Peculiar Cadillac Option

[Hudsy Wudsy]

I just came across a '48 Fleetwood for sale on Craigslist/Fargo that has a factory option (according to the seller) that I've never seen before. Honestly, for my part, I think that it strains credibility, but I'm sure that if it's legit, one or more of you will know about it. Check out the dual gas and brake pedals:

 

http://fargo.craigslist.org/cto/5157076814.html

 

[John348]

Pretty wild almost seems like it might have been for a person with special driving needs?

[JWLawrence]

The additional accelerator pedal may be used to operate the dimmer switch. I have no idea about the pedal to the left of the brake. It looks to be where a clutch pedal would be located.

 

(o{}o)

[JACK M]

If it is an additional brake pedal the linkage must me a nightmare.

I suspect a manual transmission and the dimmer switch make sense.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

No, the owner states, "This has dual foot controls, 2 gas pedals and 2 brake pedals. Rare option." He also says that it has an automatic, which would obviously be a Hydramatic. I'm open to the likelihood that it was retrofitted by a company that we would now days refer to as specializing in "accessibility  controls", but because the pedals exactly match the original Cadillac ones and the fact the seller states clearly that it was an option, I though that some Cadillac specialist might speak to it. I guess that I could have posted this thread on the Cadillac forum, but I thought that others might find it sort of interesting.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

I just remembered that a fire at the GM plant that made Hydramatics caused some Cadillacs to be sold with Dynaflow transmissions, but I'm sure that happened two or three years down the road from '48. I would not change the pedal situation, anyway.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

[Mark Huston]

This set up reminds of the way high school drivers ed cars used to be set up.  Could this be an aftermarket drivers ed car conversion? 

[Matt Harwood]

This set up reminds of the way high school drivers ed cars used to be set up.  Could this be an aftermarket drivers ed car conversion? 

 

That was my first thought, too, but for one, all the pedals are clustered around the steering column and two, why would you train a new driver with reversed pedals?

 

I'm sure that if someone halfway knowledgeable could get a look at the car, the function of the second set of pedals would be immediately obvious. Are the brake pedals linked? What is the second accelerator tied to? It's possible that it's the high-beam switch but why two brake pedals? Could one be a clutch? Cadillac probably would have built a manual transmission car in 1948 if a buyer requested it, so is it possible that perhaps this was a manual transmission car that has subsequently been retrofitted with a Hydra-Matic? Or perhaps the manual transmission is still there and the seller is mistaking a column shifter for an automatic? He doesn't seem all that sharp about his car, as the first line says "engine is stuck" but later says "engine is free."

 

This is vexing me in a big way. I NEED to know what's going on.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[ScarredKnightfan]

That is weird ... can't say I've seen it, either.

 

 

Cort www.oldcarsstronghearts.com

1979 & 1989 Caprice Classics | pigValve, paceMaker, cowValve

"You know J.R. is making deals" __ Hank Williams Jr __ 'This Ain't Dallas'

[Hudsy Wudsy]

I'm afraid that you guys aren't reading the actual Craigslist ad. Click on the link that I provided. The seller states, "This has dual foot controls, 2 gas pedals and 2 brake pedals. Rare option." I'm sure that the linkage is, in fact, quite complex, but I think that we have to assume that the seller knows what they operate. It's pure speculation on my part, but I suppose that some possible scenario might include an injured war vet. If he had enough money to but a Fleetwood, I suppose that he could also have had enough money to pay for a sophisticated conversion like this. What I'm most curious about the question of it being an option that someone might have ordered from the factory. I wouldn't assume that was the case, but those additional pedals are identical to the factory ones. Sooner or later some knowledgeable Cadillac guy will enlighten us, I hope.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

[Guest LuxDriver]

I don't think I want to see who it was made for with that many limbs.. Odd is right..say no more. Curious for sure.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

This set up reminds of the way high school drivers ed cars used to be set up.  Could this be an aftermarket drivers ed car conversion? 

 

 

  Bingo!! Never saw a Cadillac used for training, but I "ain't seen everything"  .

 

  Ben

[keiser31]

Not a driver's ed car unless it was for Siamese twins joined at the hip. Driver's ed cars had separate sets of pedals, but on opposite sides of the front compartment....not on either side of the steering column.

Edited August 21, 2015 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[CarlLaFong]

I'll bet a paycheck that it is a handicapped conversion for a WWII vet. The stock pedal setup remains for other drivers, like the guy's wife, so they didn't have to get used to the reversed setup. I doubt that the brake linkage is all that complicated. I'm sure the two pedals are just connected together on a common shaft or tube

[bubba]

I used to have a 1941 Oldsmobile.  Olds had the hydromatic as well as Cadillac.  There was a service manual put out by GM to order parts to retrofit cars for the vets who had lost limbs in the war.  This included hand controls.  It appears that this car was either ordered with this or dealer installed for use with a left leg.

[keiser31]

I'll bet a paycheck that it is a handicapped conversion for a WWII vet. The stock pedal setup remains for other drivers, like the guy's wife, so they didn't have to get used to the reversed setup. I doubt that the brake linkage is all that complicated. I'm sure the two pedals are just connected together on a common shaft or tube

My thought exactly.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

I'm appalled by the image of a student sitting on the lap of a Drivers Ed teacher. No, guys, I think that we have to search elsewhere for an explanation! I'm sure that for someone who has lost the use of their right foot or leg, driving with the regular gas and brake pedal arrangement is doable, but maybe very tiring for long hauls. Further, I might think that if someone had to use their left foot on the gas and then quickly transfer that foot to the brake pedal there could be some tendency that their foot might catch briefly under the brake pedal. Of course that's where skilled craftsman come in. They can modify auto controls to accommodate the nature of someone's disability. Still, I'm intrigued by the possibility that this arrangement might have been ordered from the factory.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

[Hudsy Wudsy]

I used to have a 1941 Oldsmobile.  Olds had the hydromatic as well as Cadillac.  There was a service manual put out by GM to order parts to retrofit cars for the vets who had lost limbs in the war.  This included hand controls.  It appears that this car was either ordered with this or dealer installed for use with a left leg.

Thank you! That was the info that I was looking for!

[keiser31]

I used to have a 1941 Oldsmobile.  Olds had the hydromatic as well as Cadillac.  There was a service manual put out by GM to order parts to retrofit cars for the vets who had lost limbs in the war.  This included hand controls.  It appears that this car was either ordered with this or dealer installed for use with a left leg.

I can see this maybe in 1946 and newer, but 1941? That was just the beginning of our involvement in the war.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

Back to the car itself, I've always admired '48 Cadillacs in general, and Fleetwoods all the more. I think that there is something a little iconic about the car having the old world flathead powering the "new" tail-finned body. The seller says it's rust free. If a person could free up the engine, they might be into a neat, desirable car for a mere $2,500. Here's a link to a few on Google:

https://www.google.com/search?q=1948+cadillac+fleetwood&biw=1220&bih=648&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CCgQ7AlqFQoTCLvR7_v8uscCFYMNkgod1J4MtA

[capngrog]

I think it is as Hudsy Wudsy touched upon in his Post #17.  This car was set up to be used both by an able-bodied driver and a driver that had lost his right leg.  I don't think that the linkage required for this dual accelerator/brake setup would have been all that complex.

 

Just my opinion,

Grog

[Larry W]

I used to have a 1941 Oldsmobile.  Olds had the hydromatic as well as Cadillac.  There was a service manual put out by GM to order parts to retrofit cars for the vets who had lost limbs in the war.  This included hand controls.  It appears that this car was either ordered with this or dealer installed for use with a left leg.

I believe these were refered to as "valiant" controls.

[Larry W]

Back to the car itself, I've always admired '48 Cadillacs in general, and Fleetwoods all the more. I think that there is something a little iconic about the car having the old world flathead powering the "new" tail-finned body. The seller says it's rust free. If a person could free up the engine, they might be into a neat, desirable car for a mere $2,500. Here's a link to a few on Google:https://www.google.com/search?q=1948+cadillac+fleetwood&biw=1220&bih=648&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CCgQ7AlqFQoTCLvR7_v8uscCFYMNkgod1J4MtA

I agree. If I were looking for another project, this would be it.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

"Valiant" has a nice euphemistic ring to it.

[auburnseeker]

There is a thread somewhere which I posted photos to about Valiant controls.  They were primarily used in Oldsmobiles and actually had a section in the parts catalog with photos for them giving options for different loss of limbs.  I imagine the cadillac and Olds with Hydramatic would be quite similar and a very easy conversion using the Olds kits.  I just found this thread or I would have posted sooner.  They may have even left the other controls in for the garage when they worked on the car so somebody wouldn't have trouble servicing it especially if they had it picked up and dropped off by a garage.  If you had the money for a new Caddy you probably didn't do much of the work on it yourself especially if you were missing any limbs. 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Not a driver's ed car unless it was for Siamese twins joined at the hip. Driver's ed cars had separate sets of pedals, but on opposite sides of the front compartment....not on either side of the steering column.

 

 John, you are right. I did not look close enough.

 

  Ben

[Guest]

Yes, as stated earlier, it's simply a Cadillac variant of the Oldsmobile "Valiant Controls". A cool period piece!

[bubba]

I can see this maybe in 1946 and newer, but 1941? That was just the beginning of our involvement in the war.

If you read my post again notice that I said "retrofit".  This was to make the cars already out there available to vets.   It was tough to get any new car after the war.

 

That's a 1942 Olds Greg just posted.

Edited August 21, 2015 by bubba (see edit history)

[X-Frame]

Thank you! That was the info that I was looking for!

 

 

I used to have a 1941 Oldsmobile.  Olds had the hydromatic as well as Cadillac.  There was a service manual put out by GM to order parts to retrofit cars for the vets who had lost limbs in the war.  This included hand controls.  It appears that this car was either ordered with this or dealer installed for use with a left leg.

 

This would make sense and considered an "original option" because it was installed when new.  Doesn't necessarily mean it came from the factory that way.  It does look odd but I am glad that they did considered our most honored citizens who's lives were changed forever.

[CarlLaFong]

I think it is as Hudsy Wudsy touched upon in his Post #17.  This car was set up to be used both by an able-bodied driver and a driver that had lost his right leg.  I don't think that the linkage required for this dual accelerator/brake setup would have been all that complex.

 

Just my opinion,

Grog

Hmmm, I believe Carl La Fong said the same thing in post #14. Perhaps my genius will be recognized after I'm gone

[keiser31]

If you read my post again notice that I said "retrofit".  This was to make the cars already out there available to vets.   It was tough to get any new car after the war.

 

That's a 1942 Olds Greg just posted.

Sorry....I did miss that.

[JV Puleo]

I agree with the notion that it was set up for a disabled driver but still workable for someone else. It might also be that the dealer that sold the car arranged for the dual controls... in which case it would be perfectly natural to assume it was a "factory" job. In order to have been able to buy a new Cadillac immediately after the war the original purchaser probably wasn't an ex-pfc. If the dealer asked the factory to accommodate a local war hero might they not have done so?

[Guest]

Hmmm, I believe Carl La Fong said the same thing in post #14. Perhaps my genius will be recognized after I'm gone

[Hudsy Wudsy]

Except for the fact that our love of vintage cars makes us all history buffs of sorts, there really is no reason whatsoever that my remarks here are relevant to anything at all automotive, but I'm going to share this with you anyway...Just now I was listening to my local news and learned that it was on this night exactly fifty years ago that I saw the Beatles at the old Met stadium in Bloomington (here in my lifelong state, Minnesota). Some of you old enough may remember the Met stadium where the Vikings, coached by Bud Grant, played host to reluctant visiting teams from much warmer climes. The Met stadium was torn down some time ago and is now the home of "The Mall Of America", a place that I have to assume is high on the list of any home grown or foreign terrorist. If it helps makes this at least a tinsy bit relevant, my friend's Mom drove us out to the concert in a yellow '60 Pontiac two door sedan.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

[capngrog]

Except for the fact that our love of vintage cars makes us all history buffs of sorts, there really is no reason whatsoever that my remarks here are relevant to anything at all automotive, but I'm going to share this with you anyway...Just now I was listening to my local news and learned that it was on this night exactly fifty years ago that I saw the Beatles at the old Met stadium in Bloomington (here in my lifelong state, Minnesota). Some of you old enough may remember the Met stadium where the Vikings, coached by Bud Grant, played host to reluctant visiting teams from much warmer climes. The Met stadium was torn down some time ago and is now the home of "The Mall Of America", a place that I have to assume is high on the list of any home grown or foreign terrorist. If it helps makes this at least a little more relevant, my friend's Mom drove us out to the concert in a yellow '60 Pontiac two door sedan.

 

That's not relevant to the Original Post, nor are a lot of the other posts in this thread.  Butt who cares, it's all interesting.

 

Cheers,

Grog

[John_S_in_Penna]

I can see this maybe in 1946 and newer, but 1941? That was just the beginning of our involvement in the war.

 

The clues are starting to come together!

Since Bubba's Olds (Posting #15) was a 1941 car--

before U. S. involvement in the war--that implies

that used cars were being retrofitted after the war

for veterans. 

 

That would mean the 1948 Cadillac could easily

have had an aftermarket conversion.

Edited August 22, 2015 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Hudsy Wudsy]

(sigh)

Edited August 22, 2015 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

[GK1918]

I just remembered that a fire at the GM plant that made Hydramatics caused some Cadillacs to be sold with Dynaflow transmissions, but I'm sure that happened two or three years down the road from '48. I would not change the pedal situation, anyway.

 

The fire was in 1953, because we had to replace the 53 engine  with another i don't remember the year, but it was all different cause it had

a dyna flow in it & the replacement had hydromatic. Something to do with the crank bolt pattern was different for the converters

[capngrog]

Hmmm, I believe Carl La Fong said the same thing in post #14. Perhaps my genius will be recognized after I'm gone

 

You are correct sir.  Oh, the tragedy of unrecognized/unacknowledged genius!!    Your genius is hereby recognized ... at least by me anyway.   

 

Cheers,

Grog

[JamesBulldogMiller55Buick]

That was my first thought, too, but for one, all the pedals are clustered around the steering column and two, why would you train a new driver with reversed pedals?

 

I'm sure that if someone halfway knowledgeable could get a look at the car, the function of the second set of pedals would be immediately obvious. Are the brake pedals linked? What is the second accelerator tied to? It's possible that it's the high-beam switch but why two brake pedals? Could one be a clutch? Cadillac probably would have built a manual transmission car in 1948 if a buyer requested it, so is it possible that perhaps this was a manual transmission car that has subsequently been retrofitted with a Hydra-Matic? Or perhaps the manual transmission is still there and the seller is mistaking a column shifter for an automatic? He doesn't seem all that sharp about his car, as the first line says "engine is stuck" but later says "engine is free."

 

This is vexing me in a big way. I NEED to know what's going on.

The flipper hasn't even taken it off the trailer that he put it on since he bought it. 

JC Whitney sold auxiliary accelerator pedals to relieve fatigue on long trips.

It's a manual transmission

Why would you put two b\rake pedals side by side?