"PROJECT" has now become nearly unaffordable to ever do ?

[edinmass]

The best way to end up with a small fortune invested in a project car, is to start with a very large fortune! 

[plymouthcranbrook]

17 hours ago, Laughing Coyote said:

I wouldn't say rare....I would say well done. 

I would say overdone or as Momma used to say, burnt to a chrisp.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

1 hour ago, TTR said:

With all due respect, but while my experience doesn’t go as far back as “1960” (like suggested by “Restorer32”), these “discussions” or whining about the changes in or perceived high costs of this hobby have been around annoying & boring true enthusiasts (like me and my lifelong vintage car buddies) for the 45 or so years I’ve been involved with it. 
When we initially got interested & involved with vintage cars (4+ decades ago), my friends & I heard same kind of complaining/whining (mainly from “old guys”) and used to think “perhaps they should get a hobby they can afford and able just enjoy ?”, so in my view, nothing has changed.

 

Again, constantly complaining about the high costs and other perceived negative aspects of this (or any other) hobby, especially in public forums/platforms/etc, will almost certainly affect (deflate?) any interests newer/younger generations may have/show toward it. 
 

 

 

 

 Thank you, sir. You are spot on, in my opinion.

 

  Ben

[Jack Bennett]

12 hours ago, Dave Henderson said:

This was my comment after editing, it was buried by incoming several posts during the moments the edit was being written.  A couple cases in point about "it being the other way around" are; 1) A customized CCCA classic, bastardized using Lincoln, Oldsmobile and Ford parts, then neglected to the point where the engine had frozen and the body, stripped to the bare metal, was left out in the elements to rust all over.  Still restorable, yes, but only as a labor of love and a sure financial disaster.  The decision was made to part it out, and the yield resulting was 10 fold over the "whole car" price.  2)  A Model A Ford incomplete restoration, still needing minor remaining body work, chrome, paint, and "some assembly needed".  As has been discussed about project cars not being as appealing any more, this car would bring more parted out for its many new and restored elements than as a project. 
But more power to anyone taking on a difficult (aren't they all?) restoration knowing it is a labor of love.  

I will restate the title of this thread for those who have forgotten what it is about.

“Project” has now become nearly unaffordable to ever do”.

This appears to allude to the financial aspect of restoring a machine, perhaps neglected and broken, to some state of usability. 
Actually, it points to the fact that we, the participants in the hobby, are the only ones guilty of pricing others out of the hobby.

My meager understanding of mathematics still leads me to believe that a person selling used parts for 10 fold the “whole car” price,  computes to them making a profit equal to 90% of the actual resale value of the part.

That means that the person who needs the part for a project car can’t, or in my case, won’t, pay the ridiculous price asked for the part, and, consequently THEIR project car is neglected to the point where the engine is frozen and the bare metal left to rust……..of course, that is until they strip the bastardized car, and sell the parts from it for 10 times the “whole car” price.

The burden of keeping the hobby “affordable” rests wholly on our shoulders, and if it does become a untenable cash cow, we have only ourselves to blame.

Would you pay $925.00 for a cracked steering wheel to use on a project truck which is little more than some rusty metal and rotted wood?

How about $195.00 for a knockoff door handle for a 100 year old car, or $125.00 for the few inches in diameter escutcheon it needs to look “flashy”.

If you have, and are willing to pay $925.00 for a steering wheel which has been bought for $5.00 in a junk yard a few days before, YOU are the problem, not the greedy clown advertising the steering wheel on eBay or Amazon.

The sad thing is, that while they get their pockets lined with money from the, not too smart, wealthy, those who do participate in the hobby as therapy or a need to keep active are priced out of the hobby.

Is it immoral for someone to use the gullibility and lack of mental acuity of another to line their pockets? Not really….it’s called “enterprise” or even “entrepreneurship”.

Does it remove those who are on a limited budget, and have set aside sufficient funds to share a hobby into their infirmity, from the opportunity to lead the formidable or latter part of their lives in dignity?

The way you answer says loads about how you value the time you spent reading this.

Jack

 

[Packard enthus.]

RICH PEOPLE FOWLING UP THE OLD CAR HOBBY....?

Yes - I agree completely.  Trouble is, I don't think there is a solution....there is always some guy who is better off than some of us, leaving us "with the crumbs".   Nothing new there...!   Point is...life isn't fair...wasn't fair...most likely will remain unfair.

 

An example.   I had my heart set on a near "mint"  1935 Packard Twelve town car - was in the back of  a used car lot on Melrose (Los Angeles).   I was ready to buy,  but all I could scrape up after two summers of mowing lawns,  was twenty five bucks. No way could I come up with the seventy five bucks they wanted for it.    I watched as a gardener came in...had the seventy five bucks.....tossed his gardening tools and mower into that Laidlaw broadcloth interior.

 

So now you know why I got stuck with a much less desirable '38 Packard Twelve (which I liked not quite as much...but decided to keep - true , the earlier Twelve has a much more impressive, more "classic" look than mine...but again.... life isn't fair).   (my parents thought I was nuts for blowing my hard-earned money on what they called "that thing"..... buying a car that became a "project"....with a bad battery, obviously needed a ring-and-valve job....and...yuk...those tires....!

[Jack Bennett]

On 11/9/2023 at 8:26 AM, Restorer32 said:

If this were 1960 would the comments be any different ?

Sure……..I seriously doubt that those making the comments, especially alluding to restoring a 1967 Camero, would even consider owning a 1967 Camero and those considering restoring a Duesenberg costing $125,000.00 were more concerned with white bucks and bell bottom pants.
In 1960, in opposition to being 79 years old, I was a rambunctious 16 year old driving a 1941 Dodge sedan. 
It was customized in that we had painted it, with a paintbrush, in gray primer, painted the wheels white, and had some sexy baby moon hub caps.

The primer was a hint that a custom, candy apple red, metal flake, 16 layer, paint job was just around the corner, and that, alone, made it “cool”.

Working as a bus boy in a hotel/restaurant netted me .35 cents a hour, which was substantially less after social security and L&I was taken out.

But gas was .23 cents a gallon, and the station attendant had a dinging hose across the ramp to let them know to look the other way while we drained the pump hose.

It was a Saturday night thing for the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Department and the Phoenix City Police to block off VanBuren street, the main drag through downtown Phoenix, from midnight until three o’clock Sunday morning, while we drag raced to check out the work we had done to our cars during the week.

As Van Buren left Phoenix and entered Glendale, we could be sure that a Arizona State Trooper, a Deputy Sheriff or a city policeman would be waiting to critique our run and offer suggestions to tweak our cars performance.

No animosity between the teens and law enforcement, even though Phoenix is only a stones throw from the Mexican border, no drugs, and the cost of alcohol was better spent for a new set of plug wires or a replacement for that old distributor cap.

Yep, if it were possible to roll back time, look at us now, as compared to who we were in 1960, I seriously doubt we wold be making the same comments.

Jack

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

1 hour ago, Packard enthus. said:

RICH PEOPLE FOWLING UP THE OLD CAR HOBBY....?

Yes - I agree completely.  Trouble is, I don't think there is a solution....there is always some guy who is better off than some of us, leaving us "with the crumbs".   Nothing new there...!   Point is...life isn't fair...wasn't fair...most likely will remain unfair.

 

An example.   I had my heart set on a near "mint"  1935 Packard Twelve town car - was in the back of  a used car lot on Melrose (Los Angeles).   I was ready to buy,  but all I could scrape up after two summers of mowing lawns,  was twenty five bucks. No way could I come up with the seventy five bucks they wanted for it.    I watched as a gardener came in...had the seventy five bucks.....tossed his gardening tools and mower into that Laidlaw broadcloth interior.

 

So now you know why I got stuck with a much less desirable '38 Packard Twelve (which I liked not quite as much...but decided to keep - true , the earlier Twelve has a much more impressive, more "classic" look than mine...but again.... life isn't fair).   (my parents thought I was nuts for blowing my hard-earned money on what they called "that thing"..... buying a car that became a "project"....with a bad battery, obviously needed a ring-and-valve job....and...yuk...those tires....!

My suggestion is that you spend a bit less on a car you apparently hate, and invest in a mattress which affords you a decent nights sleep.

I do not like “quotes” because it takes up a lot of space, and it can seem redundant for a popular post.

But, criticism deserves recognition, and I think you should have quoted me, and replied to what I said rather than a rant about “rich” people.

”Rich people” build businesses and employs people. Rich people pay massive amounts of tax which allows the government to buy nifty airplanes and submarines. 
“Rich people” die and leave large sums of money to be redistributed in way which keeps the economy healthy.

Most “Rich people” I have known are some of the most reserved people imaginable. Having attained the status of being “rich” they can afford to drop  the pretense of even being “likable.

”Poor people” want to be rich, and are willing to subvert the well being of anyone, in any way, to get that way.

The issue here, as it relates to the purpose of the AACA forum, is the waning ability to afford to sustain the hobby of antique/classic car hobby.

There is no expense related to being “decent”, and it doesn’t take a “rich” person to practice the trait.

I am not “rich” or even wealthy, whatever that is compared to. But, I have given away a 1964 MG Midget, a 1963 Mercury Meteor Station wagon, a 1973 Open Road motor home and a lot of antique car parts I found was excess to the projects I was working on.

I simply want to buy a transmission for my old panel truck, or a fuel pump for my old Plymouth without having to pay for a rich kid’s college education to get them.

My projects, in no way, competes with those undertaken by the more well off, but, by George, I have buried a lot of much younger people who valued profit over satisfaction.

Jack

 

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

It is with great sadness that I have decided to scrap my Hudson NASCAR winning sedan project. After loosing all the money buying the project, and my down payment to get it restored. (Paid in full I might add) I have just run into one bad situation after another. I could have followed the advice of people on the AACA, and bought a better car to start with. Asked questions, researched cost involved. But I moved forward because of the chance to own such a rare car. Never heard from the guy I bought it from on the extra parts, and could not find him. (he changed his name) and can not find anyone wanting to finish the project for me. Someone did tell me that Hudson never raced the sedans. And that was just more disappointment. So I have scrapped the project. And on top of all of this, I learn that it is not even a Hornet. This Whole time it was a Commodore. Time for some garage music.😀

 

[8E45E]

More fitting, even though the base model:  

 

[Dave Henderson]

19 hours ago, Dave Henderson said:

This was my comment after editing, it was buried by incoming several posts during the moments the edit was being written.  A couple cases in point about "it being the other way around" are; 1) A customized CCCA classic, bastardized using Lincoln, Oldsmobile and Ford parts, then neglected to the point where the engine had frozen and the body, stripped to the bare metal, was left out in the elements to rust all over.  Still restorable, yes, but only as a labor of love and a sure financial disaster.  The decision was made to part it out, and the yield resulting was 10 fold over the "whole car" price.  2)  A Model A Ford incomplete restoration, still needing minor remaining body work, chrome, paint, and "some assembly needed".  As has been discussed about project cars not being as appealing any more, this car would bring more parted out for its many new and restored elements than as a project. 
But more power to anyone taking on a difficult (aren't they all?) restoration knowing it is a labor of love.  

The CCCA classic was advertised in a large city's leading newspaper and there lookers, but there was just one willing buyer.  No one wanted to take it on as a project, accordingly It sold very reasonably.  Desirable parts salvaged were made available and were quickly purchased at fair prices by buyers happy to have even found them.  A much better result than having the complete project car go to the crusher.

[Dave Henderson]

19 hours ago, Dave Henderson said:

This was my comment after editing, it was buried by incoming several posts during the moments the edit was being written.  A couple cases in point about "it being the other way around" are; 1) A customized CCCA classic, bastardized using Lincoln, Oldsmobile and Ford parts, then neglected to the point where the engine had frozen and the body, stripped to the bare metal, was left out in the elements to rust all over.  Still restorable, yes, but only as a labor of love and a sure financial disaster.  The decision was made to part it out, and the yield resulting was 10 fold over the "whole car" price.  2)  A Model A Ford incomplete restoration, still needing minor remaining body work, chrome, paint, and "some assembly needed".  As has been discussed about project cars not being as appealing any more, this car would bring more parted out for its many new and restored elements than as a project. 
But more power to anyone taking on a difficult (aren't they all?) restoration knowing it is a labor of love.  

The CCCA classic was advertised in a large city's leading newspaper and there lookers, but there was just one willing buyer.  No one wanted to take it on as a project, accordingly It sold very reasonably.  Desirable parts salvaged were made available and were quickly purchased at fair prices by buyers happy to have even found them.  A much better result than having the complete project car go to the crusher.

[Angelfish]

On 11/8/2023 at 6:14 PM, arcticbuicks said:

i no longer have a TV ......since the ones with rabbit ears and tin foil stopped picking up a signal

I needed the tinfoil for my hat.

[Xander Wildeisen]

Only works if the hat is on your head.

[arcticbuicks]

the funny thing is .......im not joking lol........a couple years ago in Canada TV stations stopped broadcasting over the air......where a tv antenna would pick up stations,i am pushing distance so i had tin foil and tried a few antenna boosters etc at my one rural place....and the tin foil worked great...........now tv is just satellite or cable which i had trenched in a few miles for better internet too...........so....good luck with your hat.

 

anyone remember the "party line"?........ where 10 or however many rural houses had one phone line........but with different ring tone for each house .

[B Jake Moran]

On 11/8/2023 at 1:32 PM, arcticbuicks said:

the more i see a 'project' now.....cars listed as a 'project'.......the more it appears to be unaffordable to ever restore a car these days........except a very few.

You are correct. Those days are over - in a macro sense.  Obviously there are still individuals and shops doing restorations, but the culture that surrounded the hobby is shrinking by the day.  

[B Jake Moran]

On 11/8/2023 at 2:51 PM, John Kelso said:

Why do so many place a monetary value on projects. Does spending a Saturday watching football seem worthwhile? How do you place a value in the shop with your son

or daughter? What about the value of learning how to do something differently? Research?

John you are correct.  I enjoyed my years restoring cars. Heated garage in January, Pink Floyd on the stereo, beer. It’s a nice hobby 

[B Jake Moran]

On 11/8/2023 at 3:06 PM, Talarico8447 said:

It's had to find a car to restore today that's at an affordable price to obtain. Even if you have to drag it out of the mud with a family of Rats living in it people want a fortune for it. 

100% correct. And most don’t sell and when they do we don’t know for how much.  I’m learning this the hard way. In the process of buying a project to do with a “little” brother.  

[8E45E]

7 hours ago, arcticbuicks said:

Anyone remember the "party line"?........ where 10 or however many rural houses had one phone line........but with different ring tone for each house .

They were not different tones, but combination of longer or shorter rings.  Before dial phones, one full turn of the handcrank was a 'short' ring, and two full turns was a 'long' ring.  In Saskatchewan, a combination of four rings was a person's phone "number".

 

Craig

[Xander Wildeisen]

What year is it up there in Canada?

[Rusty Heaps]

18 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

It is with great sadness that I have decided to scrap my Hudson NASCAR winning sedan project. After loosing all the money buying the project, and my down payment to get it restored. (Paid in full I might add) I have just run into one bad situation after another. I could have followed the advice of people on the AACA, and bought a better car to start with. Asked questions, researched cost involved. But I moved forward because of the chance to own such a rare car. Never heard from the guy I bought it from on the extra parts, and could not find him. (he changed his name) and can not find anyone wanting to finish the project for me. Someone did tell me that Hudson never raced the sedans. And that was just more disappointment. So I have scrapped the project. And on top of all of this, I learn that it is not even a Hornet. This Whole time it was a Commodore. Time for some garage music.😀

 

Don’t be discouraged, I found you a better one 🤣!

[Rusty Heaps]

20 hours ago, Packard enthus. said:

RICH PEOPLE FOWLING UP THE OLD CAR HOBBY....?

Yes - I agree completely.  Trouble is, I don't think there is a solution....there is always some guy who is better off than some of us, leaving us "with the crumbs".   Nothing new there...!   Point is...life isn't fair...wasn't fair...most likely will remain unfair.

 

An example.   I had my heart set on a near "mint"  1935 Packard Twelve town car - was in the back of  a used car lot on Melrose (Los Angeles).   I was ready to buy,  but all I could scrape up after two summers of mowing lawns,  was twenty five bucks. No way could I come up with the seventy five bucks they wanted for it.    I watched as a gardener came in...had the seventy five bucks.....tossed his gardening tools and mower into that Laidlaw broadcloth interior.

 

So now you know why I got stuck with a much less desirable '38 Packard Twelve (which I liked not quite as much...but decided to keep - true , the earlier Twelve has a much more impressive, more "classic" look than mine...but again.... life isn't fair).   (my parents thought I was nuts for blowing my hard-earned money on what they called "that thing"..... buying a car that became a "project"....with a bad battery, obviously needed a ring-and-valve job....and...yuk...those tires....!

And some of us see the possibilities in much less.

[Xander Wildeisen]

Now there is a winner, if I only could have started with something like this. Things would be different, I could have worked with a project like this. No need to have my old buddy help out. Guess I need to start saving up some more money. Maybe the seller will take payments?

[8E45E]

37 minutes ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

What year is it up there in Canada?

In 1969, crank phones were still in use in Southern Saskatchewan.  My uncle's in-laws lived on a farm in Claydon, and they had a four-ring "number".  Theirs was "short", "short", "long", "short", or written down as ".._." 

 

Craig

[Bhigdog]

41 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

They were not different tones, but combination of longer or shorter rings.  Before dial phones, one full turn of the handcrank was a 'short' ring, and two full turns was a 'long' ring.  In Saskatchewan, a combination of four rings was a person's phone "number".

 

Craig

Yup. Our phone could not be called from the "out side world" without the assistance of an operator. Our "number" was Mantzville 26R31. You would tell HER  "Mantzville 26R31". Usually you could her cross talking to another operator to get the routing then our phone would ring......3 longs and 1 short.

Once a year the phone guy would change the big dry cell batteries in the cellar.

I understood that system a lot better than I understand my current phones................Bob

[arcticbuicks]

we had the party line up to about 1981 with the rotary dial phones already gone to push button pad

[60FlatTop]

I never bought into this idea that one would buy a project car and be required to complete it. I have owned lots of them for a while, really enjoyed al the privileges of ownership, done some work, studied the history,, and eventually sold them. I would say I generally made a little money, enough to repeat the process quite a few times. I am quite sure I will buy another.

 

Metaphors are fun. It is like walking a little way on the Appalachia Trail but not going the whole distance. I can handle that. And enjoy it.

 

Comments about the rich or wealthy always entertain me. Some old guy keeps cars for his own toys. Maybe their perspective is skewed. One of the wealthiest men in our village told me about how high a regard he held for my great grandfather. Old Tom Daily bought scrap. In 1940-41 the man destined to be wealthy struggled to dig a heavy cast iron cylinder head from a hedge row. He took his find to my grandfather Tom and Tom said he could pay him about 25 cents for it. Then he cautioned the man, we will call him Ike. Tom said "You know there is a war coming soon. If you can hold on to that for a while I will be able to pay you much more." Ike said he never forgot that small act of kindness. But he told me he needed that 25 cents so much he sold the scrap that day. He told me that story about 35 years ago. When I think about some old guy complaining about the rich ruining his hobby I wonder how poor they really think they are.

[Xander Wildeisen]

Very true on the not finishing a project. Every car has a breaking point where there is no return on investment. And what work you do while you have it. Can save the next owner some money and time. Just sold three projects, would have liked to dive into them a little more. Just made more sense to cut them loose. I look at car’s everyday. No shortage of stuff out there.

[automaschinewerks]

12 minutes ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

Very true on the not finishing a project. Every car has a breaking point where there is no return on investment. And what work you do while you have it. Can save the next owner some money and time. Just sold three projects, would have liked to dive into them a little more. Just made more sense to cut them loose. I look at car’s everyday. No shortage of stuff out there.

this doesnt work for everybody, but i get an excellent return on investment on my old cars.  when im driving the erskine and older fellows come over and want to talk about it i forget all about the money and time i spent.  im in my own little word when im working on the cars, and driving them.  like others said about golfing, fishing, or whatever, all that matters is doing what your hobby is.  as far as breaking point, its great incentive to finish the car when all i can think about is what itll be like driving it around next summer (hopefully).

[60FlatTop]

If I was 25-30 years old today I would get a part time job of about 10 hours per week, a reasonable amount of time to spend on a hobby restoration. Then I would make friends with my banker. I would set things up so my part time job would cover buying a $25,000 to $35,000 car every 3-5 years.

 

About 5 years ago there was a nice red '51 Packard 250 convertible listed on Ebay that I kept looking at for 25G and I thought how lucky some 30 year old would feel 30 years down the road if they used that plan.

 

I write stuff like this and remember that happened around the same time I bought this.

 

But by lightly cleaning and collating the parts I did manage to come up with $1600 of extra walking around money.

[Xander Wildeisen]

There is also a big difference if your hobby is also your job. If you play with cars and that is not your main source of income. You would look at cars a little different than someone who is a dealer/builder/restorer, that also has a hobby with old cars. Owning a business in this industry, you have to look at cars from a value angle, as well as from a hobby, labor of love angle.

[keiser31]

On 11/9/2023 at 8:28 AM, keiser31 said:

Being a poor boy for most of my life, everything I do on my cars is unaffordable. I keep picking away at them, though. Don't have any idea what I have spent and do not care. I just wanna get my cars done so I can enjoy the rides.

I hope this doesn't come off as complaining or whining. It's just the way it is.

[B Jake Moran]

23 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

 Thank you, sir. You are spot on, in my opinion.

 

  Ben

But Ben, 

 

I am 60 and I remember getting cheap parts out of salvage yards years ago.  Part of the issue is the standard has changed.  My cars were drivers or restored and looked like amateur restorations.  Now, partly because of "judging standards" a person feels inadequate if they don't over restore a car. 

[Jack Bennett]

1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said:

I never bought into this idea that one would buy a project car and be required to complete it. I have owned lots of them for a while, really enjoyed al the privileges of ownership, done some work, studied the history,, and eventually sold them. I would say I generally made a little money, enough to repeat the process quite a few times. I am quite sure I will buy another.

 

Never truer words spoken. The human friends I have leaned on for the past 60 years are all gone. My wife of 57 years is also gone, as is my oldest daughter. And, after a life of serving others, I believed retirement would bring the opportunity to serve my own needs for a change. 
Not so. 
Along with the freedom to choose, which came with retirement, those things to make choosing an enjoyable undertaking has also diminished in number as time passed.

Regardless of our spiritual beliefs, we still need that physical presence to serve as a tether point on which to center our lives.

In my case, while my old machines can never replace the comfort and companionship my real life friends afforded, they do do provide a material fixture, which mimics life, and serve as receptacles in which to store my anger and anxieties.

Accordingly, I equate their existence and purpose to being more like that I share with my dog than a piece of metal and rubber. 
For that reason I will never completely “finish” any of my projects because to do so would be like losing another old friend. 
Jack

[B Jake Moran]

1 hour ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

Very true on the not finishing a project. Every car has a breaking point where there is no return on investment. And what work you do while you have it. Can save the next owner some money and time. Just sold three projects, would have liked to dive into them a little more. Just made more sense to cut them loose. I look at car’s everyday. No shortage of stuff out there.

I don't know if it has been mentioned - but there a lot of "driver" class cars out there which have reasonable costs.  A few doors down on the "Not Mine" section are probably 15 cars for under $20,000, many much under, that I would love to have.  

Restoration is a fun hobby, but a person has to have delayed satisfaction and be able to envision the beautiful end.  If you run into just one of these nice drivers, then it's easy to see why the restoration hobby is much contracted. 

[demco32]

23 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

I will restate the title of this thread for those who have forgotten what it is about.

“Project” has now become nearly unaffordable to ever do”.

This appears to allude to the financial aspect of restoring a machine, perhaps neglected and broken, to some state of usability. 
Actually, it points to the fact that we, the participants in the hobby, are the only ones guilty of pricing others out of the hobby.

My meager understanding of mathematics still leads me to believe that a person selling used parts for 10 fold the “whole car” price,  computes to them making a profit equal to 90% of the actual resale value of the part.

That means that the person who needs the part for a project car can’t, or in my case, won’t, pay the ridiculous price asked for the part, and, consequently THEIR project car is neglected to the point where the engine is frozen and the bare metal left to rust……..of course, that is until they strip the bastardized car, and sell the parts from it for 10 times the “whole car” price.

The burden of keeping the hobby “affordable” rests wholly on our shoulders, and if it does become a untenable cash cow, we have only ourselves to blame.

Would you pay $925.00 for a cracked steering wheel to use on a project truck which is little more than some rusty metal and rotted wood?

How about $195.00 for a knockoff door handle for a 100 year old car, or $125.00 for the few inches in diameter escutcheon it needs to look “flashy”.

If you have, and are willing to pay $925.00 for a steering wheel which has been bought for $5.00 in a junk yard a few days before, YOU are the problem, not the greedy clown advertising the steering wheel on eBay or Amazon.

The sad thing is, that while they get their pockets lined with money from the, not too smart, wealthy, those who do participate in the hobby as therapy or a need to keep active are priced out of the hobby.

Is it immoral for someone to use the gullibility and lack of mental acuity of another to line their pockets? Not really….it’s called “enterprise” or even “entrepreneurship”.

Does it remove those who are on a limited budget, and have set aside sufficient funds to share a hobby into their infirmity, from the opportunity to lead the formidable or latter part of their lives in dignity?

The way you answer says loads about how you value the time you spent reading this.

Jack

 

Auctions that are more like a show on TV where ridiculous prices are offered do not help the hobby. Not to forget that nowadays antique cars also are bought as an investment by company's.

The internet also has skyrocketed prices because suddenly the whole world is full of potential customers looking for a certain part that is necessary to keep their antique car on the road and there are not a lot of these parts available.

I'm looking for parts for my 1932 Oldsmobile DCR and there are not many cars left so parts are difficult to find. 

 This means that some people who have parts also know this and therefore ask high prices precisely because they know that those parts are rare.

There are options; you pay the price, you refuse to pay those high prices and continue looking for that part you need with the chance that you will never find it again.

If possible, make the part yourself or repair it if you have the necessary knowledge and machines.

 

 

 

[plymouthcranbrook]

I can safely say rich people have not ruined my hobby. I don’t have high end cars( Plymouth’s 1952 and 1980) that I bought for what have turned out to be modest prices( ok, I did overpay for my 52 In retrospect but it has worked out well after I found out all the work previously done in it).I have faint hopes that inflation will cause the values to stay somewhere near my investment.  Currently about $5000-$6000 per car. I like driving them and as long as they are presentable to me( I come from that era where driving shabby looking junk is somewhat embarrassing) I am happy.  I did give up on the idea of getting the interior on the 52 redone. For me the cost of professional help would probably be the value if the car. And the 1980 car is a survivor that I bought with 8400 miles on it in 2007.  Once again it seems you can get out of old cars what you want depending on you.

[Jack Bennett]

“Old” is a transitory term when used with “antique”, “classic”, “collectible”, “rare” and simply “old” in any sentence which connects something to its owner.

Regarding “old” cars and their usually “old” car owners.

Most “old” car parts have been bought, traded, coveted and, sometimes, hoarded by their “old” owners. And, it is not unreasonable to think that a 90 year old transmission may have been bought, traded, and/or sold, several times during its long tenure in the automotive world.
Common sense dictates that any person in possession of a car 50+ years old, very probably, or at least reasonably possibly, obtained the car as part of a collection, and probably intended to restore it.

But, as it is expected that the “old” car eventually be relegated to that great junk yard in the sky, so can it be expected that it’s “old” owner will eventually follow.

On to the exorbitant expense of trying to acquire one of the “old” car parts which has been an integral part of a “old” person’s life for the past half century. Well, it has more to do with ignorance than it does interest.

Most probably the last part you bought for your prized Hupmobile passed through at least one estate sale and then passed through a gathering of folks at a place like Hershey.

The “old” guy, to whom the part originally belonged to, and it was the only mechanism needed to meet, and talk to, people who shared their interest in “old” cars is now among the billions of  cars which were not “saved” and now rests in the forever after.

Instead it is the person who was voted “most likely to succeed” by the high school class graduating in 2010  who has the part offered for sale.

And the only prospective buyer is the “old” guy who has “lots of money, and hardly no brains”. And the part ( whatever it is) is now a “rare”, “antique”, “classic”, and, at least a good reproduction, of something “old”…….and that makes it valuable.

And that is all that matters…….period.

Before the internet, before eBay, Craigslist and FEDEX next day shipping and before morals was something taught as something which is better left at home by the seller, it would have been “I need a ring gear, and I have this hub you need……let’s swap and share some gab”. 
Now it is “free shipping on purchases over $100.00 but no returns”………….and to h*ll with the gab”.

Sad!

Jack

[Jack Bennett]

1 hour ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

I can safely say rich people have not ruined my hobby. I don’t have high end cars( Plymouth’s 1952 and 1980) that I bought for what have turned out to be modest prices( ok, I did overpay for my 52 In retrospect but it has worked out well after I found out all the work previously done in it).I have faint hopes that inflation will cause the values to stay somewhere near my investment.  Currently about $5000-$6000 per car. I like driving them and as long as they are presentable to me( I come from that era where driving shabby looking junk is somewhat embarrassing) I am happy.  I did give up on the idea of getting the interior on the 52 redone. For me the cost of professional help would probably be the value if the car. And the 1980 car is a survivor that I bought with 8400 miles on it in 2007.  Once again it seems you can get out of old cars what you want depending on you.

Hi plymouthcranbrook……. it is really strange that you chose the interior of your 52 Plymouth as topic for this discussion. I recently relocated my 1951 Plymouth Cambridge to its new parking space while I work on the old panel truck.

The strange part of this communication is that I do have all the material necessary to complete the interior of the Plymouth. And I have nearly completed installation of its new headliner. But, finishing the interior of the car has been put on hold until I finish the chassis, and get the engine of the panel running. For some reason, when I finished the mechanics and electrics on the Plymouth, and it became drivable, a new project just seemed to dominate the horizon.

Maybe it is the nature of the beast, and the owners handbook of the Plymouth cars should be changed to include the probability that it will have to survive with partially completed upholstery.

Jack

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

3 hours ago, B Jake Moran said:

But Ben, 

 

I am 60 and I remember getting cheap parts out of salvage yards years ago.  Part of the issue is the standard has changed.  My cars were drivers or restored and looked like amateur restorations.  Now, partly because of "judging standards" a person feels inadequate if they don't over restore a car. 

 

  Inadequate?    Not me. And I will park next to whatever is there.   Different strokes?

  Drove mine to Spokane [and farther west] this summer. Had a blast.

 

  You "ain't" old. I have three kids that old or older.😁

 

  Ben

 

  

[John Kelso]

Removed this T truck from and old garage 2 weeks ago, my friend just got it running,  Not much monetary value but what fun getting them driving again, the roadster was inside.