A Pre War Car - Funny noise - But no one is laughing! 1936 Packard

[edinmass]

 

Backing the 36 Packard out of the garage for a Sunday evening drive, and had a "funny" noise in second gear..........drained the oil out the bottom of the trans plug..........Presto!

 

 

Edited April 23 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

 

Went to the local Packard dealer, and ordered a new cluster gear, secondary shaft, and input shaft. It ended up there was no need to place an order.......the parts were in stock! 😎

 

The parts were still in the factory wax paper.........

 

[edinmass]

 

Interestingly........the second is much larger......3/16 of an inch........check out the side by side photo.

 

It was a FDM- Factory Directed Modification or upgrade. Appearently a common problem if you "Drive it like you stole it!"

 

 

Edited April 23 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

 

Time to clean up all the parts and start making gaskets..............more later.........Packard & Buick.

[Grimy]

Time to clean up the Buick, too, now that the barn dust has blown off.

[edinmass]

1 minute ago, Grimy said:

Time to clean up the Buick, too, now that the barn dust has blown off.

 

Buy it and you can wash it........otherwise it's gonna stay the same for my lifetime. 

[Snarfy]

8 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

Time to clean up all the parts and start making gaskets..............more later.........Packard & Buick.

No disrespect for the Packard, but I would be drawn to the Buick - it looks original, untouched.

 

[kar3516]

4 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

Buy it and you can wash it........otherwise it's gonna stay the same for my lifetime. 

I like shabby original cars that run great!

[barry22]

If the gear is original to the car, I wonder why after 88 years the teeth broke-off and what was the precipitating factor to make it happen now. It's not like the gear shows any sign of wear, abuse or lack of lubrication.

[edinmass]

47 minutes ago, kar3516 said:

I like shabby original cars that run great!

Can’t get much shabbier or original than the Buick. 😝

[edinmass]

The Packard is all original with a re-spray in the 70s. 

[NewOldWood]

Did you steal it......or were you just driving it like you did??

[edinmass]

I will confess I didn’t pay for the Packard…………. It’s more of a case of adverse possession. Just don’t tell the owner because he’s an attorney.
 

But I wouldn’t hold that against him! much. 

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, barry22 said:

If the gear is original to the car, I wonder why after 88 years the teeth broke-off and what was the precipitating factor to make it happen now. It's not like the gear shows any sign of wear, abuse or lack of lubrication.

 

Interestingly the trans was rebuilt 8 years ago. I'm assuming metal fatigue.....I wonder if the high speed rear end is putting more stress on the gear? Anyway, they obvisously had issues, as the new part is certainly an upgrade. It's a pleasure working on stuff that has part availability........it's a new experience for me. Last week it was V-16 transmissions and every part is make it from scratch as you go along. Just add time and money. I'm starting to be a fan of the 120 Series Packard. It's built similar to the Buick, and is a perfect size for surface roads down here year round. The big boy toys don't fit into most parking spaces anymore. More tomorrow......Ed

[Brass is Best]

2 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Buy it and you can wash it........otherwise it's gonna stay the same for my lifetime. 

Rumor has it you add dirt to the Buick as often as you wash the Packard. Any truth to that?

[edinmass]

34 minutes ago, Brass is Best said:

Rumor has it you add dirt to the Buick as often as you wash the Packard. Any truth to that?

 

Haven't washed the Packard since we got it two years ago..........at least we are consistent. 

[BobinVirginia]

Every time I see a picture of the Buick, a little voice in my head says I need one! 

[edinmass]

38 minutes ago, BobinVirginia said:

Every time I see a picture of the Buick, a little voice in my head says I need one! 

Come on down and drive it for a week. It’s dependable and Phil uses it as a second car. Visitors next week are using it for their transportation.

[BobinVirginia]

1 minute ago, edinmass said:

Come on down and drive it for a week. It’s dependable and Phil uses it as a second car. Visitors next week are using it for their transportation.

Now that sounds like a good idea! 

[DFeeney]

As you have reflected many times with your post "It's part of the Car Hobby Game",  How nice it is to be able to fix it yourself.   Most of us are "self taught"    Pictures of the bad teeth remind me of being in a "Waffle House "at 3AM.

[Tph479]

5 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Interestingly the trans was rebuilt 8 years ago. I'm assuming metal fatigue.....I wonder if the high speed rear end is putting more stress on the gear? Anyway, they obvisously had issues, as the new part is certainly an upgrade. It's a pleasure working on stuff that has part availability........it's a new experience for me. Last week it was V-16 transmissions and every part is make it from scratch as you go along. Just add time and money. I'm starting to be a fan of the 120 Series Packard. It's built similar to the Buick, and is a perfect size for surface roads down here year round. The big boy toys don't fit into most parking spaces anymore. More tomorrow......Ed

Curious question, what is making you become a fan of the 120? I think they are pretty sporty drivers and attractive looking especially for the price point they sold at when new.  Do you think that the continued push to get them CCCA status is because they are easier to drive and handle for the older collectors? Are there any noticeable similarities between the Buick and 120 considering the 120 had some ex GM, I believe Pontiac, guys help out in the development of it?

[1935Packard]

7 hours ago, edinmass said:

I'm starting to be a fan of the 120 Series Packard. It's built similar to the Buick, and is a perfect size for surface roads down here year round. The big boy toys don't fit into most parking spaces anymore. More tomorrow......Ed

Now *that's* an unexpected turn in the road.

[edinmass]

A 120 will never be a CCCA Classic. It’s too small, too cheap(when new), and a mass production car with nothing special about it. It does offer cheap, easy to find parts, and it’s very simple to work on compared to the big cars. Basically “easy to own”………gives it much appeal for part time car enthusiasts. Certainly easier to drive and park. Perfect for ladies to drive without the “battleship syndrome “ of the senior series cars. Will I ever own one? Probably not, but then again, the 34 Buick is basically the same category car…….except fifty times more rare. With a fair amount of upgrades, the junior series car becomes very drivable……….high speed rear, radial tires, ect. Personally I. A purist, but the little 120 is hard to beat for a first time pre war car. 

Edited April 24 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Tom Boehm]

Why is my 1940 Lasalle a Classic but you say the Packard 120 will never be?  The reasons you give apply to the Lasalle also. The later Lasalles shared body shells with Cadillac, Buick, Oldsmobile, and Pontiac. 

[edinmass]

20 minutes ago, Tom Boehm said:

Why is my 1940 Lasalle a Classic but you say the Packard 120 will never be?  The reasons you give apply to the Lasalle also. The later Lasalles shared body shells with Cadillac, Buick, Oldsmobile, and Pontiac. 

Without wanting to be insulting……….the last real Classic LaSalle is a 1933. And the lesser series of Cadillac’s and Buicks should have not been let in. It’s not dumping on the cars……lots of good cars are not CCCA eligible. If you have worked on hundreds of pre war cars…..you know what a true Classic is………defined by the club PRE 1986 is a good spot to start………..like everything else in this world………..standards have gone to hell. While a 1941 Cadillac 60 special is a very nice car……….its a mass produced production car without any special attributes except it’s easy to drive and parts are cheap. And, for the record…….I like the later series Caddy’s, and drive them often. They just aren’t a classic. My 34 Buick 56C is a fun car………..small in displacement, small in chassis length, has significantly fewer parts, poor fit and finish new when compared to a V-16 or a Pierce. Also……please remember, I have a 1915 Ford T………and enjoy it. It’s not a Classic. 

[Dandy Dave]

16 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Backing the 36 Packard out of the garage for a Sunday evening drive, and had a "funny" noise in second gear..........drained the oil out the bottom of the trans plug..........Presto!

 

 

Ouch. I hate it when that happens. 😮

[Dandy Dave]

14 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Interestingly the trans was rebuilt 8 years ago. I'm assuming metal fatigue.....I wonder if the high speed rear end is putting more stress on the gear? Anyway, they obvisously had issues, as the new part is certainly an upgrade. It's a pleasure working on stuff that has part availability........it's a new experience for me. Last week it was V-16 transmissions and every part is make it from scratch as you go along. Just add time and money. I'm starting to be a fan of the 120 Series Packard. It's built similar to the Buick, and is a perfect size for surface roads down here year round. The big boy toys don't fit into most parking spaces anymore. More tomorrow......Ed

Yeah, Tell me about it. My old Chevy Suburban's don't fit well into the parking spaces either. Just a gas guzzling dinosaur still roaming the earth when the weather is right. 🦖  

[edinmass]

 

More progress..........R&R the trans, and a total overhaul with NOS parts all in less than 24 hours........not too shabby. This is how I like to work. Prepare, parts on hand if at all possible. Worked late last night cleaning up the box and making new gaskets. Reassembly this morning...........and driving this afternoon. If you take a car apart......it's no longer a car, just a big paper weight.............I can't stress enough not to take any car apart  until you're ready to push through the project. I buy lots of stuff that got disassembled for a "quick" repair, and 30 years later I'm picking up the pieces for .05 cents on the dollar. 

 

 

Edited April 24 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

[Roscoe]

Love the 120.  I know that if I am to have the chance to be "the man that owns one" it will likely be a junior series. If I could afford the price of admission to the senior series, I'd struggle with any major repairs. And I like to drive them alot so there would be repairs. I admire the big full classics. They are works of art. But I think the smaller Packard would suit me better anyway. In rural Arkansas, it would probably have been more likely to see a 120 Packard that a Senior when they were new cars, anyway. 

And that Buick is beautiful even if it is an open car. Strangely, I prefer closed cars to convertibles/roadsters though. I'm weird, I guess.

[yachtflame]

18 hours ago, barry22 said:

If the gear is original to the car, I wonder why after 88 years the teeth broke-off and what was the precipitating factor to make it happen now. It's not like the gear shows any sign of wear, abuse or lack of lubrication.

He drives it like he stole it!

[jdome]

Use the  clutch next time.

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, jdome said:

Use the  clutch next time.

What’s that? 🤔

[Tph479]

12 hours ago, Roscoe said:

Love the 120.  I know that if I am to have the chance to be "the man that owns one" it will likely be a junior series. If I could afford the price of admission to the senior series, I'd struggle with any major repairs. And I like to drive them alot so there would be repairs. I admire the big full classics. They are works of art. But I think the smaller Packard would suit me better anyway. In rural Arkansas, it would probably have been more likely to see a 120 Packard that a Senior when they were new cars, anyway. 

And that Buick is beautiful even if it is an open car. Strangely, I prefer closed cars to convertibles/roadsters though. I'm weird, I guess.

120’s are excellent cars, well designed and engineered especially for the price point that they were targeting when new. Also don’t feel weird for liking closed cars. They are much more practical for the weather conditions we have where I live.

[Tph479]

21 hours ago, edinmass said:

A 120 will never be a CCCA Classic. It’s too small, too cheap(when new), and a mass production car with nothing special about it. It does offer cheap, easy to find parts, and it’s very simple to work on compared to the big cars. Basically “easy to own”………gives it much appeal for part time car enthusiasts. Certainly easier to drive and park. Perfect for ladies to drive without the “battleship syndrome “ of the senior series cars. Will I ever own one? Probably not, but then again, the 34 Buick is basically the same category car…….except fifty times more rare. With a fair amount of upgrades, the junior series car becomes very drivable……….high speed rear, radial tires, ect. Personally I. A purist, but the little 120 is hard to beat for a first time pre war car. 

I’m not advocating that the 120 is CCCA material, but it seems that it comes up to the committee every few years. Could the reason be that people are looking for an easier to drive mid thirties Packard for touring? Or do you think that the belief is that the cars would rise in price if accepted?

 

What did you think of the quality of the transmission during the rebuild? Overall was it an easy job?

 

 

[BobinVirginia]

@edinmass

Thanks for sharing the technical and mechanical side of these old cars. Most like myself have seen them parked and shown. Very few people get to see the inner workings of what makes them tick and the work involved with that.

[jrbartlett]

Couple years ago I was driving my 1919 Locomobile in the neighborhood at 20 MPH when a sudden shudder went through the entire car. After a few seconds it was over. Everything seemed normal. Later, we found a couple teeth broken off the ring gear. My pre-WW1 expert in Arizona believes it was simple fatigue of century-old metal. Fortunately, I had a new, never-used Phil Hill gearset for a replacement.  

[edinmass]

7 hours ago, Tph479 said:

I’m not advocating that the 120 is CCCA material, but it seems that it comes up to the committee every few years. Could the reason be that people are looking for an easier to drive mid thirties Packard for touring? Or do you think that the belief is that the cars would rise in price if accepted?

 

What did you think of the quality of the transmission during the rebuild? Overall was it an easy job?

 

 

Transmission was nothing special. Much smaller and lighter than what we are used to working on. The V-16 transmission last week tipped the scale at over 300 pounds. The Packard trans might have been 75…..maybe. It’s not a fair comparison to look at a 120 as an upscale car. In reality it was “average middle of the road” quality. From a value when new standpoint………Auburn was the best value. Also, remember the advancements in engineering and production at this time……..the mid size cars were really becoming much better……from a comfort, drivability, and price point. Custom cars died for a bunch of reasons……….and one was the quality of the competition at a lower price point.

 

 

Edited April 25 by edinmass (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

With transmissions it's as much about metallurgy as sheer size. How many post war  { I know you shudder at the word Ed } British transmissions have I rebuilt over the decades ? A lot. These days now that O.E.M. parts have dried up the only real long term fix is to swap in a Japanese 5 speed to your MG, TR, TVR etc. The 5 speed aspect is just a bonus, lighter and simpler than the usual British overdrive. The big attraction is they are really no bigger or heavier than the British 4 speed, but in comparison are absolutely bulletproof. Greatly improved metallurgy is to thank. Too bad the needed Toyota W58 and similar gearboxes are becoming quite rare and pricy as most Japanese cars went FWD years ago. Just Z's and Miata's left and prices are going up on those as well.

 Pre war metallurgy developed very slowly . esp during the depression when R&D money was very tight. The only easy solution to an under engineered part was to make things bigger. Wartime , post war cold war plus the space race brought metallurgy into the spotlight and rapid advance was made in the state of the art. Road vehicles eventually benefitted from the advances.

Edited April 25 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[dibarlaw]

On 4/23/2024 at 8:38 PM, edinmass said:

A 120 will never be a CCCA Classic. It’s too small, too cheap(when new), and a mass production car with nothing special about it. It does offer cheap, easy to find parts, and it’s very simple to work on compared to the big cars. Basically “easy to own”………gives it much appeal for part time car enthusiasts. Certainly easier to drive and park. Perfect for ladies to drive without the “battleship syndrome “ of the senior series cars. Will I ever own one? Probably not, but then again, the 34 Buick is basically the same category car…….except fifty times more rare. With a fair amount of upgrades, the junior series car becomes very drivable……….high speed rear, radial tires, ect. Personally I. A purist, but the little 120 is hard to beat for a first time pre war car. 

Comparisons at the time for my 1937 Buick special as an example. There was also similar comparisons to Studebaker, Dodge, Nash and the Lincoln Zepher.