January BCA Bugle Letters to the editor regarding show field parking at national meets

[JohnD1956]

The Driven class is a pat on the back. In my opinion, a well deserved one. And much more too! It's recoginition that not everyone can buy/restore/build a 400 point car but that doesn't matter. In this Club it's a chance for all who participate to take home a momento.

I like looking at gorgeous cars at the shows. I also love reviewing the cars that are works in progress and just solid useable Buicks that can be driven to a meet and still shown. The Driven award likely brings out Buicks that some would leave home if there was no such class. Thanks to the BOD and everyone who invested their time for initiating it!

[Guest my3buicks]

Isn't that what the dash plaque is? a memento. Great, the person that drives their car gets a plaque because he chose to bring his car out and enjoy the drive and the event, the person that busts his ass to get his car ready for the 400 point show, still drives his car to the show, and doesn't obtain anything goes home empty handed, hhmmm - Back in the good old days of the BCA this was not an issue.

Sorry I can't get all misty eyed and raise the flag for someone that has a vintage car that decides to drive it to a show, ah, that's what they are for.

If you love and enjoy your car, isn't that enough if you choose not to have it judged?

I go to lots of judged shows and write on the window card, do not judge - how many trophies, plaques, ribbons do you need?

Edited January 21, 2014 by my3buicks (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

Well, that's whats great about this country. I can get all misty eyed for those that decide to drive their vintage non 400 point car to a show. And I can enjoy a nice medal that says my car was able to make the trip to a Buick Club National Meet. And I can like Mike's idea too, everyone who drives their car to a National should get a medal. And I can think, everyone who brings their car to a National should get some type of medal too.

But maybe thats all thoughts for a different thread. Right now I think all together parking is a good idea that will lead to inclusion for the membership who attends a National.

[Guest my3buicks]

I may be shallow, but thankfully I am not that shallow that I need a medal because I chose to drive one of the Buicks I love to a meet. What ever happened to plain old pride?

[07 HD]

Sounds like I will just cancel my registration to drive my 1967 wildcat convert, this class does not seem to be appreciated by a lot of members. Not sure what would be so tuff about getting different color dash cards for different classes (driven-display-archival-judged-modified ),and park with like cars It will definitely be more comfortable and about 60 % cheaper on fuel to drive the 2011 Lucerne. And when people make arguments against, saying they don't want the family wagon with 5 kids and a dog in and out all day is so far from what happens at a buick show it was just a very stupid comment.

Edited January 21, 2014 by 07 HD
more info (see edit history)

[Guest my3buicks]

07 HD, are you bringing the 67 because you want to drive and enjoy and show your car for people to enjoy or because you want a medal for driving it?

[07 HD]

07 HD, are you bringing the 67 because you want to drive and enjoy and show your car for people to enjoy or because you want a medal for driving it?

I could really care less about a plaque, want to drive it and enjoy the company of other BCA members

[07 HD]

Want to drive and enjoy, and visit with other BCA members could really care less about a plaque or medal, what happen to members gathering and having fun not just go to see if their car is better than what everybody else brought.

[Guest my3buicks]

How is used to be

[NTX5467]

Cars parked "all over"? What about the 2003 Flint meet, with cars parked all over the Sloan Museum grounds? Not a judged meet, but cars "everywhere", in groups by model year or type (Reattas, etc.)? Who complained about that, then, as we're now seeing about past BCA National Meets held at hotel venues?

Obviously, there are many varied orientations on this issue! Problem I see is that it's turning into something like we've been seeing in Washington, DC for the past 6 years! One group wants everything "their way" or "no way". Although there are compelling reasons for either type of parking arrangement, there can only be ONE way at the meet. In the coming event, it will be "all together", as requested. Until the dust has settled, how it'll play out is pure speculation!

It seems that NO BCA member wants their Buick to be considered "second-rate" compared to another BCA member's Buick. Why the paranoia about that? There're all Buicks, just with different orientations (i.e., correctly-restored, modified, survivor, etc.). They ALL should be celebrated as a part of Buick history, even if they might be parked in divisional segments by model year or orientation. I would also hope that all owners of vehicles which will grace the show field WILL have them looking their best -- period! Sure, a "driver" might slide with a little less detailing than a 400 point or Modified (as it wouldn't make it look any better, by observation), but still be "presentable" in nature AND honor the place it has on the show field for what it is. Unfortunately, as in any social system, there can be a certain "pecking order" that'll be there no matter what OR would be dependent upon what Buick is parked next to what other Buick.

There's one other thing which I feel some might be missing. Back when the "big issues" included the deductions for halogen headlights and radial tires (on vehicles they didn't come with OEM), then office manager Val Ingram commented, when the "reason" the BCA should allow those things when other vehicle hobby groups did, was that "This is the BCA, which is supposed to be the premier Buick club, period. As such, our judging standards will and should be higher than those of other car clubs (which accept Buicks into their ranks)." (That might be a little paraphrased, but the message is clear)

In THAT orientation, if I attended ANY national-level car meet of one marque, where judging is done, I would expect the vehicles to be parked in some sort of order on the designated show field. That's just the way it should be done for a professional appearance, to me. We ARE the BUICK CLUB, not a different club, and BCA National Meets certainly are NOT a weekend cruise event -- period. Many have mentioned "marketing the club", so consider just how a rank spectator might view the club if the show field looks disorganized or hodge-podgey in what's parked where? Like a "parking lot" rather than a hallowed "show field"? A "parking lot" where people just drove in and parked their car?

In any successful show event, there HAS to be some sort of organization in how things are done or orchestrated, which includes parking vehicles on the show field. PLUS, the "level of execution" of making things work needs to be at a high level, even if it might mean doing additional things to ensure everything works "as designed". EACH show is different due to its venue and related issues. This can make the job of the site selection/planning group that much harder. It can also result in some perceived-desireable locations not being deemed "acceptable", too. Some places which you might think would be capable of handling the meet, show field, banquet, etc. just don't work out, sometimes.

So, for here and now, how about if everybody accepts the parking situation for 2014 "as it is" and sees how it works, this year. THEN, after all of the dust has settled, each show participant fills out a survey form (placed in their information packet) of how they thought everything went, sending it to a designated, impartial third-party for compilation. This way, feedback from those "in the trenches" would be gathered for consideration of how to proceed into future BCA National Meet event show field situations. As with any survey, how it's configured and "languaged" can be important to what the ultimate data might be, so "getting it right" is important for accurate data.

Now, from my observations over the years, planning for how many vehicles might show up at any particular BCA National Meet can be nothing more than "a crapshoot". That includes planning for how many of which trophies and awards will be needed, also! This fact can complicate potential site selection, to a great degree! Let's say that the selection group makes their "best guess" for how many vehicles and participants might come to a meet two years in advance . . . and things change, for whatever reason. Say the economy improves and we get $ .99 gasoline again, or it goes the other way. In the first situation, there probably won't be enough parking for show vehicles, much less normal hotel customers, and any designated room blocks will sell out quickly. In the second situation, "over-capacity" will be operative as the number of "room-nights" contracted for (possibly) will not be met, which can be an extra expense on the BCA. I don't know of any real scientific way to approach it, other than "crapshoot".

The other consideration is that after the selection group gets all of the contracts in place and signed, as the show's time approaches, there might need to be some "returns to the venue" to ensure that everything agreed to is still operative. If something's changed, how can that change be best dealt with? The "bird-dogging" situation, which can also result in "advance damage control", as needed. The level of and numbers of participants will need to be monitored, too, as will the number of show cars entered. It's all a continuous situation, rather than a "sign it and forget about it" situation. Just as "continuous improvement" should also be an orientation for any annual car event.

I also tend to concur with Alan's comments about "conspiracy theories". I doubt "the fence" was put there just to cause "issues", but for a valid reason by the property's owner, not related to the BCA National Meet per se. I would also certainly hope that no malice regarding which vehicle groups are parked where has ever in play, at any past or future BCA National Meet, either.

One way or another, this whole situation will get figured out! Positive input and possible, workable solutions can help, as always. A "can do" orientation for a variable situation.

(Previous disclaimer applies to this post, too.)

Regards,

Willis Bell 20811

Edited January 21, 2014 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

WHAT WILLIS SAID.

Lets ENJOY our Buicks. ALL of them.

Ben

[Guest wildcat465]

So, I wonder if anyone in the BCA leadership is counting how many members wrote emails and letters that are for or against All Together Parking.....

14 so far, including you and Bill.

[Pomeroy41144]

Wow. Tell us how you really feel about the Driven Class.

Could not care less people-- The correct phrase is "could not care less." Not "could care less."

We entered our Buick in the driven class and we could not care less about winning a medal. Never entered our minds. We just wanted to be there.

I should have entered the car in the 400 so we could see where we needed some attention.

[60FlatTop]

Our chapter hosted the 2005 meet in Batavia and I think that was the first driven class event. It was a big hit and a lot of cars participated. We filled the front lawn of the hotel with cars. It was an alphabet soup of Buicks:

I entered my '60 in the class and it just seemed out of the mainstream of the more orderly show field:

I remember it was wet walking around in the grass, too. As I remember there were only four judged 59-60's and then waaaay over around the corner was mine. I figured next time I would register for judging to be with cars like mine. I'll be at the next east coast meet with something.

Bernie

Edited January 21, 2014 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

I should have entered the car in the 400 so we could see where we needed some attention.

You can learn just as much from attending a BCA National and being around your car when some of the knowledgeable folks come around and talk with you. It's my understanding and I may be wrong, that the quality (read: experience) of BCA judges has gone down in the past few years and you might get different score for different reasons in different years.

I have never been able to take one of my Buicks to a National meet but I have been involved in many around the car discussion sessions, asking questions or just soaking up the knowledge. Sometimes members walk between cars back and forth.

I was on a judging team for the GS Skylarks in Ames, Iowa and I had never judged that class or paid much attention to them before I was on the team. That's a real world example of the judging "quality" of some 400 point judging teams. There just weren't enough volunteers.

Bottom line: A BCA National meet is the last place a person should bring their car for judgment of perfection. I don't mean that negatively, I mean you should consult the other members that have original examples of your car who are already in the club, also the technical experts that are organized by Barney Eaton, Pete Phillips, Alan Oldfield and the many sub-groups within the BCA, such as the 1936-1938 group, the Pre War Division, the 1959 group, etc.

In my opinion, of course.

[buick5563]

I'm actually not entirely disagreeing with Keith.

BUT.....

My point that I have brought up about the Driven Class is that you register for it. That means there is a fee. Money comes in. More money than the plaque costs. Therefore, if you want an extra memento, you pay for it. The BCA makes money. If your car is also registered in 400 point judging, you pay for that also. The BCA makes money.

Look, I have three driven awards. Two of em still in plastic and one I altered to say Driven Hard for the front of my wagon since I show it at Hot Rod shows more than Buick shows, and since I don't have a tattoo I need to appear to be a bad-a$$ in another way

Was my letter counted in your count Paul?

It was written before you were on the board.

You know I love you Big Guy

[Mark Shaw]

Paul,

It seems you are only counting posts on this thread. How many letters & emails have been written to the BOD?

[Centurion]

Sounds like I will just cancel my registration to drive my 1967 wildcat convert, this class does not seem to be appreciated by a lot of members.

07 HD, I can assure you that your '67 Wildcat convertible will be greatfly appreciated by me! And I'm eager to see it parked right alongside dmfconsult's '67 Electra 225 convertible. These big Buicks are among my favorite models.

[Guest BJM]

07 HD, I can assure you that your '67 Wildcat convertible will be greatfly appreciated by me! And I'm eager to see it parked right alongside dmfconsult's '67 Electra 225 convertible. These big Buicks are among my favorite models.

I agree! There are no bad Buicks. In fact, because we don't see too many of the 67's, I would likely gravitate toward your car. There are NO bad Wildcats!

[Guest wildcat465]

Paul,

It seems you are only counting posts on this thread. How many letters & emails have been written to the BOD?

Mark, I do not have any correspondence to the BOD prior to when I joined the board at the National Meet in July regarding parking.

The number I put up to answer your question in the prior post was the total emails I have about parking. Yours and Bill's, and 12 more since the letters to the editor were printed in the December and January Bugles were printed asking members to send the BOD an email regarding parking.

I have not added any comments on this thread to my email total, I do not know how many of those who have posted are BCA members.

BTW, Ted. I hope to inspect your new 'Cat some evening in Portland along with you and a frosty adult beverage.

[Bill - 29 Buick]

The number I put up to answer your question in the prior post was the total emails I have about parking. Yours and Bill's, and 12 more since the letters to the editor were printed in the December and January Bugles were printed asking members to send the BOD an email regarding parking.

Mike:

Don't forget the 32 of 33 Driven and 8 of 9 Pre-War Archival car owners in attendance at South Bend who signed a poll in favour of All-together-Parking - which were forwarded to the BOD at the end of July.

Bill McLaughlin

BCA 7160

[Barney Eaton]

I have attempted to follow this loooooong post. Almost every posting wants to see "together" parking, which seems to be a great idea, putting all the same years of cars together. It would allow people to more easily compare similar vehicles/years.

The judging concern could be worked out with (color) windshield cards. I know this already exist....the problem is they are presently pale colors that sometimes are not that obvious. Education/information also needs some help..... with all cars parked together, some people might think a driven car (which might have some modifications) was correct. I think you know people like this at work or in your club.... something in the registration package that explains that different classes will be parked together.

Last is the organization of the show field. Each year I work on a small show (200 cars max) Until all the registration is in, you do not know how many car will be in a class. Add the driven class (someone, maybe Roy) will need to take the entry and add that car (count) to the proper class. This generates another step in admin that was not there in past years. What happens if the entrant disagrees? The point... when laying out the show field you need to know how many cars are in a class so there are spaces for all. The next crisis will be... not having a place to park because not enough space was allotted for that class. You can build in a cushion but if your show field is tight....there may not be space to a cushion spaces.

I can be counted as favoring the all together showing, but it is not without potential problems.

[Mark Shaw]

Barney,

Inexpensive colored stickers have been suggested to easily identify the different judged and non-judged classes, and this eliminates the need for different colored windshield cards. The proposed change to All Together Parking By Era will require the same number of parking spaces as before when all classes are parked on the show field. It only eliminates the Chief Judges authority to segregate some classes to be parked off the show field.

The NMC is now responsible to select National Meet venues with sufficient parking space. Others on the forum may have the actual counts, but I understand the BCA typically has less than 450 Buicks at National meets. Part of the spacing problem is that later model two door Buicks require more than one parking space on the show field, while most prewar cars and many four door cars have smaller doors and could be parked in single spaces. In any case, the NMC should have good attendance records of how many of each class is expected in each area of the country. So, I don't think space constraints should ever be a problem if the NMC does the proper research.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[Guest my3buicks]

LMAO, we did this for decades at Nationals before there was the term "Driven Class" - now it's such a big deal trying to figure out how to do it. Unbelievable !! One of the worst things the BCA ever had shoved down their throats was the terminology "Driven Class", they used to be known as "Do not Judge" Having been at meetings and privy to the set up of the Driven Class at the time, it was a railroad job from the start to make a separate class for the cars that were just there for display.

Edited January 22, 2014 by my3buicks (see edit history)

[Fr. Buick]

Please count me in for All Together Parking. And looking forward to attending with a '54 driven from SoCal.

[ted sweet]

I don't care if the driven cars are parked in the classes but just not in another area like in south bend

[1937-44]

I don't care if the driven cars are parked in the classes but just not in another area like in south bend

I think it would be best if cars could be parked "in class" whether judged, display or driven but mainly I agree with Ted. South Bend changed my opinion about entering a car in the driven class. Despite assurances from Mike that there were mistakes, I will be hard pressed to ever enter another car at Nationals as none of my cars are restored.

Carl

[dibarlaw]

Since we were on the South Bend museum tour apparently I did not get the message. No one came up to me and told me to move my shabby 1,553 mile round trip 1937-41 from the field. When I judged on Saturday morning is when I noticed all the driven cars in the lot across the street. Someone I overheard later said it should have been moved. Oh well, sorry if I upset any of my neighbors.

[1937-44]

I for one was glad to see your car and in my opinion it was parked where it should have been parked.

The club keeps saying how they need new members and need to increase revenue to keep operating. Most new members are going to have cars like ours (shabby is your term, not mine) and if we treat the members with cars that show there age strictly for revenue and isolate them from cars of there era because they aren't 400 point cars can we really expect them to remain members and return? I've been a member for a lot of years and I'm having second thoughts.

Carl

[Guest BJM]

Since we were on the South Bend museum tour apparently I did not get the message. No one came up to me and told me to move my shabby 1,553 mile round trip 1937-41 from the field.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]231701[/ATTACH]

Larry don't ever do that again (just kidding) I believe your car was left alone because IT BELONGED there! You think? Nice car.

[Mark Shaw]

Please keep in mind that the national meets are four day events with only one day dedicated to judging!

My basic premise is that all members who bring a Buick to a national meet, should be able to park on the show field with similar cars. Cars could certainly be grouped together in judging classes as long as they are not required by the BCA to park in a segregated area away from other similar cars. This would enable owners to compare cars and socialize with others who may or may not show their car in the same judging class. Those who have 400 point judged class Buicks could then help those who are in the process or considering a 400 point restoration. Alternatively, those who have an older restoration may consider joining the BDE and touring with their Buick etc.

[BUKE]

Since we were on the South Bend museum tour apparently I did not get the message. No one came up to me and told me to move my shabby 1,553 mile round trip 1937-41 from the field. When I judged on Saturday morning is when I noticed all the driven cars in the lot across the street. Someone I overheard later said it should have been moved. Oh well, sorry if I upset any of my neighbors.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]231701[/ATTACH]

OH HOW IT HURTS TO HEAR THE WORD SHABBY IN THE SAME BREATH WITH BUICK.I to agree Larry that your car should be were it was. I do appreciate the board's hard work but I think there should be much more effort in keeping us all united. My next thought is to show our new members that we are a GREAT club not a bunch of snubs.i once owend a frame off 55 roadmaster that won gold the first time out in plano tx. but I sold it because I could not drive it (to nervous).I now have four buick's that I call drivers and smile every time I hear a horn or a see a wave. I congratulate every BUICK I see. With the grace off god and if the creek don't rise I will drive my 1940 from boston ma. to Portland OR..and park nextto somebody with 6 kids and a bUICK wagon.nufsaid.

Have a great BUICK day

FRANK (BUKE)

[Guest 75RivGS]

Planning to attend the '14 Nats, but we still have to find ourselves a nice Buick. (any leads to a 67/68 Electra/Wildcat or 71 Riviera in CA/OR/WA appreciated)

One thing for sure: it won't be a Buick to be judged, but a working horse, for we're planning a couple of thousand more miles around that time.

Main reason to attend is to be around other Buicks, owners and enthusiasts.

Don't care for judgements, but that's probably because here in Europe we hardly see any judged (US car-) shows; the main reason to gather is to meet other people and see cars you like (BCA Nats: Buicks of all model years and conditions). So I would vote for an 'All together parking'.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

OH HOW IT HURTS TO HEAR THE WORD SHABBY IN THE SAME BREATH WITH BUICK.I to agree Larry that your car should be were it was. I do appreciate the board's hard work but I think there should be much more effort in keeping us all united. My next thought is to show our new members that we are a GREAT club not a bunch of snubs.i once owend a frame off 55 roadmaster that won gold the first time out in plano tx. but I sold it because I could not drive it (to nervous).I now have four buick's that I call drivers and smile every time I hear a horn or a see a wave. I congratulate every BUICK I see. With the grace off god and if the creek don't rise I will drive my 1940 from boston ma. to Portland OR..and park nextto somebody with 6 kids and a bUICK wagon.nufsaid.

Have a great BUICK day

FRANK (BUKE)

My sentiments exactly!! Right on Buke.

Ben

[Den41Buick]

I will have to say I enjoy going to the shows when the cars are lined up by year. That way you can compare the changes year to year. Nuff said.

[Mark Shaw]

Yesterday, the 2014 BCA National Meet Chairman, Mike Book, held a meeting at the host hotel with Northwest BCA Chapter members to review plans for this year's BCA National Meet.

During that meeting, he confirmed that ALL BUICKS IN ALL CLASSES WILL BE PARKED ON THE SHOW FIELD.

So, if you have been holding back on registering for this year's National Meet, please send in your registration soon so the parking layout can be planned accordingly.

The general membership meeting will start at 7 PM Thursday July 24th where members can encourage the BOD to make All Together Parking BCA policy for all future National Meets.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[Bill - 29 Buick]

Yesterday, the 2014 BCA National Meet Chairman, Mike Book, held a meeting at the host hotel with Northwest BCA Chapter members to review plans for this year's BCA National Meet.

During that meeting, he confirmed that ALL BUICKS IN ALL CLASSES WILL BE PARKED ON THE SHOW FIELD.

So, if you have been holding back on registering for this year's National Meet, please send in your registration soon so the parking layout can be planned accordingly.

The general membership meeting will start at 7 PM Thursday July 24th where members can encourage the BOD to make All Together Parking BCA policy for all future National Meets.

Perhaps Mr. Book would clarify whether "ALL BUICKS IN ALL CLASSES WILL BE PARKED ON THE SHOW FIELD" means:

* all cars will be on the same field but continue to be in separate Classes

* all cars will be parked by year irrespective of the Class they are register in

Thank you.

Bill McLaughlin

BCA 7160

Member of the All-Together-Parking By Era Movement

[Larry Schramm]

I am guessing that the cars will be parked in groups of the same model year??? I hope that is what it means.

[Guest my3buicks]

I hope it means that all cars will be on the same show field as they should be, but the driven class will continue to be grouped together. If all cars are to be grouped by year does that mean the modified will also be grouped with the non-modified?

[Mark Shaw]

Good questions, but I have no details about the layout.

Mike Book stressed that early registrations will greatly help to create an advanced parking plan.

I suggest that you contact Mike Book at the BCA office if you have more specific questions.