Local car show, EV Cord.

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

I think I found it! The bodywork pictures lead one to believe it had a rough life prior to the restoration.

https://lavinerestorations.com/project/1937-cord-supercharged-model-812/

 

If you think the EV offends take a look at this one I saw 20 years ago. Possibly someone named "Dutch" had his fingers in there. A Hispano-Cordilia

 

Background car is a SAMCO.

I believe there are 1950s era period pictues of this.   Done when it was a 15 year old  car I would leave it alone, along with the period caddy/olds conversions.  

 

The subject car is a different deal and just a shame.   However, if it is actually fiberglass then I'll change my mind and say well done.

[1957Birdman]

These cars are not my cup of tea, and I have one observation related to the cars that are modified by independent parties. I would not want to park next to one at a show. If something were to go wrong and a fire started, the car would be toast and the fire extinguishers we carry in our cars would be useless in a lithium-ion fire. Not a pretty picture.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

[Matt Harwood]

The press and general ignorance regarding electric cars (never mind the skewed prejudice) has GROSSLY magnified how often they catch fire. Yes, they burn longer but they actually catch fire far less often. According to the National Transportation Safety Board, there are about 25 fires for every 100,000 EVs sold, compared to 1,530 fires for every 100,000 gas-powered vehicles sold. Parking next to an electric car is actually less dangerous than parking next to an internal combustion vehicle by several orders of magnitude. Don't buy into the hype, it's mostly nonsense. Much as this Cord pains me, it's not something to be afraid of.

[BobinVirginia]

Does anyone else hear the sound of the Jetsons’s car from the cartoon whenever you think of an EV? 

Edited September 15 by BobinVirginia (see edit history)

[Angelfish]

And then when the lithium mines are played out we will start seeing LS swapped Teslas.

[BobinVirginia]

I’m just wondering when someone will put a 20’s,30’s or 40’s car chassis and driveline under an S10 body! lol 

[CarNucopia]

4 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

The press and general ignorance regarding electric cars (never mind the skewed prejudice) has GROSSLY magnified how often they catch fire. Yes, they burn longer but they actually catch fire far less often. According to the National Transportation Safety Board, there are about 25 fires for every 100,000 EVs sold, compared to 1,530 fires for every 100,000 gas-powered vehicles sold. Parking next to an electric car is actually less dangerous than parking next to an internal combustion vehicle by several orders of magnitude. Don't buy into the hype, it's mostly nonsense. Much as this Cord pains me, it's not something to be afraid of.

This is a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison. The average age of a car on the road is 12+ years while the average EV is 3.5.

Car fires are far more common in older cars due to poor maintenance. The reality is, it will be a while before there is enough data to isolate variables and make a like-for-like assessment.

Edited September 16 by CarNucopia (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

On 9/14/2024 at 8:30 AM, TAKerry said:

I love the sound of a big v8, but me not being a full fledged mechanic, have nothing against one of these types of conversions. IF one could be done tastefully and efficiently I would not mind it. 

some EVs have a choice of exhaust sound ,best of both worlds

[Frank DuVal]

So, for a little over a grand you too can have exhaust sounds (as long as you have  CAN bus in your antique! HA!) 🤣🤣

 

https://thor-tuning.com/us/thor/

 

 

[1957Birdman]

Matt, my point about fires was not about cars developed and engineered by a major manufacturer that had a comprehensive testing program before it ever was sold as a production car. I would be concerned about ones that are put together by someone who develops one without the level of concern for safety that the major manufactures have.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

[JACK M]

Seems that there have been a number of electric bikes catching fire lately.

The one on the news this morning the owner said he hadn't used it for months and was not on a charger.

I might have to keep my electric bikes in a separate shed.

[Dr B]

On 9/14/2024 at 9:13 AM, Xander Wildeisen said:

You will always have original cars, and modified cars.

This 

 

 

On 9/14/2024 at 11:13 AM, 1912Staver said:

Partially true, but a restored Cord Phaeton or Sportsman is going to be a rather valuable car by almost any vintage car guy's yardstick even if it was at one time a picked over example.

 The remainder { not involved in the ev conversion }  of this example looks to have had serious money spent on it. And I expect the ev conversion would have cost a tidy sum as well. So probably at least as much spent as a correct Cord restoration. To achive what ? We all know if you throw enough money at a project amazing things can be done. So why mess around with a true icon of American vintage / classic cars ? Jay Leno probably said it best in regards to his gas turbine powered car if I remember correctly , something along the lines of membership in the more money than brains club.

It is interesting that this is the same argument I heard about resto-mods a decade ago (maybe longer).  Personally, I do not like resto-mods and would never want one (at least I say that today).  What has shocked me is that resto-mods now frequently bring MORE money than the original restored cars! Time marches on, progress moves forward, the times they are a changing, and rust never sleeps, blah, blah, blah...

 

Robert

[Dr B]

2 hours ago, JACK M said:

Seems that there have been a number of electric bikes catching fire lately.

The one on the news this morning the owner said he hadn't used it for months and was not on a charger.

I might have to keep my electric bikes in a separate shed.

The majority of these electric bike fires is because someone has mucked with the battery, charger or both.  Most common cause is the use of the wrong charger that damages the battery.  Not all, but many/most.

 

Robert

[TerryB]

Tesla Model S premiered in 2012 so their production is longer than most others on the road.  This t shirt picture is from August 2022 when the Fremont factory celebrated its 2 millionth car produced there.  New to the market EV skew the average age EV number when in reality the vehicles have been in production much longer.  My son got me the t shirt.  He has been a Tesla mechanical design engineer since 2016.

 

[1912Staver]

Nothing against Tesla's , it's strictly the tax payer funded subsidy's / rebates that I have a problem with. Tesla's  , and virtually any EV carries a premium price tag. As long as it is your money , your choice I have no problem. But when every day taxpayers are footing part of the bill for a premium vehicle that's where I draw the line. Like the car , fine. But only if 100 % of the price tag comes out of your pocket. 

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 10:59 PM by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

The oil industry receives significantly more in subsidy money than the electric car industry. In fact, the subsidies given to the oil and gas industry amount to approximately 7.1% of GDP ($7 trillion). Electric vehicles are $7500/car and falling (these are 2022 numbers).

 

Get angry at the right people, eh?

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 12:41 AM by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[8E45E]

On 9/15/2024 at 6:45 PM, Angelfish said:

And then when the lithium mines are played out we will start seeing LS swapped Teslas.

The first one? Rich Benoit Of Rich Rebuilds Dropped A Corvette Engine In His Tesla Model S (hotcars.com)

 

Craig

[Xander Wildeisen]

On 9/15/2024 at 4:15 PM, BobinVirginia said:

Does anyone else hear the sound of the Jetsons’s car from the cartoon whenever you think of an EV? 

 

[kar3516]

20 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

The oil industry receives significantly more in subsidy money than the electric car industry. In fact, the subsidies given to the oil and gas industry amount to approximately 7.1% of GDP ($7 trillion). Electric vehicles are $7500/car and falling (these are 2022 numbers).

 

Get angry at the right people, eh?

 

 

Just to be clear, that $7 trillion “subsidy” number isn’t really actual tax breaks given to privately owned oil and gas producers but rather their estimated negative impact of living in a world powered by fossil fuels.  EESI.org, a staunch environmental supporter of renewable energy and opponent of burning harmful climate pollutants, states the following regarding DOMESTIC oil and gas on its website:

 

“In 2022, fossil fuel subsidies in the United States totaled (https://www.imf.org/-/media/Files/Publications/WP/2023/English/wpiea2023169-print-pdf.ashx) $757 billion, according to the International Monetary Fund. This includes $3 billion in explicit subsidies and $754 billion in implicit subsidies, which are costs like negative health impacts and environmental degradat
ion that are borne by society at large rather than producers (i.e., 
negative externalities (https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-climate-environmental-and-health-impacts-of-fossil-fuels-2021)
).”
 

And further regarding current federal  efforts to end those subsidies according to EESI.org:

 

“The Biden-Harris Administration’s FY 2024 budget request (https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/) would eliminate 13 fossil fuel tax preferences and credits (https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/131/General-Explanations-FY2024.pdf), such as the tax credit for oil and natural gas extracted from marginal wells and the treatment of coal royalties as long-term capital gains that benefit from lower tax rates. Over 10 years, these proposed changes would reduce the federal deficit by almost (https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/budget_fy2024.pdf) $31 billion. In addition, the budget pro
poses modifications to the taxation rules for the foreign income of U.S. oil and gas companies, which would save another $66 billion, for a total savings of $96.9 billion (see graphic above).”

 

All directly from this very informative article:

https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-proposals-to-reduce-fossil-fuel-subsidies-january-2024
 

Kent

 

 

 

 

 

[CarNucopia]

30 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

The oil industry receives significantly more in subsidy money than the electric car industry. In fact, the subsidies given to the oil and gas industry amount to approximately 7.1% of GDP ($7 trillion). Electric vehicles are $7500/car and falling (these are 2022 numbers).

 

Get angry at the right people, eh?

 

 

Matt, I'm starting to think you're in the pocket of Big EV. 😛

 

According to the US Senate:

Quote

In the United States, by some estimates taxpayers pay about $20 billion dollars every year to the fossil fuel industry.  What do we get for that?  Economists generally agree: not much.  To quote conservative economist Gib Metcalf: these subsidies offer “little if any benefit in the form of oil patch jobs, lower prices at the pump, or increased energy security for the country.”  The cash subsidy is both big and wrong. 

So the US is about .25% of total subsidies. Still to much, but hardly excessive compared to EVs..

 

And if you want to dig deeper and look to the International Energy Agency, you'll find out that the largest "subsidies" are countries with a state run oil industry. The US isn't even in the top 25.

 

Value of fossil-fuel subsidies by fuel in the top 25 countries, 2022

 

[kar3516]

So the government is chasing $100 billion over 10 years when one AI tech company has a market value of $3 trillion.  

[TAKerry]

So, I wonder if that Cord was a basket case before they put that electric motor in?

[alsancle]

11 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

 

 

Just another data point on why Elon Musk is the da Vinci of our time.   He designed an electric car that doesn't make you look like an idiot for sitting in it.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

7 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

Just another data point on why Elon Musk is the da Vinci of our time.   He designed an electric car that doesn't make you look like an idiot for sitting in it.

Yeah, especially the big Tesla car  but the truck is no F-150...

[alsancle]

2 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Yeah, especially the big Tesla car  but the truck is no F-150...

I'm riding in an F150 Lightening tomorrow.  I will report back.  My buddy is a Tesla guy but they are giving away the electric F150 and he didn't need the range of a Tesla.  Plus as discussed here the Cybertruck styling is not for everybody.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

That will be interesting.  In the mid 80s I would have laughed off the suggestion of a v6 powered supercab 4x4 F150 as underpowered but love mine so ypu never know when technology will meet demands. Def interested in that report.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

1 hour ago, TAKerry said:

So, I wonder if that Cord was a basket case before they put that electric motor in?

Good question Kerry.  If it's just a power train swap without massive surgery it could be put back I bet.

[TAKerry]

18 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Good question Kerry.  If it's just a power train swap without massive surgery it could be put back I bet.

Convo was going off the rails, figured it was time to reel things back in a little, LOL.

 

AJ, my moms neighbor bought an E150 last spring. His was the loaded model, I think he said it was over $125k!!! But it sure was a nice truck. He had only just bought it but loved the thing. I havent talked to him since so I dont know how he feels a year later. I could most likely use one as my daily work truck, albeit a little less extravagant. I just filled the gas in my f150 yesterday to the tune of $90 and that is with cheap gas. I typically will fill the truck twice a week, x's 4 weeks is probably close to a monthly payment on one of these!

 

[Gtjoey]

There’s a REASON why they are giving away the E -F 150…

When you receive a letter from FORD saying Don’t park the car in your garage they might over heat and start a fire is just one of the many issues.

2. If your outside temp goes from 60 to 40, your range will drop from 150 to 50!

3. You need a dedicated 300 amp line from the street as you can heat your fuse box panel of the house.

4 insurance carriers are dropping homeowners policies on review if you own one due to the fire risk.

My buddy tried towing and his range went from 220 to 30!!!!  Miles towing a 2,800 pound car on an open trailer.

Shall we continue?

Its a novelty and a scam

.Lastly after WE gave Ford 13 Billion! Over the last 3 years the end result is….

15,000 workers fired

The new facility converted to F250 pick up trucks in gas!

All the lines being dropped!

What a huge waste…

Gtjoey1314

[Larry Schramm]

10 hours ago, TAKerry said:

I just filled the gas in my f150 yesterday to the tune of $90 and that is with cheap gas. I typically will fill the truck twice a week, x's 4 weeks is probably close to a monthly payment on one of these!

 

I just filled my 3/4 ton diesel.  $120.00.  Not bragging or complaining, just a reference point with a difference in towing capability.

Edited Wednesday at 12:34 AM by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Gtjoey]

Larry remember you paid 80 dollars for the fill up 4 years ago…..

There seems to be a tie in between the last 4 years, going electric and trying to rid oil….

Any ideas what it could be?

We need gas and oil , unless we collapse or pay 400 dollars for 6 apples.

Toyota son now CEO said it best

Im not going to bankrupt the company going electric only…..He is my exact age.

A very smart guy!

Ford /Gm and Dodge could only dream making Toyotas profits and sales

gtjoey 

[CarNucopia]

32 minutes ago, Gtjoey said:

 

Toyota son now CEO said it best

Im not going to bankrupt the company going electric only…..He is my exact age.

A very smart guy!

 

Uh….about that…

 

Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda Steps Aside, Which May Accelerate the Company's EV Rollout

 

Quote

Under Toyoda, the automaker has remained committed to hybrids and slow to adopt EVs, but that may change under new, younger leadership.

 

[Gtjoey]

That’s the old man….in 2023.

There’s many news about limiting ev at Toyota

They don’t drink to kool aid as in America with a gun to their head

gtjoey13-4

[Frank DuVal]

2 hours ago, Gtjoey said:

3. You need a dedicated 300 amp line from the street as you can heat your fuse box panel of the house.

Where do people get these ideas????????????????????????????????????????????????????❓❓

 

The Ford uses the standard NEMA14-50 plug, the same as your electric stove. 50 Amp 240 Volt circuit.👍 Typical of EVs.

 

Why the need to repeat incorrect information to prove your point? Too much of this going around these days. No sensible person would ever believe it needs 300 amps to charge at home.🤣

 

And as far as it starting a fire in your house garage, Ford was way ahead of this years ago!🤣

 

https://www.autosafety.org/ford-cruise-control-deactivation-switch-recalls-and-history/

 

History, very important! Isn't that why we are here, because of our love of vehicles and history?❓

[Gtjoey]

Frank do you own one?

maybe I did?

maybe my best friend had one?

maybe I’m right?

if you use the regular outlet you will get a mile per hour charge.

you need the booster which cost 4,000 dollars when this truck came out, not sure if they include it now with the 110,000 price tag.

In New York or New Jersey you file for a seperate line dedicated for that box .

Since my family has only been in the insurance game for 60 years , they are dropping Homeowners with electric cars or raising them 200 percent and or demand the isolated line because of the load and or parked  INSIDE a garage.

Then you need the town to issue the line but like California in New York with up coming regulations to all electric they DONT have enough power to distribute.

The whole electric grid is a joke, pertaining to electric cars , it’s a novelty.

I liked and tested the I Pace jag …..

They are burning down and recalling them with a letter of NO conclusion of battery heat issues

.Fisker

Jaguar

 Volvo

Ford

Gm

and others are either out of business or cancelling 99 percent of their ev only.

Hybrid I like!

But after the U.S. spent 6 Billion in the last 24 months and was supposed to have 550 charging stations

Only 3 are up and running.

The F150 E is a turd ….

It’s the new Edsel!

And I like and Edsel TODAY!

love

Gtjoey

Sorry I just read your ford recall letter that’s a 1996 cruise control issue?

Nothing to do with ev , but your right Fords warranty issue are why their stock in 10 dollars

Edited Wednesday at 09:13 AM by Gtjoey (see edit history)

[Gtjoey]

Oh well

Just some of the other issues as well

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:10 AM by Gtjoey (see edit history)

[Gtjoey]

Frank to clarify the system we used is 

Level 3 , that’s why the cost and direct line.

At that charge rate you can full charge in a half hour or so….

Again I’m in New York

Gtjoey

[Frank DuVal]

Yes, I know several electricians around here that install level 2 circuits for homeowners. Fed with 60 amp breaker and limited to 48 amps by the charger, hardwired charger, not plug into the 50 amp receptacle. If that receptacle is used, then limit the draw (in the controls) to 40 amps and all will be well (circuit/receptacle/plug wise). Drawing 50 amps through a 50 amp NEMA rated receptacle for hours is not wise, there will be heating. Note, talking about charger being hardwired, the charger does have a plug/cord to connect to the EV. 😉

 

We might agree on one thing. If one needs a level 3 charger at home, then the EV was not the best choice. 1 hour or less for full charge is not the typical EV need on daily trips. 

 

Level 3 is only recommended for 480 volt services in commercial situations, like the fuel station or commercial garage. Level 3 on 240 single phase is a questionable application. One of those well, it can be done, but is it wise?🤔

 

BTW, where is there only 3 charging stations built? Seems like every Sheetz and Wawa around here have at least 6 chargers.

 

I see Teslas everywhere and Rivans also, plus all the other normal makes. But, I have not noticed an electric F-150, maybe because it looks just like the other 50 Ford pickups I see every mile? I say the electric F-150 is for the typical person who wants a 4 door full frame sedan with a wet trunk, like 90% of the other pick ups here. What? put something in the bed or tow something? And scratch it?????🤣🤣

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 10:15 PM by Frank DuVal (see edit history)

[John348]

10 hours ago, Gtjoey said:

Frank to clarify the system we used is 

Level 3 , that’s why the cost and direct line.

At that charge rate you can full charge in a half hour or so….

Again I’m in New York

Gtjoey

Joey,

Sorry to hear about the misfortunes of your Ford Truck. The idea made sense for government fleet use and light service work {post office, park service} It seemed that their engineering was not on top of it. We have seen this before over the years, they cut corners and deliver a sub par product and a poor first impression There is a difference between a tow vehicle and a vehicle that can tow, I myself, would have never tried towing anything of substance with it. I see what it does to my fuel mileage to my truck, I could just imagine the strain on the electric system that is also required for braking as well I think their idea was a small boat from the campsite to the lake. maybe a few miles at best.

 

The level 3 chargers that I am familiar with, require a 277/480 Volt 3 phase service, utilities seldom make that available in residential neighborhoods, something is not making sense to me. From what I remember the level 3 chargers are for commercial use. I am also in the NYC area as well and worked 40 years as an electrician in NYC, although I seldom did any residential work.

There are a lot of predatory contractors who got involved in the direct install subbing for the companies overseeing the installation for the manufacturers. Look over your invoice again, something doesn't sound right.

 

My son just leased a Cadillac Lyriq, very nice vehicle, fast, and really has all of the Cadillac appointments that seemed to have been missing on the other models for the past two decades. There is a $1500 credit that can be applied to either public charging or towards the installation of a home charger. However, we just found out that has to be through one of their approved contractors, not just the licensed contractor of his choice. That $1500 credit only applies to vehicles that are 75% made in the US, what a novel idea that is!

 

You also mentioned 

21 hours ago, Gtjoey said:

.Lastly after WE gave Ford 13 Billion! Over the last 3 years the end result is….

15,000 workers fired

The new facility converted to F250 pick up trucks in gas!

 

Maybe I am misunderstanding something, but I believe that money you are mentioning was a loan from the Department of Energy for $9.2 billion. rather than $13 billion dollar gift to build new facilities, similar to what was done during WWII with Willow Run, when the money was loaned by the government to build the plants. Maybe this is something that needed to be done for the past 60 years and might have prevented the manufacturing exodus. I am sure with amount of contracts that Ford has with the government. the money will be made good

Manufacturing jobs and skilled tradesman don't get fired they get laid off, there is a big difference, you would have to have been there to know what I am talking about, just by the way you referred to it I am not sure you were there

[alsancle]

I spent the day with a buddy of mine and we drove my Stearns, two Packards and a Jaguar.  We also took his F150 Lightening out for a ride too.   He had the 2.5" lift installed in the front which makes it look more like a standard 4x4 truck.  It is the lowest trim level "pro" with a 240 mile range. 

 

What I liked:

 

1.  He says the range is accurate assuming you are not driving like an idiot.

2.  He only paid 56K (2024 model this year) and that was without the 7500 Fed & 7500 State credits that he doesn't qualify for.

3.  You can charge it at a Tesla Supercharger station.

4.  It didn't look stupid to me.  Was basically an F150 with electric drive.

5.  The trunk in front is a nice feature.

 

What I didn't like:

 

1.  All the goofy lightening badging.  I'm don't want to virtue signal so I don't need all that crap on my truck.

2.  You can charge it 3 miles per hour on a 110 circuit.  So you need 220 in the garage.

3.  Special head and taillights - see #1.

4. You can't tow with it like a gas fired truck and definitely not like a diesel truck.

 

If they got rid of the stupid badging and prove the truck is reliable I'm not against getting a 320 mile range version.   You have to have a gas vehicle for long trips (yes I realize you can use an electric but it is no as convenient).