nick8086 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/new-pennsylvania-laws-starting-in-higher-gas-tax-increased-tolls/article_db41ded0-cc7e-11e6-8f48-6bc91207d340.html Pennsylvanians will be paying 76.7 cents per gallon in taxes — the highest in the nation. Edited January 11, 2017 by nick8086 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 And not getting much for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantz Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 And the big trucks who use our roads can just fill up before crossing the boarders and not bother contributing. Hooray! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Tax went up, turnpike fee went up, other auto fees on transfers went up, but did my income go up? Of course not! Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 34 minutes ago, Frantz said: And the big trucks who use our roads can just fill up before crossing the boarders and not bother contributing. Hooray! Truckers pay each state for the Miles they run in that state. The quarterly fuel tax return is set up that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 And gas in south Florida is usually about 10c/gal higher than Orlando. Fortunately I can usually make a round trip without needing any. Regular was running about $2.30/gal for 87 yesterday. According to gas taxes, gas in California has about 2c/gal more tax than Florida so gas is $2.32/gal for regular in lalaland right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlier Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, nick8086 said: http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/new-pennsylvania-laws-starting-in-higher-gas-tax-increased-tolls/article_db41ded0-cc7e-11e6-8f48-6bc91207d340.html Pennsylvanians will be paying 76.7 cents per gallon in taxes — the highest in the nation. Too bad a HUGE Chunk of gasoline taxes being collected in Pennsylvania are NOT being used to fix bridges and roads like they should be. State police funding gap handcuffs infrastructure "The fiscal year 2016-17 budget diverts about $802 million in Motor License money to state police". They could fix a LOT of roads & bridges with that kind of money. FYI, these funds have been diverted this way for DECADES. Edited January 11, 2017 by charlier (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldcarfudd Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 If you're rich enough to drive a Tesla (I'm not), you don't care! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 6 minutes ago, oldcarfudd said: If you're rich enough to drive a Tesla (I'm not), you don't care! And yet, when there are propositions to change from a gasoline tax to a mileage-based tax for highway funding (so that hybrids and electric cars pay their fair share), people STILL complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 19 minutes ago, joe_padavano said: people STILL complain. Now Joe, you know that no one complains on these forums!????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 The downside of better fuel economy is less gas tax for states. The really bad news for drivers is the fuel tax to fix roads winds up funding too many other projects that don't fix highways. The PA turnpike fees used to just be used for turnpike maintenance, now it's used as a cash cow to fund other road projects and who knows what else. A tax based on miles driven per year can't be too far off in the future. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass is Best Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, TerryB said: The downside of better fuel economy is less gas tax for states. The really bad news for drivers is the fuel tax to fix roads winds up funding too many other projects that don't fix highways. The PA turnpike fees used to just be used for turnpike maintenance, now it's used as a cash cow to fund other road projects and who knows what else. A tax based on miles driven per year can't be too far off in the future. Terry Wouldn't just raising the gas tax do the same thing as creating a mileage tax? Those who drive more would pay more. Edited January 11, 2017 by Brass is Best (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 When I was growing up the gas pumps had a sign that itemized the cost of fuel and each added tax. It is illegal to post a sign like that now and the station owner can be arrested. But when you come right down to it, isn't tax a political undertone, maybe overtone? Ignorance is so much more, um,.... blissful? Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 33 minutes ago, Brass is Best said: Wouldn't just raising the gas tax do the same thing as creating a mileage tax? Those who drive more would pay more. How does that collect money from electric cars? And good luck trying to pass a law that raises taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dictator27 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 WARNING: RANT!! Please stop complaining about "high gas prices". I wish I could pay what you are paying. I'm in Vancouver, British Columbia and as of today I'm paying $1.35/litre which converts to $5.10/US gallon for regular gas. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, dictator27 said: WARNING: RANT!! Please stop complaining about "high gas prices". I wish I could pay what you are paying. I'm in Vancouver, British Columbia and as of today I'm paying $1.35/litre which converts to $5.10/US gallon for regular gas. Terry No, you are not paying a high price for the gasoline. You are paying high TAXES that your elected officials have added to the price of that gasoline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dictator27 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) 47 minutes ago, joe_padavano said: No, you are not paying a high price for the gasoline. You are paying high TAXES that your elected officials have added to the price of that gasoline. Partly true, Joe. The motor fuel tax varies depending on where you live in the province. The metro Vancouver area is made up of 21 independent cities which have about 2/3rds of the provinces population. This area has the highest tax/litre at 32.17 cents or about $1.21/US gallon. Seventeen cents goes to our metro transit system, 6.75 cents to transit outside the metro area and 6.67 cents is a carbon tax. (I believe British Columbia was the first area ion North America to insistute a carbon tax.). Taking that out means I'm paying about $1.03/litre or $3.90/US gallon. Terry Edited January 11, 2017 by dictator27 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Your are getting it hard there ,Terry . WTK is your fuel same as in US with 86 octant regular and all the ethanol . Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass is Best Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 2 hours ago, joe_padavano said: How does that collect money from electric cars? And good luck trying to pass a law that raises taxes. I guess there would have to be a tax on every hour an electric car is charged. Build a billing system right into the charger. Any new electric car would be on the cutting edge of technology anyway. Sounds better than trying to figure out how to tax a 1906 Cadillac with no speedometer or odometer for every mile it drives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 What about those Amish? They use the roads and pay zero gas taxes. No registration or inspection fees on their buggies either. (Written tongue in cheek, I very much respect the Amish. We have several Amish suppliers.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 5 hours ago, Brass is Best said: Wouldn't just raising the gas tax do the same thing as creating a mileage tax? Those who drive more would pay more. Not if you are driving an electric car or a plug in hybrid car. The gas tax you would pay will still be little or nothing. A tax on the miles driven would affect all types of cars regardless of what powers it. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Brass is Best said: I guess there would have to be a tax on every hour an electric car is charged. Build a billing system right into the charger. Any new electric car would be on the cutting edge of technology anyway. Sounds better than trying to figure out how to tax a 1906 Cadillac with no speedometer or odometer for every mile it drives. Are you REALLY worried about this? The total miles driven by all antique cars is so small to be meaningless in this context. Americans have been averaging over 3 TRILLION miles a year. I have no idea how many total miles old cars contribute, but if antique cars contribute 3 MILLION miles of that total, that represents 0.001%. Even if that number is 3 BILLION miles, it's still only 1% of the total. The real number is likely well under 30 million miles (0.01%). It would cost the government more to collect that 0.01% than they would get. Note that right now, electric cars are near that 3 billion a year (1%) mark and their annual mileage is growing. Edited January 11, 2017 by joe_padavano (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dictator27 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 3 hours ago, ArticiferTom said: Your are getting it hard there ,Terry . WTK is your fuel same as in US with 86 octant regular and all the ethanol . Tom Octane levels here are 87/89/91. There is 10% ethanol in 87 and 89 octane and none in 91 octane, generally. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 4 hours ago, dictator27 said: Partly true, Joe. The motor fuel tax varies depending on where you live in the province. The metro Vancouver area is made up of 21 independent cities which have about 2/3rds of the provinces population. This area has the highest tax/litre at 32.17 cents or about $1.21/US gallon. Seventeen cents goes to our metro transit system, 6.75 cents to transit outside the metro area and 6.67 cents is a carbon tax. (I believe British Columbia was the first area ion North America to insistute a carbon tax.). Taking that out means I'm paying about $1.03/litre or $3.90/US gallon. Terry The oil costs the same per barrel (or less, if it comes from local sources), so the difference must be due to other taxes and fees or additional transportation costs, or oil company profits (yeah, imagine that...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, charlier said: Too bad a HUGE Chunk of gasoline taxes being collected in Pennsylvania are NOT being used to fix bridges and roads like they should be.... They could fix a LOT of roads & bridges with that kind of money. FYI, these funds have been diverted this way for DECADES. No wonder people tend to loathe politicians! As an engineer, I have some insight into roads and bridges. In the 1990's, I inspected dozens of smaller bridges in the county system. The news likes to sensationalize everything, and talks about the world's "crumbling" roads and bridges--and how "deficient" they are. However, many of the local bridges, undoubtedly in that count, are on incredibly rural and remote roads. Where I inspected Pennsylvania bridges, you could drive for several miles and not see another car coming the other direction; a bridge might see only 20 cars a day driving across it at 20 miles an hour. It might serve only 5 or 10 camps or farms. You could drive along in a 1920's car at 25 or 35 m.p.h. and not bother anyone. Yet many of those bridges are in a database as "deficient" or "substandard" because they aren't built to the modern standards for higher-traffic roads. In cases like that, it doesn't really matter that the bridge is narrower than the current PennDOT standard, or that it's not designed for 37-ton trucks, or that its guard rail is an antique lattice style that isn't up to current government specification. The bridge sits quietly and picturesquely in its remote rural setting. The excuse that the gas tax has to be raised again for our roads and bridges is, I think, a red herring. What did the politicians do with the last 5 gas-tax increases, which continue to generate money continuously? Edited January 11, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dictator27 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 1 hour ago, joe_padavano said: The oil costs the same per barrel (or less, if it comes from local sources), so the difference must be due to other taxes and fees or additional transportation costs, or oil company profits (yeah, imagine that...). The price of gasoline here has been an ongoing frustration for motorists for a long time. We pay the highest prices in Canada. No matter how much we complain, the explanation is always the same.The base price at the pump goes up every year on April 1st. Most of the rise is always attributed to rising transportation costs. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipdang Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 6 hours ago, Restorer32 said: What about those Amish? They use the roads and pay zero gas taxes. No registration or inspection fees on their buggies either. (Written tongue in cheek, I very much respect the Amish. We have several Amish suppliers.) I was born in Amish country (Holmes County, OH) and I think they should be taxed by the amount of road apples left behind. It was a great place to live (really)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick8086 Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 35 MPG. one for sale at BJ.. Just 15 mpg less than the electric car.. Edited January 12, 2017 by nick8086 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 If you really want to base on use, then the ton-mile is more appropriate. ps in the fifties were all car occupants height impaired ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 5 hours ago, padgett said: If you really want to base on use, then the ton-mile is more appropriate. ps in the fifties were all car occupants height impaired ? You are correct. There are two factors that effect highway deterioration - miles driven and weight of the vehicle. A motorcycle doesn't cause the same damage as my truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Deterioration is based on miles driven, weight of the vehicle and load. Also, width of tires affects deterioration. Travel thru Amish country and you will notice the road damage caused by narrow buggy wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) Couple years ago a friend doubled his budget for a new car and ended up with a Tesla that cost somewhere in the $75K range. I could not help but ask how he managed that with a minimum of household strife. He worked up a very elaborate financial projection on the cost of ownership based on XX miles, etc. - I cannot recall how many years he went out with, and convinced his wife that the Tesla would be cheaper in the long run than a $35 - 40K conventional sedan. I had a good laugh over that one - he did not get the humor. After seeing this thread, it makes me think he just might be right... Edited January 12, 2017 by Steve_Mack_CT spelling (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I like the Tesla story! No oil changes, spark plugs or coolant replacement, no gasoline or gas tax worries just figuring out how to pay for one is the big issue besides finding a charging station when on the road! Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Terry I think they are impressive. Other than cost and charging stations (becoming less of a concern) they are pretty cool - he has the "S" I believe, basically all you could get a couple years ago. It is a great looking car which is important to me even in a modern daily driver. They use some MB components - steering column & wheel, and I understand the center of gravity is very low so good handling in addition to being ridiculously quick. That said, the range between charges is still a concern but likely less so with the later models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Restorer32 said: Also, width of tires affects deterioration. Given normal automotive/truck tires, I really doubt this is a concern. There are VERY few vehicles on the road with narrow buggy tires, and those that are don't carry much load or drive many miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 44 minutes ago, TerryB said: I like the Tesla story! Sure. What's not to like about government subsidies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 1 hour ago, joe_padavano said: Sure. What's not to like about government subsidies... You mean on ? The electric car tax break? From what I hear that is dependent on number of cars sold. The more cars sold, the lower the tax break is how I believe it works. Here in SE PA we are not overrun with electric cars. Solar panels and the tax break they have been receiving must be popular as they are everywhere, including many farms and small businesses. All car makers seem to be embracing electric technology in some form. I would like to have one as our 2nd car as it would be best for our short hop errands that seem to be the main part of our driving these days. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 1 hour ago, TerryB said: You mean on ? The electric car tax break? From what I hear that is dependent on number of cars sold. The more cars sold, the lower the tax break is how I believe it works. Here in SE PA we are not overrun with electric cars. Solar panels and the tax break they have been receiving must be popular as they are everywhere, including many farms and small businesses. All car makers seem to be embracing electric technology in some form. I would like to have one as our 2nd car as it would be best for our short hop errands that seem to be the main part of our driving these days. Terry The tax break. The factory credits (OK, that's state tax credits, not federal). The free use of roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe in Canada Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I hope they spend some money on road repair on 81 north of the area they were repairing in 2015. I bent a trailer axle in a pot hole that was on the curb side white line heading north after leaving the Vintage Tour in Lancashire PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emjay Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I never understand why gas tax hikes get so much more reaction that any other tax while it's the only tax that should go up regularly. All other taxes are based on value or income so that government can spend that same dollar, a progressive tax. These actually should go down if anything since everyone else has to improve productivity. On the other hand a gas tax is based on usage and is not automatically adjusted for inflation or area growth. If everyone had the same design of vehicle, a gas tax perfectly reflects the "damage" a driver does to the road. More miles = more damage = more gas used. A heavier vehicle (of the same design) = more damage = more gas (due to being heavier) The true definition of a fair tax. Then come the exceptions and continued improvements of fuel efficiency and also electrics are back. all of these equal less gas tax paid but rod damage continues. Of course that would be easier to swallow, but then there is government efficiency, but we must assume that stays consistently low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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