check the changes on a Mac using Safari and Opera.

[broker-len]

I do business on the Web      Real Estate    had 7     needed to get new computer    all I could get was HP   Windows 9      took me 6 months to start learning it                   was offered an upgrade           NO WAY    

[caddyshack]

My experience updating from one windows to another over the years was so ugly that I switched to Apple. Could not be happier, and the support is the best. Just my 2c worth.

[Guest Bob Call]

I am a contract worker and travel with 2 laptops; one for the office where I am working and one for the hotel room.

 

The Fujitsu Lifebook is about 3 years old and was running W 7.  Around Thanksgiving I thought that MS may have all of the big glitches ironed out, so, I upgraded to W 10.

 

I have 3 printers that I use, an Epson Stylus Photo R280, Epson Workforce 435 and HP 470 bw. The R280 will NOT work with W 10. I upgraded to the latest driver at Epson.com/support. No matter what I try W 10 will NOT recognize the R280. Works fine with the WF 435 and HP 470.

 

I also have some older printers that I have stopped using even though they worked fine with XP on my old desktop, but, I'll bet that W 10 will not recognize them because of their age.  I also have a flatbed scanner (legal size) that MS no longer supports on any of its OS's. To get the scanner to work with the newer versions of Windows I will have to buy an app that costs more than a new scanner.

 

A search on the internet reveals lots of people that have older printers like my R280 that W 10 will not recognize. So, I have a perfectly good photo quality printer that is now useless to me since it is at my home and it too big to carry on trips; that is why I have the portable HP 470. My WF 435 at home has a document feeder that is great for copying and scanning but doesn't have photo quality output like the R280.

 

I have left my Toshiba Satellite C55 running W8.1. I have W 7 Pro on CD so I may reinstall it on the Fujitsu Lifebook.

 

So, if you have an older printer don't be surprised if it will not work with W 10 and be prepared to buy an new printer. But, printers are cheap, it's the ink and toner cartridges that are expensive. In that area I buy refilled carts from LD Products in LA. Good prices, good quality and fast shipping.

 

Don't you love MS? I'm an old fuddy that stuck with DR DOS to the bitter end.

[60FlatTop]

So they don't support it. I can't recall needing their support. Once Bill Gates taught us to turn it off and restart anything that didn't work things have been pretty good.

 

Anyone been to the doctor, dentist, or optician lately? No kidding, they are running DOS and windows 95. I had to laugh a while back. I got an eye exam and the Dr. told me all about his new Corvette. I cashed out at the receptionist and caught a glimpse of the monitor screen. "? Is that a Windows 95 program?" I asked. She just grimaced and rolled her eyes. Cardiologist is the same; and I remember seeing a pink 3.0 screen somewhere in a medical application. That's the office and billing. They have some good stuff in the treatment rooms.

 

I'm on W7 right now and using 2.6 GIG of memory. That would run at least 5 XP machines. I've been using them as part of my everyday work since 1974. Don't listen to this guy:

 

Bernie

Edited January 1, 2016 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[padgett]

Well, I've been using an HP1315 to scan/print for a decade. Will see your Digital Research DOS and raise you PC-DOS 1.0 (no delete). Though my Columbias still run DR-DOS 6.0

Think you meant Win 8 or 8.1 and not 9.

Early Win 10 had real problems particularly with Clover Trail tablets but the latest upgrade is pretty good. Were a few cases (mostly thermal management and video) where I had to backdate the drivers but really have had no problems.

Do think the time for dominance of small devices was missed in 2012 when RT flopped & Android/iOS are too entrenched now.

Agree, Apple makes great computers for people who really don't like computers (nothing wrong with that: some like to just drive, others like to swap engines and rear ends). Since I like Facel-Vegas and Studillacs (never had either but like the idea) I like diving into the bits and bytes, these days I can combine both.

Cloud is OK for many and concept of synching between devices is handy but there are some things I just trust only under my control.

TANSTAAFL

Edited January 1, 2016 by padgett (see edit history)

[JACK M]

Since you guys are all talking over my head I will keep it simple.

I upgraded to Windows 10. Hated it. Glad that my Brother in law was able to change me back during a Christmas visit.

[28 Chrysler]

Some programs like Quick Books need to be upgraded with  windows 10, some of my photo programs  will not work with ten.

[capngrog]

Well, it looks like the votes are in.  Four respondents like Win10, two are suspicious of it and ten dislike Win10. 

 

The ones who like it are 95 Cardinal, Butler Old Stone House, Padgett and joe_padavano.   Although 95 Cardinal likes the operating system overall, he/she doesn't use the Win10 browser "Edge".  Butler Old Stone House, who maintains several websites (which, in my opinion makes him/her extremely "tech-savvy"), likes the Win10 capability of synchronizing various devices, but doesn't like the Win10 browser "Edge".   Padgett, who also appears to be "tech-savvy" likes Win10 over all, but doesn't like the browser "Edge".  joe_padavano says:  "I highly recommend it (Win10)"; however, his comment: "In any case, it (Win10) is far better than 8, at least as good as 7 and light years ahead of Vista (again, not saying much)", seems to render his recommendation less than overwhelmingly enthusiastic in nature.

 

The respondents who are suspicious of Win10 are 60FlatTop and capngrog.  Well, I can't say for sure about 60FlatTop, but he/she seems to be at least somewhat suspicious of Win10.

 

The folks who seem to be somewhat sure in their dislike of Win10 are: helfen, GARY F, vermontboy, Spinneyhill, nick 8086, broker-len, caddyshack, Bob Call, Jack M and 28 Chrysler.

 

I'll have to admit right now that everyone who responded to this thread is very likely much more "tech-savvy" than I am, hence my suspicions about Win10.  Since Butler Old Stone House mentioned that MS will continue "Extended Support" of Win7 until January of 2020, I'll just hang on to my Win7 for a bit longer.

 

Ain't upgradin' to W10 this year,

Grog

[Standard Eight]

Nice summary Grog

One thing to note that while Win 7 will still run fine for years Microsoft is only offering the "free" upgrade to Win 10 for one year and we are already 1/2 way through the free upgrade period ( free upgrades end July 29,2016)

[joe_padavano]

  joe_padavano says:  "I highly recommend it (Win10)"; however, his comment: "In any case, it (Win10) is far better than 8, at least as good as 7 and light years ahead of Vista (again, not saying much)", seems to render his recommendation less than overwhelmingly enthusiastic in nature.

 

Actually, that's just my sense of humor and a dig at MicroSoft for previous crappy software.  I actually recommend it highly.  It is significantly more stable than prior MS operating systems and it's very easy to customize it the way you want.  Everything you previously did in Win7 you can do in Win10. If you have a touch screen computer, it is even better.  And yes, I'm tech-savvy (aerospace engineer).

 

I'll also point out that the vast majority of members here are skeptical of 12V electrical systems, alternators, fuel injection, disk brakes, radial tires, and anything that doesn't have a hand crank, so you may be basing your assessment on an invalid sample. 

[capngrog]

I hate to pass up a "freebie"; however, when said "freebie" is offered by a major corporation not known for its altruism, it makes me nervous.  As padgett pointed out, "TANSTAAFL", which I believe translates to: "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch".  With that said, look at this latest statement from Microsoft regarding Windows 7.

 

The link:  http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/01/02/microsoft-windows-7-problems/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix

 

Stickin' with Win7 for now,

Grog

 

P.S.  joe_padavano,

        I did not in any way mean to imply that you aren't tech-savvy.  I just pointed out a couple of respondents who seem (to me) to be in the IT business.  As I previously

        stated, I do not consider myself to be tech-savvy, and assume that, most if not all, of the folks who have participated in this thread are way beyond me when it

        comes to this computer stuff.

 

 

[padgett]

Well I resemble that remark. Must admit that the computer I am running right now is Win7 but when I upgrade will probably go to a new drive and keep this one as an archive (have licenses to support this) - nice thing about removable drives and spare carriers).

Not that I like 7 better than 10, both have advantages though not many touch scream drivers for 7, those became common with 8. 10 has great promise for mobile but then so did RT, 8, and 8.1. It also needs HTML 5 and use of screen detection routines for effective web pages on small screams.

Point you missed though is Apple. If a MAC/iPad/iPhone does what you want then they have very sophisticated systems and excellent help (for $99/year if you live near an Apple store). OTOH if you need expandabiity fagedaboudit. I have over 20GB of Music and 10GB of service manuals & do not always have connectivity when travelling so does not work for me. Also my engine diagnostics programs are either Windows or Android & my two-channel O'scope is Windoze only.

But if you do not need that sort of thing then fruit may be in your future.

[smithbrother]

Our son set us up, he does soft wear for a couple hundred systems, says for me and the bride, STAY WITH 7 for now. 

 

Not saying 10 isn't in our future, but still leaning, and don't need more grief NOW.  

 

Love our 7 system, and son keeps us going, he has us REMOTE from his office, and home, so logs on and fixes, or explains when needed.  We couldn't be HAPPIER.  

 

FUNNY, a friend said, "I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD WANT MY DAD HOOKED REMOTE TO MY SYSTEM".  I said, WHAT ARE YOU DOING THAT YOU ARE ASHAMED OF?  he didn't answer, hehe.

 

Dale in Indy

[Paul Dobbin]

From the "stone age", I still run a desktop with Windows XP and a laptop with Windows 7.  Tried 8 and returned it an bought the leftover 7.  Reason:  I'm a flip phone user and own my own programs, (Word 2002, Publisher, etc) now you have to subscribe to them with an annual payment to Mr. Gates company.  Thanks for the thread, I too will wait or go to MAC next time.

[D Yaros]

We have 4 computers here.  The newest came with 10.  That said, it does NOT come with Office.  Word, Excel, etc. are only provided in trial form.  Then, to get it working versions one must by a yearly subscription.  What is that?

 

Stick with Windows 7! 

[Steve Moskowitz]

We have a lot of users on Windows 10 operating system. 10 in-house and about 20 plus more that use our license. We were forced into it and in the beginning and it was painful, especially for me but now after working with it for quite sometime everyone including me is comfortable. You know what that means now don't you? We will have to change again! Not sure how much more I can stand as XP was the start of my changes and then went to 7 and now 10. Have windows 8 at home and talk about something I hate!!

[Standard Eight]

 to get it working versions one must by a yearly subscription

 

It is still possible to purchase a standalone (non-subscription) version of MS Office, but the only place you can buy a standalone version is either through the MS Online Store or at a Microsoft Retail Store.

 

While the subscription version of MS Office (the most practical version for home use would be Office 365 Home) is a new model/way of buying MS Office it does provide some benefits not available when buying a standalone version, such as:

1. You can install MS Office on up to 5 PCs/Macs and up to 5 tablets/phones (if you have more than one device on which you would like to use Office this alone will make the overall cost cheaper)
2. You get one (1) terabyte of cloud MS data storage with your subscription (that is no small amount of data even in today's computer environment)
3. You can share your MS Office/Office 365 subscription with up to four additional people
   1. For example you could have a separate account for your spouse/child
   2. And you and each of the four users each get a separate 1 terabyte of data storage for a total of 5 terabytes of data storage ( a great place to keep a 2nd backup of all your photos)
4. You get all updates to MS Office for free as part of the subscription
5. You have access to online web versions of all the MS Office programs (this means you can run all the office programs from any computer right from within your web browser with no software install required)

If you only need Office on one device Microsoft just released a "lower" cost version of the subscription version (called Office 365 Personal)

[Steve Moskowitz]

Bob, thanks for your expertise.  Guess it is another reason we are honoring you in Philadelphia...congratulations by the way. 

[Standard Eight]

Thanks very much Steve

[Guest Bob Call]

Why put up with crap like MS Office 365? Use Apache Open Office. It's free, works just like MS Office and you can save files in Word, Excel, etc. formats.

[Annie G]

I upgraded my HP laptop to W 10 and although I like working on my laptop, I can't see any other computers and can't print!  It always asks me for a user name and password to look at any other computer in our house - which is something we NEVER set up   I'm very frustrated

[Standard Eight]

AnnieSS I sent you PM

[padgett]

My copies of Office are the original licensed ones however Open Office is free and provides much the same functionality. 

[joe_padavano]

Sorry, but many of the responses here are incorrect. First, NO version of windows ever included Office. Those were ALWAYS separate products. You may have purchased a computer with that software pre-loaded, but they were not part of Windows.

Second, you can absolutely purchase Office 2013 or 2016 from sources other than directly from Microsoft. I just did that for my new laptop. Just because MS is pushing the Office 365 rental model doesn't mean it's your only choice. Spend a couple of minutes actually researching your options before posting incorrect info.

[Annie G]

Wow. That was a rather rude reply :-(

[John_S_in_Penna]

Continuing advancement of a product is one thing--

change for the sake of change is another.

Some programs, such as ones I use professionally,

used to issue updates every 2 or 3 years;  now it's annually,

and their fee structure coerces the user to buy updates more often.

 

Why do software companies feel the need to change the arrangement

of the commands/menus so frequently?

 

If Microsoft made pianos, they would rearrange a few keys 

every year so people would buy new pianos and have to

relearn what they had already learned.

[joe_padavano]

Continuing advancement of a product is one thing--

change for the sake of change is another.

Some programs, such as ones I use professionally,

used to issue updates every 2 or 3 years;  now it's annually,

and their fee structure coerces the user to buy updates more often.

 

Why do software companies feel the need to change the arrangement

of the commands/menus so frequently?

 

If Microsoft made pianos, they would rearrange a few keys 

every year so people would buy new pianos and have to

relearn what they had already learned.

 

Not that I'm a Microsoft proponent, but how is this any different than annual styling changes by automakers?