Observations at an antique automobile auction this morning

[mrcvs]

Well…

 

My observations are as such.

 

Some stuff went very cheaply.  Cars from an estate, they all sold with no reserve, but some of the other stuff was added with a reserve from local collectors.  
 

You add a reserve—unless ridiculously low, your car won’t sell.

 

The crowd—mostly white haired folks.  Doesn’t seem good for the hobby.  However, every automobile, these numbering nine, was pre 1951.

 

My wife’s extra car, a 2005 Jeep Wrangler, caught on fire just after we parked it.  Either electrical or fuel injectors dumping gas onto a hot engine block causing ignition—and it was totaled.  And so I might have an extra garage bay to put something in.  One of two.  The other has the 1917 Maxwell.  I digress, but I see the single most detrimental thing to the future of this hobby is the lack of affordable and ample real estate allowing for the building of garages and other storage facilities.

 

And so, I’m limited to one other garage bay—maybe.  That’s open to debate.

 

So, I attend this auction.  Where I live, my lot is too small to put up additional garage space.  The property did have a separate garage, 4 bays below, 2 cars deep, the same on an upper level as it was built into a hill.  So, can store 16 cars.  But the area itself is less desirable, not as convenient for high paying jobs.  I suppose if you can work from home, that’s different, but my wife certainly wouldn’t want to live in the area.

 

Having said all that, I’m a few years over 50 and have some grey hair.  The folks in the crowd mostly had white hair, so almost all older than me.  I went up to bid on the 1908 REO.  Unrestored, just like I like them.  Probably needs 10 to 30K into it to get it running properly.  Which was why I didn’t take it home today as my wife would disagree with having her bay taken with a car that doesn’t run and would take quite a bit more to get it running.

 

The car is part of an estate, and was in pieces when the owner passed away.  An automobile restoration business was hired to put it back together and it supposedly runs “when towed” but that owner of the business listed off several things that need addressing, none of which would be cheap.

 

Interestingly, he bid it up to 22K and folded and the winning bidder took it home for 23k.

 

A brass era Model T from 1913 was bid to 15k and didn’t sell due to a reserve.

 

Sadly, a Cartercar from 1912 didn’t sell.  The elderly gentleman spoke lovingly of his restoration and conversion when he got it 34 years ago and I could see his disappointment when it only reached 15k and he didn’t let it go for that.

 

i still work too much and don’t have the time to mess around with this stuff as I would like.  But the conclusion I came to today is if I wait another 5 to 10 years until retired, that white haired crowd—and I’m not trying to be disrespectful—will be that much older.  Simple supply of brass era cars and the demand by the remaining more removed from the era seems to dictate that this type of car is ripe for the bottom to really fall out.

 

There definitely is a brass era car in my future, just not today—and, even despite my sentiments, I was tempted very sorely today at $23,500 or $24,000 to me…no buyer’s premium as well.

 

If I had ample garage space, this car would have either been mine or at least bid up considerably more.

 

Thoughts anyone, as to the future of brass car interest in America, the lack of availability of good affordable real estate with garage bays, etc?

 

A bit of an oxymoron here.  You need an ever increasing population base such that a mere fraction of it might be interested in early cars, but this ever increasing population base needs somewhere to live, leading to an increase in real estate prices and the tendency for lots to become ever smaller, not allowing for additional garage space to be built, and should this additional land be available, the homeowner’s association is ready to squash that idea.

 

And photographs of the 1908 REO.

Edited April 20 by mrcvs (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Auctions are the place you go to wholesale your car. In a hot market you can achieve full retail. But not in a slow market. Project cars are hard to sell no matter what. Combine project cars with an auction and you have a recipe for selling incredibly low.

[mrcvs]

What’s the definition of a slow and hot market these days?

 

Not all were project cars.  You could have driven the Carter Car home today.

[edinmass]

I expect in the hobby in the future will resort back to how it was in the 40’s and 50’s. Brass future is bright…….they are simple to own, and less complicated and expensive to repair than 30’s and 40’s cars. That said, what is really going to shift things? Simple………cost of transportation of the vehicles…….not just by commercial carrier…….but owning your own truck and trailer. Brass cars can be hauled by a F150 or other light general purpose vehicle…….my V-12 Pierce needs a 100k + pick up and a 45k + trailer. The cost of the truck, trailer, insurance, maintenance, depreciation, and storage ar becoming absolutely enormous. So smaller lighter cars will be much easier to own. Cars that are “highly drivable “ for their year and function better than average in traffic will also hold up well. I also expect the new generation of owners coming up across the board won’t be into showing for points and having show cars as compared to driving them. It’s about lifestyle choices today………..the car crazy generations are rapidly disappearing………my generation included. Hobby will survive fine……how people participate in it with their cars will most certainly change. 

[edinmass]

As far as the market today……..”Nothing enhances the value of a vehicle more than the current owner selling it.” I suggest a new post 2020 way of looking at cars and their value. Forget about coming out ahead……..just figure out how much fun you can have with the car………and price it accordingly.

[Bhigdog]

51 minutes ago, mrcvs said:

I see the single most detrimental thing to the future of this hobby is the lack of affordable and ample real estate allowing for the building if garages and other storage facilities.

Very astute observation.....

Kinda hard for the average person(s) to indulge a very unnecessary and expensive hobby when a real estate agent doesn't even blink when quoting a price of $300 to $400K for a tract home on 1/3 acre with a small in house garage. If all you can afford is a "town house" or condo you are out of the hobby no matter your interest.........Bob

[mrcvs]

37 minutes ago, edinmass said:

I expect in the hobby in the future will resort back to how it was in the 40’s and 50’s. Brass future is bright…….they are simple to own, and less complicated and expensive to repair than 30’s and 40’s cars. That said, what is really going to shift things? Simple………cost of transportation of the vehicles…….not just by commercial carrier…….but owning your own truck and trailer. Brass cars can be hauled by a F150 or other light general purpose vehicle…….my V-12 Pierce needs a 100k + pick up and a 45k + trailer. The cost of the truck, trailer, insurance, maintenance, depreciation, and storage ar becoming absolutely enormous. So smaller lighter cars will be much easier to own. Cars that are “highly drivable “ for their year and function better than average in traffic will also hold up well. I also expect the new generation of owners coming up across the board won’t be into showing for points and having show cars as compared to driving them. It’s about lifestyle choices today………..the car crazy generations are rapidly disappearing………my generation included. Hobby will survive fine……how people participate in it with their cars will most certainly change. 

That’s a huge problem.  Trucks are way overpriced.  I had no idea that a trailer cost so much.  The sum total is nearly half of what my house cost me.  If I could even afford that 145k the HOA certainly isn’t going to let me keep that trailer around for long.  
 

Get a lesser place with more land, that lesser place—my guess—will need about 145k to get it right and I’m back to square one.  You know what I mean…

 

145k for all that makes the REO seem cheap.

Edited April 20 by mrcvs (see edit history)

[mrcvs]

I should have said my reality is 4 miles to Das Auscht Fecht and a few rides down some back roads.  That’s reality—the most I can afford and my wife and the HOA will tolerate.😀

[mrcvs]

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

Very astute observation.....

Kinda hard for the average person(s) to indulge a very unnecessary and expensive hobby when a real estate agent doesn't even blink when quoting a price of $300 to $400K for a tract home on 1/3 acre with a small in house garage. If all you can afford is a "town house" or condo you are out of the hobby no matter your interest.........Bob

Very good!  My house cost right in the middle of $300 to $400k and I live on a bit less than 1/3 of an acre.  Not desirable nor attractive but, again, reality.

 

This is what a professional degree gets you, too.🤣

[ABear]

1 hour ago, mrcvs said:

I digress, but I see the single most detrimental thing to the future of this hobby is the lack of affordable and ample real estate allowing for the building of garages and other storage facilities.

Wrong.

 

I own about 4 acres of rural land with house, have plenty of space for out buildings, taxes are dirt cheap, no zoning as property is listed as farm land, no city hall inspectors, no HOAs.

 

From your point of view from the location of your little "window" to the world if it from a high density city location you might have something. However looking at things from a larger view outside high density city location, there ARE lots of wide open land available pretty much every single State of the union that can often be had for decent pricing.

 

Your choice of living greatly affects the space you have, what you can do and when you can do things. Living in or near large metro areas limits the size and affordability of the land.. Drive an hr away from the metro area and you will find larger and more affordable lots of land.

 

Find a property in a rural location away from high density population and things you crave like having a garage big enough to house a bunch of vehicles becomes a reality.

 

1 hour ago, mrcvs said:

The car is part of an estate, and was in pieces when the owner passed away.

Estates AND Estate auction = forget about it for purchasing, you will never get a "good deal", maybe if lucky you might get a somewhat acceptable price you can live with but bargain pricing will will not find.

 

Before I bought my property nearly 40 yrs ago, I was searching for any place I considered affordable enough I went to a Estate auction, it had two separate properties with home and barn on them plus they were auctioning off everything from those properties.. Stayed all day and sat through that mess.. The whole thing was crazy as I discovered over time from others buying habits it was a fight between relatives and everything was selling for more than 4 times the value, there may even been a lot of family shill buyers to bump up the selling prices.. Yeah both properties also sold for at least 4 times the value than what they would have sold for through a realtor.. We walked. Bought nothing.

 

Best advice is to set a price in your mind what the absolute max you are willing to spend, when it goes above that walk. Do not get stuck on pretty looking cars sitting there, very few are really rare and eventually you will trip across and other copy at a more reasonable price.

 

Much better ways to purchase antique vehicles, network with some of the local car clubs, get involved with things like car cruises. Often it only takes one or two people you network with to find what you are looking for without the auction drama.

[Century Eight]

26 minutes ago, ABear said:

Wrong.

 

I own about 4 acres of rural land with house, have plenty of space for out buildings, taxes are dirt cheap, no zoning as property is listed as farm land, no city hall inspectors, no HOAs.

 

From your point of view from the location of your little "window" to the world if it from a high density city location you might have something. However looking at things from a larger view outside high density city location, there ARE lots of wide open land available pretty much every single State of the union that can often be had for decent pricing.

 

Your choice of living greatly affects the space you have, what you can do and when you can do things. Living in or near large metro areas limits the size and affordability of the land.. Drive an hr away from the metro area and you will find larger and more affordable lots of land.

 

Find a property in a rural location away from high density population and things you crave like having a garage big enough to house a bunch of vehicles becomes a reality.

 

Estates AND Estate auction = forget about it for purchasing, you will never get a "good deal", maybe if lucky you might get a somewhat acceptable price you can live with but bargain pricing will will not find.

 

Before I bought my property nearly 40 yrs ago, I was searching for any place I considered affordable enough I went to a Estate auction, it had two separate properties with home and barn on them plus they were auctioning off everything from those properties.. Stayed all day and sat through that mess.. The whole thing was crazy as I discovered over time from others buying habits it was a fight between relatives and everything was selling for more than 4 times the value, there may even been a lot of family shill buyers to bump up the selling prices.. Yeah both properties also sold for at least 4 times the value than what they would have sold for through a realtor.. We walked. Bought nothing.

 

Best advice is to set a price in your mind what the absolute max you are willing to spend, when it goes above that walk. Do not get stuck on pretty looking cars sitting there, very few are really rare and eventually you will trip across and other copy at a more reasonable price.

 

Much better ways to purchase antique vehicles, network with some of the local car clubs, get involved with things like car cruises. Often it only takes one or two people you network with to find what you are looking for without the auction drama.

 

[Century Eight]

i  agree with most everything @ABear said.  Allow the fact that you are going to live maybe an hour away from your work to find a place acceptable and also get a garage ceiling tall enough to put in a storage lift.  Most new houses today, like my kids, have an HOA and a garage that will hold a minivan but not a landyatch from the fifties. 

Edited April 20 by Century Eight (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

9 minutes ago, ABear said:

 

Find a property in a rural location away from high density population and things you crave like having a garage big enough to house a bunch of vehicles becomes a reality.

And having a desirable and well paying job within a reasonable commute, good schools, quality entertainment and restaurant options and an overall upper middle class environment...............Not so much.

Living about 70 miles from a large metro area I can say with some degree of certainty you are incorrect. The average building lot in my township is one plus acre. If it is in a reasonable location the price will be in the neighbor hood of 40 to 50K. A well and septic system will add 20K. There is no rapid transit or easy commute to the "City". If there were the prices would be triple.

My daughter-in law is a real estate broker and I can also state with some degree of certainty, you are wildly out of touch with a large portion of the East coast and likely any desirable part of the country............Bob

 

[mrcvs]

Rural vs commuting time vs what the wife wants, it’s tough.

 

I would definitely prefer to live rurally and have a high income, but that’s not reality.  Plus, the wife has a job at a set location and likes things like Costco.

 

The concept of living wherever I want to and working from home meanwhile collecting a high paycheck has never been an option.  I even had to be at work all through Covid.

[ABear]

4 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

And having a desirable and well paying job within a reasonable commute, good schools, quality entertainment and restaurant options and an overall upper middle class environment...............Not so much.

Nope.

 

Not true.

 

Both myself and my Wife have had many "desirable and very well paying jobs" over the yrs and we live 60+ miles outside a large city in a county next to ours.

 

Commute?

 

Yep, been there done that, hr each way for me in good weather and no smash em derbies days, bad weather or crashes and yeah 1.5 hrs each way.. My Wife, got a job paying nearly as much as mine that was a mere 5 mile one way drive.. Good school district with low taxes..

 

Jobs paid well enough to be able buy new vehicles every few yrs with cash.. House paid for, no credit card bills, put Daughter through college with no loan.. I retired early at 55..

 

Yes, some sacrifices but can be easily done, if you are willing to get out of your comfort zone.

[mrcvs]

16 minutes ago, ABear said:

Nope.

 

Not true.

 

Both myself and my Wife have had many "desirable and very well paying jobs" over the yrs and we live 60+ miles outside a large city in a county next to ours.

 

Commute?

 

Yep, been there done that, hr each way for me in good weather and no smash em derbies days, bad weather or crashes and yeah 1.5 hrs each way.. My Wife, got a job paying nearly as much as mine that was a mere 5 mile one way drive.. Good school district with low taxes..

 

Jobs paid well enough to be able buy new vehicles every few yrs with cash.. House paid for, no credit card bills, put Daughter through college with no loan.. I retired early at 55..

 

Yes, some sacrifices but can be easily done, if you are willing to get out of your comfort zone.

Then you are extremely lucky.

 

i knew I liked antique cars even before college.  I went to college basically disillusioned that because I had a college degree I would be in high demand.  I will choose to live in location X, these will be my hours, this will be my pay, and because employers are in such need of folks like me, the response to my numerous demands would be “not a problem”.  Instead, even with a professional degree, my job searches have always ended up with tepid results, even with a college degree, and I even discovered, albeit 35 years ago, that a college degree can still be worth minimum wage in an expensive area.  It’s not what I expected.  Work for me had always been my options are limited, here is where I live, and this is what my hours are.  Again, not desirable but reality.

 

Unless you have something extremely marketable or a connection, that’s reality, unless you are lucky.  I’m not so lucky.

[Bhigdog]

1 minute ago, mrcvs said:

Then you are extremely lucky.

BING! BING! BING!...............We have a winner!..................

 

28 minutes ago, ABear said:

easily done

" Easily done ? " ................Sir, you need to write a book of instructions. ...........Bob

[ABear]

9 minutes ago, mrcvs said:

Then you are extremely lucky.

No, not lucky.

 

More like "calculated" risks.

 

Both Wife and myself only have 2 yr Associates degrees. She was lucky to get her first job that paid just a bit over min wage back then but it gave here a foot in the door to other opportunities that paid better. That eventual lead to better and better paying jobs..

 

Myself, well I spent my first few yrs finding "piece work", yeah, no guaranteed wage, only got paid when I successfully fixed items AND the customer paid for the repairs.. But it was through the early yrs I was able to network with other people to find better paying jobs..

 

All the while we actually created a budget list of all the expenses and setup goals that we wanted to get to.

 

The problem is folks do not think they need to start at the bottom and should start right at the top.. I have been at the bottom, never achieved the top like a CEO, but did enjoy what I did and a company that saw value in me for many satisfying yrs, unit the company was bought out and new management was put in place..

 

Anyone states that you cannot find good paying jobs outside of large metro areas are just taking the easy way out of life.. Sometimes one must take a leap of faith if you want to go somewhere in life other than having pity parties.

 

I intentionally bought a home outside of the county I figured I would end up working, that counties properties are many more times costly along with taxes and other big city costs.

 

My last job, I took a huge gamble, it was a friend of a friend that told me to apply, company was just a few yrs after being a startup, no real track record and my position was through a temp agency.. They eventually hired me as an full time employee.

[Rusty_OToole]

Young people today don't care about cars. Many don't even bother to get a driver's license. Cars just don't mean anything to them. Then there is the employment situation, many can barely afford food and rent and owning a home is an impossible dream.

This means the demand for collector cars in future will be limited in many areas.

[hidden_hunter]

1 hour ago, mrcvs said:

Very good!  My house cost right in the middle of $300 to $400k and I live on a bit less than 1/3 of an acre.  Not desirable nor attractive but, again, reality.

 

This is what a professional degree gets you, too

Where can I get housing that cheap… like our Canadian friends our politicians have firmly planted their foot on the gas pedal to inflate property price.

 

Big enough block for a shed, in a good area even in a 100k pop regional town is pushing a million these days here 

[ABear]

39 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

BING! BING! BING!...............We have a winner!..................

 

" Easily done ? " ................Sir, you need to write a book of instructions. ...........Bob

I am a firm believer in the idea that one only gets out of life in proportion to how much they put into life.

 

Put very little effort into life, get very little out of it, but hey at least you get the pitty parties along the way while doing very little, that must be worth something, right?

[Bhigdog]

Very commendable. Budgeting and frugality is always good advise.

But what was possible 40 to 50 years ago may not be possible today.

I bought my first property a 200 acre farm,house and barn for 20k. Try that today. I bought my first rental property a 5 unit in an excellent part of town for 55k. Try that today. My second was a nice single just down the block for 21k. Try that today.

The real estate landscape, pun intended, has changed to the point where it is extremely difficult for a younger person(s) to afford a nice single home in a doable area. Mmany are resigning to just rent for life. Taxes, especially in urban area,s are crippling. Insurance is rising at double diget rates. Fuel oil here costs more than gasoline. 

It all adds up to a huge nut to cover requiring both halfs of a couple to work full time just to stay in place.

I suggest you read the WSJ to get the pulse of the market.

Your stating, as a matter of fact, that  affording a sizeable parcel of land, with house,  garages and hobby cars is "easily done" for the average person of average means causes me to bite my tongue lest i be banned,........bob

 

Edited April 20 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[CarNucopia]

20 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Young people today don't care about cars. Many don't even bother to get a driver's license. Cars just don't mean anything to them. Then there is the employment situation, many can barely afford food and rent and owning a home is an impossible dream.

This means the demand for collector cars in future will be limited in many areas.

I'd wager there are more young car enthusiasts now then ever before. Your point above may be more of a reflection of where you spend your time vs. where they do.

[mrcvs]

38 minutes ago, hidden_hunter said:

Where can I get housing that cheap… like our Canadian friends our politicians have firmly planted their foot on the gas pedal to inflate property price.

 

Big enough block for a shed, in a good area even in a 100k pop regional town is pushing a million these days here 

You can’t.  That’s what my house cost nearly eleven years ago.  Now it’s over 600k.  Around these parts, you want a decent house and even a bit more than a postage stamp size lot, unless it’s a gut job, it’s a 7 figure property.

 

I’m in southeastern Pennsylvania.

Edited April 20 by mrcvs (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

2 minutes ago, mrcvs said:

You can’t.  That’s what my house cost nearly eleven years ago.  Now it’s over 600k.  Around these parts, you want a decent house and even a bit more than a postage stamp size lot, unless it’s a gut job, it’s a 7 figure property.

 

I’m in southeastern Pennsylvania.

Yes, you can. 

Just get a piece rate job, then hop job to job while budgeting your minimal wages and before you know it you too can be telling every one else they are feckless self pitying lay abouts....bob

[old car fan]

Another post that went stupid. 

[mrcvs]

Realistically, what’s a 1908 REO that needs some work to get it going but is all there, including the paper mache apron really worth?

 

23k seemed good, but maybe not?

[Bhigdog]

5 minutes ago, old car fan said:

Another post that went stupid. 

Yeah, i should ban myself just for getting involved. I keep forgetting what  Mark Twain said about arguing with stupid people.

With that i,m banning  myself from further comment....bob

Edited April 20 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Fordy]

The reality being stated on property "dictating" how we involve ourselves in our hobby of old cars may well be off topic but is a very relevant factor.

I "went rural" several years ago as city prices had me out of that market. What I got 50 miles out of town for half city pricing was double the size of anything "closer". The "closer" thing is relative - I still worked in the city but my commute time was around the same due to less traffic to get there as there was no "across town and all the traffic signals etc. Now I am not working except for tinkering with cars, and I would not even consider living elsewhere.

I went from a single garage and carport to a 4-car garage with workshop space which I have since added to - this allowed me the room to get more old vehicles and indulge in my love for them. The hobby almost demands ample space to house the cars plus parts plus the pieces being worked on - Inner city or nowadays normal suburban housing is tiny and cramped - make a noise and the neighbour is at you for disturbing him, or someone else complains about the "unsightly wreck" in your yard.

The post may have "gone stupid" in old car fan's opinion but the general discussion within remains relevant to the hobby.

Steve

[60FlatTop]

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

But what was possible 40 to 50 years ago may not be possible today.

That is the way I see many things when today's conversations get comparative with generations. It is a lot like the ancient Greeks writing about the insolent, incompetent youth of their time. And every generation after.

 

I have always loved cars but never pigeon holed myself into a single genre. My years in the hobby have been intensive since 1959 and a lot of things have changed over those decades. I have never felt excluded or threatened by the changes. I don't now and hoping to get in another 30 years. I am willing to adapt. Being active in the hobby surrounds me with opportunity. I took about a 10 year break from car activities when I began to sense my son and daughter thought I was more interested in car shows on weekends than them. It was a good break all the way around.

 

I live in a small Erie Canal village on a 2 acre lot with plenty of room. My garage is a little less than 150' from the house and easily holds four car, although I can park six in there if I am not working on anything. One would never know the car stuff going on just driving by. I keep it pretty low key.

 

Here are three across the back. Riviera under restoration. A pile of stuff I was re-storing from one place to another storage place.

 

Funny thing about work. My occupation has been power plant operation with the majority of hours being on the night or swing shifts. A good number of the village would tell you "Oh, Bernie, I don't think he ever did anything, just drives old cars and hangs around the coffee shop." I'll go with that perception, could be a lot worse.

 

Today my wife and I went out to lunch. The rest of the day I was addressing the flat surface syndrome problem in the garage. "No more stuff will be set on the cars. They are not tables!"

 

I just love cars, working on them, buying them, selling the lesser ones. And I will be doing that right to the end. There are a lot of people on this Earth who think it is their mission to put limitations on me and the things I like. I aam certianly not going to put any limitations on myself to help them along.

Edited April 20 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[TerryB]

Back to the auction today in PA.  From the listing for the Cartercar

2. 1912 Carter Car - 30 HP 5 passenger touring.  The car utilized a friction drive system to get power to the rear wheels.  Other manufacturers tried the same system.  They all experienced the same failure in this operation.   A major wear of the drive disc was the inability to transmit torque.  The owner of this car, being a qualified machinist/mechanic, converted the car to a standard clutch and transmission.   It is now a very reliable tour proven brass era car to be driven and shown.  It is equipped with correct brass lamps, brake/headlights, interior diamond tuft leather.  It has beautiful exterior lines, everything you would want in a brass car era.

[mrcvs]

5 minutes ago, TerryB said:

Back to the auction today in PA.  From the listing for the Cartercar

2. 1912 Carter Car - 30 HP 5 passenger touring.  The car utilized a friction drive system to get power to the rear wheels.  Other manufacturers tried the same system.  They all experienced the same failure in this operation.   A major wear of the drive disc was the inability to transmit torque.  The owner of this car, being a qualified machinist/mechanic, converted the car to a standard clutch and transmission.   It is now a very reliable tour proven brass era car to be driven and shown.  It is equipped with correct brass lamps, brake/headlights, interior diamond tuft leather.  It has beautiful exterior lines, everything you would want in a brass car era.

Bid up to 15k and the owner said no sale & rightfully so.

[Larry Schramm]

6 hours ago, edinmass said:

I suggest a new post 2020 way of looking at cars and their value. Forget about coming out ahead……..just figure out how much fun you can have with the car………and price it accordingly.

 

Best thing is driving the cars.  We just came back from a one week tour that we put 450 miles on our 1913 Buick touring car.  It was a lot more fun than going to some amusement park or other activity. 

 

That is the way we cash out the "value" from the purchase price and upkeep of our vehicles.   We have seven tours scheduled this summer to make those fun withdrawals.

 

We usually put between 1,500-2,000 miles on this car each year.  How much "value" is that worth?

Edited April 21 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

3 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Young people today don't care about cars. Many don't even bother to get a driver's license. Cars just don't mean anything to them. Then there is the employment situation, many can barely afford food and rent and owning a home is an impossible dream.

This means the demand for collector cars in future will be limited in many areas.

 

I would argue that a lot of the lack of interest in the old cars has come from our generation and our cars telling the younger generation to "look but don't touch" message that we have been sending to the next generation for years.  When they have heard that message for years, individuals move on to other interests.

 

I for one have been on the other side of the ledger and with our offspring let them drive anything they want.

 

One day I came home and our 1915 Buick truck was not in the garage, but our sons car was home.  A little time later he comes rolling into the drive with one of his girlfriends that he had taken on a ride.  He was 16 years old.  In my world, no problem.  Put a smile on his face, the girlfriends face and my face too.

 

My younger daughter and her husband now tour with us and have been on a couple of tours and they are in their early 30's.  Here they are on a tour with us.  Picture from the Buick Bugle.

 

Edited April 21 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Walt G]

3 minutes ago, Larry Schramm said:

I would argue that a lot of the lack of interest in the old cars has come from our generation and our cars telling the younger generation to "look but don't touch" message that we have been sending to the next generation for years. 

I agree completely I have stated here often about the lack of welcoming new people into the old car hobby. This is especially true of a luxury car club that I used to belong to but left about 6 years ago after being a member for over 45 years. We are the good will ambassadors to the antique, classic, special interest car enthusiasts. It is up to us to be the welcoming person to the "newbies". Great to have friends and talk to them as they own the same type of cars belong to the clubs etc BUT do not ignore the new comers.

If you want to see interest in the cars continue then you have to make the effort to welcome people.

[mechanician]

45 minutes ago, TerryB said:

Back to the auction today in PA.  From the listing for the Cartercar

2. 1912 Carter Car - 30 HP 5 passenger touring.  The car utilized a friction drive system to get power to the rear wheels.  Other manufacturers tried the same system.  They all experienced the same failure in this operation.   A major wear of the drive disc was the inability to transmit torque.  The owner of this car, being a qualified machinist/mechanic, converted the car to a standard clutch and transmission.   It is now a very reliable tour proven brass era car to be driven and shown.  It is equipped with correct brass lamps, brake/headlights, interior diamond tuft leather.  It has beautiful exterior lines, everything you would want in a brass car era.

That's understandably going to be a hard sell.  However well it is presented it is a highly modified car that still has the reputation of it's name.  Cartercar enthusiasts or brass curiosity seekers will miss the opportunity to experience it with its most prominent feature, and to those who would never have a Cartercar, it still is.  It's like buying a Stanley with a model T drivetrain. 

 

The REO sounds like it may have sold about right (depending on the exact nature of what's left to do).  It doesn't sound like a bargain but perhaps a fair price.

[1912Staver]

I have come to the conclusion that a person needs a minimum of two buildings . One nicely insulated, heated and with ample lighting for the actual shop. And a second , possibly bigger , but very basic building purely for storage. Parts , parts cars, future projects, all the big tools and things that you need over time but only use every now and then.

[1912Staver]

I also see Brass era values reducing in some categories. Relatively low H.P. cars , say about 20 -25 H.P. are already dropping . How much is a function of body style , originality and year. Later brass cars are a lot less sought after than the early examples. I usually place the dividing line around 1912. 1911 and older most cars are RHD { except T's } and have no front doors, and even the cheaper ones have a reasonable amount of brass. These cars will drop the least compared to similar cars but 1912 - 1915 . 

 Ford T's  are a bit of an exception due to their numbers and parts support. a 1911 or older T is quite expensive for a low H.P. car, but one of the easiest to keep in running condition.

 The mid H.P. cars are still holding their own on pricing but that may soften somewhat over the next 5 years or so . The same about 1911 and older vs 1912 and newer divide also seems to exist. The older ones just look more like antique cars, but the new ones { sometimes with electric lights and starting } are easier to live with.

 High H.P. cars are still as expensive as ever regardless of year and will probably be the last to drop in price.

[mrcvs]

30 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

I have come to the conclusion that a person needs a minimum of two buildings . One nicely insulated, heated and with ample lighting for the actual shop. And a second , possibly bigger , but very basic building purely for storage. Parts , parts cars, future projects, all the big tools and things that you need over time but only use every now and then.

Amen!  You can say what you want about American Pickers, but one thing I see are individuals with the ability to at least have one or more outbuildings of size that they can fill with whatever they want, this often being automobiles.  If I had something like that, either that REO would have come home with me today or the winning bidder would have paid a bit more.  The ability to acquire something and store it until you get around to dealing with it, which very well may be never, is HUGE!

[mrcvs]

1 hour ago, mechanician said:

That's understandably going to be a hard sell.  However well it is presented it is a highly modified car that still has the reputation of it's name.  Cartercar enthusiasts or brass curiosity seekers will miss the opportunity to experience it with its most prominent feature, and to those who would never have a Cartercar, it still is.  It's like buying a Stanley with a model T drivetrain. 

 

The REO sounds like it may have sold about right (depending on the exact nature of what's left to do).  It doesn't sound like a bargain but perhaps a fair price.

How would one value the REO?  I thought, a brass era care, unrestored, an old coat of paint applied decades ago, can get running according to the individual who put it back together and bid 22k on it—I thought very fairly priced.  But, to be honest with you, it was worth more to me running today even if it cost me a bit more as having a car that is not running in the other garage bay where my wife’s extra car used to reside—is a hard sell to my wife.