1963 Pontiac Tempest - something different

[dei]

Yesterday while working in the yard I look up to see this cream coloured car parking across the street. My curiosity is peaked and wander over. It appeared all stock and after a while the fellow came back and started to discuss his car. What I learned was it is powered by a 4 cylinder engine but... a slant 4! I was sure Pontiac used a 6 and possibly a V6 like the Buick Special did that year but a slant 4? Anyone familiar with this?

It sure did not look modified in any way and why would anyone go a four cylinder anyway? Even the rear end was not the usual differential. This has to be something rare right?

[old car fan]

I almost bought one(should have)last year.This one was a factory 4bbl/4 speed.V -8 cut in half.

[ronvb]

We owned 1 back in late 60's, neat little car it came with the 326 V8 or the 4 cyl--half of a V8 with automatic -shifter out of the dash and a transaxle in the rear. Did not cause us too many problems except for the transaxle noises.ronvb

[dei]

Yes, this fellow mentioned it was basically half of the Pontiac V8. His has the 2 speed automatic transmission. Can't be many of these out there.

[dei]

Here is the interior shot showing the shifter. Needles to say, it is different and I like that.

[Sweepspear]

The "Trophy 4" engine isn't the only interesting thing about the '61-'63 Tempest / Le mans.

They have a rear mounted trans axle with a flexible drive shaft that was referred to as a rope drive which ran through a tunnel.

My Father owned a `62 Tempest when I was a kid. Lots of memories of riding in that car.

[Steve Braverman]

I believe it's more or less a modified Corvair transaxle.

[joe_padavano]

I believe it's more or less a modified Corvair transaxle.

Correct. In fact, the automatics have the torque converter hanging out at the rear where the Corvair engine would have bolted to it. The platform is based on the Corvair platform (as were the 61-63 F-85 and Skylark, even though those cars had a conventional front engine and trans with live rear axle). The Slant 4 was exactly half of a 389 Pontiac V8, and many parts interchange. The 61-62 Tempests also had an optional aluminum 215 Buick V8. The 63 cars came with the iron Pontiac 326 as an option.

[kevin1221]

We had a '62 LeMans convertible with the 4 cyl engine. Dad bought it in 1964 and kept it until late 60s.

It was silver-blue, white top and blue interior.

It was a fun car to ride in as a kid.

Kevin

[PONTIAC1953]

back in the mid 1970's my little sister had a 62 tempest safari stationwagon with the same engine and trans, about twenty years ago i bought a 62 tempest lemans two door hardtop, it had the four barrel carb and four speed trans. your engine picture shows me that someone put exhaust headers on the car. i'm wondering what the thing is, that's mounted on the front of the cylinder head, where there should be a freeze plug. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

[D Yaros]

The slant 4 was one of the offerings by Pontiac for the Tempest in the early 60's. Do not know how many they sold, but am certain very few remain.

Interestingly, the Tempest eventually morphed into the GTO. Could you imagine a GTO with a slant 4?

[R W Burgess]

....................

Interestingly, the Tempest eventually morphed into the GTO. Could you imagine a GTO with a slant 4?

That body style did become the GTO, but it had the large body 389 engine with a standard drive train.

[Bleach]

Could you imagine a GTO with a slant 4?

It will fit.

[stakeside]

Yesterday while working in the yard I look up to see this cream coloured car parking across the street. My curiosity is peaked and wander over. It appeared all stock and after a while the fellow came back and started to discuss his car. What I learned was it is powered by a 4 cylinder engine but... a slant 4! I was sure Pontiac used a 6 and possibly a V6 like the Buick Special did that year but a slant 4? Anyone familiar with this?

It sure did not look modified in any way and why would anyone go a four cylinder anyway? Even the rear end was not the usual differential. This has to be something rare right?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]202901[/ATTACH]

I owned one. It had the 326 with a 4 barrel AFB carb. Red with black interior. A fun car but was hard on Corvair transmission and rear axle. If you lost one you loss both.

Tis would be one of the first cars of this size to have a large motor.]

[joe_padavano]

That body style did become the GTO, but it had the large body 389 engine with a standard drive train.

Nope, sorry, it did not. The 1961-63 cars were unibody on a 112" wheelbase. The 1964 A-body cars (including the GTO) were a completely new design with body on frame and a 115" wheelbase. Nothing interchanges between the two. Even the wheel bolt circle is different (5 x 4.5" for the 61-63 Tempest, 5 x 4.75" for the 64-up cars).

[john2dameron]

I have no recollection of Pontiac Tempest models having any engine except the 4-cylinder until the '63 models came out with the 326 V-8 and the 4-cylinder continued to be available that year. My brother bought a '63 4-door sedan new, black with a red interior. He only kept it a few months for what ever reason and traded it on a '63 Ford about March of 1963. Like Joe said, the '64 Tempest was a completely new design. If my memory is right, the 4-cylinder was no longer available, the rope drive was gone, a straight six was offered (I think it was a 250 cid) and the 326 V-8 was still offered in the Le Mans models and the 389 came only in the GTO. Horse power was 325 with a 4-barrel and 348 for the 3-deuces which Pontiac called Tri-Power. I took a notion I wanted a '65 GTO convertible. The local Pontiac had burnt me badly 2 years earlier and I never again tried to buy a car there. Went to the dealer in White Sulphur Springs WV and nothing had any value to them except what they were selling so that was a no-deal also and I did not get a GTO.

[joe_padavano]

I have no recollection of Pontiac Tempest models having any engine except the 4-cylinder until the '63 models came out with the 326 V-8 and the 4-cylinder continued to be available that year. My brother bought a '63 4-door sedan new, black with a red interior. He only kept it a few months for what ever reason and traded it on a '63 Ford about March of 1963. Like Joe said, the '64 Tempest was a completely new design. If my memory is right, the 4-cylinder was no longer available, the rope drive was gone, a straight six was offered (I think it was a 250 cid) and the 326 V-8 was still offered in the Le Mans models and the 389 came only in the GTO. Horse power was 325 with a 4-barrel and 348 for the 3-deuces which Pontiac called Tri-Power. I took a notion I wanted a '65 GTO convertible. The local Pontiac had burnt me badly 2 years earlier and I never again tried to buy a car there. Went to the dealer in White Sulphur Springs WV and nothing had any value to them except what they were selling so that was a no-deal also and I did not get a GTO.

The Buick version of the 215 was optionally available in the 61-62 cars, along with the slant 4 in one bbl and 4 bbl versions. The 326 replaced the 215 in 63. The 64 A-body cars all used body-on-frame with conventional drivelines and solid rear axles. The pushrod I6 was coincidentally also 215 cu in for 64-65 (a smaller bore version of the 230 Chevy I6), increased to 230 cu in when the OHC version was introduced for 66-67, then matched the Chevy increase to 250 cu in for 68-up until replaced by the Buick V6 in the late 1970s.

[Dave@Moon]

The '63 Tempest also came in a metallic mint green color very similar to one used on 1964 Buck Specials.

[joe_padavano]

The '63 Tempest also came in a metallic mint green color very similar to one used on 1964 Buck Specials.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]203082[/ATTACH]

Possibly my favorite movie of all time.

By the way, what is the ignition timing of a 1955 Bel Air with a 327 engine and 4bbl carb?

[Dave@Moon]

Possibly my favorite movie of all time.

By the way, what is the ignition timing of a 1955 Bel Air with a 327 engine and 4bbl carb?

Trick question. The 327 was an AMC motor.

BTW, I once met a woman very much like the Marissa Tomei character in every respect (except she was blond). I didn't sleep for a week!

[Marty Roth]

Trick question...

Cannot give you the ignition timing of a 1955 Chevy with the 327 engine, because the 1955 Chrevy was not available with a 327 engine....only the 235 inline-6 or the 265 V-8

and Marissa Tomei is the stuff that dreams are made of, especially for teenage boys (of all ages - including antique teenagers like us !)

[Guest]

The Buick version of the 215 was optionally available in the 61-62 cars, along with the slant 4 in one bbl and 4 bbl versions. The 326 replaced the 215 in 63. The 64 A-body cars all used body-on-frame with conventional drivelines and solid rear axles. The pushrod I6 was coincidentally also 215 cu in for 64-65 (a smaller bore version of the 230 Chevy I6), increased to 230 cu in when the OHC version was introduced for 66-67, then matched the Chevy increase to 250 cu in for 68-up until replaced by the Buick V6 in the late 1970s.

The Tempest when first came out helped propel Pontiac into the #3 sales position for about a decade. The drivetrain layout originally was to be used on full size Pontiac's. The drive train has many John DeLorean patents on it and was one of his first projects when he came to Pontiac in the fall of 1956. There were many cars (Pontiac's one Cadillac) converted from 1957-1959. The Tempest and LeMans models of 1961-62 did have the Buick 215 V-8 as a option. The standard engine, 1/2 of the right bank of the 389 Pontiac was called The "Indy Four" NOT the Trophy four. The reason so few people bought the Buick engine was for a few reasons. One brand imaging of those days went very deep with customers, in other words you don't put a Buick engine in a Pontiac and it is too bad Oldsmobile didn't learn from this lesson in the mid 70's.

Second, the performance version of the "Indy 4" for 1961 made 155hp the same as the Buick V-8. There were many advantages of the slant four, one of which was it could be built on the Pontiac big brother assy line and used a cylinder head and valve train, Pistons and rods, the SD Pontiac timing chain from the 389 Pontiac V-8. In 1961 alone Tempest sales accounted for 98,779 units and only 2,004 were built with the Buick engine.

For 1963 Pontiac discarded the Buick engine option and delivered a real Pontiac V-8. Badged the 326 the engine was really a 336 " engine. The 326 could also be built on the 389 engine assy line and used many 389 components like rods and valve train components. The 336, 326, 350 ( really a 355 ) and 389 all use a 3" main bearing 3 3/4 stroke crankshaft. The 1963 336 Tempest engine's bore and stroke are 3.78 X 3 3/4.

For 1964 GM corporate issued a cubic inch limit for the new intermediate "A" body cars. For 1964 Pontiac debored the 336 or badged to 326 dimensions or 3.72X 3 3/4.

Also of special note is Olds F-85/cutlass and Buick Special/Skylark 1961-1963 use 13" wheels and Tempest uses 15" wheels as this was probably done to move the wheel tuck issues that Corvair had higher when pushing the suspensions to the limits.

Pontiac GTO. All 1964 and 1965 GTO's are Pontiac LeMans with the GTO option. GTO does not become a series until 1966. In 1964 the base engine for Tempest/Lemans is the Chevy built to Pontiac dimension 215 straight six. In 1966 Pontiac designs it's own straight six 230" which has external oil pump water pump drive and a OHC cylinder head that uses a new fiberglass reinforced timing belt ( another DeLorean patent). The Pontiac six and Chevy six do share some internal parts though but remember the Pontiac six has select rods and is balanced to greater tolerances than the Chevy six because it has a 6,000 plus redline. In sprint versions with split factory headers, a quadrajet four barrel carburetor made 207hp and in the later versions of 1969 at 250 cubic inches made 230hp, enough to blow away most small V-8's of the era. Royal Pontiac's national record holder was doing 14 second quarter mile passes at mid 90's mph with this six in stock configuration.

[Bleach]

The '63 Tempest also came in a metallic mint green color very similar to one used on 1964 Buck Specials.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]203082[/ATTACH]

[Sweepspear]

The standard engine, 1/2 of the right bank of the 389 Pontiac was called The "Indy Four" NOT the Trophy four.

I hadn't heard it called the Indy 4 before. Not saying it never was, but note the verbiage on the left side of the '61 brochure. Could the name have changed after '61?

[Guest]

I hadn't heard it called the Indy 4 before. Not saying it never was, but note the verbiage on the left side of the '61 brochure. Could the name have changed after '61?

From 1957 to 1960 Pontiac had won many victories in NASCAR and in drag racing. The Pontiac V-8 was originally named the Strato Streak V-8. In 1958 it was named the Tempest V-8 and this nomenclature was used to the end of the 1960 model year. Because of all these victories for the 1961 and beyond the engine was renamed the "TROPHY V-8". The Tempest four cylinder was named the "INDY Four". Even Hemmings gets this wrong in articles to but there can be no mistake because it's in print adds for the 61-63 Tempest sale literature. The GM photo store gets it right using a picture of a engineering Indy four blown test mule on a stand.

http://www.gmphotostore.com/images/53217182_pr.jpg

The 194 cid Pontiac 'Indy Four' engine pictured here provided supercharged power to the 1961 Tempest 'Monte Carlo' show car. The slant-four configuration was derived from a 389 V8 engine cut in half. Official GM Photograph from the General Motors Media Archives.

This image is available as a framed or unframed museum quality archive print that will last a lifetime and be a personal treasure of the history of General Motors.

GM PhotoStore images are printed as a matte finish and continuous tone with a full bleed. The images have exceptionally sharp detail at an apparent resolution of 4000 dpi. Note: some images may be cropped to fit print size.

Edited July 18, 2013 by helfen (see edit history)

[richl]

Dad bought one in 1963.   It was his first ever new car.   Two unique features were the 4 cylinder engine which was actually the right half of the Pontiac 389 V8 and no hump behind the engine because the transmission was located in the rear via

a long torque tube.   Performance was OK but not spectacular.  Vibration on the other hand was horrible.   Dad was always a Pontiac guy but disillusioned by this Tempest.   In 1965 he traded it in for a GTO which I believe was a tempest option.   Tempest was also made larger in 1964 and introduced the GTO option.   As much as he disliked the Tempest, he loved that GTO !

 

[DLynskey]

When my buddy read in Hot Rod magazine that Pontiac was going to put a V6 in the Tempest, he went down the next day and ordered this "plain jane" red one-- 326 engine and stick shift. It was fast!!

 

 

 

Don

[Frank DuVal]

They lied, or guessed wrong! Pontiac did not get the Buick V-6 engine. The Tempest got an inline 6 for 1964, but not for 1963. 1963 was still the 4 or the V-8 (326 advertised). Then in 1966 Pontiac got the 230 cu in six with overhead cam!😉🚗🚓

[stakeside]

15 hours ago, DLynskey said:

When my buddy read in Hot Rod magazine that Pontiac was going to put a V6 in the Tempest, he went down the next day and ordered this "plain jane" red one-- 326 engine and stick shift. It was fast!!

 

 

 

Don

Mine was dark red. Yes they were fast but that Corvair transaxle was very weak.

[Pfeil]

21 hours ago, richl said:

Dad bought one in 1963.   It was his first ever new car.   Two unique features were the 4 cylinder engine which was actually the right half of the Pontiac 389 V8 and no hump behind the engine because the transmission was located in the rear via

a long torque tube.   Performance was OK but not spectacular.  Vibration on the other hand was horrible.   Dad was always a Pontiac guy but disillusioned by this Tempest.   In 1965 he traded it in for a GTO which I believe was a tempest option.   Tempest was also made larger in 1964 and introduced the GTO option.   As much as he disliked the Tempest, he loved that GTO !

 

As I mentioned before the INDY 4 was a 389 cut in half. It used Pontiac 389 bearings, rod, Head, valvetrain and made 166HP in the 4bbl version 1962&3.

  What I did not mention earlier was a small, but large fact that the Tempest automatic cars transaxle while similar to Corvair had something in common with the big cars Controlled Coupling HydraMatic which is (Super HydraMatic- Pontiac, Jetaway-Olds, P315 HydraMatic-Cadillac). and HydraMatic 375 (Olds-Pontiac called Roto HydraMatic. That common thing was called split torque. Split torque is a power flow diversion in the trans whereby in high gear engine torque is split or divides 40% through the coupling and 60% full mechanical connection. In Tempest transaxle case 40% through the converter, 60% mechanical connection. So, take notice the word coupling and converter. Also note the 1963 336(326) transaxle does not have split torque feature, just the 4 cylinder.

 Also note of concern to readers is the Buick 215 V-8, Yes, an option on 1961-2 only 2% of the buyers opted for this engine, I'll add that Pontiac engines belong in Pontiacs. Back then a major portion of the brand was associated with the brands own engine. Something Oldsmobile had to learn all over in the mid 70's.

 The Indy 4 won a lot of racing trophies in the early 60's primarily by people like Mickey Thompson.

Today Nunzie a east coast Pontiac builder/racer is racing a Indy 4-cylinder 1963 Tempest naturally aspirated through a 4bbl car that is a low 12 second high 11 second car. An unbelievable achievement for sure, but just to prove it see the video below.

 

 

 

  

 

[DrData]

 Dad worked for the GMC Truck & Coach Division and had one of the first Tempests as a company car. One of the guys he worked with had serial number 7! I remember it as a nice enough little car. The GMC Truck people were not keen on it since they usually got big 4 door Catalina’s as company cars.  Another year, they got the very early Suburbans as company cars which were still pretty basic trucks…not near as nice as the modern Suburban.

[CTCV]

I recently posted in WANT TO BUY parts forum looking for a Rochester 2G carb. for the smaller CID GM engines. The cars mentioned in this post most likely had the carb I need. So if anyone has one please get back to me. Apologies for jumping the post. 
Tony

[rocketraider]

Pfeil- is Nunzi still alive? I know a rumour (later proven false by his son) went around a few years ago that he had passed. He must be all over 80 cause he's been working Pontiac Magic for a long time as proven by this snotty little Tempest.

[Pfeil]

2 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Pfeil- is Nunzi still alive? I know a rumour (later proven false by his son) went around a few years ago that he had passed. He must be all over 80 cause he's been working Pontiac Magic for a long time as proven by this snotty little Tempest.

Nunzi Romano BIO

Nunzi Romano BIO | Pontiac Preservation Association