What is Wholesale Cost for Dealers of Collector Cars?

[Steve_Mack_CT]

@Matt Harwood. How key are referrals in your business? I would think that is another area that separates the good from the others.

 

 

[1912Staver]

My wife wanted to buy a new Hyundai Accent just like the one had provided sterling service for me. Plain jane with a manual, and they were on sale at a very reasonable factory incentive price. First dealer said he didn't have one ,couldn't get one without a huge amount of trouble because no body bought the manuals anymore. He could probably get one in for her to take a test drive  with a $1000.00 non refundable deposit. But strongly tried to steer us to one of the heavily loaded automatics he had in stock.  NEXT !

  Next dealer { not far away at all }  also said he didn't have any , but only because of huge demand for the basic equipment, standard trans ones. He figured he could get one , but not in time to qualify for the factory special pricing offer .

Funny enough both dealers had significant numbers of auto, heavily loaded examples at like double what the no frills ones were advertised for. We are still a one Accent family. Cash sitting there for the taking but no suitable vehicle available. 

 This was 5 years ago so before all the covid stuff. So there really should have no trouble supplying a very popular , basic commuter. Wife is work from home now . Bought a Mustang convertible and has no need for a basic commuter anymore.

 

My Accent was the first and quite possibly the last vehicle I have bought from a dealer. { at the time I had been driving for over 45 years and had bought close to 100 cars and trucks, but first time at a dealer } At that time there was also a bunch of pressure to either upgrade to something much more expensive that I wanted no part of or at least buy a bunch of add on's like an extended warranty , tire warranty, anti theft device and the like. No, No, No, I just need cheap transport, none of the add on crap. I had to walk away from the first salesman and come back a couple of days later to find someone who didn't think he knew more about what I needed than I did. Great little car, but the dealer thing sucks.

Edited May 20 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

2 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

My wife wanted to buy a new Hyundai Accent just like the one had provided sterling service for me. Plain jane with a manual, and they were on sale at a very reasonable factory incentive price. First dealer said he didn't have one ,couldn't get one without a huge amount of trouble because no body bought the manuals anymore. He could probably get one in for her to take a test drive  with a $1000.00 non refundable deposit. But strongly tried to steer us to one of the heavily loaded automatics he had in stock.  NEXT !

  Next dealer { not far away at all }  also said he didn't have any , but only because of huge demand for the basic equipment, standard trans ones. He figured he could get one , but not in time to qualify for the factory special pricing offer .

Funny enough both dealers had significant numbers of auto, heavily loaded examples at like double what the no frills ones were advertised for. We are still a one Accent family. Cash sitting there for the taking but no suitable vehicle available. 

 This was 5 years ago so before all the covid stuff. So there really should have no trouble supplying a very popular , basic commuter. Wife is work from home now . Bought a Mustang convertible and has no need for a basic commuter anymore.

 

My Accent was the first and quite possibly the last vehicle I have bought from a dealer. { at the time I had been driving for over 45 years and had bought close to 100 cars and trucks, but first time at a dealer } At that time there was also a bunch of pressure to either upgrade to something much more expensive that I wanted no part of or at least buy a bunch of add on's like an extended warranty , tire warranty, anti theft device and the like. No, No, No, I just need cheap transport, none of the add on crap. I had to walk away from the first salesman and come back a couple of days later to find someone who didn't think he knew more about what I needed than I did. Great little car, but the dealer thing sucks.

 

How is selling what's in-demand a demerit on the dealer's part? Just because you want something that nobody else does, doesn't mean the dealer is dishonest or shady for not being able to get it for you. It isn't some unscrupulous trick that they don't stock the bare-bones cars, they stock what sells and what makes a profit. A whole bunch of extra work to get a special-order stripper on which they'll make zero profit and waste an allocation slot? Can you really blame them for one, being uninterested in dealing with you, and two, trying to upsell you on something they do have in stock and will make money on? I'm not even sure you can still buy a car with crank windows of any kind at any price. If you were smart, you would have worked your low-content demands into a deep discount on one of the loaded up cars that they were eager to sell under the sales promotion that would have probably gotten you a lot more car for just a little more money.

 

It's like going to the computer store and demanding that they provide you with a Windows 95 computer and getting all huffy when all they can't get it. It's not their responsibility to keep a bunch of ancient Windows 95 boxes laying around on the off chance that some luddite shows up.

 

It's not a trick. It's supply and demand in action. 

[John Bloom]

don’t even think about not popping for the tru-coat. 

 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

12 minutes ago, John Bloom said:

don’t even think about not popping for the tru-coat. 

 

My first real job was selling a product called "Thermo Gaurd" to the 500 or so new car dealers in Southern New England in the mid 80s.   Yeah it was basically like that...

[Trulyvintage]

“ Wholesale “ and “ Dealer “ are

a throwback to another era when

there were actually profit margins

for goods and services that 

“ Salesmen “ could access to 

make a solid middle class living.

 

” Salesmen “ had integrity - honesty 

repeat customers - reputation …

 

A once respected profession.

 

My Dad was a salesman on commission 

for Sunny Furniture Company in

North Sunnyslope, AZ

(they sold swamp coolers too)).

 

Edward managed to provide a

comfort upper lower/lower middle

class lifestyle for his growing 

family.

 

 

Jim

 

[kgreen]

When stuck in a south Georgia town with a bad transmission, I saw a car lot with bunches of special interest cars.  I stopped in to look, making sure the dealer knew that was intention so I didn't waste his time.  This was about 20 years ago but when I saw the 1965 Ford Falcon ranchero (?) for $65,000, I had to ask.  I wasn't his buyer, he plainly stated.  Virtually all of my clientele is overseas, northern Europe, the middle east, etc.  The American dollar was so cheap compared to the native currency in those countries that these cars were (1) highly desirable americano and (2) cheap by their standards.  That's globalization in a nutshell. He had three warehouse around the country with buyers all over the country looking at and buying cars.  He had access to people that specialized in certain models so they could phone and talk details; what to look for and the like.  He would then containerize the cars and ship them to their new overseas owners.  

 

We should be thankful that Matt sells domestically so we can usually see those cars again.

[1912Staver]

14 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

How is selling what's in-demand a demerit on the dealer's part? Just because you want something that nobody else does, doesn't mean the dealer is dishonest or shady for not being able to get it for you. It isn't some unscrupulous trick that they don't stock the bare-bones cars, they stock what sells and what makes a profit. A whole bunch of extra work to get a special-order stripper on which they'll make zero profit and waste an allocation slot? Can you really blame them for one, being uninterested in dealing with you, and two, trying to upsell you on something they do have in stock and will make money on? I'm not even sure you can still buy a car with crank windows of any kind at any price. If you were smart, you would have worked your low-content demands into a deep discount on one of the loaded up cars that they were eager to sell under the sales promotion that would have probably gotten you a lot more car for just a little more money.

 

It's like going to the computer store and demanding that they provide you with a Windows 95 computer and getting all huffy when all they can't get it. It's not their responsibility to keep a bunch of ancient Windows 95 boxes laying around on the off chance that some luddite shows up.

 

It's not a trick. It's supply and demand in action. 

 

 

I understand what you are saying Matt. But why then advertise the basic version at a great price at all ?  Clearly just a come on for a bait and switch at the one dealer and something neither my wife or I were willing to fall for. Besides none of the loaded cars were 5 or 6 speed manual, deal breaker right there regardless of the deal we might have been able to negotiate. The loaded cars they were trying to steer us toward were DOUBLE the price  the one we came to buy was. So what if we hard bargained and got say 10 % off, and still a auto ? Not happening. 

 Also the second dealer said they were very popular , not at all a dog that nobody wanted. Just that he should have ordered more for the price promo.

Not everyone wants a loaded boat of a ride. Both the wife and I grew up with MGA's,  MGB's, TR6's TVR's with three Bug Eye Sprites and two Lotus Europa's for good measure over the years as summer cars , Toyota Corolla SR5's, Dodge Colt GT's  etc. as winter cars . As we got older we progressed to 20 years of Volvo 240's . And virtually always manual shift, The wife had a auto 240 wagon , but not out of choice. A truly mint , one owner car with very low milage out of an estate for a knock your socks off price. She just couldn't turn it down over the lack of a 5 speed. We still have it and eventually I will probably 5 speed swap it. We both find most  of the " popular " optioned loaded modern cars to be the last thing we want. A " lot more car " is actually a lot less car to either of us. If we had a boat load of cash we would have his and hers Morgan's. Not dressed up sedans.

 

Also note, it's not like we just showed up at the dealer out of the blue and expected to find a row of base model cars to choose from . But rather during a special pricing promotion where the base model was advertised equally with the two higher specification models. All three versions were detailed in the advertising copy in a similar fashion. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 21 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[kar3516]

4 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

It's not a trick. It's supply and demand in action. 

It’s absolutely obvious.  The only organization that doesn’t understand supply vs demand is based in Washington D.C.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Odd how many folks trust a real estate agent but not a car dealer...

[TerryB]

The thing I value when buying non necessary toys for myself is the interest and passion the dealership has for these items and their interactions with the purchaser after the sale.  Over the years I spent a big chunk of my disposable income on motorcycles.  The first purchases were for competition units and later a combination of light competition and adventure travel motorcycles.  In those purchases it was evident what dealers shared your passion for the sport and would go out of their way to keep you up and running in the competition side as well as your Sunday relaxation travel.  I had a select group that I knew and trusted which in 99% of my spending was with them.  I supported them because they supported me and the motorcycle community.  They sponsored events, carried the gear you requested and worked to give service above and beyond what was expected.  Price for me was not paramount as I knew they need to make a profit to stay in business.  I am still friends with many of them despite being out of the hobby for more than 12 years.

 

In the antique car hobby it’s clear there are dealers like this who not only provide the cars and services we desire but get involved in promoting and keeping the hobby alive.  They come on here and give advice to people having issues and recommend products they have personally used.  All this and still having to deal with people who think they are somehow not deserving of making some money to stay in business.  All this talk of “how much markup” is really unfair to our loyal hobby supporters.  If you go to their websites you’ll see some really great autos and you know they’ve taken the time and effort  to sort them out before you drive away.  No personal sales will go that far unless they too want to share the passion with you.  Support works both ways my friends, if you choose to keep a hobby going you need to do your part too.  

[TAKerry]

Well said Terry, I get a kick out of all of the people that think everyone is out to get them and but will think nothing of spending $8 for a cup of coffee every morning.

 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Sort of related to Terry's comments.

 

Getting back to some projects on our Model A roadster and I noticed prices are up with the usual suppliers.  

 

Why is a debate for others if they are inclined, after thinking on it with even suppliers for a  very popular car like a Model A shrinking, I am glad I can get certain things like well made seat springs, etc. at all.  Supporting reputable firms in the hobby vs. Complaining about price etc. is really beneficial to all of us.

[Matt Harwood]

Just got a nasty phone call and a shiatty review online from a guy who bought a Riviera about six weeks ago. Starter failed and he got a flat tire. Somehow both were my fault for failing to predict those things and doing something to keep them from happening. He is demanding $1300 for the repairs and a new tire. He's already written the nasty review, so he'll get nothing, but had he restrained himself in his fit of anger I probably would have helped him out.

 

But go ahead and tell me again how dealers are the amoral, unscrupulous, money-hungry scumbags in these transactions.

[West Peterson]

On 5/18/2024 at 7:54 PM, Matt Harwood said:

I have a car advertised at $29,900 and a guy just today offered me $17,000 for it because "I'd have to ship it and pay taxes."

 

 

 

Ooooo... I hate that line. Maybe a good response is, "Well, then look for something closer to your zip code and quit wasting my time."

[60FlatTop]

32 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

But go ahead and tell me again how dealers are the amoral, unscrupulous, money-hungry scumbags in these transactions.

The first thought that comes to my mind is the guy who asks if he can have a receipt for a lower amount.

[Matt Harwood]

5 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

The first thought that comes to my mind is the guy who asks if he can have a receipt for a lower amount.

 

Happens daily. I remind them of how the government ultimately caught Al Capone: not for all the murders, but for tax evasion. I'm not interested in becoming your accomplice.

[West Peterson]

38 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

The first thought that comes to my mind is the guy who asks if he can have a receipt for a lower amount.

Which doesn't make any sense, really. When he finally decides to sell "at retail," he'll be paying the piper anyway. 

[69merc]

1 hour ago, West Peterson said:

 

Ooooo... I hate that line. Maybe a good response is, "Well, then look for something closer to your zip code and quit wasting my time."

That's a line I've even gotten as a private would be seller. How is the location of my car supposed to be my problem? So I like your reply!

[60FlatTop]

I can make a 100% guaranty that when a seller or buyer has stated "don't waste my time" that I never have.

 

And never will.

[Larry Schramm]

3 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Just got a nasty phone call and a shiatty review online from a guy who bought a Riviera about six weeks ago. Starter failed and he got a flat tire. Somehow both were my fault for failing to predict those things and doing something to keep them from happening. He is demanding $1300 for the repairs and a new tire. He's already written the nasty review, so he'll get nothing, but had he restrained himself in his fit of anger I probably would have helped him out.

 

But go ahead and tell me again how dealers are the amoral, unscrupulous, money-hungry scumbags in these transactions.

 

I had the same experience with *bay. Buyer lied and gave a bad review and even got to keep the item and I lost the money as *bay took the money back.  I lost on all accounts.  I had no power with *bay.  A world full of crummy people,  somewhere between 20% and the absolute worst 4% of the population.

This is on the 80/20 rule.  80% good people, 20% want to complain.  If you do something to that 20%, 80% will be OK.  It's the 20% of that 20% which is the 4% that are angry evil persons that nothing will make them happy and their mission in life is to make everyone they come into contact with unhappy & miserable like them.  My experience for doing customer service for over 20 years.

Edited May 22 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[JACK M]

Kinda related,

When I had the boat dealership there were several locals that would regularly stop in and kind of hang out at the shop saying that they will someday buy a boat.

One of those guys finally pulled the trigger and he now had the boat of his dreams.

I took notice that he wasn't very friendly after that.

A couple of weeks later his mom and dad came in and bought a boat from me.

I asked the mom if I had done something to piss off junior.

She replied that he simply hated to spend money and I had a bunch of his now, so I was kind of an enemy.

I guess the good part is that he quit hanging around the place.

 

[TAKerry]

4 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Just got a nasty phone call and a shiatty review online from a guy who bought a Riviera about six weeks ago. Starter failed and he got a flat tire. Somehow both were my fault for failing to predict those things and doing something to keep them from happening. He is demanding $1300 for the repairs and a new tire. He's already written the nasty review, so he'll get nothing, but had he restrained himself in his fit of anger I probably would have helped him out.

 

But go ahead and tell me again how dealers are the amoral, unscrupulous, money-hungry scumbags in these transactions.

Matt, I feel your pain. I am a contractor and people in my field of vocation suffer from the same broad sweep as car dealers. Like you, I like to think Im one of the good guys. My good customers typically get a lifetime warranty. Although I can count on one finger the customer I had that was a total idiot! In fact our job first thing this morning was a quick service call for a very good customer. No billing on this one as I know I will be back there for more work.

[B Jake Moran]

6 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Just got a nasty phone call and a shiatty review online from a guy who bought a Riviera about six weeks ago. Starter failed and he got a flat tire. Somehow both were my fault for failing to predict those things and doing something to keep them from happening. He is demanding $1300 for the repairs and a new tire. He's already written the nasty review, so he'll get nothing, but had he restrained himself in his fit of anger I probably would have helped him out.

 

But go ahead and tell me again how dealers are the amoral, unscrupulous, money-hungry scumbags in these transactions.

Again, I am not painting you or most dealers that way.  I just wanted to know if dealers were marking up their cars 50% , or whatever, and what margins are in this sector of the hobby.  I’ve learned a lot.  I couldn’t even say “V**o” is a good or bad dealer. 

[Jim Skelly]

7 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

The first thought that comes to my mind is the guy who asks if he can have a receipt for a lower amount.

That happened to me.  A coworker hounded me to buy my 15-year-old, rusted out American car since he didn't want to be seen at work driving his new Japanese econobox.  He was only paying $500 for it.  I refused to lie about the sale price, which affects the sales tax when getting the title transferred.  Several months later he complained that the starter or alternator went out.  All I could say was, "the car has over 120,000 miles on it, and it's the original part, what do you expect!"  

[erichill]

Seems this post has shifted to reputations of dealers, Its like the generalization that auto mechanics are out to get you and take advantage of you. Yet when you see local forums of FB or what have you asking for a recommendation for a mechanic there are no shortages of people responding highly recommending their mechanic  In reality the good guys far outweigh the bad.  In today's world the bad don't last long.  I think its this way in most business as Matt said the business owner has a reputation to uphold and has to think about the future. Which as  business owner often means being taken advantage of and dealing with it.  My two cents worth anyways

[3macboys]

8 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Just got a nasty phone call and a shiatty review online from a guy who bought a Riviera about six weeks ago. Starter failed and he got a flat tire. Somehow both were my fault for failing to predict those things and doing something to keep them from happening. He is demanding $1300 for the repairs and a new tire. He's already written the nasty review, so he'll get nothing, but had he restrained himself in his fit of anger I probably would have helped him out.

 

But go ahead and tell me again how dealers are the amoral, unscrupulous, money-hungry scumbags in these transactions.

Matt - I know that feeling, not to your scale but I take pride in my ratings on EBbay and always love the guy that drops the negative review without having made any contact with me.  Last one the guy was complaining about something not included that was clearly stated in the first line of the listing that it was not included.  I've come to the conclusion that having a 98 or 99% positive feedback shows that you are real and those are not all reviews left by family and friends and there is absolutely no one who can keep everyone happy.  When I'm looking at reviews and see a couple of negative ones - doesn't matter what platform - TripAdvisor, Google etc, I take a look at that persons history and 9 times out of 10 every review they've left for anyone has been negative and I completely disregard their opinion.  But yes, it still ticks me off when they pull their stunts.  I might add that one indication that you are dealing with a reputable business is the owner's name is on the sign.

 

Don