GAS PRICES

[Guest WEB 38]

If we can not fix and maintain our bridges and highways on $4 plus gas, Can someone tell me how IKE built all the Interstate highways on .25 cent gas???????????? Bill web 38

[Dave@Moon]

If we can not fix and maintain our bridges and highways on $4 plus gas, Can someone tell me how IKE built all the Interstate highways on .25 cent gas???????????? Bill web 38

From: When did the Federal Government begin collecting the gas tax? - Ask the Rambler - Highway History - FHWA

In 1956, the outside interests agreed with congressional leaders on a compromise for funding the Interstate System. The gas tax would be increased to 3 cents, but highway user tax revenue from excise taxes on gasoline, tire rubber, tube rubber, and the sales tax on new trucks, buses, and trailers would be credited to a new Highway Trust Fund and reserved for use on the Interstate System and other highway projects. (The Highway Trust Fund is modeled after the Social Security Trust Fund-that is, the revenue goes into the general treasury, but is credited to the Fund.) The Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956, which President Eisenhower signed on June 29, 1956, adopted this compromise.

A funding shortage in the late 1950's led President Eisenhower to request a temporary increase of the gas tax to 4.5 cents a gallon. Despite opposition to an increase from the usual opponents, Congress increased the tax, but only to 4 cents on a temporary basis, in the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1959 (September 21, 1959). The Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1961, which President John F. Kennedy approved on June 29, 1961, the 5^th anniversary of the 1956 Act, retained the 4-cent tax and extended it through September 30, 1972.

The tax remained 4 cents a gallon until the Surface Transportation Assistance Act of 1982, which President Ronald Reagan approved on January 6, 1983. The Act increased the tax to 9 cents, but the legislation created two separate accounts in the Highway Trust Fund. The Highway Account would receive 8 cents of the revenue while the new Mass Transit Account would receive 1 cent of the gas tax.

Corrected for inflation, 4 cents/gal. in 1959 would equal almost exactly 31 cents/gal. today.

The current Federal gas tax has been 18.4 cents per gallon since 1993.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Dave@Moon
wrong year (see edit history)

[John_Maine]

Plus the price of everything else has gone up 2, 3, 4........10 times since the 50's.

[Guest 37Packard]

When Ike was president $10K a year was considered a very good income....

[Guest]

This is where the problems start to come from, they should be stand alone accounts;

Interstate System and other highway projects. (The Highway Trust Fund is modeled after the Social Security Trust Fund-that is, the revenue goes into the general treasury, but is credited to the Fund.)

[Seldenguy]

Also when Ike was there you could buy a recognizable entry level car for around $2000 or less. Today that entry level cookie cutter will be close to $ 20,000.--Bob

[Guest Skyking]

Also when Ike was there you could buy a recognizable entry level car for around $2000 or less. Today that entry level cookie cutter will be close to $ 20,000.--Bob

..............and who says they weren't better times?:eek:

[Trulyvintage]

My idea is this ...

Pass legislation at the national level requiring that any fuel source manufactured in this country

must made available for sale domestically to serve the needs of this country before the fuel source can be exported ...

We export # 2 diesel to foreign markets - more than most folks realize - primarily to Europe.

Our domestic crude oil production has exceeded storage capacity.

Jim

[Guest 37Packard]

Gas here in the Louisville area has increased in the last two weeks from $3.20 to $3.90 a gallon. Does anyone know why? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Guest billybird]

Bottom line.....GREED! When "Ike" was president the powers that be {aka thugs } were not as numerous or as greedy as they are now. We're victims of extortion, plain and simple.

[Guest]

My idea is this ...

Pass legislation at the national level requiring that any fuel source manufactured in this country

must made available for sale domestically to serve the needs of this country before the fuel source can be exported ...

We export # 2 diesel to foreign markets - more than most folks realize - primarily to Europe.

Our domestic crude oil production has exceeded storage capacity.

Jim

Jim the only thing you would get would be those same companies refining offshore, and a loss of jobs here.

[nickelroadster]

If we were to mandate that no petroleum products were exported, we would loose the jobs in the refining industry. We have to import most of our fuel to start with and at least when we export finished products we are adding value and creating wealth for the country. What would we do if other countries banned the export of petroleum to us. We still basically have among the lowest prices for oil in the world. I have never understood all the complaining about the price of gas. We don't have a constitutional right to cheap oil. If the price is too high than don't buy it and that will soon solve the problem. It takes both a buyer and a seller in any market. When any of us sell a car, we are usually a little "greedy" and sell it for as much as we can get it for. That is how capitalism works.

[72caddy]

I am close to the refining business and now is the time the refinerys are changing over from winter blends to summer blends. So there is a temporary shortage in refined fuel output while these plants cycle over. Then they have to start the plan back up. These are complicated and dynamic plants, you can't just flip a switch. Blame speculators not the gas companies. Demand, or fear, sets the prices.

[MarkV]

Gas is ridiculous! I see people here complaining about 3.20 vs 3.90 our gas has been above 3.50 for years! I live in California, where we have a "special blend". This blend costs more therefore we feel it. The problem is not the price but the fact that people cannot find good enough jobs to pay for it. Everyone I know regardless of education, experience, age with the exception of a couple of people who work in the medical field are all part time. When my grandparents were my age they bought their first house, when my parents were my age they were renting and about a year away from buying their own house. Even if I eliminated everything I own I could not afford rent on my own on my pay. See where this is going? Every generation is dealing with less and less. More costly goods and services and jobs which pay less and less.

[Rusty_OToole]

Ike was a General who knew how to get things done.

[John_Maine]

Regarding $10K per year back in the 50's - I remember watching a movie from 1956-1957 with Gregory Peck in it. He was riding in a car with a couple of other men when one of them told Peck's character that if he came to work for him, he would offer him a salary of $7K per year. Peck's character's response was that that was an awful lot of money and he wasn't worthy of earning that much. Back in the early 60's, I remember my father coming home from work with his pay envelope saying that if he only made $100 per week, we would be so much better off. My mother was a school teacher so with both incomes, my folks did okay. Then in 1963, my uncle bought a '62 Olds Super 88 and I remember him saying it cost $10 per week in gas for him to go back and forth to work - about 40 miles a day. My parents were shocked that he could afford to spend that much in gas. It's all relative, I guess.

[72caddy]

Gas will continue to go up. There are other countries on the planet that have larger populations than the US that are now experiencing what the US saw in the late 40's and early 50's -- more disposalable income than they ever have had before. When I go to China the difference from year to year is pretty amazing. When I look back to my first trip it almost seems impossible the amount of change in consumerism.

All commodities are going to go up regardless of our own conservation and government actions on our soil. The best news is that we are heading towards more oil independence and Canada has a lots of oil sands nearby...but China just bought one of the big oil sand owners, so a good bit of that will be exported.

In a macro economic view, the trends that influence prices, inflation, and availability have been showing this for many years and I expect it to continue... its not all bad, but you shouldn't think in terms of a turn-around as much as using this knowledge to your benefit.

I do feel for those that are suffering and have hardships. Gas prices do directly affect a persons ability to provide other necessities. In isolated areas like mine, if you don't have a car I don't see how you can get a job (hardly any public transport) let alone get groceries, etc.

I am not for bigger government, but those WPA projects after WWII sure did employ a lot of people and made our countries infrastructure stronger. We have done little to keep pace with a growing population.

Off my soap box an back to cool old cars....

[Guest]

Gas is ridiculous! I see people here complaining about 3.20 vs 3.90 our gas has been above 3.50 for years! I live in California, where we have a "special blend". This blend costs more therefore we feel it. The problem is not the price but the fact that people cannot find good enough jobs to pay for it. Everyone I know regardless of education, experience, age with the exception of a couple of people who work in the medical field are all part time. When my grandparents were my age they bought their first house, when my parents were my age they were renting and about a year away from buying their own house. Even if I eliminated everything I own I could not afford rent on my own on my pay. See where this is going? Every generation is dealing with less and less. More costly goods and services and jobs which pay less and less.

People can't find jobs in California because the state is driving businesses away, has it's own cap and trade regulations that are going to be implemented this year which utilities warned us that natural gas and electricity rates will triple. California has one of the HIGHEST property tax, sales tax, business tax, and average price for a home. The state has a 28 billion dollar fiscal deficit, and a overall combined deficit between 135 and 185 billion dollars. The reason it's between 135 and 185 billion is because the state can't even do it's own math to find out the real numbers. Until the people of the state elect responsible, practical people it will continue to decline. The fix is in the hands of the voter. This year the voters floated a state wide school bond that will be added to your property tax bill, in addition many local districts passed county school bonds as well. Just the local in my area will add another $250. to a already overblown property tax bill. Yes the people did this to themselves at a economic time such as this. It is so easy to do when the voters OK-ed a simple 51% majority for passing bills, where in the past it's always been 2/3 majority. Virtually no checks against runaway spending. What will happen when the takers outvote the makers....it's very close now.

[414TATA]

Seems to me it is about supply and demand as stated above.

The Chinese and Indians are not riding bicycles any more. ( I hear they like Buicks:))

Wayne

[jdome]

The Federal Fuel Tax is an exsise tax paid at the time it is refined. The fuel distributor pays the refiner the 18.4 cents tax and of course passes that on to the local dealer and you eventually pay that at the pump. So when the distributor dilutes the gas with 10% ethanol to make E10, you actually only pay 9/10th or 16.5 cents. But wait there's more! Not only is there no fuel tax on ethanol but the distributor gets 51 cents tax credit per gallon of ethanol he buys, so in theory, there is a nickle credit passed on to the pump on E10 for an effective tax rate of 11.5 cents at the pump. E85 has an effective "fuel tax" of negative 40.6 cents at the pump. They pay you to buy it. Now you know why they can't fill the pot holes. Is this a great country or what?

[Dave@Moon]

The Federal Fuel Tax is an exsise tax paid at the time it is refined. The fuel distributor pays the refiner the 18.4 cents tax and of course passes that on to the local dealer and you eventually pay that at the pump. So when the distributor dilutes the gas with 10% ethanol to make E10, you actually only pay 9/10th or 16.5 cents. But wait there's more! Not only is there no fuel tax on ethanol but the distributor gets 51 cents tax credit per gallon of ethanol he buys, so in theory, there is a nickle credit passed on to the pump on E10 for an effective tax rate of 11.5 cents at the pump. E85 has an effective "fuel tax" of negative 40.6 cents at the pump. They pay you to buy it. Now you know why they can't fill the pot holes. Is this a great country or what?

That was true through Dec. 31, 2011. All of those tax credits for ethanol expired on Jan. 1, 2012. ( Federal Tax Credit for Ethanol Expires - Petroleum - Convenience Store News )

[72caddy]

They love buicks - especially the minivans. You don't want to drive in either country - especially in China. So you hire a driver and buy your own van. They are everywhere. GM is doing very well in China.

[60FlatTop]

When ever I stop for gas these days I fill the tank. I didn't do that so much when gas was cheap.

Bernie

[jdome]

That was true through Dec. 31, 2011. All of those tax credits for ethanol expired on Jan. 1, 2012. ( Federal Tax Credit for Ethanol Expires - Petroleum - Convenience Store News )

I was able to bring up the news reports but I wasn't able to bring up details of the actual legislation. It looks like only the tax credit on ethanol went away but it still looks like there is no fuel tax on ethanol. It looks like the gas tax is still diluted by the percentage of the blend?

[john2dameron]

Gas prices went haywire after the election. Oil companies must be trying to recoup campaign contributions they made. If you remember, we were told in November that gas prices were going to start dropping. Apparently someone was a former weather forecaster and got it wrong again.

[john2dameron]

[quote name=72caddy;

I do feel for those that are suffering and have hardships. Gas prices do directly affect a persons ability to provide other necessities. In isolated areas like mine' date=' if you don't have a car I don't see how you can get a job (hardly any public transport) let alone get groceries, etc.

I am not for bigger government, but those WPA projects after WWII sure did employ a lot of people and made our countries infrastructure stronger. We have done little to keep pace with a growing population.

Off my soap box an back to cool old cars....

The WPA projects were in the 1930's to combat the depression; World War II was in the 1940's. The war ended and the economy boomed. Every one had a job, a home and a new car. Now you're lucky if you can find a job that pays more than minimum wage, and forget about becoming a home owner or buying a new car.

[stock_steve]

Gas prices seem to have gone up about 20 cents a gallon in the last month around here (south-central CT). I don't know if it's ever been more painful to fill the tank.

[Dandy Dave]

Same thing in this area. The younger generation just moves on as most of the employment pays a low wage. Unless you are self employed and and have an ability in demand, your not going to live the "American Dream" here working for "The Man."

Oil prices are high because of one reason. Greed. Dandy Dave!

[Trulyvintage]

Think about how much gas cost back when you were 16 ...

Then think about how much you made an hour back then ...

Do you think a gallon of gas cost 50% of your hourly wage in your youth ?

As of today, the Federal minimum wage (if you are lucky to have a 40 hour a week job) is $7.35 an hour.

As of today, the national average of regular unleaded gas is $3.78 a gallon.

I travel all around this country.

I usually talk with working people.

The folks I talk with are struggling to pay for gas to get to work.

It does not make sense for our domestic economy

to have people pay over 50% of their hourly wage

for a gallon of unleaded gas ....

In my opinion it is not in the best interest of our country to export an energy resource

at the expense of the average working man and woman ....

Our domestic energy needs should be served FIRST and FOREMOST by our domestic energy resources.

I am SICK and TIRED of lining the pockets of a wealthy few at the expense of my fellow citizens ...

Seems we are approaching or have exceeded domestic crude oil capacity for storage of what we are getting out of the ground here ...

Also seems we are exporting more than we import as of 2011:

@ http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...r-in-2011.html

Why are we exporting # 2 diesel to foreign markets ???

Because the profit takers make more money .....

I am pretty fed up with rising # 2 diesel prices,

currently $4.14 a gallon on average nationwide:

@ Daily Fuel Gauge Report--national, state and local average prices for gasoline, diesel and E-85.

Jim

[Dave@Moon]

Also when Ike was there you could buy a recognizable entry level car for around $2000 or less. Today that entry level cookie cutter will be close to $ 20,000.--Bob

Ike was a General who knew how to get things done.

He also had the advantage of Federal taxes that took in 2-3% more of the gross domestic product than is currently collected, according to the Brookings Institute. ( Historical Source of Revenue as Share of GDP ) It makes it a lot easier to accomplish things when society backs you up like that.:cool:

If something has been lost in America, it is that.

[aussiecowboy]

Man I'd love to pay $3.78 per gallon. Here is Aus it is almost double that.

[Guest]

Man I'd love to pay $3.78 per gallon. Here is Aus it is almost double that.

Why is that? What is your situation?

[aussiecowboy]

No situation, gas is just really expensive in Australia, especially if you live in a rural area as I do.

[NTX5467]

The issue of "crumbling highway infrastructure" is a multi-faceted situation . . . somewhat orchestrated by sevaral groups of our social and poliltical society in the USA.

Ike got the Interstate Higyway System passed through Congress as a means to expeditiously "ship" heavy war-related items cross country. The fact that it also aided cross-country travel by massive amounts of citizens was a secondary benefit, I suspect. But it this higher-speed highway network which also made vehicle travel (generally) safer while higher speed limits were also allowed. It, in general, helped our society and economy grow as a nation, while certain areas "dried-up" as there were many smaller towns "bypassed" by "the new road". Economic growth in these areas moved to where the new market was, the Interstate Corridor. Plusses and minuses, here.

A great amount of these roads were built during times when we had higher federal taxes, supplemented by state gasoline taxes, to fund these grand infrastructure activities. In Texas, there were LOTS of road projects going on in the 1963-1975 era . . . many of which were greatly done and are still intact (as a testiment to the quality of workmanship and design of these roads!).

Then came the first fuel crisis in the middle 1970s. Suddenly, the "govrnmnt" is involved in not only vehicular safety, but also fuel economy and exhaust emissions legislation . . . "in the public's best interest". It was fuel economy and emissions issues which led to smaller cars in the later 1970s era, which were more fuel efficient with less pollutants coming out of their exhaust. And we can see where we're at now, after decades of this progression.

When gasoline went past $2.00/gallon, it became highly obvious that people were driving less than before. Many had new car loans, recent dwelling mortgages, and other expenses related to a growing family situation . . . or a fixed income situation (either salary or Social Security). Add in the alleged/perceived "addiction to foreign oil" issues (from speculators and such) and although oil and gasoline inventories are generally at verified "all time highs", the old "supply vs. demand" stuff we were taught in school has ceased to be artifically manipulated by financial types "somewhere else". In other words, the "market" which is driving fuel costs NOW is not what we see at the local filling station, but in some offices in "high places" where "paper" is traded, from mine and others' research.

So, with higher fuel costs, resulting in fewer gallons of road-use gasoline being purchased, to be used in a national vehicular "fleet" of progressively more fuel efficient vehicles, state gasoline tax revenues have significantly decreased through all of these various progressions. And don't forget about the mandated "oxygenates" which must be added to our gasolines, either, which can ultimately decrease gasoline base stock use by about 10%.

Population expands, so new roadways (or existing roadways expanded) are needed. Gasoline tax revenue is not enough to both build these new roads AND maintain the existing ones. In Texas, they added a "Road and Bridge Fund" item to vehicle registrations many years ago, but even that has not really supplied enough funding for rural and non-metro road and bridge repairs. Or might it be that our local legislators "reappropriated" those funds for other purposes to have a balanced state budget?

Many of the roads and bridges which now need attention were built in the 1930s-1940s, I suspect, so when the other new roads were being built in the 1960s, these older ones were still in good condition. But 70 years later, they can still be stout, but not looking like they might be. Plus the hugely-greater amount of traffic they generally now carry. And ONE failure can be national headline news! Much less the much newer projects were some design/material substitutions have resulted in massive structural failures in the past decade or so.

Toll roads are not always the answer, either! It seems that many existing roads in Texas, built with public monies, are being expanded with toll lanes. Or new roads are being built in a "public/private partnership" . . . I'd better stop there.

I guess the only REAL fix would be to put gasoline back at $1.95/gallon . . . OR LESS . . . so people will drive their fuel efficient/non-air polluting vehicles more to get gasoline tax revenues back UP to where they need to be to pay for road and bridge projects/maintenance! Less gallons used, less gas tax revenue . . . not unlike property tax related issues when the housing market "fell", as did market values (upon which property taxes are related to). This would also stimulate the economy with more discretionary spending, no doubt!

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[MCHinson]

NTX5467,

I have been viewing this thread with some trepidation. Some posts have had to be deleted. The discussion has been difficult to keep on "the straight and narrow". Understandably, people get emotional about this issue. It is difficult to keep political comments out of any discussion of gas prices.

I think you have managed to post an interesting thoughtful analysis which I enjoyed reading.

[Guest 37Packard]

Some posts have had to be deleted.

I wanted to let you know that you're a miserable excuse for a moderator. Those posts-one of which was mine-did not need to be deleted. Try to remember that this is the US of A and not China, Cuba or North Korea. Don't you have anything more important to do than read all the posts here looking for a way to be offended? Obviously not. You need to grow up and get a life. Now delete this right away before someone agrees with me....

[MCHinson]

37 Packard,

I would suggest you read the forum rules. First, I did not say that I was the moderator who had deleted posts from this particular discussion. Second, your last post is actually inappropriate, but I don't intend to delete it. It will be interesting to see what others think. I think you will be disappointed.

It is quite clear that you don't know me, and you don't understand the role of a moderator.

[Guest billybird]

I read the posts before they were deleted. IMHO the posts were not out of line. Just a couple of guys expressing different opinions. I would not want to be a moderator because I would probably let too much go through. Let me say that I respect and appreciate all the moderators and I understand the forum rules. The only problem with rules {anywhere,anything } is they can be subject to interpretation. It's a tough call either way.

[R W Burgess]

............... Just a couple of guys expressing different opinions. .......... The only problem with rules {anywhere,anything } is they can be subject to interpretation. It's a tough call either way.

Billy, we have many ladies, wives, and some children that use our forums and we expect the AACA Forums to be useful with a family atmosphere. Expressing differences of opinions is fine, but abusing the respect that any normal person would expect will not be tolerated. As far as rules interpretation, everyone knew what the AACA Web Site rules were when they registered as new members.

I expect 37Packard to apologize to Mr. Hinson.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Billy, we have many ladies, wives, and some children that use our forums and we expect the AACA Forums to be useful with a family atmosphere. Expressing differences of opinions is fine, but abusing the respect that any normal person would expect will not be tolerated. As far as rules interpretation, everyone knew what the AACA Web Site rules were when they registered as new members.

I expect 37Packard to apologize to Mr. Hinson.

Agreed!! Hope you are not holding your breath.

Ben